[Y3a]

<<The Canadian government said the hunt brought badly needed income to its coastal communities, which earned about �7.2 million last year, primarily from pelt sales to Norway, Denmark and China.>>

More than 320,000 harp seals are expected to be slaughtered by the end of the cull on May 15. The pups are clubbed to death and often skinned alive.

I see the Canadians don't know of high tech fibers that are BETTER than natural ones, and that they realize the hunters are too stupid to learn another trade. But it's all for 'fashion' and the shallow fools who go in for that stuff.

Norway, Denmark and China..............hmmmmmmm.

[11011001]

Hmm, if China, Denmark and Norway are buying these, I don't think it has anything to do with Canadians knowing or not knowing about synthetic alternatives. In any case, it's not something to stereotype my whole country for. I'm sure lots of Americans probably buy the fur as well. In general people are bad, it has nothing to do with nationality.

[roberto blanco]

canadians have small penises.

[badidea]

Originally posted by roberto blanco:
canadians have small penises.

It's just cold outside!

[von Wrangell]

Originally posted by Y3a:
The pups are clubbed to death and often skinned alive.

Couple of things.

1. Where do they state that they will be killing the pups?

2. Don't believe this BS being spouted by some of the environmentalist wackos out there. They aren't clubbed to death. Yes it looks like that from afar but at the end of the "club" there's a rather big spike that kills the seal instantly.

3. And no, they are not skinned alive. This is another myth spread by the environmentalist wackos. It would do the hunters no good if the seal was still alive fighting for his life. All animals have a tendency to twitch and make sudden movements soon after they die. It doesn't mean they are alive. Ever heard of headless chickens?


If Canada can do this without hurting the seal population in the long run then good for them.

[Athens]

Canadians = Mass Seal Killers
Americans = Mass People Killers

So very a like, yet so very different.

[AB^2=BCxAC]

I'm not defending seal hunting, but come on. Your arguments sound really ignorant.

Originally posted by Y3a:
I see the Canadians don't know of high tech fibers that are BETTER than natural ones, and that they realize the hunters are too stupid to learn another trade. But it's all for 'fashion' and the shallow fools who go in for that stuff.

1. Yes, I'm sure canadians are totally in the dark about "high tech fibers", yet so are the seals, who should have known by now to stop being so soft and snuggly warm.

2. Learning another trade is so easy in a depressed economy in an isolated area of the world, especially one that's under government moratoriums (like seal hunting usually is, like a lot of fisheries are, thanks to overfishing, etc), and where access to technical schools, educational funding, and finally all those great new jobs are right there, at their doorstep.

3. They wouldn't do it if they weren't going to get money from it. *points finger at seal fur buyers*, which the government has decided they have little other recourse to earn.

[TETENAL]

Originally posted by Y3a:
I see the Canadians don't know of high tech fibers that are BETTER than natural ones, and that they realize the hunters are too stupid to learn another trade.

What else are eskimos to trade? Crushed cocktail ice?

[Y3a]

I'm sure Canadians have no educational system on-line that the hunters and fishermen know how to access.

Isn't the problem overpopulation, which causes all the species to be over-hunted?

I guess killing people(who are all evil) is the solution?

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Sick bastards, I could easily club and skin any idiot who would take part in that.

[dcmacdaddy]

I guess I am somewhat conflicted on this. I hate to see seals clubbed to death. But I also know that in a remote, wild community like sub-arctic Canada there is very little to do to earn income.

I do know that many of the First Nation's or indigineous communities use all parts of the seal. The meat and fat is consumed locally; They just sell the skins overseas. Whale hunting is also big in many of these communities. Some of the communities are so small and isolated that catching a single whale can feed the whole community for a year.

And as to why make clothing out of sealskin, it is naturally waterproof (Duh!) and provides one of the best forms of insulation in their harsh environments. If you fall through the ice wearing a seal-skin parka and pants you've got a good chance at survival. If you fall through the ice wearing super hich-tech synthetic clothing, even something like a dry-suit, your chances are survival are much, much less.

[AB^2=BCxAC]

Originally posted by Y3a:
I'm sure Canadians have no educational system on-line that the hunters and fishermen know how to access.

