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fisherKing · Jun 20, 2005, 10:07 PM

tiger 10.4.1 (powerbook 1.33g).

sometimes i lose the ability to hide an app (which i use instead of minimizing).
i will, for example, go to hide safari, but that option is greyed out (as is "Hide Others").

usually, closing & re-opening the app will bring that option back.

this never happened to me in 10.3.x. this is on a brand-new HD with a clean install of 10.4.

anyone else?
any thoughts??

Hi I'm Ben · Jun 20, 2005, 10:49 PM

You have to have one unhid application. You most likely have hid everything (including the finder) the last app you haven't hid is Safari. You're not allowed to hide it because SOMETHING has to be active. If you're confused on which apps may be hiding maybe install TinkerTool and set hidden applications to go dim in your dock so you can tell easier.

fisherKing · Jun 20, 2005, 11:08 PM

hmmmm...
i NEVER hide the finder.
plus, this works most of the time (and always worked in 10.3)

i should add, when this happens, it (seems to) happen to all open apps...

Dog Like Nature · Jun 21, 2005, 11:34 AM

On a (slightly-)related topic -- didn't Hide in 10.3 fade the dock icon? In 10.4 nothing happens to indicate a running app is hidden?!

Or am I losing it?

JLL · Jun 21, 2005, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by fisherKing

hmmmm...
i NEVER hide the finder.
plus, this works most of the time (and always worked in 10.3)

i should add, when this happens, it (seems to) happen to all open apps...

Are you shure you haven't pressed Cmd-H once too many?

JHromadka · Jun 21, 2005, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Dog Like Nature

On a (slightly-)related topic -- didn't Hide in 10.3 fade the dock icon? In 10.4 nothing happens to indicate a running app is hidden?!

Or am I losing it?

You're losing it. 10.4 greys out hidden apps.

TheSpaz · Jun 21, 2005, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Dog Like Nature

On a (slightly-)related topic -- didn't Hide in 10.3 fade the dock icon? In 10.4 nothing happens to indicate a running app is hidden?!

Or am I losing it?

No you're not losing it. Grayed out hidden Apps is NOT on by default (In any version of OS X). You must have turned it on with a 3rd party App such as "TinkerTool" or "Transparent Dock". I have NO CLUE why this was never an option in the System Preferences because I think it's better to SEE that the App is hidden. How else do you tell? How would you know if you hid Safari or not... Lets say you're browsing a web page and you get distracted cause the phone rings and you hide Safari... then when you get back to your computer and sit down forgetting that you were just using Safari reading a web page and you accidentally cmd-tab-Q Safari... Then you lose the page you were viewing...

I dunno if it's a good example or not but, I like to be able to tell at first glance what I have hidden. I am a HUGE fan of cmd-H or option-click (the desktop) to hide apps. I actually hardly use the minimize feature... if I want my windows out of the way, I just hide the app temporarily.

fisherKing · Jun 21, 2005, 05:30 PM

...all of which brings me back to my original question.

command-H will sometimes be greyed out, on all open apps.
a restart (or logout/login) fixes it.

last call for help! thankx!

Hi I'm Ben · Jun 21, 2005, 07:13 PM

I already told you why it's happening. Sorry you don't believe me that you couldn't possibly hide the finder on accident. I guess your machine is just broke!

but really, you're hiding the finder.
http://www.imben.net/macnn/broked.jpg

look mine is broke too!

fisherKing · Jun 21, 2005, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by Hi I'm Ben

I already told you why it's happening. Sorry you don't believe me that you couldn't possibly hide the finder on accident. I guess your machine is just broke!

but really, you're hiding the finder.

okay, mac genius, will test your theory next time this happens
(funny i NEVER had this problem when i was in 10.3...)

if you're right i'll eat my hat (will have to buy a hat first tho)

if not, well...i'll be back...

Superchicken · Jun 21, 2005, 08:47 PM

losers, who hits Command H? All the cool kids hold Alt while switching Apps... that's the real way to hide Apps!

Chuckit · Jun 21, 2005, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by Superchicken

losers, who hits Command H? All the cool kids hold Alt while switching Apps...

All the cool kids call it "option."

nforcer · Jun 22, 2005, 12:49 AM

All the cool kids have their Logitech mice configured with USB Overdrive so one of the 8 buttons hides whatever the current app is.

siMac · Jun 22, 2005, 02:19 AM

Has anyone else experienced bizarre 'Hide' behaviour with the Adobe apps? For example, sometimes I hide Photoshop and it doesn't come back. Ever. I have to force quit it. Other times Acrobat refuses to get the hell off my screen until it is quit and restarted.

