[nycdunz]

i plan on buying a dual 2'7ghz g5 with a 30" cinema...

the ati 9650 is able to drive that right? but can i run dual displays or no?

Also what is the life expectancy on the 30" cinema? How long can I expect it to last on average use? I am a graphic designer, and I use my computer quite often... I just want to know if it will be worth $3000 for that display.

[AssassyN]

You can run dual displays w/ that video card.

Honestly, the 30" would last you many years, but it's not worth it in the least. You can get a STELLAR looking/quality Dell 24" widescreen LCD for ~$1,000 after coupons, so get two of those and you have an insane amount of screen real estate and $1,000 leftover for whatever.

Don't let style waste your money. Plus, that new Dell LCD looks mighty sharp; very clean lines and not tacky. The 30" LCD is a bragging right and esentially nothing more; it's not worth the money when you get dual 24" LCDs for 2/3s of the price.

[reader50]

The 9650 can drive dual displays, but it can only drive one 30" display. The other display port is not a DDL port, it is limited to a max resolution of 1920x1200. So you can drive two 23" displays, or one 23" + one 30", or any smaller combinations. If you need to drive two 30" displays, you would need one of the GeForce 6800 cards with dual DDL ports.

The 30" has not been around that long. There is no way to estimate it's lifespan at this time, there is no failure data to speak of yet.

[Link]

LCD backlights *usually* last quite a while, what does happen though is they go dimmer, but I very rarely hear of backlight tubes going out...

*sigh* at the absolute worst, it's about $40 for a new set of tubes, and maybe about $250 to have someone replace them for you.

[OreoCookie]

My best German friend here used to work with a 22" Cinema Display of the first generation and it still worked beautifully. But he exchanged it ... for a 23" Cinema Display (last generation with plastic case), that bastard (his father got the 30", go figure ).

BTW, if you buy AppleCare with your Mac, it automatically extends to your display! This only works if you buy them together, though.

[nycdunz]

so once the tubes die out i can get em replaced and it'll be as good as new again?

[OreoCookie]

No, the display never broke in his case.

Although when LCDs age (same for CRTs, obviously), they get darker with time. Quality displays may live very long (e. g. the trusty old Formac ProNitron 500 (19" CRT) my parents still use is from around 98 and still works perfectly).

Nowadays, repairs of displays that are beyond warranty are usually too expensive ... If you are a professional user, then it's not a toy, you should make your decision based on whether or not you need it.

[Link]

Cinema displays are expensive enough (a 1999 model still sells for $700+, like the ADC ones!), that it's worth replacing the backlights if they ever need it.. IMHO all the speculation is kinda... moot because LCD backlights really do last a while, though I hear of cases where they've been known to go out quick (kinda like HDs), in that case you might find applecare useful since you get a whole 3 years to cover defects, and if you complain about an uneven backlight you could *cough* extend the life lol.

I have a laptop from 1992-3ish, it still has it's original screen and everything, though after a few drops (I was 10 when I got it), and after a few years the case wore out, hinge caused some problems with the power wire, and from time to time the actual backlight being on would go quirky *shrug* .. either way I gave that thing a bit of usage and it used to belong to a college student before we bought it, so yeah.. they do have longevity.

Otherwise, you are going into graphics, and considering it, I really don't think I'd spend more than 2k on a monitor that HAD to be color accurate, dunno. To say the least, you are considering the 30" because it's the biggest, and one of the baddest displays on the block (and by that I mean one of the coolest), I can't say it's "sexy", but it's definitely a nice looking monitor... surely bragging rights in there! I know the 22" I currently have being the biggest actual computer monitor I'd seen at the time (besides a plasma TV being used as a monitor inappropriately), definitely drove me into the direction of getting one..

I'd expect it to have a working lifetime at least as long as a typic mac's working lifetime -- 3-5 years, no guarantees, but history would *tend* to seem that would be the case. Any more than 5 years, and JUST like a CRT it'll still be very usable, but you probably won't want it as your primary monitor anymore, by then there will be far brighter things, far more responsive things, and monitors witha much higher DPI I'm sure.

Yet again, natural 'computer tech evolution' brings up whether or not you should spend $3k on something that'll probably be your main display for 3-5 years depending on how quickly you want to get rid of it, but I'm sure you can come up with that answer on your own. Whatever you choose, whether it be a 20", 23", or 30", will be awesome -- we have a 22" and a 23" here, and despite there being definite differences between the two, they're still very awesome displays, so I can vouch for this one Right now I'm comparing a 17" laptop to a 15" one, I really do like features and all of that of both, but then there's about a $300 price difference (or more depending on where I buy it from), and as much as I'd love the bigger screen, $300 is $300! Hehe, for some reason big desktop screens are more fun to shop for!

