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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > is it wrong for a die hard mac fan to buy an xbox

is it wrong for a die hard mac fan to buy an xbox
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MAlan
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Nov 12, 2004, 09:35 PM
 
Listen...I want to buy an xbox. I have spent the last month comparing the PS2 and xbox and have come out on the side of the xbox for the following reasons.

1. Disk read errors on PS2 and xbox are rampant but the anecdotal evidence seems to show that the PS2 is much worse in this regard (yes they just released a new version of the PS2 so this argument might be a moot point now)

2. It is a fact that the xbox has better hardware specs than the PS2.

3. It seems to me that Microsoft is the actual innovator in this space for a change (I never thought I'd say that). My arguments for that are supported below.
a. Microsoft did a very obvious thing they put a hard drive in there. Why didn't sony do that. I hate the idea of buying all these memory cards (yeah I know if I don't play that many games I'll only need the one but still).
b. xbox live from what I hear is a very good online experience despite the fact that it costs so much to subscribe to.
c. The graphics on most games on the posts that I read seem to be better than the PS2 with a couple of exceptions.

Where I'm coming out on this is that Microsoft seems to be pulling an Apple with the xbox. They have created a better product for nominally more money. They have a better online experience for more money but you get what you pay for...isn't that what we always say about macs.

Bottom line. I hate to admit it but I admire what microsoft has done with the xbox even though I despise their business practices...even when it comes to the xbox. Yes it makes me sick that they can bleed money until they win in any given market. At least they are actually contributing something to the state of the art in this space while using the same old business tricks.

I'd like to hear what others think...am I way off the mark here or is my point somewhat valid?
     
ManOfSteal
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Nov 12, 2004, 09:36 PM
 
XBox rocks.

Go for it!
     
FulcrumPilot
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Nov 12, 2004, 09:42 PM
 
Buy one and put that big white apple sticker on it.
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willed
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Nov 12, 2004, 09:47 PM
 
It is morally and theologically wrong. I'm sorry.

I don't own either console, but it does seem that the PS2 has more must-have games. But hey, it doesn't really matter. As the Canadian Star-Wars guy pointed out recently, there are several games for each platform worth buying the system for. For every GTA San Andreas there is often a Halo 2 So enjoy.
     
TheBadgerHunter
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Nov 12, 2004, 09:49 PM
 
Apples and oranges. The PS2 is a great console but it just can't compete with the XBox. GameCube sure, even if it doesn't have quite the games or flexibility.

So if you want a console and are prepared to lay down the dough buy an XBox or go for the next generation of them. Soon we'll be seeing the PS3, XBox 2 and Revolution.
     
MAlan  (op)
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Nov 12, 2004, 10:42 PM
 
Yes the PS 2 has a large library of games. Maybe even a larger library of 'must have' games. However, this reminds me of the argument that PCs have more software titles for it so it must be a better platform.

I think the xbox will quickly have more games because the bar is lower for developers of xbox games since they don't need special compiler tools. The architecture is straight forward.

I like sony but where are they these days? I can't believe they let Apple stroll into their space with the ipod and take away one of their flagship products (walkman). I think they are asleep at the wheel and taken hostage by their memory stick unit.
     
lavar78
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Nov 12, 2004, 10:43 PM
 
Originally posted by TheBadgerHunter:
Apples and oranges. The PS2 is a great console but it just can't compete with the XBox. GameCube sure, even if it doesn't have quite the games or flexibility.
You keep dancing around the main point -- it all boils down to what kind of games you like. The Xbox is a horrible choice if you're into RPGs, family-friendly games, and/or the big Nintendo franchises (Mario, Zelda, Metroid). Otherwise, it's a great system (the best hardware/graphics and HDTV, but the biggest footprint). Make sure you check out the controllers -- the Xbox has by far the worst IMO and, since I have all three consoles, I avoid Xbox versions of cross-platform games for that reason. In all honesty, you can't really go wrong with any of the consoles.

Yes the PS 2 has a large library of games. Maybe even a larger library of 'must have' games. However, this reminds me of the argument that PCs have more software titles for it so it must be a better platform.
But it's not the same because, as you said, the PS2 has a (much) larger library of "must have" games. There are very few great Xbox-exclusive games when compared to those on the PS2 (and that's before you count the classic PS1 games it can play). However, while there's much more PC software out there compared to Macs, the general consensus is that the Mac library is probably stronger overall.
( Last edited by lavar78; Nov 12, 2004 at 10:49 PM. )

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Nov 12, 2004, 10:43 PM
 
I bought a PS2 because it was the only right thing to do. I'm not 100% happy with the graphics (aliasing), but in February I will get GT4 and be happy!
     
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Nov 12, 2004, 11:11 PM
 
buying an xbox is not heresy. it has the best hardware but in the end it depends what games your into. the xbox tends to attract first person shooters and racing games. the cube tends to attract role playing games and the large library of nintendo only games and the ps2 tends to attract fighters and simulation or strategy games and games that test reflexes. All of them have games based on movies and sports gameds and the like so choose which system has the best games for you.
     