This is on 10.3, I haven't had a chance to test this on 10.4 yet..

Edit: and another thing - what's with apps that don't use Cmd-H as a shortcut for hiding? Some apps don't provide any shortcut at all (I'm looking at you, Illustrator). That really bugs me. [/rant]

PurpleGiant · Jun 22, 2005, 02:57 AM

siMac: I used to have this problem in Photoshop, it seems to have gone away. I'm now running Tiger, not sure if this made a difference.

Adobe's lack of using Apple-H to hide frustrates me every day. Especially Illustrator not even using cmd-ctrl-H like Photoshop.

Hi I'm Ben · Jun 22, 2005, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by PurpleGiant

siMac: I used to have this problem in Photoshop, it seems to have gone away. I'm now running Tiger, not sure if this made a difference.

Adobe's lack of using Apple-H to hide frustrates me every day. Especially Illustrator not even using cmd-ctrl-H like Photoshop.

There's no lack of Apple+H in adobe, you just have to edit it as the hot key for hiding the program, because it's not set that way.

and yes, all the cool kids configure their mouse to do Apple+H.

TheSpaz · Jun 22, 2005, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Hi I'm Ben

There's no lack of Apple+H in adobe, you just have to edit it as the hot key for hiding the program, because it's not set that way.

and yes, all the cool kids configure their mouse to do Apple+H.

I was just about to post that... you beat me to it. That's the way to do it though... it's pretty cool that Illustrator lets you edit the menu shortcuts. GO ADOBE!

CaptainHaddock · Jun 22, 2005, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by TheSpaz

Grayed out hidden Apps is NOT on by default (In any version of OS X). You must have turned it on with a 3rd party App such as "TinkerTool" or "Transparent Dock". I have NO CLUE why this was never an option in the System Preferences because I think it's better to SEE that the App is hidden. How else do you tell?

I think greying out hidden apps is a poor UI idea.

1. Why do you need to know which apps are hidden? What usability advantages does it add? If you want to use the app, click on it. If an app is in your way, hide it.

2. In OS X, greying something out - like a menu option or toolbar icon - means that it's unavailable for use. However, hidden apps are very much available, so greying them out would be inconsistent.

TheSpaz · Jun 22, 2005, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by CaptainHaddock

I think greying out hidden apps is a poor UI idea.

1. Why do you need to know which apps are hidden? What usability advantages does it add? If you want to use the app, click on it. If an app is in your way, hide it.

2. In OS X, greying something out - like a menu option or toolbar icon - means that it's unavailable for use. However, hidden apps are very much available, so greying them out would be inconsistent.

If that's the case then there should be at least something there to tell the user that the App is hidden instead of just running with the windows all closed. Do you understand what I mean? When an App is hidden.. the minimized windows disappear and the open windows disappear and nothing else indicates that it's hidden.

And by the way... the icon doesn't "Gray Out" it becomes Semi-Transparent.

And again, you said that Graying out things makes the user think it's unavailable? What about titlebars and titlebar widgets on windows in the background... don't they "gray out".... yet they still remain available... it's just an indication of what is in the background and what is in the forground... which is exactly how hidden apps should behave... if you think about it, when you hide an App... you're sort of sending it to the background.

Hi I'm Ben · Jun 22, 2005, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by CaptainHaddock

I think greying out hidden apps is a poor UI idea.

1. Why do you need to know which apps are hidden? What usability advantages does it add? If you want to use the app, click on it. If an app is in your way, hide it.

2. In OS X, greying something out - like a menu option or toolbar icon - means that it's unavailable for use. However, hidden apps are very much available, so greying them out would be inconsistent.

If it's a poor UI idea I hope to god they never choose to "fix" it since it's very useful if you have never tried it.

TheSpaz · Jun 22, 2005, 03:33 PM

Chuckit · Jun 22, 2005, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by CaptainHaddock

2. In OS X, greying something out - like a menu option or toolbar icon - means that it's unavailable for use. However, hidden apps are very much available, so greying them out would be inconsistent.

It is not greyed out. It is made translucent, which seems like a good way to convey "hidden" to me.

sspire · Jun 22, 2005, 04:46 PM

Folks,

Calm down. Greyed out = translucent. Both are the result of the opacity not being 100% (same difference no matter what you call it.)

This thread is humorous in the fact that it shows how different people interpret different things and utilize the features.

Originally Posted by TheSpaz

I have NO CLUE why this was never an option in the System Preferences because I think it's better to SEE that the App is hidden. How else do you tell? How would you know if you hid Safari or not... Lets say you're browsing a web page and you get distracted cause the phone rings and you hide Safari... then when you get back to your computer and sit down forgetting that you were just using Safari reading a web page and you accidentally cmd-tab-Q Safari... Then you lose the page you were viewing...

