[Face Ache]

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/...441238811.html

So let the tasteless jokes begin.

"Going down for the last time".

Sorry. Had to do that.

[juanvaldes]

NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

[KellyHogan]

She had skill.

[Cipher13]

Hmm... I'm not familiar with her work...

[omac]

i heards she had a frog in her throat..

she was going down on charles aznavour at the time..

[omac]

linda , wherever you are - heaven or that other place..

bit of advice...

'keep your chin up..'

[omac]

and don't talk with your mouth full

[ThisGuy]

I heard this morning on Howard Stern that she taught Sammy Davis Jr. to deep throat. I guess he liked to orally pleasure her husband while she watched.

[ 04-23-2002: Message edited by: ThisGuy ]

[omac]

why else was he in the rat pack ?

ol' blue eyes must have been well put out..ooer

[M�lum]

Did she go to heaven or hell?

[Hawkeye_a]

i hate to be a prick, but if any of you read the article, she was forced into porn. She was by no means a whore. If whe was a money-hungry whore, id understand the jokes, but please, a little respect.[/LIST]

[ringo]

Wow, it sucks that she didn't make any money from "Deep Throat."

[omac]

[Mastrap]

Originally posted by Hawkeye_a:
<STRONG>i hate to be a prick, but if any of you read the article, she was forced into porn. She was by no means a whore. If whe was a money-hungry whore, id understand the jokes, but please, a little respect.[/LIST]</STRONG>

I agree with your sentiment but not sure about the wording.

I mean, even a prostitute would most probably not liked to be called a whore. "Whore" has become more of a swearword than a descriptive, don't you agree? Sorry to be splitting hairs....

[omac]

yes , show some respect for the old coick suking slag heep

forced ? oh yeah , i buy that one..

thats what chix ALWAYS say .... afterwards..

[zigzag]

Having seen her work, I was a bit skeptical of the victimization claims. I would bet that the truth was somewhere in-between, as it usually is. In any case, while anyone's death is regrettable, the movie is a part of history - I wouldn't take the jokes too seriously.

I don't know if anyone else remembers, but when the movie came out, it was shown on Main Street (in my city anyway), advertised on the radio, featured on the cover of Time, etc. For better or worse, it was quite a cultural event.

[lurkalot]

Originally posted by omac:
<STRONG>yes , show some respect for the old coick suking slag heep

forced ? oh yeah , i buy that one..

thats what chix ALWAYS say .... afterwards..</STRONG>

A lot of people get f cked for a living not everybody as literally as these gals.

[Hawkeye_a]

i seem to be the only one who hasnt seen the movie... what was so "revolutionary" about it anyways ? or should i just go rent it ?

[pdjr]

She was an anti-porn activist longer than she was adult entertainer, FYI.

[Mastrap]

Originally posted by Hawkeye_a:
<STRONG>i seem to be the only one who hasnt seen the movie... what was so "revolutionary" about it anyways ? or should i just go rent it ? </STRONG>

There is a pretty funny scene in it where a girl is asking her busy lover: "You don't mind me smoking while you're eating, do you?"

[theolein]

Damn. R.I.P. Linda. The first porn movie I ever saw. I read her autobiography and believe some of it. I don't think she was forced though. I think it was more out of curiosity. The morals of the age were different.

[zigzag]

Originally posted by Hawkeye_a:
<STRONG>i seem to be the only one who hasnt seen the movie... what was so "revolutionary" about it anyways ? or should i just go rent it ? </STRONG>

It was notable for a variety of reasons, but mostly because it was the first hardcore porn flick that was ambitious enough to follow Hollywood conventions - plot development, character development, dialogue, comedy, music, titles, etc. (I'm not saying it succeeded, only that it made an overt effort). It just had a whole different feel (no pun intended) from what had gone before - it was more like a regular Hollywood feature, and it was fun rather than dreary. Before Deep Throat, hardcore was pretty much limited to silent, grainy 5-minute set pieces (guy dressed as sailor knocks on door, housewife answers, sailor pretends he's lost, housewife gives him the ride of his life; or, pool cleaner knocks on door, housewife answers, pool cleaner pretends he needs to use the phone, housewife gives him the ride of his life . . . ). And Linda Lovelace could be described as attractive compared to the typical porn "actress".