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Nov 12, 2004, 11:28 PM
 
I agree, none of that stuff matters. What games do you find more enjoyable? What platforms do they run on? Of those two platforms, what controllers do you like the best?

Answer those questions, and your solution is obvious.
     
Hawkeye_a
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Nov 12, 2004, 11:42 PM
 
hmmmm.......

Oh where to begin ?
PS2 vs XBox.....i wonder why you didnt include the GameCube in your evaluation, cause the PS2 is a bit dated and the XBox is just evil. but thats another discussion...

Oh your analysis of the XBox...

1. Disc read eroors.....nothings perfect. And as you pointed out....there's a new PS2 available.

2. The XBox does have better specs than the PS2 (but so does the GameCube for that matter). Specs dont mean shyte..... as a Mac user, havent you realized that ?

3. Microsoft and 'innovation' in the same sentence ? where have you done your reasearch my friend ? xboxisawesome.com ?(not a real site)
a. Hard drive and obvious ? lets see.... what do you need when you build a PC ? CPU, storage(harddrive), memory, disc drive, i/o. surprise surprise....the XBox is actually a PC(not an exageration).. some of my friends who do own the damn thing, only baught it cause it's cheaper than actually buying a PeeCee to run Linux. It's got Pentium3 an invidia card and a harddrive.
Oh just to point out..... The next Xbox will not have a Harddrive in it. And according to some reports will probably NOT be backwards compatible either..(unline the PS3 and Nintendo Revolution).
b. As i pointed out....the XBox is a PC. And as with any PC these days you can go online.... yayy !! XBox live .. apaprt from the rare few games on PCs, since when did you have to pay to play Quake 3 or Unreal Tournament online ? Online gaming has been around for almost a decade now...it's been free for the most part, and then comes Microsoft with a Subscription model to grab their blind customer's balls in a vice grip.
c. Yes the graphic on the XBox are better than the PS2... probably cause the XBox(and GameCube for that matter) came out an entire year later than the PS2.

Please, dont compare Microsoft to Apple, expecially with the XBox. It would be like says 'Windows' or 'internet explorer' is innovative. Apple is original in every sence of the word(as is Nintendo for that matter).

Microsoft took your average 733Mhz PC beefed it up, put it in an ugly box, with a crappy controller and adds on a subscription based online sysytem to con its customers into forking out even more cash than it's worth(it's been free on other PCs for quite some time now.).

What 'we' say about Macs is that we pay for awesome innovation and quality, cause of the care that goes into making the products. Microsoft rehashes an old idea and tries to sell it. There is no 'love' in that product.... look at the controller for heavens sake....looks like it was designed by a 50yr old guy whos never played a console game his entire life.

The fact is, the XBox aint all that 'innovative' inside or out. inside it's a PC...PCs have been around for some 30 years now(architecture). Outside it's a console... consoles have been sround since what the mid 80s ? Online gaming...i first got into it during the Unreal tournament and Quake 3 arena days.....and there were no subscriptions fees attached to it.

If it's that great as you claim, why do they sell it at a loss ? None of their competitors are doing that(and they seem to be selling more consoles than Microsoft anyway). I'll tell you why...... why did they licence WIndows for free ? why did they give Internet Explorer away for free ?..... just look at the state of those markets right now.....Apple the only consumer competitor for Operating Systems(that's actually responsible for innovation) is at a measly 2% market share. Internet explorer sucks... windows users know that, mac users know that ?...where's Netscape now ?

XBox has the same anti competitive marketing behind it.....Not to mention, no one would actually buy it if it were priced at it's cost anyway. Thats efficient engineering, operations and marketing for you. (sarcasm)

Sooo......
No the XBox is not 'innovative'....and no Microsoft is not pulling an 'Apple'...it never has.

IF you want stellar graphics, buy the latest PC out there, your get what an XBox is and then som at a bit higher price of course.

If you want console games....thing about what makes console games fun and worth it... it's never been about specs, dont let the xbox fanboys make you think it's important. It's never been the MHz or the number of polygons...well maybe to them it has (kinda like hardcore gamers in peecee land )

I suggest you consider the following when you try to decide on a console:
-Games available(most important..... Halo and Halo2 come on...you can play better FPSs on a PC. it's got a better controller(mouse and keyboard) and you dont have to pay subscription fees.)
- Controller.... quite important...it can make or break ur gaming experience. XBox controller sucks....and most Xbox users and other gamers agree as well.
-Pricing and Price. Microsoft's tactics and motive are just hostile and anticompetitive....unethical even. Bad for competition and bad for consumer's. Look at windows and internet explorer.
-And maybe Design. To me, both the XBox and PS2 look like something you'd see darth vader playing. I like the cube cause, it's small, poweful and it's got a very clean design. (and oh...did i mention the GameCube has the heart of a PowerPC and an Ati card ?)

In the end it boils down to what you care about...
Graphics, specs, Mhzs, polygons....the XBox was made for you.

Games library and backward compatibility, PS2.

Innovation, fewer but great games, great controller, great pricing, great design, from a company that ignited teh console market and actually cares about gaming..... Nintendo GameCube's for you.

