[Eug Wanker]

Aluminum enclosure with rear screen hinge
1.13 GHz G4 MPC7457 (EDIT: I now say 1.25 GHz)
512 KB L2 cache
1024 KB DDR L3 cache
167 MHz bus
ATI Radeon 9200 Mobility with 64 MB DDR
512 MB PC2700 DDR SDRAM
15.4" 1280x800 16:10 widescreen
60 GB 4200 rpm ATA 100 hard drive
Firewire 400
Firewire 800
USB 2
1X slot-load SuperDrive
Glowing keyboard
Airport Extreme
BlueTooth
Gigabit Ethernet
DVI-I
PCMCIA
56 Kbps Modem
50-55 Watt Li battery
5 1/2 lbs

Announced in July-August, $2599.

12" & 17" AluBook will be announced at the same time, with:

17"
1.25 GHz G4 7457
167 MHz bus
ATI Radeon 9200 Mobility with 64 MB DDR
USB 2
$3199

12"
1.0 GHz G4 7457
133 MHz bus
Geforce4 420 Go with 32 MB DDR
$1499-1699

[Michel_80]

Radeon 9200? I have never heard of them before...

[slow moe]

How much heat difference would that 1.0 GHz G4 7457 make compared to the current 867 MHz G4 in the 12" PB?

[Alpha-sphere]

Originally posted by Michel_80:
Radeon 9200? I have never heard of them before...

The windows notebooks are starting to ship with radeon 9200 right about now so it does exist.

I think there's gonna be a pricedrop of $100 on all the PB's

[Eug Wanker]

Radeon 9200? I have never heard of them before...

ATI Mobility Radeon 9200. Not as fast as the 9600, but the 9600 would be $$$ and severely handicapped by the slow 1.25 GHz G4 processor anyway.

How much heat difference would that 1.0 GHz G4 7457 make compared to the current 867 MHz G4 in the 12" PB?

I don't know, but:

1.0 GHz G4 7455 = 15 W typical
1.3 GHz G4 7457 = 16.6 W typical

My guess is the wattage would be very similar between an 867 MHz 7455 and a 1.0 GHz 7457. And fortunately, a 1.0 GHz 7457 will be faster than a 1.0 GHz 7455, because of a larger L2 cache. The 867 still won't have an L3 cache though I'd wager.

I think there's gonna be a pricedrop of $100 on all the PB's

I agreed with you, except for the 15". There's a lot of new stuff, and there will be a lot of pent up demand for it.

[scottiB]

Doesn't the 7457 use a 200mhz bus? Or are you saying that the 167 and 133 will be double-pumped?

http://www.theregister.com/content/39/31424.html

[ae86_16v]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
ATI Mobility Radeon 9200. Not as fast as the 9600, but the 9600 would be $$$ and severely handicapped by the slow 1.25 GHz G4 processor anyway.

The 9600 is only a mid-line model anyways. I saw it at the store, it is not too expensive $199, if I remember correctly.

Correction: Apparently they don't make the 9800 for the Mobile yet.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by scottiB:
Doesn't the 7457 use a 200mhz bus? Or are you saying that the 167 and 133 will be double-pumped?

http://www.theregister.com/content/39/31424.html

It can use the 200 MHz bus, but it doesn't have to.

More importantly, you can't easily get PC3200 (200 MHz) laptop RAM. PC2700 (167 MHz) is common however.

Unfortunately, the 7457 is not capable of using a double-pumped bus. The 7457-RM would be, but it won't be coming out any time soon AFAIK.

The 9600 is only a mid-line model anyways. I saw it at the store, it is not too expensive $199, if I remember correctly.

I suppose they could add it if they wanted to make the thing look better on paper. However, I'd guess they'd avoid using it for cost reasons, since it probably wouldn't add a huge real world benefit.

[acadian]

It'll be a 980 before it hits the powerbook.

[Sakino]

I would think the 15, and 17 would have the same processor speeds. I sure the hell hope apple gets the updating going soon. I been waiting since Dec. 02 to buy a laptop. I wasnt going to buy a 15 inch ti book if apple was goign to update it with all the goodies. The 15 inch is long over do for an update, apple needs to update this product asap. If its not done before school, I will have to resort to buying a laptop that runs win xp.