[OreoCookie]

Good points, but even in 3 years, I don't see my desk getting any bigger ...

[Link]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Good points, but even in 3 years, I don't see my desk getting any bigger ...

As long as it doesn't have a hutch you can probably fit any size monitor on it.. problem with a hutch is almost no widescreen will actually fit in it.. after I got my 22" I realized this, and frankly was fine with that.. those things are so mid 1990s lol. Tables have this nice thing about looking all neat, plus you can do different things all the time but that's personal opinion!

I dunno if I'd want a wider screen though, I already find it.. well, a bit alienating to be sitting in front of a big widescreen, you feel like you're surrounded by it sometimes, whereas with a nice little 17" or something, you feel more like you're sitting at your nice little table environment enjoying life (and maybe a coffee or some juice or something), and goofing off at the comp.

[tomhayes]

Get the 30". Its much better than the Apple 23" and the Dell 24" is about the same as the Apple.

I've had the 30" for a few months now and I LOVE it.

My PC has a 19" and it's pathetically small in comparison.

The 30" seems BIG at first but now it seems like the right size. You'll just think other monitors are small.

[tomhayes]

Get the 30". Its much better than the Apple 23" and the Dell 24" is about the same as the Apple.

I've had the 30" for a few months now and I LOVE it.

My PC has a 19" and it's pathetically small in comparison.

The 30" seems BIG at first but now it seems like the right size. You'll just think other monitors are small.

[jasonsRX7]

Originally Posted by AssassyN

Honestly, the 30" would last you many years, but it's not worth it in the least. more; it's not worth the money when you get dual 24" LCDs for 2/3s of the price.

I'm sure the Dell is a great monitor, especially for the price. But if price isn't the determining factor, then the question is do you want the cheaper monitor or the better monitor. Because price aside, the 30" is unquestionably the better monitor. It may not be a better all in one, multi input, USB hub and KVM, but it is the better monitor.

Originally Posted by AssassyN

Don't let style waste your money.

That depends of if you consider style to be a waste of money. I don't.

[Andy8]

Can the 24" Dell's be wall mounted like the ACD's can? This would be an issue for me if space was limited. Hanging them on the wall in front of you, saves a stack of desk space.

So would 2x 23" ACD be better than 1 x 30" ACD ?

[Link]

You bet, any monitor with a vesa mount can be wall mounted. Problem is, it's the most inconvenient method if you like moving things around.

[Cadaver]

The 30" is a sick, huge monitor; far too big for mortal man.

With that said, I love mine. I had to make a Keynote presentation last week, and I was using pieces from two others plus a folder full of pictures. I was able to have everything on screen at the same time. Simply amazing.

[Rev-O]

Originally Posted by AssassyN

The 30" LCD is a bragging right and esentially nothing more

You are right. And I have one and you don't. So nyah nyah nyah!

[AssassyN]

Originally Posted by jasonsRX7

I'm sure the Dell is a great monitor, especially for the price. But if price isn't the determining factor, then the question is do you want the cheaper monitor or the better monitor. Because price aside, the 30" is unquestionably the better monitor. It may not be a better all in one, multi input, USB hub and KVM, but it is the better monitor.

That depends of if you consider style to be a waste of money. I don't.

Are you trying to make yourself look idiotic?

You just pointed out that the Apple monitor does absolutely NOTHING aside from be a monitor; it has a single DVI port (it can't even take VGA). The Dell will accept DVI, VGA, S-Video, composite video (great for console systems), USB, etc. *and* it's an astounding monitor.

You guys are on crack if you think the Apple & Dell monitors are *really* that much different from each other. The outer casing of the Apple looks better, the port selection of the Dell is better, but when it all comes down to it, the actual LCD screen in each of them are mass-produced and purchased in bulk from what is likely to be the exact same manufacturer (Samsung, Hitachi, LG, etc.) So in essence you're getting nearly the same screen. And oh yeah, if you game at all, the Dell's refresh rate is a tad better I believe.

Look, I owned a 23" ACD Apple Cinema, and while it impressed people, it wasn't worth it. If the Apple's were similarly priced maybe they'd be worth it, to me.

Originally Posted by Rev-O

You are right. And I have one and you don't. So nyah nyah nyah!

