[iFan]

I don't understand why the new iMac doesn't have an integrated TV tuner. Front Row is a decent application, but it seems to me that its really not living up to its full potential without an option for watching and recording TV. You can do anything separately without it, but I think I would be more likely to use it if it had TV functionality.

If Apple truly wants to be kind of the "media center" arena, I don't know why they are not adding that last touch.

[mduell]

Limited to analog only (limited channels, no HD) or expensive/difficult CableCards, and of course it would hurt iTunes TV sales.

I think the latter is the same reason iTunes doesn't add DVD ripping support.

[analogika]

iTunes CANNOT add DVD ripping support for commercial DVDs because that would necessarily entail decryption for subsequent conversion, which is completely and utterly illegal in more countries than not.

The film studios Apple has been courting for iTunes movie sales would be out of the deal at the drop of a hat.

As for TV: What kind? HDTV? Analog? DVB-T? DVB-S? PAL/NTSC? What about encodings? various digital networks require decoders.

Offer all of these, and figure another $300 on the price of the machine, and you're probably still not supporting some regional variant.

It would be a bit like adding radio to the iPod and making *every* customer pay for stuff they're explicitly trying to GET AWAY from.

I have an iPod so I *don't* have to listen to the radio.

I have a media collection on my computer because I hate watching television.

Make it optional, and you the fitting solution for everybody.

That's where elgato steps up to the bat. The end.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by analogika 

iTunes CANNOT add DVD ripping support for commercial DVDs because that would necessarily entail decryption for subsequent conversion, which is completely and utterly illegal in more countries than not.

Nothing in the DVD CCA licensing agreement prohibits the development of products that allow users to copy their DVDs; they'd probably be required by the DVD CCA to apply FairPlay after the encoding, but that's no different than buying from iTMS and avoids paying for the same content twice.

[Big Mac]

Then why did the author of DeCSS go to prison?

[Moonray]

Originally Posted by iFan 

If Apple truly wants to be kind of the "media center" arena, I don't know why they are not adding that last touch.

Where do you read Apple wanted this? Just think that other people do not want to watch tv on their iMac so Apple would be ill-advised to have all customers to pay what only a few want. Besides the space within an iMac appears to be limited.

-

[ghporter]

He "faced prison," and was acquitted-twice. And NOTHING about the licensing agreement has anything to do with DeCSS. The issue with that was that supposedly private algorithms were either reverse engineered or leaked-almost certainly reverse engineered because they were, let's say "less than difficult to figure out."

mduell, that's a great article.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Then why did the author of DeCSS go to prison?

The author of DeCSS didn't go to prison. Also, that's entirely different (reverse engineering instead of licensing) than what I'm suggesting. Apple has already licensed CSS from the DVD CCA for DVD Player.app.

[Big Mac]

The problem is, the MPAA doesn't recognize fair use of its products. Apple had a hard enough time convincing the record cartel to play ball given CD audio ripping. I don't see the MPAA budging.

[analogika]

What I was talking about is that even where developing such software isn't illegal, and it's perfectly illegal to OWN backup copies of your digital media, circumventing copy protection in order ot obtain one usually IS illegal.

And Apple's license for the CSS decoder is most CERTAINLY tied to *extremely* specific terms for playback that no way in HELL include video transcoding.

[P]

Doesn't matter if DVD decoding is illegal or not - if Apple were to do it, the studios would jump ship from iTunes Movie Store.

Adding a TV tuner is not as easy as it sounds, because Apple is an international company, and there are at least 3 different incompatible analog standards spread over the world, and neither of the installed bases is small enough to be ignored. If you think digital - and you should, because everyone is moving to it - you have to support at the very least DVB-T, DVB-C, DVB-S and an optional CA module for encoded transmissions. I could see a digital-only solution, with a CA-module as a BTO, once the digital transition is complete in the US (2009, which puts it after most of Europe) but not before then.

[Kar98]

DVD ripping on a Mac, without third party tools? Ha, that will be the day. You can't even take a screenshot while the DVD player is running.

There are no TV tuners pre-installed in Macs because there too many different TV standards, and Apple likes to offer one size fits all computers. Would be nice if they'd knock off $100 bucks of tuners though, instead of printers

[Kenneth]

I don't think Apple is going to that direction.

[hldan]

You can simply add Elgato's EyeTV USB dongle. I have two of them. I much prefer it to a built-in solution and it receives HD programming for free along with DVR functions. Apple is smart not to include one in the sense that people would complain that they are paying for something they are not using such as a 56k modem. If someone wants to use dial up then they can pay separate for it to be installed.

[Koralatov]

Another downside of a pre-installed TV tuner is that, in the UK, you'd have to pay a TV license when you bought your iMac, even if you never watched TV. I don't watch TV, and I no longer even have one, so I don't pay a TV license as a result. However, when you buy a device capable of receiving and displaying television signals, the seller is required by law to take down your name and address, and notify the TV Licensing Board that you've purchased something you can watch TV on. So, by buying the new iMac, I'd be forced to get a TV license, or face a really stiff fine.

As such, I'm personally glad they haven't put them into the new iMac, and I do agree with the analysis offered above regarding the technical difficulties this presents due to regional variations, and--of course--cost.

[Cadaver]

Slingbox Tuner.

Works great; just as good as a built-in tuner.

I've got one in another room, hidden behind a bookshelf, networked to my Macs (and PC) via a powerline ethernet adapter. Full 30 fps, stereo audio. Can't record, but that's the only (minor) downside.