[lamewing]

Hey folks,
I just got a fantastic deal from my local CompUSA store. They sold me a dual 1.8 for the price advertised on the Apple Developers site...$1599.00. That is a $400.00 savings.

All sounds great right? Well, I am at home now having second thoughts. The machine has been unopened and is currently sitting in my spare bedroom. It looks like the thing is going back. Why return the Powermac when I got it a such a great price?

I do computer gaming, or at least I used to until my current PC became "very old". I would like to get back into it and now I am starting to think I should just buy a gaming PC (or build another one) and then get a mac mini for my Apple needs (better said...wants).

I really have no needs for an Apple computer over a PC. I have been in love with Apple since my first Apple IIe, but I have yet to keep a Mac for very long due to the PC gaming bug I have.

What do you folks think? Keep the Dually 1.8 or get (or build) a nice gaming PC and buy a mini for my iPod/air tunes wants?

Thanks for your help.

[Mafia]

everyone uses this gaming agrument against mac but most new popular games (besides half life) are or will be ported to mac. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/se...546080-9523816
games play on the mac!?!?

[MORT A POTTY]

keep it you fool!

[lamewing]

Mafia,
I think you are mistaking me for a Troll. Please reread my post. I am not everyone and I am not "using the same old argument" against the Mac platform. I believe I said I have nothing but good feelings towards Apple Computer, Inc. since the early 80's. I also said I was still interested in a solution where I would buy (or build) a PC and also have a Mac mini to handle day to day issues.

While it's true that games do come to the Mac side (I am playing WoW now and it was a dual developed game - thanks Blizzard!!!) not all the games I play make it to the Mac side.

Another concern is cost. While I did get this at a very fair price, I am questioning the overall cost, which includes upgrades. A nice Athlon 64 3500 system can be built for less than a grand. Future CPU and video card upgrades on the PC side are much cheaper. The same video card for a Mac can easily be more than the PC side. Sadly some of the video boards don't make it to the PC side. I am really confused that Nvidia didn't make the 6600/6600GT videocard for the Mac. A FAST card, but much cheaper than the 6800GT.

My point was this...If I have a PC for pure gaming, then my requirements for the Mac are MUCH MUCH less than if I need a Mac to game on. In this case, a little mini would be a wonderful solution.

I didn't meant to step on toes by posting here. Heck, I was afraid I might get flamed unecessarily, but I wanted the advice of the Mac folks here.

Joe

[Mafia]

Originally posted by lamewing:
Mafia,
I think you are mistaking me for a Troll. Please reread my post. I am not everyone and I am not "using the same old argument" against the Mac platform. I believe I said I have nothing but good feelings towards Apple Computer, Inc. since the early 80's. I also said I was still interested in a solution where I would buy (or build) a PC and also have a Mac mini to handle day to day issues.

While it's true that games do come to the Mac side (I am playing WoW now and it was a dual developed game - thanks Blizzard!!!) not all the games I play make it to the Mac side.

Another concern is cost. While I did get this at a very fair price, I am questioning the overall cost, which includes upgrades. A nice Athlon 64 3500 system can be built for less than a grand. Future CPU and video card upgrades on the PC side are much cheaper. The same video card for a Mac can easily be more than the PC side. Sadly some of the video boards don't make it to the PC side. I am really confused that Nvidia didn't make the 6600/6600GT videocard for the Mac. A FAST card, but much cheaper than the 6800GT.

My point was this...If I have a PC for pure gaming, then my requirements for the Mac are MUCH MUCH less than if I need a Mac to game on. In this case, a little mini would be a wonderful solution.

I didn't meant to step on toes by posting here. Heck, I was afraid I might get flamed unecessarily, but I wanted the advice of the Mac folks here.

Joe

i was giving advice based on your post. yes you can build a amd system for cheaper but you're gonna upgrade it in a year or so when with the powermac will last you ATLEAST 2 years with maybe a ram and gpu(considering you prolly got the 5200). so if you want to play half life and ultima online or one of those other WHACKY PC games build the pc. i have a cheap pc i built for 350 dollars and i use it to create games but it does aight with new games maybe this is an option you would want to take. but i don't play games on the windows i play em on my mac.

[Big Mac]

You don't seem to need much advice from any of us, but in case you sincerely want an opinion I'll keep it short and sweet. The Power Mac you bought is a terrific machine, but the Mac is not a good gaming platform. If you're serious about gaming, get a new PC. Otherwise, Welcome to Macintosh.

[PHoynak]

If you really like games get an Xbox. You will fall in love with the Mac in no time and will never look back.

[lamewing]

Mafia, you didn't give any advice. You merely made a statement that "everybody" uses that argument.

Big Mac, if I didn't want your opinions, I wouldn't have asked for them. I am hoping that someone can confirm or deny my understanding of the situation. If you folks know something I don't, then I would want to hear your viewpoints.

PHoynak, I have no desire to get an xbox. While it is a fine console, the games it plays are mostly action/adventure/sports games. I tried the Xbox route so I could play first person shooters and while it did run them, they didn't meet up to PC standards...obviously because the xbox uses a PIII running around 700Mhz or so.

