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The Godfather · Jan 16, 2007, 12:13 AM

VirtualBox
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The Mac Robotics Blog: New challenger in the virtualization game: Virtual Box

Apparently, Innotek is working on their Mac version of their open source virtualization product: Virtual Box. One Slashdot poster claims to have tested it and it sounds to be very fast. Any one else willing to compile this source?

PhillyRyu. Would you any of your developer acquaintances be interested in making a polished face for this project?

Dark Helmet · Jan 16, 2007, 12:14 AM

What is wrong with Parallels and especially against vaporware?

The Godfather · Jan 16, 2007, 12:35 AM

Is it vaporware?

goMac · Jan 16, 2007, 01:51 AM

I have the VMWare beta on my Macbook Pro right now. How is it vaporware?

Dark Helmet · Jan 16, 2007, 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by The Godfather

Is it vaporware?

You sure made it sound like it is:

"Apparently, Innotek is working on their Mac version of their open source virtualization product: Virtual Box. One Slashdot poster claims to have tested it and it sounds to be very fast."

So can I download it or not?

The Godfather · Jan 16, 2007, 02:16 AM

You can download the Windows and Linux version. You can also download the source. They have instructions on how to compile it in your Mac.

Dark Helmet · Jan 16, 2007, 02:19 AM

Originally Posted by The Godfather

You can download the Windows and Linux version. You can also download the source. They have instructions on how to compile it in your Mac.

Ok lets say I did all that instead of just downloading parallels. How is it better?

goMac · Jan 16, 2007, 02:37 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

You sure made it sound like it is:

"Apparently, Innotek is working on their Mac version of their open source virtualization product: Virtual Box. One Slashdot poster claims to have tested it and it sounds to be very fast."

So can I download it or not?

Oh sorry. You meant Virtual Box. There are screenshots, and source is available. As of now, I could care less. I own Parallels, but I find Virtualization a pain really. The only time I use it is when I'm working on someone's computer. I can just pull their hard drive, and perform OS updates on my machine. It's usually faster, given that whenever I'm working on someone's computer they generally have a P3, K6 or some other non sense.

For running Windows apps I'm keeping my eye on Crossover/WINE.

Doofy · Jan 16, 2007, 03:18 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

What is wrong with Parallels?

It KPs every time I launch a virtual machine?

Big Mac · Jan 16, 2007, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

As of now, I could care less. I own Parallels, but I find Virtualization a pain really. For running Windows apps I'm keeping my eye on Crossover/WINE.

You're looking forward to Crossover yet you find Parallels to be a pain? How much experience do you have with WINE?

Person Man · Jan 16, 2007, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

You're looking forward to Crossover yet you find Parallels to be a pain? How much experience do you have with WINE?

He apparently thinks that Crossover, being a commercial fork of WINE is going to be MUCH better and entirely seamless compared to the open-source WINE...

I have absolutely NO problems whatsoever with Parallels at work. It works great, and is not "a pain" at all.

Mastrap · Jan 16, 2007, 10:01 AM

Parallels rocks my world. Finally it's quick and easy to check if a site works in all browsers.

goMac · Jan 16, 2007, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

You're looking forward to Crossover yet you find Parallels to be a pain? How much experience do you have with WINE?

A lot of stuff works for me under CrossOver. I prefer just double clicking an exe to having to maintain a windows install and deal with the bulk of a vm. In fact, I've had some programs that run awful under Parallels (because they deal with multimedia), but work perfectly under CrossOver.

CrossOver/WINE is still a bit premature, but they look very promising.

Chuckit · Jan 16, 2007, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by The Godfather

PhillyRyu. Would you any of your developer acquaintances be interested in making a polished face for this project?

Why on earth was this addressed to Phill Ryu? And why do you think this would be superior to Parallels and VMware?

Dark Helmet · Jan 16, 2007, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

And why do you think this would be superior to Parallels and VMware?

That was the first question here and it still haven't been answered even though it is apparently good enough to push the others aside.

Gossamer · Jan 16, 2007, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

A lot of stuff works for me under CrossOver. I prefer just double clicking an exe to having to maintain a windows install and deal with the bulk of a vm. In fact, I've had some programs that run awful under Parallels (because they deal with multimedia), but work perfectly under CrossOver.

CrossOver/WINE is still a bit premature, but they look very promising.