And I have $2,000 in the bank instead of in a screen.

[jasonsRX7]

Originally Posted by AssassyN

Are you trying to make yourself look idiotic?

Lighten up

Originally Posted by AssassyN

You just pointed out that the Apple monitor does absolutely NOTHING aside from be a monitor; it has a single DVI port (it can't even take VGA). The Dell will accept DVI, VGA, S-Video, composite video (great for console systems), USB, etc. *and* it's an astounding monitor.

Which is great if those features are important to you. If they're not, then they won't factor in to your buying decision, and the monitor will have to stand on its merits of being *just* a monitor.

Originally Posted by AssassyN

You guys are on crack if you think the Apple & Dell monitors are *really* that much different from each other. The outer casing of the Apple looks better, the port selection of the Dell is better, but when it all comes down to it, the actual LCD screen in each of them are mass-produced and purchased in bulk from what is likely to be the exact same manufacturer (Samsung, Hitachi, LG, etc.) So in essence you're getting nearly the same screen. And oh yeah, if you game at all, the Dell's refresh rate is a tad better I believe.

I'd agree with you if we were talking about the Apple 20" vs the Dell 20", but this conversation is about the 30" Cinema, which you put up against 24" Dell in your first post. I'm not saying the Dell monitors aren't good; I've even recommended the 20" Dell to a few people. The 30" Cinema has a much higher resolution, and even if you got dual 24" Dells, the Cinema would still have a higher vertical resolution. So yes, even though I'm not on crack I do think there are big differences between a 30" monitor with 2560x1600 resolution and a 24" monitor with 1920x1200 resolution.

Originally Posted by AssassyN

And I have $2,000 in the bank instead of in a screen.

The cost might not be as big of a deal to others as it is to you.

[AssassyN]

Originally Posted by nycdunz

i... I just want to know if it will be worth $3000 for that display.

Obviously, cost *is* a concern. And functionality SHOULD be taken into consideration when purchasing something, and the 30"s lack of functionality should be considered. Dell's 24" LCDs can be titled if you prefer higher vertical resolution.

Look, the 30" is awesome, but there is no way you can convince me it's worth the pricetag.

[redoid]

I love my 30". Cost was not an issue for me and i felt in love with it when i first saw it.

Each to their own I think.

[osxisfun]

Originally Posted by AssassyN

Obviously, cost *is* a concern. And functionality SHOULD be taken into consideration when purchasing something, and the 30"s lack of functionality should be considered. Dell's 24" LCDs can be titled if you prefer higher vertical resolution.

Look, the 30" is awesome, but there is no way you can convince me it's worth the pricetag.

oh its easiliy worth the price tag. remember the first 22"?? it was $4000 i think.

If you own your own business then the price of the machine means less as it might be a tax write off.

If its just for personal use then the price is prob tooo high for most. But as a business tool. No problem if you make money with your mac.

[Link]

dell's 24" competes with apple's 23" -- the only monitor that even remotely competes with apple's 30"er is IBM's 22"er, and it costs more than twice as much.

[osxisfun]

and as anyone who has seen both can see. there is a world of difference in screen size between the 2. that extra screen price is what you are paying for. If you are a professional that makes money with their mac then its worth it.

its also nice to know you have the option if you win the lottery..

[jasonsRX7]

Originally Posted by osxisfun

oh its easiliy worth the price tag. remember the first 22"?? it was $4000 i think.

Haha yeah... I think I paid $2200 for my original 22" with the Dr. Botts adapter, which at the time was a good bargain. When the 30" was announced, I remember thinking "$3000 for a 30" monitor? What a great deal!"

If this thread would have been about paying $3000 for an HDTV, no one would have flinched. But since it's about a monitor, people think it's a bigger deal. I've got a friend who's got over $11k in home theater equipment but cringed at the idea of paying $500 for a Mac mini to edit home movies of his kids. It just comes down to what's important to you.

[osxisfun]

If this thread would have been about paying $3000 for an HDTV, no one would have flinched. But since it's about a monitor, people think it's a bigger deal. I've got a friend who's got over $11k in home theater equipment but cringed at the idea of paying $500 for a Mac mini to edit home movies of his kids. It just comes down to what's important to you.

well put.

[Cadaver]

I paid $2600 for my 30" display. I have no need for s-video or composite inputs on it - I'm not connecting it to anything else other than my G5... no XBox, no PlayStation, no VCR, no PC (not that I have a video card for my PC that could drive it, anyway). And I cringe at the thought of trying to force 4,096,000 pixels through an analog VGA connection anyway, so VGA is not even worth thinking about on something of this size.