Because remote native villages all have newly installed free broadband and everyone has a shiny new Compaq courtesy of the Canadian government, retraining is as easy as pie!

[BoomStick]

First Bald Eagles in the news, now this.

Canadians are truly disgusting.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally posted by BoomStick:
First Bald Eagles in the news, now this.

Canadians are truly disgusting.

Yup, ALL Canadians are disgusting.
Just like ALL Americans are self-righteous, religion-obsessed, war-mongerers.

Get over yourself, dude.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by BoomStick:
First Bald Eagles in the news, now this.

Canadians are truly disgusting.

I missed the great Eagle hunt. Or are you talking about those few cases other other month.

On the plus side Americans never harm animals, they prefer other nations.

[James L]

BoomStick, and all other glass house dwelling Americans who dis Canada:


1) You have soldiers who shoot dogs for sport in Iraq... video link easily found on this forum. Well, here it is actually: http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...&highlight=dog


2) You have native American Indians who shoot whales with a .50 caliber machine gun in what is called a traditional whale hunt (funny, I don't remember the natives ever using .50 caliber machine guns). Link found here: http://www.motherjones.com/news/feat...8/09/blow.html

...incidently, your government funded both of those activities. Wierd, huh? Let's carry on:


3) Here is a link with information of seals that are hunted in Alaska, an American state. It is on the Alaska Department of Fish and Games website: http://www.adfg.state.ak.us/pubs/not...e/brd-seal.php


4) And let us not forget this stroke of animal cruelty brilliance from a loser in Texas: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4022147.stm


Moving from animals to people, why is it that the United States has twice the homicide rate, per capita, than Canada? In 2000 the US homicide rate was 5.7 per 100,000, whereas the Canadian homicide rate was 2.16 per 100,000.


I could go on, but there is no point. Slandering an entire nation of people based on one activity is childish, and I won't stoop to your level and partake in it.

Besides, you need to get back to enjoying the view from your glass house, and then go out and clean up your own back yard before you comment on others.

To all the intelligent Americans out there whom I enjoy spending my time with, I am well aware that Boomstick's ingorance is not indicative of you all.

[Athens]

Originally posted by James L:
BoomStick, and all other glass house dwelling Americans who dis Canada:


1) You have soldiers who shoot dogs for sport in Iraq... video link easily found on this forum. Well, here it is actually: http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...&highlight=dog


2) You have native American Indians who shoot whales with a .50 caliber machine gun in what is called a traditional whale hunt (funny, I don't remember the natives ever using .50 caliber machine guns). Link found here: http://www.motherjones.com/news/feat...8/09/blow.html

...incidently, your government funded both of those activities. Wierd, huh? Let's carry on:


3) Here is a link with information of seals that are hunted in Alaska, an American state. It is on the Alaska Department of Fish and Games website: http://www.adfg.state.ak.us/pubs/not...e/brd-seal.php


4) And let us not forget this stroke of animal cruelty brilliance from a loser in Texas: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4022147.stm


Moving from animals to people, why is it that the United States has twice the homicide rate, per capita, than Canada? In 2000 the US homicide rate was 5.7 per 100,000, whereas the Canadian homicide rate was 2.16 per 100,000.


I could go on, but there is no point. Slandering an entire nation of people based on one activity is childish, and I won't stoop to your level and partake in it.

Besides, you need to get back to enjoying the view from your glass house, and then go out and clean up your own back yard before you comment on others.

To all the intelligent Americans out there whom I enjoy spending my time with, I am well aware that Boomstick's ingorance is not indicative of you all.

You left out shooting animals via the internet, computers controlling real guns and killing real animals.


EDIT ops you did cover it, my bad

[roberto blanco]

Originally posted by badidea:

It's just cold outside!

yeah yeah...that's what they all say. *ggg*

[brapper]

Originally posted by Y3a:
I'm sure Canadians have no educational system on-line that the hunters and fishermen know how to access.

Isn't the problem overpopulation, which causes all the species to be over-hunted?

I guess killing people(who are all evil) is the solution?