There was also a lot of talk about how it was the first porn flick to focus on the woman's satisfaction as opposed to just male gratification. That seems laughable if you watch it now, but it was a topic of discussion at the time.

You also have to consider the context. It came out at the height of the sexual "revolution" (a debatable concept) - it sorta put an exclamation mark on the whole era (along with the publication of "Joy of Sex" and some other books). It seemed as though everyone went to see it, and as though everybody was talking about it, without embarassment. It seems quaint now, but it was quite the thing at the time. Sex was something of a cultural preoccupation then - there was a new sense of freedom.

You also have to remember that there was no such thing as video rentals or cable TV at the time - you either had to buy grainy stag movies at a slimy porn shop or go to a theater. Deep Throat was treated more like a regular Hollywood feature film that couples could go to and talk about at parties.

As for renting it - sure, why not. I haven't seen it in 25 years but I imagine that it's still amusing in its way, and it does have a perverse sort of historical importance. But bear in mind that the sex is hard-core, so I wouldn't plan on showing it at the wife's next book club meeting.

[zigzag]

Originally posted by Mastrap:
<STRONG>

There is a pretty funny scene in it where a girl is asking her busy lover: "You don't mind me smoking while you're eating, do you?"

</STRONG>

My favorite line was "What's a nice dick like you doing in a chick like this?" (a play on a pick-up line that was popular at the time - I don't know if people still use it - "What's a nice girl like you doing in a place like this?")

[Mastrap]

Originally posted by zigzag:
<STRONG>

so I wouldn't plan on showing it at the wife's next book club meeting.</STRONG>

Knowing my girlfriend, that is exactly where she'd show it

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by theolein:
<STRONG>Damn. R.I.P. Linda. The first porn movie I ever saw. I read her autobiography and believe some of it. I don't think she was forced though. I think it was more out of curiosity. The morals of the age were different.</STRONG>

I dunno. I've seen a couple of documentaries on porn stars that committed suicide, even though they were at the top of their industry. Their names escape me at the moment, but what the porn industry people had to say unnerved me. Being a man I have viewed (and still view) pornography, but the people that are employed in it are not leading happy lives, it seems.
One quote that stood out to me, after the documentary had chronicled the actress running away from home to escape child sexual abuse, a male porn actor had said "It's child abuse that feeds this industry". He meant in terms of how many of the female porn actresses he'd worked with had all been abused as minor children. Couple that with the pervasive (apparently) drug usage of everyone involved, and it doesn't paint a pretty picture.
when you hear that, it doesn't seem all far-fetched to think Linda Lovelace might not have been completely in favor of what happened. I can't answer that. I DO know, as someone else pointed out, she spent a great deal of her later life being an activist against pornography...so for that reason alone, it seems rather macabre to make some of these jokes at her death.

also, if anyone read the story about the last days of John Holmes in Rolling Stone, that was certainly a sad end.

[zigzag]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
<STRONG>I dunno. I've seen a couple of documentaries on porn stars that committed suicide, even though they were at the top of their industry. Their names escape me at the moment, but what the porn industry people had to say unnerved me . . . when you hear that, it doesn't seem all far-fetched to think Linda Lovelace might not have been completely in favor of what happened.</STRONG>

No doubt true, I'm just skeptical when someone publishes a book and hits the talk show circuit claiming that they were literally enslaved, as Lovelace did. It had an air of opportunism about it.

I suspect that it's more a combination of bad choices and exploitation resulting therefrom. That doesn't justify the exploitation, and it's no less tragic, I'm just skeptical when I hear someone suggest that "I have no responsibility whatsoever for what happened," as Lovelace did.