And for me, it is definitely worth the price. Hell, I paid the same amount a few years ago for the original 22" Cinema display. And that was also an awesome display when first released, too.

I do a lot of medical graphics, PowerPoint/Keynote and writing. And while I made a real attempt at using two Dell 2001FP displays (1600x1200 each) on my machine, I just found the seam down the middle too bothersome. Its really annoying when you've got a large image/document and you've got a 1" gap in the image. And no matter how much an LCD is calibrated, its almost impossible to get two to look exactly the same.

Moving to a 1920x1600 display (i.e., Apple 23" or Dell 24") just wouldn't give me enough space to justify its replacing two 20" 4:3 displays (3200x1600 total pixels). And again, two 23"/24" would give me another seam. So, 30" it was. At least I've got the option - if I were using a PC, it would likely cost me much more to get a capable video card (for once, something is cheaper on the Mac!).

And while it may anger you, some people make enough money and aren't bothered by the near-$3K price tag. $6500 in Apple equipment (G5 + 30" display + X800XT) doesn't impact my bottom line.

[Rev-O]

Originally Posted by AssassyN

Obviously, cost *is* a concern. And functionality SHOULD be taken into consideration when purchasing something, and the 30"s lack of functionality should be considered. Dell's 24" LCDs can be titled if you prefer higher vertical resolution.

Look, the 30" is awesome, but there is no way you can convince me it's worth the pricetag.

I don't think anyone here really cares to convince you. Do I think the 30" display is expensive? Damn right it is, even more so after I had to buy a $600 video card to run it. And you know what? I absolutely love my huge-ass display.
Love it love it love it.
I'm giving it a hug right now, I love it so much.

[osxisfun]

Hug it for me too!

I bought a BTO PB 15" 128vram just in case I decide to buy a 30" later this year.

[k2director]

Question for you lucky 30" owners:

I keep going to the Apple store and trying to get a sense of how it would be to work with the 30. It seems really big, and I'm wondering: 1) did you feel initial awkwardness in looking from side to side so much, and 2) Even now, are there times when it's awkward to look to, say, the far upper right or left corner?

I have 2 23"s right now, and love em. I use one 23 for major tasks, and then have iCal, iTunes and iChat open on the second display (so I can quickly glance at them without Expose or window switching, etc), and also use it for playing DVDs as I work, or accomodating extra web pages, etc. when needed. If I got a 30", I would still probably stick with a secondary 23" of some kind (or another 30) because I love having a second monitor with core apps always available...

[jasonsRX7]

Originally Posted by k2director

1) did you feel initial awkwardness in looking from side to side so much

Yes. I did, anyway. Almost to the point that I was considering returning it. For the first few hours, I thought it was just too big and that mousing around the screen was too much effort. Then I moved it back about 6 inches further than my 22" used to be, and it made a world of difference. That helped a lot with the looking side to side. By the next day, I was adjusted and now it feels cramped working on anything smaller.

Originally Posted by k2director

2) Even now, are there times when it's awkward to look to, say, the far upper right or left corner?

Not anymore. Sometimes I'll drag pallets toward the center of the screen so I don't have to mouse so far over, but that's about it.

Originally Posted by k2director

I have 2 23"s right now, and love em.

If you have dual monitors side by side, you're already used to having to look far left and right. Going to a 30" should be pretty easy.

[funkysmurf]

Hi,

I'm in a similar situation. Don't mean to hijack the thread so if the OP doesn't mind I'd like to ask some questions too. PM me otherwise and I'll delete this.

I'm using my mac as a TV, stereo, DVD all-in-one kind of thing so when I'm not doing computing stuff it's used for that. It's on 24/7. For those who have used the 30" display...how is dvd playback? Are there any problems during fast paced action scenes etc. ? What about watching tv...would it be any worse on this display as opposed to my 20.1" lcd? I'm using EyeTv for this.

Thanks

[Rev-O]

Originally Posted by k2director

Question for you lucky 30" owners:

I keep going to the Apple store and trying to get a sense of how it would be to work with the 30. It seems really big, and I'm wondering: 1) did you feel initial awkwardness in looking from side to side so much, and 2) Even now, are there times when it's awkward to look to, say, the far upper right or left corner?