Firstly, you're assuming way too much. Even if such a on-line system existed, the culture of the inuit is not one where technology plays a central role. I would be surprised if many of those who live in isolation had ever touched a computer.
Also, it is part of the Inuit culture to hunt seals, and like it or not it's their right.
And don't be ignorant that it's a Canadian thing to do. It's not, it's an Inuit thing to do, and most Canadians would like it abolished. But you can't tell another culture how to live and fend for themselves, especially on their own land.

[von Wrangell]

Before we have many more Americans coming into this thread condemning Canada I thought I'd share with you a bit about American whaling.

The year 2000 Americans 50 bowheads, 238 beluga, and the Makah nation has a treaty with the US government ensuring their whaling rights.

This is the same nation(US, not Makah) that votes against all kind of whaling by other nations as well as puts a former Greenpeace worker as the head of their IWC committee.

[Hugi]

So, because seals are "cute" they should not be hunted?

[von Wrangell]

Originally posted by Hugi:
So, because seals are "cute" they should not be hunted?

It�s the same argument as is now being used against whaling. It normally happens when you have no other arguments to put forth. Like now.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by Athens:
Canadians = Mass Seal Killers
Americans = Mass People Killers

So very a like, yet so very different.

Athens, not everything is about America...

[Captain Obvious]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Sick bastards, I could easily club and skin any idiot who would take part in that.

Yes, I am sure many large burly Inuit hunters would run in terror from the wrath of the skinny homosexual computer dork.

Originally posted by James L:

I could go on, but there is no point. Slandering an entire nation of people based on one activity is childish, and I won't stoop to your level and partake in it.

That's precious. What would you post about if you stopped that practice?

[RAILhead]

/could ... not ... resist ...

[Spliff]

.................................................. .............................

[Jan Van Boghout]

The seal hunt is sickening, unfortunately it will be around for as long as people buy the fur. Someone that buys baby seal fur is the true sicko, IMHO.

[Hugi]

Originally posted by Jan Van Boghout:
Someone that buys baby seal fur is the true sicko, IMHO.

Why?

[von Wrangell]

Originally posted by Jan Van Boghout:
The seal hunt is sickening, unfortunately it will be around for as long as people buy the fur. Someone that buys baby seal fur is the true sicko, IMHO.

Who said they would be hunting baby seals?

[von Wrangell]

Originally posted by Spliff:
He wants to fish and kill intelligent mammals.

What makes an animal intelligent? And what makes a seal more intelligent than a cow, pig or a sheep?

[Jan Van Boghout]

Originally posted by Hugi:
Why?

Because fur clothing is just a symbol of status, and you're wearing the skin of several animals that were killed inhumanely. Simply so you can show off. Then again, most people are completely probably unaware of what had to die when they buy that furry white coat. Any fur product should say how many animals were killed making it.

[Jan Van Boghout]

Originally posted by von Wrangell:
Who said they would be hunting baby seals?

Baby seals still have the softest and whitest fur, so they're clubbed for their higher value.

[Hugi]

Originally posted by Jan Van Boghout:
Because fur clothing is just a symbol of status, and you're wearing the skin of several animals that were killed inhumanely. Simply so you can show off. Then again, most people are completely probably unaware of what had to die when they buy that furry white coat. Any fur product should say how many animals were killed making it.

So I'm guessing you don't eat meat either?

[von Wrangell]

Originally posted by Jan Van Boghout:
Because fur clothing is just a symbol of status, and you're wearing the skin of several animals that were killed inhumanely. Simply so you can show off. Then again, most people are completely probably unaware of what had to die when they buy that furry white coat. Any fur product should say how many animals were killed making it.

Do you eat meat?

ps. I see Hugi beat me to it

[von Wrangell]

Originally posted by Jan Van Boghout:
Baby seals still have the softest and whitest fur, so they're clubbed for their higher value.

Again, where do they say they will go after the pups?

[Spliff]

Originally posted by von Wrangell:
What makes an animal intelligent? And what makes a seal more intelligent than a cow, pig or a sheep?

There are numerous studies examining animal intelligence. And almost every one of them indicates that mammals and birds are more intelligent than previously thought.