Thats the way i made my decision..... and its worked great so far.

Cheers.
( Last edited by Hawkeye_a; Nov 13, 2004 at 12:02 AM. )
     
MAlan  (op)
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Nov 13, 2004, 01:24 AM
 
Hawkeye_a

You make a lot of good points. I totally agree that microsoft's anticompetitive practices make me sick.

But let's face facts about apple...they didn't invent the GUI (xerox parc) and they didn't invent the mouse. What they did do is put these technologies together in a product at a price point that could sell and they innovated in human interface design.

Hard drive based MP3 players were around before the iPod but the ipod is innovative because of its simplicity.

The controllers for the xbox sound like typical microsoft not paying attention to details. But the rest of the product and associated offerings sound solid to me. I don't pay attention to xbox fanboys...they don't sound like they have an original thought in their head.

When I started looking into this I said to myself 'I'm buying a PS2...I don't even want to consider the xbox because I don't want to support Microsoft.' But because I'm an open minded human I can't help but to consider a product like this on its own merits despite who makes it.

So yes it was 'obvious' for Microsoft to make a PC for a console instead of going for proprietary memory stick approach. Yes online gaming has been around for quite awhile but its the ease of use. I read a review of some games on ARS the other day and the guy basically said that the advantage of XBOX live over online gaming on a PC is that its relatively straight forward to use i.e. human interface is better.

This is exactly why I use macs. I agree specs shouldn't matter that much when it comes to consoles but here's the problem: the PS2 developers didn't know how to use the video memory properly when writing the code for those games in the beginning. Why is that? Because sony dropped the ball in giving them enough documentation in the beginning. That is a major mistake. In a hyper competitive market such as this they should have been more careful. Because of that people have the impression that the graphics can't be as good on the PS2 as the xbox but they can be if they are developed correctly. Xbox has a major advantage here because the PC game developers can use directX for developing on XBOX and PC. You can debate the pros and cons of directX as a technology I'm sure but the economics of developing these games for XBOX has to be better.

So to answer your question as why they sell it for a loss I'm a bit confused there. I thought Sony and Nintendo are still selling their consoles for a loss. I know for a fact they were selling them for a loss at launch.

I'm under no illusions that Microsoft has invented something original. You correctly point out that a 733 MHz PC is old technology indeed. But a computer with a 5 gig hardrive and 32 MB of memory was old technology at the time when the iPod came out too but that is exactly what the iPod was at its launch. Why was it innovative then? Because in the market it was entering it provided a much better experience to what was out there. The same can't be said for the xbox since the parity between the competition is much closer and more dependent on individual taste. However, in my estimation Microsoft has done something slightly different with the xbox than their other products. They have managed to make something that is easy to use for once even though they are still largely an evil corporation.

I'm not interested in a comparison to the XBox 2 and PS3 right now because that is not what I'm going to buy. I'm considering the products that are out there now on their own merits. Believe me PS2 has a lot going for it. I'm still pretty torn about the whole thing but I think I'm sticking with my decision to buy the xbox.
( Last edited by MAlan; Nov 13, 2004 at 01:32 AM. )
     
mitchell_pgh
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Nov 13, 2004, 01:38 AM
 
I shy away from all things Microsoft whenever possible. I own two things from Microsoft.

Microsoft Office
A Microsoft Mouse

I would either hold off for the next great thing, or pick up a PS2 or Gamecube... PS2 has a ton more games and the potential to let you upgrade your system to a PS3 in the future.

The Gamecube is simply cool...

Sure the Xbox might have what you are looking for, but remember that whenever you buy an xbox... you strengthen Microsofts hold on you.

Just my 2�
     
Hawkeye_a
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Nov 13, 2004, 02:38 AM
 
MAlan

I cant say for SONY, but im positive that Nintendo are not selling the GameCube at a loss. (Might be wrong due to currency fluctiations though).

So, for example, you pointed out that the iPod is not as innovative as people say it is. So then what set it apart from the pack and made it the phenomenon iti s today ?.... it's 'controller'(UI) maybe ? all harddisc based MP3 playes do the same thing...it's in the details, and attention to how, for what, and why people will actually use a device that sets it apaprt, and that...makes all the difference.

All other MP3 players are a 'solid package' as you put it...right ? So why would people buy a $300 iPod (20GB) when they could get a higher capacity player that does exactly the same thing ?
PCs are 'solid' products as well, that pretty much do the exac t same thing MAcs do, but yet we choose macs for a reason ? it has ben designed with attention to the way people will use it, efficiently to do the job it was meant to do without getting in the way. And it dosent require a below the cost price point to sell.

With the GUI and the mouse...thats another discussion all together. Xerox didnt want it, they were not going to sell it to consumers, which is why they traded the ideas to Steve for stock in Apple. Microsoft on the other hand ripped the code outrehashed the idea and sold it for pennies...cause there were no R&D costs for them to bear.