I have 2 23"s right now, and love em. I use one 23 for major tasks, and then have iCal, iTunes and iChat open on the second display (so I can quickly glance at them without Expose or window switching, etc), and also use it for playing DVDs as I work, or accomodating extra web pages, etc. when needed. If I got a 30", I would still probably stick with a secondary 23" of some kind (or another 30) because I love having a second monitor with core apps always available...

Nice thing about the 30" is it doesn't take up a bunch of desk real estate, yet has gobs of screen real estate. The 30" doesn't require a bunch more room than the 23" ADC display it replaced.
Initially, I lost the cursor all the time on the damn thing. And looking from bottom left to upper right corners felt like I was watching tennis. I used PinPoint for a while to locate my wayward cursor, but I've gotten accustomed to the display and don't have this issue so much any more (and found that a ctrl + click works better anyways).

[k2director]

Thanks for the feedback on getting adjusted to the 30's size. I had a feeling that it's something one gets used to, even if it feels awkward at first. Having two 23"s felt the same way for a day or so, but then felt great.

I have a feeling there's a 30" in my future, right around the time Apple brings out its next PowerMac model....

[Cadaver]

Originally Posted by k2director

Question for you lucky 30" owners:

I keep going to the Apple store and trying to get a sense of how it would be to work with the 30. It seems really big, and I'm wondering: 1) did you feel initial awkwardness in looking from side to side so much, and 2) Even now, are there times when it's awkward to look to, say, the far upper right or left corner?

I have 2 23"s right now, and love em. I use one 23 for major tasks, and then have iCal, iTunes and iChat open on the second display (so I can quickly glance at them without Expose or window switching, etc), and also use it for playing DVDs as I work, or accomodating extra web pages, etc. when needed. If I got a 30", I would still probably stick with a secondary 23" of some kind (or another 30) because I love having a second monitor with core apps always available...

I held off a long time on buying a 30" just for that reason... I thought it would be too big. Big to the point of being uncomfortable. But it's not really like that. I feels there's less mousing and head turning than there was with two 20" monitors.

And its really easy to get spoiled by all the real-estate. Yesterday, while doing some work for a lecture I had to give, I had a PDF, a Keynote presentation and a PowerPoint presentation all open and at nice sizes. all visible at the same time. Cut my work time down significantly by being able to see the PDF article and my old PowerPoint file at the same time while working on the new Keynote talk. Just great.

[osxisfun]

> Cut my work time down significantly by being able to see the PDF ar

and that's why its worth it. some of us live under the old axiom time is money. Spending 3k on a monitor will end up saving you money over the life of the product.

[loki74]

Originally Posted by AssassyN

You can run dual displays w/ that video card.

Honestly, the 30" would last you many years, but it's not worth it in the least. You can get a STELLAR looking/quality Dell 24" widescreen LCD for ~$1,000 after coupons, so get two of those and you have an insane amount of screen real estate and $1,000 leftover for whatever.

Don't let style waste your money. Plus, that new Dell LCD looks mighty sharp; very clean lines and not tacky. The 30" LCD is a bragging right and esentially nothing more; it's not worth the money when you get dual 24" LCDs for 2/3s of the price.

A big problem with getting dual monitors is that it is very poor visually, expecially for someone doing design. Doing that would follow neither the 4:3 aspect ratio, or the more desireable easier to look at 16:9 aspect ratio. And no matter how thin you get that bezel, it will always be there.

I currently use a Sony SDM-P234. Its 24" and it works great for 3d anination, vector/raster graphics, web design, and all the usual web and email whatnot. To be absolutely honest, using it has improved my posture when sitting down using the computer. I used to lean towards the screen with my neck on the normal XGA. I think that from an economic standpoint, 30" is not overly necessary.

That is not to say, however, that it is only a bragging right. Especially when making graphics for print, massive amounts of screen resolution are required, and if you want to save yourself the trouble of constantly zooming etc the 30 inch is by all means plausible.

If youre a professional, and it sounds like you are, then go ahead and get it. For amatuers and dabblers though, it is indeed, just a bragging right. And one with a pretty big price tag too.

[Link]

Neat, a sony 23" -- I haven't seen those on the market ina while, they were cool

Not much more to mirror -- I'd rather have one big screen than two small ones, 'specially the way OS X is with the menu bar lol.. either you're gonna be shuffling windows or having to switch between the two screens constantly when you need to switch your focus over to something that's on the second screen and happens to use the menu a lot. Wish it'd follow you across ....

[redoid]

just get over it and get one like we just did