And I'm opposed to the deliberate slaughter of seals, whales, pigs, dogs, cats, crows, etc.

The Canadian Seal Hunt is particularly offensive because it's essentially a welfare program for Newfoundlanders. The federal government's own fisheries scientists spoke out against the seal hunt in the past and they disputed the government's claim that the seal were destroying the cod stocks. The scientists that spoke out were either fired or silenced.

The provincial and federal governments would do better to pour money into education and job re-training. And they should offer generous tax breaks to companies so that they'll open businesses in these provinces.

[Jan Van Boghout]

Originally posted by Hugi:
So I'm guessing you don't eat meat either?

Big difference. Meat is something you need to sustain yourself (there are no good full replacements available yet). Fur products on the other hand are complete luxury these days. I can understand Inuit hunting seals to make fur coats, but as an accessory with that golden necklace? No thanks.

That said: I think butchering of meat animals is often more stressful for the animals than necessary, mostly because of the transportation in small cages. I've seen a pig being killed for food during its morning apple routine, and it wasn't cruel in the least. A relaxed and swift death, compared to the horrors that happen in this hunt.

[von Wrangell]

Originally posted by Spliff:
There are numerous studies examining animal intelligence. And almost every one of them indicates that mammals and birds are more intelligent than previously thought.

Could you perhaps cite a couple of peer reviewed articles since searching pubmed.com for pinnipedia and intelligence gives no results.

[Jan Van Boghout]

Originally posted by von Wrangell:
Again, where do they say they will go after the pups?

Who says they won't? And what does it matter, do you think skinning an adult seal alive is any less cruel?

[Hugi]

Originally posted by Jan Van Boghout:
Big difference. Meat is something you need to sustain yourself (there are no good full replacements available yet). Fur products on the other hand are complete luxury these days. I can understand Inuit hunting seals to make fur coats, but as an accessory with that golden necklace? No thanks.

That said: I think butchering of meat animals is often more stressful for the animals than necessary, mostly because of the transportation in small cages. I've seen a pig being killed for food during its morning apple routine, and it wasn't cruel in the least. A relaxed and swift death, compared to the horrors that happen in this hunt.

So if you kill an animal humanely, you should keep the meat and throw away the fur?

I must admit I never thought of my sheepskin coat (best bloody piece of clothing I have) as a status symbol.

[von Wrangell]

Originally posted by Jan Van Boghout:
Big difference. Meat is something you need to sustain yourself (there are no good full replacements available yet). Fur products on the other hand are complete luxury these days. I can understand Inuit hunting seals to make fur coats, but as an accessory with that golden necklace? No thanks.

That said: I think butchering of meat animals is often more stressful for the animals than necessary, mostly because of the transportation in small cages. I've seen a pig being killed for food during its morning apple routine, and it wasn't cruel in the least. A relaxed and swift death, compared to the horrors that happen in this hunt.

Couple of things.

What if the Inuits eat the meat themselves and then sell the furs to gain some money? Or what if the hunters live in Inuit areas or where there is little other occupation to have and by doing that generate revenue for the community?

And what is so horrific about this hunt? They put a rather big spike straight into the brain of the seal. Instant death.

[von Wrangell]

Originally posted by Jan Van Boghout:
Who says they won't? And what does it matter, do you think skinning an adult seal alive is any less cruel?

Show me one example of seals being skinned alive.

[roberto blanco]

Originally posted by Jan Van Boghout:
Big difference. Meat is something you need to sustain yourself (there are no good full replacements available yet).

absolutely wrong. one can live a completely healthy life without eating meat. as a matter of fact, eating too much of it is causing a lot of "cultural" health problems at the moment...

the killing of these seals is pure idiocy, done by morons for morons. sorry, but there is really nothing good to say about this.

[Jan Van Boghout]

Originally posted by Hugi:
So if you kill an animal humanely, you should keep the meat and throw away the fur?

I must admit I never thought of my sheepskin coat (best bloody piece of clothing I have) as a status symbol.

Killing an animal humanely is having respect for it. Throwing away the fur when you'd keep the meat isn't We're talking about seal fur here, not sheep fur. Show me one person that requires a seal to be slaughtered for their coat (and that person doesn't live among the seals as a "natural resource" like the Inuit).