And with XBox, PS2 and Gamecube...theyre all 'solid' consoles. they all do the same thing... but some do it better than others, and i dont see anything in the XBox , in any category that sets it apart from SONY or Nintendo.
-Technology....rehashed peecees nothing innovative in HID (human interface design) or graphics technology...polygons just like the PS2 and GameCube.
-Pricing...anti-competitive. Peecee users dug their graves when they sold out to using wondows....and they're still paying. I for one dont want to see a 'fun' and 'entertainment' industry go down that path.
-Design... Ugly, both to the eyes and to use, t hanks to the size and controller.
-Games... if it wasnt for Microsoft buying out development studios, they wouldnt have been able to convince developers to come out with games and get the ball rolling. typical microsoft...keep throwing money at the problem if it cant sell itself.
-DirectX....properitary as well.
-Library...smaller than PS2


And XBox live.... theyre trying to bait their customers now as well cause there are so few actually using that feature.they give it away for free(like windows and IE), then if and when the competitors fade away they jack up the prices on an overall inferior product.

I cant in right conscience get myself to buy a product that:
-hasnt been designed to satisfy it's purpose. (the controller is just an example)
-is so inefficiently designed that it has to sell at below production costs.
-is purposely priced below cost to try and wipe out the industry veterans and do away with the competition all together.

If i surcum to bying an XBox i am not only doing myself a disservice by buying a badly designed product, but id be doing the gaming community a disservice as well, because im buying an over all inefficient product, anti-competitively priced that's sole purpose is not gaming, but dominating yet another industry.

To sum it up.... the Xbox is a 'console' designed for nerds by nerds. And the only defence they have are it's specs.

P.S.>> which is pretty much why i dont buy or use a PC or a MS product auther than my Microsoft Mouse. By buying Apple products i ensure that they can continue to innovate and make products that are leaps and bounds better than their competitors. Which is why i only own the Nintendo GameCube.
     
Alezone
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Nov 13, 2004, 02:56 AM
 
is it wrong for a die hard mac fan to buy an xbox?






YES.
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Randman
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Nov 13, 2004, 04:06 AM
 
I've never owned a PC, though I do have Office 2004 and VPC on my Macs. Last year, I ranted about the xboxes and was looking a a ps2. Instead, my g/f got me a sweet modded XBox with two wireless controllers and I've not looked back.
Gaming is great, even better on a PS2 which my Dad, yes my retired Dad, picked up for the Ratchet & Clank system.
Now, he's even looking into an XBox so we can play some EA games on Live.
Halo and Halo2 rock, and M$ still loses money on each game console sold.

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Lancer409
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Nov 13, 2004, 04:37 AM
 
Originally posted by willed:
It is morally and theologically wrong. I'm sorry.

I don't own either console, but it does seem that the PS2 has more must-have games. But hey, it doesn't really matter. As the Canadian Star-Wars guy pointed out recently, there are several games for each platform worth buying the system for. For every GTA San Andreas there is often a Halo 2 So enjoy.

i'm glad you're joking .. besides .. didnt steve jobs say back in '97 that as far as he's concerned, the grudge between apple and microsoft is over? .. hehe ... die hards cant put down that Haterade

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Nov 13, 2004, 08:41 AM
 
I'm a diehard mac fan! I got an xbox 2 years ago, and it still doesn't get that much usage. I figured if I didn't like it I could always turn it into a linux machine, but I still haven't done that.

On the other hand, a year later I got a gamecube and love it Thus, the xbox is seldom ever used but the gamecube is every time I find right for it
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Nov 13, 2004, 09:17 AM
 
It matters most what games you like. If you're a fan of the 3G formula which has infected gaming in recent years (Graphics, Guns, and Girls = Good) then the XBox is right up your alley. If you want innovation where it matters -the games themselves- then PS2 and GameCube remain better choices, with a slight edge going to the GameCube. If you're an RPG fan, then you're pretty much stuck with the PS2, though the GameCube has one or two that you might want to consider.
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Nov 13, 2004, 09:31 AM
 
I never thought I'd be interested in an XBox but I want to play Halo 2 so bad and seriously every guy on my campus is going crazy with it right now. It would be a helluva lot of fun to jump on that bandwagon. But is spending $200 worth it for one game? Will there be any other titles out there I want? I'm starting to think twice about it simply because I'm afraid it's a waste for the amount I will use it. Sure, I'll play the crap out of Halo 2, but if I am not even sure that I'll play something else, what's the point?
     
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Nov 13, 2004, 10:14 AM
 
Originally posted by willed:
It is morally and theologically wrong. I'm sorry.


I'd say it's ethically wrong.

-t
     
legacyb4
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Nov 13, 2004, 12:00 PM
 
Hear hear!

Why February? Did I just miss an announcement of another delay?

Originally posted by TETENAL:
I bought a PS2 because it was the only right thing to do. I'm not 100% happy with the graphics (aliasing), but in February I will get GT4 and be happy!
     
ajprice
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Nov 13, 2004, 12:49 PM
 
If it is wrong to have a Microsoft Xbox, isn't it just as wrong for a maccite to have a SONY Playstation???