[y2kerr]

Originally posted by Sakino:
I would think the 15, and 17 would have the same processor speeds. I sure the hell hope apple gets the updating going soon. I been waiting since Dec. 02 to buy a laptop. I wasnt going to buy a 15 inch ti book if apple was goign to update it with all the goodies. The 15 inch is long over do for an update, apple needs to update this product asap. If its not done before school, I will have to resort to buying a laptop that runs win xp.

I'm in the same boat as you -- I need a laptop before September.

So if Apple doesn't update the PB 15" before September, can anyone recommend a good Windows laptop?

I know this will likely enrage a few people around here, but I'm serious! Besides, I'm only a potential switcher -- I've used Windows computers all my life. If I don't get a Mac I won't know what I'm missing. I'll wonder what I'm missing, but Apple isn't giving me a lot of choice. Oh well. At least I'll be able to play Half Life 2!

[Eug Wanker]

I would think the 15, and 17 would have the same processor speeds

Hmmm... My math was a bit wonky.

1.13 GHz doesn't work nicely on a 167 MHz bus. 1.13 GHz would be for a 133 MHz bus.

So it's either 1.08 GHz, 1.17 GHz, or 1.25 GHz.

So I revise the speed for the 15" to 1.25 GHz, same as my prediction for the 17".

[ae86_16v]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Hmmm... My math was a bit wonky.

1.13 GHz doesn't work nicely on a 167 MHz bus. 1.13 GHz would be for a 133 MHz bus.

So it's either 1.08 GHz, 1.17 GHz, or 1.25 GHz.

So I revise the speed for the 15" to 1.25 GHz, same as my prediction for the 17".

How do you figure? I would like to know.

[RealMadrid]

Seems as if some of the actual models are delayed up to 5 days in the AppleStore. �?

[PBAddict]

Originally posted by RealMadrid:
Seems as if some of the actual models are delayed up to 5 days in the AppleStore. �?

Just looked at US Applestore only model on a 3-5 day delivery is 12"Combo, all other Powerbooks are 1-2 days. Given only one model has a lond==ger delivery, I don't think this is significant.

[Alpha-sphere]

Originally posted by ae86_16v:
The 9600 is only a mid-line model anyways. I saw it at the store, it is not too expensive $199, if I remember correctly.

Correction: Apparently they don't make the 9800 for the Mobile yet.

The 9600 is a mid-line model for desktop computers but not for laptops. It's the best you can get for a laptop and laptopmodels tend to be more expensive then desktop models. I don't thing the 9800 is comming to the laptop anytime soon. That thing has a powerplug like the harddrives and optical drive! It a powerhungry monster!

[Eug]

Originally posted by ae86_16v:
How do you figure? I would like to know.

If you're talking speeds:

6.0 x 166.67 = 1000 MHz (old 17" PowerBook)
6.5 x 166.67 = 1083 MHz
7.0 x 166.67 = 1167 MHz
7.5 x 166.67 = 1250 MHz (Power Mac G4)
8.0 x 166.67 = 1333 MHz
8.5 x 166.67 = 1417 MHz (Power Mac G4)

6.5 x 133.33 = 867 MHz (15" TiBook, old 12" PowerBook)
7.0 x 133.33 = 933 MHz
7.5 x 133.33 = 1000 MHz (15" TiBook)
8.0 x 133.33 = 1067 MHz
8.5 x 133.33 = 1133 MHz
9.0 x 133.33 = 1200 MHz
9.5 x 133.33 = 1267 MHz

[spotze23]

does anyone at apple read this endless pb ai 15 posts? perhaps they should...

[daniel999]

I rekon new PB will come out soon after Panther is released

[urrl5201]

I also think 1.25 Ghz and no Radeon. They will stay with nVidia.
1.25 because they know they are ridiculously behind in the Ghz dept. and will eventually go to G5 CPU anyway.

[euphras]

OFF TOPIC: Is Eug wanker the new alter ego of Eug??!?