It was mentioned that I probably got a 5200 and that is correct. THAT is my biggest concern. for about 700 less I can get an Athlon system with a Nvidia 6800GT GPU. That is a BIG differnce is video cards! Now, I am curious how much of a differnce those dual procs will make.

My game of choice is World of Warcraft. I have searched high-and-low for info regarding peoples' experiences running WoW on the Mac side. There is much info, but nothing concrete due to lack of info such as resolutions, prcos, time of day, server load, etc. I would really like to know how well Wow runs on a Mac. The folks at CompUSA have it loaded on the dual 2.0 but the network firewall will not let it reach the Blizzard servers. I asked the folks at the Apple store and they said they didn't want to let me load WoW on their system to test it out. Hmmmm....

I guess I just need to get the Mac mini and build my PC desktop.

[discotronic]

I would rather play games on a computer than an Xbox. A keyboard and mouse is the true way to play an FPS.

As for giving up the G5 and getting a PC plus a mini I would say go for it. If you don't need the power that the G5 offers and would like to play games you would probably be better off.

Personally....I wouldn't take 3 AMD whatevers for 1 dual G5. Good luck in your decision. I know it can't be easy

[Mafia]

Originally posted by lamewing:
Mafia, you didn't give any advice. You merely made a statement that "everybody" uses that argument.

yes i did say that but i also commented on the amount of games that are being ported to mac os x. world of warcraft plays fine on a mac to my understanding. i've played in on my brothers powerbook a few times with no issues. i think the main issues are with blizzard and not the operating system.

[Olorin]

There are more games for the PC than Mac no questions asked. I suppose you should check to see if the games you are planning on playing are available for the Mac OS. If they are I see no reason to get rid of the G5. The G5 is a pretty fast machine being dual and all. For serious gaming you probably should stick a 9800 in it though. One nice thing about gaming on a dual CPU system is that you can play your own music without a performance hit. You can minimize the game to check email or respond to an IM or render a quick filter in photoshop. The G5 is a much better system than any 700 dollar PC. Yet, I suppose if your only purpose is to play games and those games aren't made for apple, well then not much use for a G5.

One reason people are acting is little bitchy toward you is probably just cause they are jealous and wish they could have gotten such a good deal on a G5. If anything don't return it to compusa sell in on ebay and make a profit.

[MORT A POTTY]

if you're going to be doing gaming, why the hell would you get a 9800 for a G5? X800XT is by far the best option.

[lamewing]

Originally posted by Mafia:
yes i did say that but i also commented on the amount of games that are being ported to mac os x. world of warcraft plays fine on a mac to my understanding. i've played in on my brothers powerbook a few times with no issues. i think the main issues are with blizzard and not the operating system.

Mafia, for some reason I couldn't/didn't see your second post. My apologies for jumping on you. Had I seen your second post my response would have been different.

I have a favor for you. You said you could play WoW on the powerbook. Could you give the specs of the powerbook, resolution, framerate (CRTL-R or equivilant on the Mac)? I am curious how it would play on a powerbook.

Thank you.

[lamewing]

Originally posted by Olorin:
There are more games for the PC than Mac no questions asked. I suppose you should check to see if the games you are planning on playing are available for the Mac OS. If they are I see no reason to get rid of the G5. The G5 is a pretty fast machine being dual and all. For serious gaming you probably should stick a 9800 in it though. One nice thing about gaming on a dual CPU system is that you can play your own music without a performance hit. You can minimize the game to check email or respond to an IM or render a quick filter in photoshop. The G5 is a much better system than any 700 dollar PC. Yet, I suppose if your only purpose is to play games and those games aren't made for apple, well then not much use for a G5.

One reason people are acting is little bitchy toward you is probably just cause they are jealous and wish they could have gotten such a good deal on a G5. If anything don't return it to compusa sell in on ebay and make a profit.

The music issue is something I have noticed on my wife's PC. She cannot play music and run WoW at the same time. We have to hook up the ipod to our speakers....Sony SAVA-7 with dual inputs (I wish Sony still sold them). That was the reason I was looking at the mini....as a music machine/web browswer/email client/etc.

I have thought about the ebay route, but with ebay listing fees, final value fees, paypal fees, the profit is pretty much gone out the window.

I think I will let the machine sit in the bedroom a couple of days instead of making the decision right off the bat.

[zwiebel_]

I too have a gaming PC, which I build for a mere 350 dollars, just for fun. Now, it sits idle most of the time. My trusty QS is on 24/7.
Yeah, if you are a heavy gamer, by all means, get a PC, and hook a Mac Mini up via a good KVM switch.My setup (I have the MiniView, CS-102U with USB, Belkin?) works like a charm.

[buffalolee]

Keep PowerMac if you want the speed and power.

Buy the iMac G5 if you want web browsing, e-mail, word processing, etc.

Buy the Mac mini if you have your own keyboard, mouse, display, etc.