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
PJW
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Nov 13, 2004, 01:06 PM
 
You came to the wrong place if you wanted a rational discussion on the pros and cons of the Xbox. I'll try to help you as best I can.

I've had an Xbox since launch, and I actually didn't play it much to begin with, other than Halo LAN matches. There wasn't much good out for it. It was kinda like the launch year of PS2. There was just a whole lot of crap.

Now, though, I'm playing it much more often. After the first year, the Xbox was definitely picking up speed and starting to see some quality titles. My most favorite games have been Chronicles of Riddick, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow, Crimson Skies and the Grand Theft Auto Double Pack. Right now, my time is being completely consumed by Halo 2.

The system does have its advantages. Number one is Xbox Live. I know people whine about having to pay for it, but it's only $50 a year and it provides an excellent service. Microsoft is the only company that has yet provided a working solution for online console gameplay, and they've done a 5 star job. With games like Halo 2, you can form clans with your buddies, and if you get big enough you can actually start to promote each other to different ranks based on your performance in games. The built-in friends list is nice as well, especially in Xbox Live Aware games. It's very easy to keep track of your friends and to start a quick game.

I think the second advantage is its hardware. While having the best hardware doesn't always equal the best games, it does mean that all the multi-console games look the best on the Xbox. They just have a nice polish that is lacking in the other systems, which is why I buy all my multi-console games for the Xbox. For example, Burnout 3 is definitely better looking on the Xbox than on the PS2. Put that together with the fact that Burnout 3's online component works best with Xbox Live, and you've got yourself a winning combination.

There are other things I like about it as well. I like the fact that it plays DVDs, I like the hard drive and I like the HDTV support. I worried about my purchase a little when I first bought it, but now I'm feel very good about it.

I'm not going to say the system doesn't have its downsides. For example, if you're an RPG fan, then the Xbox is not for you. I also wish it had better first-party games like the stuff from Nintendo. While I don't like all of Nintendo's games, I do admire the amount of work and care that is put into them.

It really just comes down to what games you want to play. You want to play Halo 2? Get an Xbox. You want to play Metroid Prime 2? Get a Gamecube. You want to play GTA: San Andreas? Get a PS2. Get the system that has the games you want.

On a final note, I don't like being called a corporate tool just because I own an Xbox. I believe somebody on here referred to Xbox Live customers as having their "balls in a vice grip." Trust me, my balls are not gripped in any vice. I merely made a choice as a consumer. I did not choose to support the devil buy buying an Xbox, and I don't think anyone else did either.

And as long as we're going to talk about unethical business behavior, how about we talk about Sony's membership in the RIAA? How about Nintendo's oppressive business tactics back in the 80s, or their ties to the Yakuza? You guys act like Microsoft is the only evil company to have ever existed. I've got news for you: none of these companies care about us. They are completely dedicated to screwing us out of as much money as possible with a big smile on their faces. If you think that somehow Nintendo genuinely cares about you as a human being, then you're a big a corporate tool as I allegedly am for buying an Xbox.

Edit: Also, I don't know what Xbox controller you guys are referring to, but I have a feeling that it's the original large one. Just to let you, there is new one that is much smaller and is a much better controller.

Originally posted by MAlan:
Listen...I want to buy an xbox. I have spent the last month comparing the PS2 and xbox and have come out on the side of the xbox for the following reasons.

1. Disk read errors on PS2 and xbox are rampant but the anecdotal evidence seems to show that the PS2 is much worse in this regard (yes they just released a new version of the PS2 so this argument might be a moot point now)

2. It is a fact that the xbox has better hardware specs than the PS2.

3. It seems to me that Microsoft is the actual innovator in this space for a change (I never thought I'd say that). My arguments for that are supported below.
a. Microsoft did a very obvious thing they put a hard drive in there. Why didn't sony do that. I hate the idea of buying all these memory cards (yeah I know if I don't play that many games I'll only need the one but still).
b. xbox live from what I hear is a very good online experience despite the fact that it costs so much to subscribe to.
c. The graphics on most games on the posts that I read seem to be better than the PS2 with a couple of exceptions.

Where I'm coming out on this is that Microsoft seems to be pulling an Apple with the xbox. They have created a better product for nominally more money. They have a better online experience for more money but you get what you pay for...isn't that what we always say about macs.

Bottom line. I hate to admit it but I admire what microsoft has done with the xbox even though I despise their business practices...even when it comes to the xbox. Yes it makes me sick that they can bleed money until they win in any given market. At least they are actually contributing something to the state of the art in this space while using the same old business tricks.

I'd like to hear what others think...am I way off the mark here or is my point somewhat valid?
( Last edited by PJW; Nov 13, 2004 at 01:23 PM. )
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i_rooster
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Nov 13, 2004, 02:18 PM
 
xbox eis great and everytone is buoing it becsanue of hello 2, now that sayds that it sis a good procudt with one good applocashun, but theya have to keep up with mmore innobatibe protdunts continisly. i ythink m8crosoft for a change hads a winner proitduct tidat, in the ehwit hands now. i want and xobvix as well. buthew ai cant aopopfd it. i think i will wait for a few monthans and buy oit pff the enay. letes us just be fait cisrmers and give mocrosoft a roind og applouthase!