<STRONG>I DO know, as someone else pointed out, she spent a great deal of her later life being an activist against pornography...so for that reason alone, it seems rather macabre to make some of these jokes at her death. </STRONG>

Macabre, definitely, but also inevitable. I don't think anyone means any disrespect towards her as a human being - we didn't actually know her - there's just no getting around the fact that she made a notorious movie that itself reflected a fun attitude towards sex, and I think the jokes reflect that. But you're correct that the fun refelcted in the movies often comes at the expense of the individuals involved.

Human life can be awfully contradictory.

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by zigzag:
<STRONG>But you're correct that the fun refelcted in the movies often comes at the expense of the individuals involved.

Human life can be awfully contradictory. </STRONG>

yup, sorry I wasn't thinking and didn't mean to rain on people's fun.
Its just that I would have felt differently if she was making movies right up to the end, then it would have seemed appropriate (as appropriate as jokes at someone's demise could be) to link jokes about porn to her...but since she was so counter to that (whether she was in denial as to her culpability or not) for so long seemed a little unfair.

FWIW, I'm not averse to macabre jokes, I just was responding to someone who said that she lied about being coerced, and I was just saying it is not all that out of the realm of possibility that she could have been correct to some degree.

After all, how does one get to a point in their life where making a porn movie is ok/acceptable to oneself? What variety of factors bring that about? Certainly, some could be exhibitionists and get off on it, but you also have to think a certain amount are just very good actors and are not enjoying it as much as they seem. Heck, I don't like MY job every day, but at least it doesn't involve going down on or being violated by perfect strangers...well, maybe metaphorically, but ....

[ringo]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
<STRONG>
I dunno. I've seen a couple of documentaries on porn stars that committed suicide, even though they were at the top of their industry. &lt;snip&gt;</STRONG>

Sounds like you're thinking of Savannah. More info here for those who are interested...
http://www.geocities.com/nancypera20...h-tragedy.html

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by ringo:
<STRONG>

Sounds like you're thinking of Savannah. More info here for those who are interested...
http://www.geocities.com/nancypera20...h-tragedy.html</STRONG>

that was one of them...there was another one, also a blonde, whose name escapes me.

[theolein]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
<STRONG>

that was one of them...there was another one, also a blonde, whose name escapes me.</STRONG>

Lolo Ferrari.

[omac]

they're all dead from the neck up, anyway .. its from the waist down thats the important thing !

[theolein]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
<STRONG>

I dunno. I've seen a couple of documentaries on porn stars that committed suicide, even though they were at the top of their industry. Their names escape me at the moment, but what the porn industry people had to say unnerved me. Being a man I have viewed (and still view) pornography, but the people that are employed in it are not leading happy lives, it seems.
One quote that stood out to me, after the documentary had chronicled the actress running away from home to escape child sexual abuse, a male porn actor had said "It's child abuse that feeds this industry". He meant in terms of how many of the female porn actresses he'd worked with had all been abused as minor children. Couple that with the pervasive (apparently) drug usage of everyone involved, and it doesn't paint a pretty picture.
when you hear that, it doesn't seem all far-fetched to think Linda Lovelace might not have been completely in favor of what happened. I can't answer that. I DO know, as someone else pointed out, she spent a great deal of her later life being an activist against pornography...so for that reason alone, it seems rather macabre to make some of these jokes at her death.

also, if anyone read the story about the last days of John Holmes in Rolling Stone, tha certainly a sad end.</STRONG>

Dunno. I used to know awoman in Berlin who started out as a prostitute because the money was good and "the work was easy" . She had quite a hefty coke habit. The last I heard of her she was working in a women's anti-abuse workshop.

[zigzag]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
<STRONG>After all, how does one get to a point in their life where making a porn movie is ok/acceptable to oneself? What variety of factors bring that about? Certainly, some could be exhibitionists and get off on it, but you also have to think a certain amount are just very good actors and are not enjoying it as much as they seem.</STRONG>

I would venture to say that very few of them, if any, are in it because they "like it", that they would do it if they could afford not to. It's an easy way to make a buck and get some attention if you're so inclined, and it obviously attracts a lot of losers, victims, etc. (not that I condemn them, just that, as you said, many of them seem to end up on the slag heap of life). Indeed, I don't normally watch commercial porn, not because I object to it, but because it's so unconvincing - it's all about big hair, fake breasts, fake orgasms, inane dialogue, etc.