I lost about two or three Word documents before I gave up on Crossover and went back to parallels for my Office 2003 needs. Random crashes are NOT cool, especially for important work. For now, it's a toy. Hopefully in the future it will get smoothed out.

goMac · Jan 16, 2007, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

I lost about two or three Word documents before I gave up on Crossover and went back to parallels for my Office 2003 needs. Random crashes are NOT cool, especially for important work. For now, it's a toy. Hopefully in the future it will get smoothed out.

It's been getting more and more stable. There are some websites at work our network admin uses Crossover for because they require Internet Explorer (ActiveX and such). I still think it's a bit premature for it to move out of beta, but I've been able to run a lot of other stuff under it completely stable.

The Godfather · Jan 16, 2007, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Why on earth was this addressed to Phill Ryu? And why do you think this would be superior to Parallels and VMware?

Didn't Phil organize that Dream App contest a while ago?

This is what I meant by "move over"

Two big people sitting on a bench. A small person wants to sit and yells "Move over!". The two scrunch a little and finally the skinny person wedges in between. No one is the better.

Hi I'm Ben · Jan 16, 2007, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Why on earth was this addressed to Phill Ryu? And why do you think this would be superior to Parallels and VMware?

Still waiting for that answer.

Peter · Jan 16, 2007, 01:49 PM

I dont care which i use, i just want one with 3D acceleration...

goMac · Jan 16, 2007, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Peter

I dont care which i use, i just want one with 3D acceleration...

Which is another reason I use Crossover...

(Not all games work. But it's better than nothing.)

Dark Helmet · Jan 16, 2007, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by Peter

I dont care which i use, i just want one with 3D acceleration...

That is why I use Bootcamp. You fire that thing up and you got 100% PC without the ugly hardware.

rickey939 · Jan 16, 2007, 03:32 PM

Parallels is amazing.

bluedog · Feb 19, 2007, 10:59 AM

In some of the recent Parallels builds CR3 (beta 1970). It may have come sooner, but you can look in your Documents Parallels folder and find shortcuts to ALL the installed windows applications (listed in Windows' Start Menu). So you can't just click on a .EXE file in MacOSX to run/install, but you *can* double-click a shortcut to open Parallels and run a specific App.

The location of the folder (in its default) is in the folder with the virtual machine named "Windows Applications". In my case this is "~username/Documents/Parallels/Windows XP/Windows Applications".

Hope this is of some use to Parallels' users.

besson3c · Feb 19, 2007, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Peter

I dont care which i use, i just want one with 3D acceleration...

Sounds like you want Xen, as do I. Xen is much cooler than VMWare, Parallels, and any other para-virualization products.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Feb 19, 2007, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by rickey939

Parallels is amazing.

I keep wanting to like it but I constantly have major problems with it and since it just recently supported USB and still no 3D it is pretty useless for what I need it for.

Not to mention it causes my MacBook fans to go apeshit in no time when bootcamp doesn't.

besson3c · Feb 19, 2007, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

I keep wanting to like it but I constantly have major problems with it and since it just recently supported USB and still no 3D it is pretty useless for what I need it for.

Not to mention it causes my MacBook fans to go apeshit in no time when bootcamp doesn't.

I don't think a solution like Parallels will ever provide good 3D so long as they are emulating a video card. This is overcome with virualization technology such as Intel's VT technology and solutions such as Xen.

besson3c · Feb 19, 2007, 01:04 PM

Info on Xen

I've been babbling about it for a reason. I hope that they get it working for Intel Macs running OS X!

mitchell_pgh · Feb 19, 2007, 01:27 PM

Call me when I can run OS X virtually on a PC.

But seriously... this type of program has sold a bunch of people on Mac hardware. I hope it keeps coming.

Gossamer · Feb 19, 2007, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

Call me when I can run OS X virtually on a PC.

But seriously... this type of program has sold a bunch of people on Mac hardware. I hope it keeps coming.

It's been done. I'd post a link but they get deleted by the mods.

voiceofra · Feb 19, 2007, 05:29 PM

Odd that nobody has mentioned QEMU or "Q" it's OS X port.
Parallels uses (maybe at this point the term is "used") the same source code that Parallels is based on.
Sure, it's not as pretty, but if you don't really need the über-advanced features like USB 2 - say you just need to connect to a Windows server or run that select few apps that are Windows only or you want to install Yellow Dog or NetBSD and reaaally don't want to spend the money on Parallels (we all pay for our software, right?)..it's a viable option.

besson3c · Feb 19, 2007, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by voiceofra

Odd that nobody has mentioned QEMU or "Q" it's OS X port.
Parallels uses (maybe at this point the term is "used") the same source code that Parallels is based on.
Sure, it's not as pretty, but if you don't really need the über-advanced features like USB 2 - say you just need to connect to a Windows server or run that select few apps that are Windows only or you want to install Yellow Dog or NetBSD and reaaally don't want to spend the money on Parallels (we all pay for our software, right?)..it's a viable option.