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Nov 13, 2004, 02:25 PM
 
It is not wrong per se, we all have personal choice. I personally have no interest.

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Nov 13, 2004, 02:31 PM
 
Go Microsoft!
     
storer
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Nov 13, 2004, 04:29 PM
 
Originally posted by i_rooster:
xbox eis great and everytone is buoing it becsanue of hello 2, now that sayds that it sis a good procudt with one good applocashun, but theya have to keep up with mmore innobatibe protdunts continisly. i ythink m8crosoft for a change hads a winner proitduct tidat, in the ehwit hands now. i want and xobvix as well. buthew ai cant aopopfd it. i think i will wait for a few monthans and buy oit pff the enay. letes us just be fait cisrmers and give mocrosoft a roind og applouthase!
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DeathMan
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Nov 13, 2004, 04:44 PM
 
I'd like to get an XBox too. I'm die hard anti-MS, and I think they suXor big time, but the fact that I can get MAME running along with most other systems emulated on an XBox makes it very attractive to me. Halo is a fun game, supposedly Halo 2 is good. I like Fusion Frenzy for the family, and I'm sure there are other good games (LOTR Series, stuff like that). It seems like the really good game devs are realizing that its smart to release for multiple systems, and let the consoles battle it out on the spec front.

So, I'd probably get an XBox, especially if you're leaning that way anyway. Don't forget about MAME though.
     
Kenneth
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Nov 13, 2004, 04:57 PM
 
well.. I didn't investigate both consoles (PS2 and XBox) that much, but just watching which one people get, the XBox won. Living in a dorm, most freshmen picked the XBox over PS2.

For myself, I don't own any console yet.. but I rather goto the SONY-land, not because the XBox has a Microsoft badge.. but I rather get a gaming PC to play great games although building a true gaming PC is darn pricy... lastly, I'm not a Halo-fan.
     
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Nov 13, 2004, 05:06 PM
 
If I think something is good, and it is affordable, I buy it. As was the case with my Xbox purchase.

I really don't understand the mac "diehardness" or whatever you want to call it. The only thing that I really care about is the OS and developer stuff. If MS would get a good OS and good developer stuff, I would switch. Apple might lead in design, but they certainly don't do any favors by charging a premium for it.
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lavar78
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Nov 13, 2004, 05:28 PM
 
Originally posted by PJW:
Also, I don't know what Xbox controller you guys are referring to, but I have a feeling that it's the original large one. Just to let you, there is new one that is much smaller and is a much better controller.
The first Xbox controller is the worst controller ever made. The small one is a vast improvement (how could it not be?), but it still pales in comparison to the PS2 and GCN controllers.

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Nov 13, 2004, 05:54 PM
 
Personally, I think the first is better than the second. The placement of the white/black buttons on the second (S) controller is weird. Ever play a game and end up having the views or menus accidentally switch/come up because you hit them by accident?
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MAlan  (op)
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Nov 13, 2004, 10:33 PM
 
I'd like to just respond to one thing you say about the ipod below. I did not intend to convey the fact that the iPod is 'not as innovative as people say it is' I believe the ipod to be every bit as innovative as people say it is. The distinction that I was making was simply that you do not have to invent something to innovate.

I appreciate the lively discussion about this topic. I want to ask one question about RPGs. People are saying that xbox is not good for RPGs. Is that to say there aren't any? I'm not looking for RPGs for now but down the line I may want to try one.

Originally posted by Hawkeye_a:
MAlan

I cant say for SONY, but im positive that Nintendo are not selling the GameCube at a loss. (Might be wrong due to currency fluctiations though).

So, for example, you pointed out that the iPod is not as innovative as people say it is. So then what set it apart from the pack and made it the phenomenon iti s today ?.... it's 'controller'(UI) maybe ? all harddisc based MP3 playes do the same thing...it's in the details, and attention to how, for what, and why people will actually use a device that sets it apaprt, and that...makes all the difference.

All other MP3 players are a 'solid package' as you put it...right ? So why would people buy a $300 iPod (20GB) when they could get a higher capacity player that does exactly the same thing ?
PCs are 'solid' products as well, that pretty much do the exac t same thing MAcs do, but yet we choose macs for a reason ? it has ben designed with attention to the way people will use it, efficiently to do the job it was meant to do without getting in the way. And it dosent require a below the cost price point to sell.

With the GUI and the mouse...thats another discussion all together. Xerox didnt want it, they were not going to sell it to consumers, which is why they traded the ideas to Steve for stock in Apple. Microsoft on the other hand ripped the code outrehashed the idea and sold it for pennies...cause there were no R&D costs for them to bear.