[PointBlank]

The mac will never be a competitive gaming platform while it has such a small market share in comparison to the PC. If you are heavily into gaming, then you are best sticking with the PC in my opinion.

[KS-Jayhawk]

Lamewing - do you have a DV video camera? Think of future time lost with renderings of a mini compared to a power mac!

[greenmeanie]

build a PC for gaming there all made for it anyways.

a MAC just dosnt have the games out there on the shelf but i dont think they build there systems for games anyways.

[lamewing]

Originally posted by greenmeanie:
build a PC for gaming there all made for it anyways.

a MAC just dosnt have the games out there on the shelf but i dont think they build there systems for games anyways.

I agree that the Mac really isn't built for gaming; not that it doesn't run some of the better game quiet well. I think Apple really screwed the pooch by pushing away game developers back in the 80's when the Mac was first introduced. Apple wanted to be seen as a "real" computer and not a toy. That action, 2 decades ago, really cost them. One of the biggest problems is that the Mac platform has to rely solely on OpenGL, while the PC can do OpenGL and DirectX.

I really thought hard about this situation. The ONLY time I need extra processing power is for games and SETI (which doesn't really justify the cost). Otherwise, I only do web browsing, email, newsgroups, iTunes, etc.

So...I took it back and was given a refund. Today I am ordering a Mac mini with an airport cart and the airport express device as well. This will give me the opportunity to use OS X for the next few months and to truly see if I NEED a faster machine. If I do, and the wife approves , I will go back and buy a full desktop and relegate the mini to set-top box status.

Thanks for all the help.

Joe

[Mafia]

Originally posted by lamewing:
Mafia, for some reason I couldn't/didn't see your second post. My apologies for jumping on you. Had I seen your second post my response would have been different.

I have a favor for you. You said you could play WoW on the powerbook. Could you give the specs of the powerbook, resolution, framerate (CRTL-R or equivilant on the Mac)? I am curious how it would play on a powerbook.

Thank you.

i don't have framerate but it was a 1.5ghz with resolution was 1280 by 854, 1 gig of ram, ati radeon 9700 m video card.
ran alright, i'd get the framerate for you but he is gone.

[MORT A POTTY]

they did a lot of things in the early days. DirextX wasn't even around then.

that's not why the Mac is so marginal in terms of games (or anything else really)

THAT started when steve was outsted from the company (after the record profits and whatnot) the Amelio era really screwed them and we're still seeing the effects of this today.

[lamewing]

Originally posted by MORT A POTTY:
they did a lot of things in the early days. DirextX wasn't even around then.

that's not why the Mac is so marginal in terms of games (or anything else really)

THAT started when steve was outsted from the company (after the record profits and whatnot) the Amelio era really screwed them and we're still seeing the effects of this today.

I was around back then, I never stated that Direct X was around before Win95. If I gave that impression, my mistake.

I disagree, Apple clearly pushed the game developers away by pushing its status as a "work" machine and not a gaming computer, but yes, Amelio really did his best to run Apple into the ground.

In reading the history of Apple computer, my biggest disbelief comes from the early connection between Apple and what would later turn into America Online. If only Apple had seen the long term effects of an customer based online service.

But that is water under the bridge. My mini is ordered and all is well. Now, this summer, after Tiger ships, I will look at the desktop systems again. Maybe they will even have a speed bump by then.

[MORT A POTTY]

I promise you they'll have a speedbump by then. Tiger will be very nice when it's finished... right now it's pretty difficult to use. aye!

[DaveNinja]

On my dual 1.8 G5 with an ATI9600(128MB) video card, and a gig and half of ram I get around 50-70 FPS in WoW. Ironforge sometimes drops it down to 20-30fps.

[lamewing]

Originally posted by DaveNinja:
On my dual 1.8 G5 with an ATI9600(128MB) video card, and a gig and half of ram I get around 50-70 FPS in WoW. Ironforge sometimes drops it down to 20-30fps.

Not bad numbers, especially considering it is only 9600 card. The new Radeon couldn't do anything but raise those numbers!

Yep, once Tiger rolls out, I might just try the big machine, but for now the mini (and airport express/airTunes) will fill its roll nicely.

Does anyone if it's possible to set the combo drive to non-region playback, or has Apple locked that down? Thanks.

[Zubir]

Originally posted by lamewing:
I was around back then, I never stated that Direct X was around before Win95. If I gave that impression, my mistake.

I disagree, Apple clearly pushed the game developers away by pushing its status as a "work" machine and not a gaming computer, but yes, Amelio really did his best to run Apple into the ground.

In reading the history of Apple computer, my biggest disbelief comes from the early connection between Apple and what would later turn into America Online. If only Apple had seen the long term effects of an customer based online service.

But that is water under the bridge. My mini is ordered and all is well. Now, this summer, after Tiger ships, I will look at the desktop systems again. Maybe they will even have a speed bump by then.

What was the Apple thing back then called that turned into AOL? I was on it, when I had my Performa 6100.