I dunno if it's a good example or not but, I like to be able to tell at first glance what I have hidden. I am a HUGE fan of cmd-H or option-click (the desktop) to hide apps. I actually hardly use the minimize feature... if I want my windows out of the way, I just hide the app temporarily.

First of all, if I hide an app, I'm very conscious of the fact that I did it in the first place.

Second... (as per the example) if there were a case where I "forgot" that I hid something, I'd know Safari was on because of the "triangle" in the dock. I'd click on the dock Safari icon and oh! .... there my windows are!

Also, don't forget about F9, F10, F11, and F12 if you want your windows out of the way or if you want to see every window of every app you have open at a glance.

Chuckit · Jun 22, 2005, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by sspire

Greyed out = translucent. Both are the result of the opacity not being 100% (same difference no matter what you call it.)

That's not true. Look at greyed-out text in a menu. Can you see through it? No. It's made greyer, not more transparent.

Hi I'm Ben · Jun 22, 2005, 09:08 PM

You guys argue over the dumbest things. If you know what I'm describing why must we have a debate over what greyed out means? Stop being so damn critical and stick to the topic.

fisherKing · Jun 22, 2005, 11:13 PM

my thread's been hijacked!

anyway,
the problem has not happened since i posted...??

so, back to work & will report back when (& if)

jamil5454 · Jun 23, 2005, 11:01 AM

You jinxed your problem by posting about it. This is a good way to fix all problems.

JHromadka · Jun 23, 2005, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Hi I'm Ben

You guys argue over the dumbest things. If you know what I'm describing why must we have a debate over what greyed out means? Stop being so damn critical and stick to the topic.

Greyed out or grayed out?

fisherKing · Jun 23, 2005, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by jamil5454

You jinxed your problem by posting about it. This is a good way to fix all problems.

you're right, posting DID fix my problem!
(also cleared up acne, balanced my checkbook, and made peace w/girlfriend).

macnn works! the system works!

CatOne · Jun 23, 2005, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by JHromadka

Greyed out or grayed out?

No stick poking necessary... they are both valid English spellings of the word.

Lew · Jun 24, 2005, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by CatOne

No stick poking necessary... they are both valid English spellings of the word.

…for a given value of "English".

timmerk · Jun 26, 2005, 11:20 PM

there is no mystery.

CaptainHaddock · Jun 27, 2005, 02:29 AM

Originally Posted by JHromadka

Greyed out or grayed out?

As I am Canadian, grey is spelt with an e.

timmerk · Jun 27, 2005, 03:37 PM

FYI, the U.S. is the only place that spells "gray" like "gray". Everywhere else it is "grey".

fisherKing · Jun 27, 2005, 06:04 PM

not to go off topic

but i am suspecting that hi i'm ben is right...and am gonna buy a hat next week if the theory holds.

when i work with logic & reason (i love the way that sounds), the mac gets a little sluggish, and i may have hidden the finder sometimes.

if this is true, next week: hat as dinner.

Groovy · Jun 27, 2005, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by timmerk

FYI, the U.S. is the only place that spells "gray" like "gray". Everywhere else it is "grey".

FYI it is U.S.A.

SSharon · Jun 27, 2005, 06:42 PM

Just to chime in for a moment I want to add that you do not need any third party app to have dock icons transparent. There is a one line command that you can copy paste into the Terminal to do this for you. I happen to think its very useful, but it is by no means a hack to be concerned over. PM me or IM me if you can't find the command.

TheSpaz · Jun 27, 2005, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by Groovy

FYI it is U.S.A.

FYI it is USA (They no longer use the "." between the letters)

Chuckit · Jun 27, 2005, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by TheSpaz

FYI it is USA (They no longer use the "." between the letters)

Who no longer uses them?

JHromadka · Jun 27, 2005, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by CatOne

No stick poking necessary... they are both valid English spellings of the word.

I know. It was a joke. I personally prefer spelling it using grey.

fisherKing · Jul 9, 2005, 01:03 PM

have not had this problem since checking that finder is showing.
it may be that i was accidently hiding the finder after all...

(insert hat-eating, embarrassed smilie here)

aehaas · Jul 9, 2005, 01:36 PM

No computer that I have with 10.4.1 can hide Quark. You can pick Hide in the menu or type command-H but no joy since 10.4.

aehaas

Groovy · 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by TheSpaz

FYI it is USA (They no longer use the "." between the letters)

FYI "they" are wrong

EDIT: added a smile face too lol