And with XBox, PS2 and Gamecube...theyre all 'solid' consoles. they all do the same thing... but some do it better than others, and i dont see anything in the XBox , in any category that sets it apart from SONY or Nintendo.
-Technology....rehashed peecees nothing innovative in HID (human interface design) or graphics technology...polygons just like the PS2 and GameCube.
-Pricing...anti-competitive. Peecee users dug their graves when they sold out to using wondows....and they're still paying. I for one dont want to see a 'fun' and 'entertainment' industry go down that path.
-Design... Ugly, both to the eyes and to use, t hanks to the size and controller.
-Games... if it wasnt for Microsoft buying out development studios, they wouldnt have been able to convince developers to come out with games and get the ball rolling. typical microsoft...keep throwing money at the problem if it cant sell itself.
-DirectX....properitary as well.
-Library...smaller than PS2


And XBox live.... theyre trying to bait their customers now as well cause there are so few actually using that feature.they give it away for free(like windows and IE), then if and when the competitors fade away they jack up the prices on an overall inferior product.

I cant in right conscience get myself to buy a product that:
-hasnt been designed to satisfy it's purpose. (the controller is just an example)
-is so inefficiently designed that it has to sell at below production costs.
-is purposely priced below cost to try and wipe out the industry veterans and do away with the competition all together.

If i surcum to bying an XBox i am not only doing myself a disservice by buying a badly designed product, but id be doing the gaming community a disservice as well, because im buying an over all inefficient product, anti-competitively priced that's sole purpose is not gaming, but dominating yet another industry.

To sum it up.... the Xbox is a 'console' designed for nerds by nerds. And the only defence they have are it's specs.

P.S.>> which is pretty much why i dont buy or use a PC or a MS product auther than my Microsoft Mouse. By buying Apple products i ensure that they can continue to innovate and make products that are leaps and bounds better than their competitors. Which is why i only own the Nintendo GameCube.
     
lavar78
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Nov 13, 2004, 10:40 PM
 
Are there any Xbox RPGs? Yes.

Any of note? No, not really. Fable is probably the only contender, but it looks like it hasn't lived up to the hype. I haven't played it though.

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Luca Rescigno
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Nov 13, 2004, 10:56 PM
 
Originally posted by Link:
Personally, I think the first is better than the second. The placement of the white/black buttons on the second (S) controller is weird. Ever play a game and end up having the views or menus accidentally switch/come up because you hit them by accident?
If you get used to one, the other sucks. Personally, I prefer scrunching my thumb to hit the little black and white buttons rather than stretching it, but that's just me. I also like having sufficient muscle power to lift the S controller. And the old controller's diagonal button layout (rather than the simple diamond-shaped one) messes me up all the time.

Did you know the official Microsoft part number for the original controller is "The Duke"?

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PJW
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Nov 14, 2004, 12:50 AM
 
Originally posted by lavar78:
The first Xbox controller is the worst controller ever made. The small one is a vast improvement (how could it not be?), but it still pales in comparison to the PS2 and GCN controllers.
Meh. Too each his own. Personally, I can't stand the Dual Shock's shoulder buttons, and the Gamecube controller looks like it was designed by a Fisher Price employee on acid.
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macaddict0001
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Nov 14, 2004, 01:00 AM
 
Originally posted by PJW:
Meh. Too each his own. Personally, I can't stand the Dual Shock's shoulder buttons, and the Gamecube controller looks like it was designed by a Fisher Price employee on acid.
The xbox and gamecube controllers are almost the same in button layout. And I definitly agree with the dualshock controller statement.
     
King Bob On The Cob
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Nov 14, 2004, 01:22 AM
 
Originally posted by macaddict0001:
The xbox and gamecube controllers are almost the same in button layout. And I definitly agree with the dualshock controller statement.
Um... No.
GameCube has 4 buttons on it's face, two sticks, and 4-way pad, and three on top.
XBox has 6 buttons on it's face, two sticks, and two more buttons on top.
Not to mention that the sticks are different purposes, and the buttons on the face are different in proportion.
     
macaddict0001
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Nov 14, 2004, 01:43 AM
 
Originally posted by King Bob On The Cob:
Um... No.
GameCube has 4 buttons on it's face, two sticks, and 4-way pad, and three on top.
XBox has 6 buttons on it's face, two sticks, and two more buttons on top.
Not to mention that the sticks are different purposes, and the buttons on the face are different in proportion.
I consider that similar.
     
the_glassman
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Nov 14, 2004, 01:53 AM
 
For every XBox that Microsoft sells, they lose money! So no it's not wrong to be a Mac fan and make Microsoft lose money.
It's the superior system out right now, and I think the controller is 10 times better than the crap Nintendo or Sony has.
     
goMac
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Nov 14, 2004, 05:05 AM
 
I was looking at XBox but I couldn't justify buying it for one game (Halo 2). So, I bought a GameCube instead. It's a very nice system, but there is a small lack of games. I'm hoping it picks up next year.
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Hawkeye_a
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Nov 14, 2004, 11:33 AM
 


notice how the XBox fans here have the same recouring reason for prefering the XBox:
-it's 'superior' technical specs. (as predicted)
-it's amazing price point. (which is criminal imo...cause they are doing away with the competition which will be inevitably bad for consumers.)

An analogy would be a rich candidate paying voters to vote for him, while the poorer candidate, although having better policies for the people cant afford to bribe them and therefore looses cause the people cant see what's actually going on. Theyre happy cause they got a good deal at the time... but will definately suffer in the long run.