[ae86_16v]

Originally posted by Eug:
If you're talking speeds:

6.0 x 166.67 = 1000 MHz (old 17" PowerBook)
6.5 x 166.67 = 1083 MHz
7.0 x 166.67 = 1167 MHz
7.5 x 166.67 = 1250 MHz (Power Mac G4)
8.0 x 166.67 = 1333 MHz
8.5 x 166.67 = 1417 MHz (Power Mac G4)

6.5 x 133.33 = 867 MHz (15" TiBook, old 12" PowerBook)
7.0 x 133.33 = 933 MHz
7.5 x 133.33 = 1000 MHz (15" TiBook)
8.0 x 133.33 = 1067 MHz
8.5 x 133.33 = 1133 MHz
9.0 x 133.33 = 1200 MHz
9.5 x 133.33 = 1267 MHz

Okay, the second numbers are Bus Speeds, what are the first? Or are you just multiplying it by a arbitrary number?

Sorry, I just want to know.

[clf8]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
12"
1.0 GHz G4 7457
133 MHz bus
Geforce4 420 Go with 32 MB DDR
$1499-1699

My 2cents on the 12" Powerbook is that it's one of Apple's standard "crippling" to not destroy 15" sales. I think when you see all three in Aluminum, you'll see 2 speeds (1GHz and 1.25GHz or something like that). Ideally, the 12" would get the L3 cache and the nicer video card to bring it fully up to par with it's brothers.

The only reason you might not see this is just to keep prices down on the 12" (or to boost margins). Who knows, it's Apple. Update the d@mn 15" so I can replace my iBook 466 please, the 800x600 screen is killing me (and my lowly 20gig drive is full of mp3s).

[Eug Wanker]

Okay, the second numbers are Bus Speeds, what are the first? Or are you just multiplying it by a arbitrary number?

It's the multiplier, which is usually a round integer, or else an integer and a half. (eg. 7 or 7.5 or whatever)

Is Eug wanker the new alter ego of Eug??!?

Yep, it's me. It's gratifying to be so recognized... Sniff...

[BrunoBruin]

Originally posted by daniel999:
I rekon new PB will come out soon after Panther is released

No, it will come out just long enough BEFORE Panther is released that Apple will feel justified in making everyone who bought one pony up another $129 for Panther. Like the G5s.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by BrunoBruin:
No, it will come out just long enough BEFORE Panther is released that Apple will feel justified in making everyone who bought one pony up another $129 for Panther. Like the G5s.

Well, it's still better for Apple's bottom line and its salivating customers if it's sooner rather than later for the new PowerBook, regardless if Panther ships soon after/before or not.

[gorgonzola]

I've been waiting for one of these too, but it is possible that Apple will push back the release of any new PowerBooks in order to concentrate attention on the recently-announced G5. Although MWNY would be the logical place to announce revised PowerBooks (Lord knows it's been long enough), I'm still somewhat skeptical because the presentation is being given by Greg Joswiak, who -- although he's the VP of HW Product Marketing -- is a lower-level guy at Apple and probably would not be assigned the responsibility of introducing new PowerBooks.

I dunno. I really hope they release them, but it seems somewhat questionable. Your predicted specs seem pretty reasonable though.

[forcelite]

"The windows notebooks are starting to ship with radeon 9200 right about now so it does exist.

I think there's gonna be a pricedrop of $100 on all the PB's"

noy likely cause they just droped not to long ago
FOrce

[ae86_16v]

Originally posted by gorgonzola:
Although MWNY would be the logical place to announce revised PowerBooks (Lord knows it's been long enough), I'm still somewhat skeptical because the presentation is being given by Greg Joswiak, who -- although he's the VP of HW Product Marketing -- is a lower-level guy at Apple and probably would not be assigned the responsibility of introducing new PowerBooks.

I don't know about that. VP is a pretty high level already. Plus another thing is that he was the one that offered a response to people saying that the Benchmarks were fake (G5). Being a spokesperson is a pretty important job, especially at that.

It should be interesting either way. I am really hoping for you. I need a new 15".

[neutrino23]

Who knows how Apple will announce this? The last change to the 15" PB came as a silent upgrade which just suddenly appeared on the web site.

[Alpha-sphere]

Originally posted by neutrino23:
Who knows how Apple will announce this? The last change to the 15" PB came as a silent upgrade which just suddenly appeared on the web site.