[philm]

Anyone here thirsty? Canadian Club on the rocks?

[Hugi]

Originally posted by Jan Van Boghout:
Killing an animal humanely is having respect for it. Throwing away the fur when you'd keep the meat isn't We're talking about seal fur here, not sheep fur. Show me one person that requires a seal to be slaughtered for their coat (and that person doesn't live among the seals as a "natural resource" like the Inuit).

Well, what I do not understand is what the difference is between killing seals for their meat and fur (seal meat is delicious, by the way) or sheep?

Seal killing is usually done very humanely, certainly not less humanely than any other type of hunting. Unfortunately, propaganda from organisations such as Greenpeace has been very successful at convincing people otherwise.

[Big Mac]

Originally posted by Athens:
Canadians = Mass Seal Killers
Americans = Mass People Killers

So very a like, yet so very different.

Athens, you're a real asshat; you do realize that, right?

Candian seal clubbing is a deplorable practice, and simply because other animal abuse is countenanced by society does not make the former any more appropriate.

[DBursey]

Originally posted by philm:
Anyone here thirsty? Canadian Club on the rocks?

I'll take one, thanks.

Christ, talk about the shrill leading the misinformed.

First of all, the killing of harp seal pups has been banned for years.

The vast majority of adults are shot with a high powered rifle. Contrast this with some of the gruesome means by which many of your protein meals are rendered edible. There seems a bit of cogitive dissonance betrayed by more than a few over questions like these.

The culling of harp seals serves to manage a population whose growing numbers are anything but threatened. Ecologically speaking, there really isn't a legitimate case against the east coast hunt.

Much of the media imagery surrounding 'bloodthirsty Newfoundlanders' skinning seals alive was hyped into significance by the shrill voices of some whose regard for bambie-factor seals seemed to have overcome any regard for a greater truth; that these rural hunters are engaged in a small scale, sustainable, erstwhile time-honored tradition by which a legitimate market was and continues to be exploited in a small scale. These people live in relatively prosperous communities were gun ownership is very high, and yet firearm-related crime is statistically nonexistent.

Chiding these hunters for their actions is fair play, regardless of the substantiability or even the hypocracy of ones stance in doing so. But mocking these men as dim-witted or brutish welfare recipients is as uncalled for as it is grossly inaccurate and unfair to the vast majority who partake in this tiny but highly visible industry.

[Spliff]

Originally posted by DBursey:
Much of the media imagery surrounding 'bloodthirsty Newfoundlanders' skinning seals alive was hyped into significance by the shrill voices of some whose regard for bambie-factor seals seemed to have overcome any regard for a greater truth; that these rural hunters are engaged in a small scale, sustainable, erstwhile time-honored tradition by which a legitimate market was and continues to be exploited in a small scale. These people live in relatively prosperous communities were gun ownership is very high, and yet firearm-related crime is statistically nonexistent.

Tradition is never a legitimate defense of a cruel or destructive practice. And the market for seal products was virtually non-existent 15 years ago before the seal hunt resumed. The Canadian government spent millions lobbying other nations to purchase seal products. The promotion of seal-based products continues today.

The seal hunt is a welfare or make-work program to placate Maritime Canada after the destruction of the cod stocks. And it is going to be a temporary program because eventually the protesters will win.

There is no pride to be found working in a barbaric, cruel industry. There is only shame.

[Hugi]

Originally posted by Spliff:
Tradition is never a legitimate defense of a cruel or destructive practice. And the market for seal products was virtually non-existent 15 years ago before the seal hunt resumed. The Canadian government spent millions lobbying other nations to purchase seal products. The promotion of seal-based products continues today.

The seal hunt is a welfare or make-work program to placate Maritime Canada after the destruction of the cod stocks. And it is going to be a temporary program because eventually the protesters will win.

There is no pride to be found working in a barbaric, cruel industry. There is only shame.

Why is sealing more "cruel " and "destructive" than any other type of hunting? And please, refrain from reciting the standard mantra of "clubbing baby seals and skinning them alive", unless you can produce something to prove that rather absurd claim.