Not surprisingly we have seen the same company do the exact same thing before, and we have witnessed the reprocussions, yet some people refuse to learn from that experience.

They did the same with windows and IE, and we all saw what happened. but i guess some ppl never learn. I guess some people's constitutions are weeker than others. Oh well.

Cheers.

PS>> yes, i know these companies are doing it for the money. it's not one comapny is good and the other is bad. it's never black and white. But it's infinetely clear which company is better (as far as products, business practices,etc) than the other. you cant dispute that.
( Last edited by Hawkeye_a; Nov 14, 2004 at 11:45 AM. )
     
PJW
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Nov 14, 2004, 12:30 PM
 
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a:


notice how the XBox fans here have the same recouring reason for prefering the XBox:
-it's 'superior' technical specs. (as predicted)
-it's amazing price point. (which is criminal imo...cause they are doing away with the competition which will be inevitably bad for consumers.)

An analogy would be a rich candidate paying voters to vote for him, while the poorer candidate, although having better policies for the people cant afford to bribe them and therefore looses cause the people cant see what's actually going on. Theyre happy cause they got a good deal at the time... but will definately suffer in the long run.

Not surprisingly we have seen the same company do the exact same thing before, and we have witnessed the reprocussions, yet some people refuse to learn from that experience.

They did the same with windows and IE, and we all saw what happened. but i guess some ppl never learn. I guess some people's constitutions are weeker than others. Oh well.

Cheers.

PS>> yes, i know these companies are doing it for the money. it's not one comapny is good and the other is bad. it's never black and white. But it's infinetely clear which company is better (as far as products, business practices,etc) than the other. you cant dispute that.


Gosh, Hawkeye, you're such a rebel. I wish I had a strong will like you, but apparently I'm just a spineless, yellow-bellied coward for buying the Xbox. Someone please save me from myself!

<end sarcasm>

Will you give it a rest? I don't know if you're trying to change anyone's mind here, but saying that someone has a weak constitution because they don't agree with you is not a good way of doing it.
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Hawkeye_a
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Nov 14, 2004, 12:32 PM
 
Originally posted by PJW:


Gosh, Hawkeye, you're such a rebel. I wish I had a strong will like you, but apparently I'm just a spineless, yellow-bellied coward for buying the Xbox. Someone please save me from myself!

<end sarcasm>

Will you give it a rest? I don't know if you're trying to change anyone's mind here, but saying that someone has a weak constitution because they don't agree with you is not a good way of doing it.
Yea, it's just gaming consoles i guess. probably just a bit annoyed to see people make the same mistakes over and over again. Ugh...oh well. moving along....
     
Luca Rescigno
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Nov 14, 2004, 01:18 PM
 
The GameCube has tons of great games! They're just not the same genre as on the XBox. The XBox generally has more adult-oriented games, like first person shooters and stuff, while the GameCube is sometimes said to have "kiddy" games. The GameCube also has a lot more adventure games than the XBox. Here are my must-haves for the GameCube:

Star Wars: Rogue Leader
Super Smash Brothers Melee
Legend Of Zelda: Wind Waker
Metroid Prime
Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem
Soul Calibur 2

That's a good variety. GC has always been weak in the action game genre, but Rogue Leader there is super fun. It'll be over pretty quick, but there are lots of extra things to unlock. Super Smash Brothers is insanely fun if you have a big group of people. Wind Waker and Metroid Prime are classic adventure games. I played through MP about a year ago and am still working on Wind Waker. Wind Waker especially has a huge world, tons to explore, and really cool graphics (even though they look dumb at first glance). The puzzles are not too hard, which is a good thing for me. Eternal Darkness is another adventure style game but this one is also really scary. Far better than Resident Evil if you're into the horror games. And Soul Calibur 2 is pretty campy, but overall it's a fun weapons-based fighting game.

There are some others I've tried... I found F-zero GX and Viewtiful Joe to be too difficult to complete, although I did enjoy Viewtiful Joe for the time I played it. Super Monkey Ball 2 is really fun and also extremely evil (as in, the game developers take pleasure in watching the gamers suffer). Time Splitters 2 is a first person shooter that looks a lot like Goldeneye on the surface, but I really don't like it much. Using dual analog controls on the GameCube just doesn't feel right somehow.

Anyway, there are plenty of great GameCube games out, you just have to accept that the different consoles will have different strengths and weaknesses.

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Nov 14, 2004, 03:10 PM
 
Buy whatever the **** you want.
     
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Nov 14, 2004, 03:19 PM
 
It's wrong not because it's MS, but because HALO drove the Xbox, and HALO is made by Bungie, and Bungie are f***king sellouts to their (once) loyal Mac users.

F Bungie.
     
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Nov 14, 2004, 03:24 PM
 
Yes, there are really funny games besides the Nintendo ones, Sega�s Soccer Slam is sooo nice
     
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Nov 14, 2004, 05:03 PM
 
The answer is no, but apparently it is not allowed for a Nintendo user to buy any other system.
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