I don't think the new 15" is just going to be an upgrade. It's a completely new 15" with allu is stead of titanium and lots of changes internally. Apple can't just let that go buy without some announcement

[BrunoBruin]

Originally posted by Alpha-sphere:
I don't think the new 15" is just going to be an upgrade. It's a completely new 15" with allu is stead of titanium and lots of changes internally. Apple can't just let that go buy without some announcement

If the new 15 is still a G4 and the only feature changes are to bring it in line with the 12 and 17, they can announce by press release. That's all they did for the 1GHz SuperDrive revision.

Frankly, I think this will be a quiet update DELIBERATELY, because Apple knows the obvious question will be, why isn't it a G5?

My money is on Joswiak announcing at MWNY, I mean MWCP. He has to talk about SOMETHING.

[escher]

Originally posted by BrunoBruin:
My money is on Joswiak announcing at MWNY, I mean MWCP. He has to talk about SOMETHING.

Jobs' lackeys never announce anything. They always rehash stuff. My money is on a low key website/press release annoucement the week of July 7. Jozwiak will then rehash PowerMac G5 and PowerBook G4 specs at MWCPNY.

Escher

[deathandtaxes]

My money is on Tuesday, July 8 for the PB updates. Tuesday morning is the most common time for new releases that aren't announced at big events via Steve-speak. And it fits with the Apple Store that now lists the 15" PB/Superdrive on a 7-10 day shipping schedule.

Just guessing of course. No insider info at all. Hope the exclamation point on the subject line didn't cause any heart attacks.

I need one as much as the rest of you and this post is simly wishful thinking.

[Eug]

I wonder if even if they do get 15" AluBooks, if they'll keep the OS 9 bootable TiBook around.

[scottiB]

My instinct is probably for another six months or so. IIRC, Joswiak, in a MacCentral article, said that Apple would still sell the PowerMac G4s as long as people still bought them or somesuch. Now, this may be just the company line, but Apple might still offer an 867 or 1GHz with just a combo drive--SD as a BTO.

I think Eug's specs are on the mark, and I'd expect that updated PBooks would be announced this month at some time. The current speeds have been around since November 2002. An interval almost as long as when the TiBooks were updated to 550/667 in October 2001 from the introduction in January 2001 (or was it February?)--eventhough they didn't ship for a month or three after that.

[Eug]

Yeah, it makes sense to continue production of the TiBook, I'd say at 1 GHz, with either combo or SuperDrive. I agree, BTO.

But for everyone else...

[Old Bush voice]

Mark my words, no PPC 970 laptops any time soon.

[/Old Bush voice]

[beachmark]

when apple announced g4 desktops it took way over a year before they released a g4 powerbook.

my 2 cents

[Esquare]

Originally posted by beachmark:
when apple announced g4 desktops it took way over a year before they released a g4 powerbook.

Yep. Sep 1999- Jan 2001.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by beachmark:
when apple announced g4 desktops it took way over a year before they released a g4 powerbook.

my 2 cents

And, at the time, that was with a low-power chip that could easily be used in a PowerBook. The G5 uses way more power.

[Scooterboy]

Is the PowerBook now becoming just an elegant but slow laptop?

"Not as fast as the 9600, but the 9600 would be $$$ and severely handicapped by the slow 1.25 GHz G4 processor anyway." - Eug Wanker

There are PC laptops coming out soon (August 1, probably sooner than the next round of PowerBooks) that will feature 3.2 GHz P4 on 800 MHz FSB and ship with ATi Radeon 9600 with support for up to 4 GB of DDR RAM.

Go to Future Models in the link: http://www.eurocom.com/

I know this PC is a behemoth and has legacy ports, but look at the specs and features. Remember when the PowerBook was the fastest notebook computer in the world?

IBM designed the PPC 970 with portables in mind, and Apple has a chance to catch up with the raw speed of PC notebooks, much like they have with the PowerMac G5.

For $2,600 - $3,200, I would expect the PowerBook to be at least as fast and ship with a video card as advanced as the fastest PC notebooks.

If new PowerBooks are only 1.25 GHz G4's, then I'd rather buy the next updated iBook with the IBM 750GX "Gobi" CPU and use the extra money somewhere else. One could nearly buy a new G5 Power Mac with the price difference between an iBook and a 15" or 17" PowerBook.
If Gobi has a Veocity Engine it may very well clean house on the 12" PowerBook G4 no L3 cache.
Someone who needs the "fastest mobile computer" might go for a PC latop over a PowerBook despite the added weight. And there are a fair few PowerBook owners who might decide to keep waiting until the PowerBook G5 before they upgrade.