[Face Ache]

Hey who got serious?

Okay. I can do serious.

Re: Black humour and Porn and Death.

This might explain where I'm coming from with my total disregard for other's feelings :

A few selected highlights (or lowlights) of my life so far have been: Having a best friend turn to male prostitution when we were street kids ("I would rather starve thanks" said I); having a 15 year old sister who worked as a topless barmaid; having two 16 year old female friends who worked as mud wrestlers (one never made it to 17 - no she didn't drown in mud); having two former flatmates that were prostitutes (one was a junkie); erm, and a bunch of other bad stuff.

Nobody is in the sex industry for fun but some people don't think too hard before getting into it. Young people particularly. Abused young people even more so. Once there the money is too hard to resist.

I also worked in Operating Theatres and saw a bunch 'o' death and Sick Stuff�. You develop a really black (gallows) humour as a coping mechanism. Hence my shiny black humour. I am one sick puppy.

So if anyone was going to make sick jokes about this it was probably gonna be me.

So I did.

More to come.

[sdchef]

Originally posted by zigzag:
<STRONG>

No doubt true, I'm just skeptical when someone publishes a book and hits the talk show circuit claiming that they were literally enslaved, as Lovelace did. It had an air of opportunism about it.

I suspect that it's more a combination of bad choices and exploitation resulting therefrom. That doesn't justify the exploitation, and it's no less tragic, I'm just skeptical when I hear someone suggest that "I have no responsibility whatsoever for what happened," as Lovelace did.
</STRONG>

people are funny.
When I was growing up my great aunt was a hellbent for leather full mass catholic - very pious and upright - left all her money to the nuns. after she died the stories of her being an "exotic dancer" in the philipines started to float. I wouldn't believe it until my mom of all people brought out a box full of 1920s nudie fotos of aunt mary cathryn - sick but - wow was she a hottie. Auntie spent 12 years in The Business before she latched onto unca bill and went straight. she wasn't forced she had alot of fun but boy the guilt trip afterwords.

[Face Ache]

Originally posted by sdchef:
<STRONG>When I was growing up my great aunt was a hellbent for leather full mass catholic</STRONG>

I just read that as a "hellbent for a full leather Catholic Mass".

I knew some Catholics were kinky, but...

Ah, Lysdexia!

[zigzag]

Originally posted by sdchef:
<STRONG>

people are funny.
When I was growing up my great aunt was a hellbent for leather full mass catholic - very pious and upright - left all her money to the nuns. after she died the stories of her being an "exotic dancer" in the philipines started to float. I wouldn't believe it until my mom of all people brought out a box full of 1920s nudie fotos of aunt mary cathryn - sick but - wow was she a hottie. Auntie spent 12 years in The Business before she latched onto unca bill and went straight. she wasn't forced she had alot of fun but boy the guilt trip afterwords.</STRONG>

That reminds me of a women I knew in college who, among other things, participated in a contest with a couple of other girls to see how many different men they could bag in the space of 2 weeks. I recently learned that she is now a self-described "conservative Catholic."

[omac]

yeah , but the pope's all for - go forth & procreate.. it helps make more christians.. only prob. the priests took him literraly and try & make out with lil' boys.. sik fux.

[malvolio]

Let me break this to you gently - two males can't procreate.


[ 04-25-2002: Message edited by: malvolio ]

[omac]

..so how do you explain saddam hussein , then ?

[malvolio]

Asexual reproduction, like bacteria.

[Mastrap]

Originally posted by Face Ache:
<STRONG>


Ah, Lysdexia! </STRONG>

Do you know the one about the dyslexic, agnostic, insomniac? He lay awake all night, wondering if there was a dog.....