Doesn't qemu only handle emulation though? If so, it makes a great alternative on PPC based Macs, but is pretty inefficient on Intel Macs.

I'd wait to see if VMWare Workstation and VMWare Player will be free on OS X, as the latter will play images you've created in your 30-day Workstation trial indefinitely (Player is free).

voiceofra · Feb 19, 2007, 06:29 PM

Doesn't qemu only handle emulation though? If so, it makes a great alternative on PPC based Macs, but is pretty inefficient on Intel Macs.

I'd wait to see if VMWare Workstation and VMWare Player will be free on OS X, as the latter will play images you've created in your 30-day Workstation trial indefinitely (Player is free).

What's inefficient about it?
No need for Boot Camp, no need to reboot to use windows or linux.
For some people - such as myself - with the need to open a windows app relatively quickly (say for cross-platform compatibility checks - browser or application), it works great.
It all depends on your needs, I suppose.
Parallels is great, no arguement here, but lately I'm finding that QEMU is closer suited to my actual needs and am using it more and more often.

Person Man · Feb 19, 2007, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Sounds like you want Xen, as do I. Xen is much cooler than VMWare, Parallels, and any other para-virualization products.

Both VMWare and Parallels claim that they will support 3D acceleration in the future.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Feb 19, 2007, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by Person Man

Both VMWare and Parallels claim that they will support 3D acceleration in the future.

Just in time for Duke Nukem Forever.

besson3c · Feb 19, 2007, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by Person Man

Both VMWare and Parallels claim that they will support 3D acceleration in the future.

And how will they accomplish this - by emulating a newer video card? What if you want your virtualized environment to use the video card you have?

houstonmacbro · Feb 19, 2007, 08:16 PM

So is Parallels slow or fast on a loaded Macbook Core duo Pro?

voiceofra · Feb 19, 2007, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by houstonmacbro

So is Parallels slow or fast on a loaded Macbook Core duo Pro?

All depends on your configuration, what else you're running, etc.
That's like asking "Is a Porche fast on the freeway?" Depends on if you've got the stock model, souped up engine, how many cars are in the way, the weather...
Download it and give it try.

JoshuaZ · Feb 20, 2007, 12:46 AM

This argument is nonsense. Clearly the winner will always be Virtual PC 5! Nothing beats having Windows running off of a G4 processor. You guys are all delusional.

Chuckit · Feb 20, 2007, 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by houstonmacbro

So is Parallels slow or fast on a loaded Macbook Core duo Pro?

Parallels is pretty speedy for most purposes.

Gossamer · Feb 20, 2007, 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by houstonmacbro

So is Parallels slow or fast on a loaded Macbook Core duo Pro?

It's quite fast on my DC 2.0 iMac with 2 gigs of RAM, I'd assume the MBP would be similar.

Person Man · Feb 20, 2007, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

And how will they accomplish this - by emulating a newer video card? What if you want your virtualized environment to use the video card you have?

It remains to be seen how they accomplish this. Perhaps they will emulate a newer video card, or perhaps they will allow the virtual machine to use the native card. I don't have a crystal ball so I can't tell you what either company is doing.

Allowing the VM to use the native card will be difficult to do in windowed mode, but full screen should be easier. So maybe they'll emulate something newer in windowed mode, but for full performance you'll need to use full screen mode. And Parallels IS taking advantage of Intel's VT-x technology, just like Xen.

VMWare already has DirectX 8 working (in preliminary fashion), but it's a hidden preference at the moment.

besson3c · Feb 20, 2007, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by Person Man

It remains to be seen how they accomplish this. Perhaps they will emulate a newer video card, or perhaps they will allow the virtual machine to use the native card. I don't have a crystal ball so I can't tell you what either company is doing.

Allowing the VM to use the native card will be difficult to do in windowed mode, but full screen should be easier. So maybe they'll emulate something newer in windowed mode, but for full performance you'll need to use full screen mode. And Parallels IS taking advantage of Intel's VT-x technology, just like Xen.

VMWare already has DirectX 8 working (in preliminary fashion), but it's a hidden preference at the moment.

Cool!

However it's done, full virtualization (as opposed to para-virutalization like we have now) is the way to go