[neutrino23]

One size does not fit all. That is why we have iBooks, PBs and desktops. It will be a long time before any laptop is equivalent to a desktop. I think the 3.2GHz laptops mentioned are really better called portable computers. They can't work for long without a power cord.

Apple releases products over time. The keynotes are just snapshots. You can't read too much into them.

The 970 based laptop will come when it is possible. And it will be useful as a loptop. The first version might not get the battery life of the current G4s but they will be pretty good.

I'm looking forward to a 15" Al PB. It will be a great machine and will last me for a couple years till I upgrade to the next UberBook from Apple.

[Commodus]

While the PowerMac G4 -> PowerBook G4 transition indicates that we should expect a delay of several months at least, remember that the gap wasn't helped by Motorola. They went 18 months without going past 500 MHz on the desktop, for goodness' sake! At the risk of sounding like Apple's PR, IBM has a new high-tech fab and has every capability and intention to develop the PPC 970 (G5) and successors as quickly as they can.

Anyways, as for the PowerBook G4s we'll (hopefully) see soon: I think it's a realistic expectation that they'll start at 1 GHz, and will top out at around 1.3 GHz (possibly 1.33 GHz). The 7457 chip sounds like it should be ready soon if not now. And it's a no-brainer to assume that Apple wants GeForce FX Go and Mobility Radeon 9200/9600 video chips in its laptops.

[Eug Wanker]

There are PC laptops coming out soon (August 1, probably sooner than the next round of PowerBooks) that will feature 3.2 GHz P4 on 800 MHz FSB and ship with ATi Radeon 9600 with support for up to 4 GB of DDR RAM.

Go to Future Models in the link: http://www.eurocom.com/

I know this PC is a behemoth and has legacy ports, but look at the specs and features. Remember when the PowerBook was the fastest notebook computer in the world?

You can't be serious. Even PC users are not foolish enough to buy those (save a small minority). Indeed, the current Big Deal (tm) in PC-land are the Centrinos.

If Gobi has a Veocity Engine it may very well clean house on the 12" PowerBook G4 no L3 cache.

The 750GX does not have Altivec.

[Alpha-sphere]

i think the new 4x superdrive will be in the 15" powerbook

[Simon]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
The 750GX does not have Altivec.

But Mohave does.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Simon:
But Mohave does.

I still don't know why this supposed "G3 with Altivec" isn't simply called a G4 in rumours. Are people simply reserving the term G4 for Motorola stuff?

Anyways, it'd be nice if Mojave does appear, and if it can make use of a faster DDR memory bus, because I'd actually buy one.

A 1.67 GHz G4 with 512 KB L2 cache, and true PC2700 support might just be enough for me to upgrade, whether it'd be with a Motorola MPC7457-RM or an IBM 750VX Mojave.

Anyways, I want to upgrade in Q1 2005. Hopefully all of this will already be in place... and more... 0.09 um PPC 970 derivative?

[Eug Wanker]

Hmmm... This post from Laserbutt suggests that one vendor is now listing PC2100 (133 MHz) memory for the 15". That would suggest my 167 MHz bus prediction is wrong.

If true, that'd be a downer. Plus it would make the speeds of the 15" and 17" machines incongruent. eg. The fastest speed of the 15" under 1.3 GHz would be 1.27 GHz, and the fastest speed of the 17" under 1.3 GHz would be 1.25 GHz. Hmmm....

[ae86_16v]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Hmmm... This post from Laserbutt suggests that one vendor is now listing PC2100 (133 MHz) memory for the 15". That would suggest my 167 MHz bus prediction is wrong.

If true, that'd be a downer. Plus it would make the speeds of the 15" and 17" machines incongruent. eg. The fastest speed of the 15" under 1.3 GHz would be 1.27 GHz, and the fastest speed of the 17" under 1.3 GHz would be 1.25 GHz. Hmmm....

Weird. . .

[IgoByte]

It'd be a nice surprise if they ended up using the new 7200RPM 60GB HDD from Hitachi.

It would also be great [IMO] if they finally started using higher-res screens on these. A 15" wide-aspect screen really ought to have a higher native resolution.

EDIT: I also doubt that they'll use a 167Mhz FSB.