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Car Talk (Page 6)
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Apr 7, 2016, 07:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Wait...why is this now a question? Didn't you decide long ago that she preferred driving stick and is actively looking for them?
Because she very recently mentioned that xover thing. Keep up, Cheech.

Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Ah yes, you're very very far behind everyone else. Here's a summary of your latest gaffe, all in one place so that even you should be able to keep up:


pretending that you don't care, and attempting to insult me in the process.
I really don't, it's more fun to not answer you.
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Apr 7, 2016, 07:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Fast: she would top 90 less than 1% of the time.
That's me too, but I care about how quickly I can get to that speed.

Driving profile: 20 miles round trip 3-5 times a week. Half on Lake Shore Drive, so pseudo-highway. Rest is city. 300 miles interstate travel round trip for visits home maybe once every 1-2 months. If she moves to Milwaukee, tack on another 200.

Fuel efficiency/cheap repairs: these aren't insignificant considerations considering her income. Especially repairs. This is one of the reasons a car still under warranty appeals.
So moderate distances, but with cheap service and repairs.

Handling vs. comfort: which is a Golf better at?
A GTI is more about handling, stiffer suspension and more rigid chassis, a regular Golf is more about comfort. However, I wouldn't get a VW if cheap service and repairs are a thing. I mean, it isn't like a Merc, but they can surprise you. Maybe check out an off-lease Focus ST, then. Yeah, yeah, it'll cost more than a regular Focus to keep up, but it'll hold its value well and they're the dog's bollocks to drive (and you can haul a surprising amount of stuff in one).

Used Ford Focus For Sale Chicago, IL - CarGurus

or a standard Focus, maybe:

Used Ford Focus For Sale Chicago, IL - CarGurus
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
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subego  (op)
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Apr 7, 2016, 10:13 PM
 
The 250 horses sounds sporty to me.

It's a bit over her budget, but that's her fault for letting slip she'd go into hock.

Damn fine suggestion!
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Apr 7, 2016, 10:32 PM
 
I'm serious when I say it's a ball to drive, there's nothing like it under $25k. Plus it has utility, lots of room inside.
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subego  (op)
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Apr 7, 2016, 10:48 PM
 
It's passed the "cute" test.
     
The Final Shortcut
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Apr 8, 2016, 10:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
So, once she's figured out exactly what car she wants... then come to the forum for advice for what cars to look into.
She needs to drive some cars, period. It's a real pain in the ass and a waste of a couple Saturdays. But otherwise she's just wasting our time.
     
Laminar
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Apr 8, 2016, 10:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I really don't, it's more fun to not answer you.
Except when you did try to answer me and weren't able. Try harder. Keep up.
     
Laminar
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Apr 8, 2016, 10:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
It's passed the "cute" test.
If she likes the ST, definitely drive a normal Focus hatch with a stick. See if the ST's power and handling are worth the higher price of entry, lower reliability, and huge turning radius - the ST has a different front suspension that limits how far you can turn the wheels, making city driving and tight parking difficult.

The regular Focus is 200lbs lighter, gets 4+ more mpg highway, and doesn't need/recommend premium fuel.

If you want leather seats in an ST, you have to get the MyFordTouch touchscreen stereo, which is a huge cause of headaches on these cars. Some people like it, and the latest software version generally works, but it still has its quirks and a high failure rate.

But definitely drive them both and see if the extra headaches are worth the extra benefits to her.
     
subego  (op)
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Apr 8, 2016, 11:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Shortcut View Post
She needs to drive some cars, period. It's a real pain in the ass and a waste of a couple Saturdays. But otherwise she's just wasting our time.
She's looking for advice on what cars to test drive.

FFS, man.
     
subego  (op)
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Apr 8, 2016, 11:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
If she likes the ST, definitely drive a normal Focus hatch with a stick. See if the ST's power and handling are worth the higher price of entry, lower reliability, and huge turning radius - the ST has a different front suspension that limits how far you can turn the wheels, making city driving and tight parking difficult.

The regular Focus is 200lbs lighter, gets 4+ more mpg highway, and doesn't need/recommend premium fuel.

If you want leather seats in an ST, you have to get the MyFordTouch touchscreen stereo, which is a huge cause of headaches on these cars. Some people like it, and the latest software version generally works, but it still has its quirks and a high failure rate.

But definitely drive them both and see if the extra headaches are worth the extra benefits to her.
Nice thing is she can take the SE out for a spin from Zipcar, and looking over the specs, 170hp isn't shabby for a car that size. The Mazda 3 I drove was a little weak at 150, but I was thinking the model with 170 would probably have enough go.

As I said though. Almost no one is selling their up-engined Mazda 3, while there are literal piles of the base model available.
     
Laminar
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Apr 8, 2016, 12:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Nice thing is she can take the SE out for a spin from Zipcar, and looking over the specs, 170hp isn't shabby for a car that size. The Mazda 3 I drove was a little weak at 150, but I was thinking the model with 170 would probably have enough go.
Stay far, far away from the automatic Focus. Ford tried to make a dual clutch gearbox and failed miserably. They're total and complete garbage with extremely high failure rates. They drive very poorly and Ford has been refusing to fix them. Basically every single thread on the Focus forums devolves into a thread describing just how badly the DCT sucks.
     
subego  (op)
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Apr 8, 2016, 12:41 PM
 


Just rescinded my recommendation she try the Zip model.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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Apr 8, 2016, 01:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
She's looking for advice on what cars to test drive.

FFS, man.
Stop being pissy.

Every car out there today is pretty good. We've already suggested, what, enough cars to take her a full week to go through at dealerships?

The simple answer to your question is that there is no answer until she actually starts to drive these cars. That is literally the only way to tell what car she will actually like, and what car works best for her budget.

To make my point and follow up with Shaddim's last comments to me: my wife wanted to get a Abarth last year for driving around the city (again, for the cute factor). That's why I looked into them so much (along with the Mini Cooper) - on paper, I was excited about it. And then we took the Abarth (which btw also had a superlarge turn radius I believe - it wouldn't Uie on our street) and the 500 out for 3 test drives. And that was the end of that - I thought it was super fun to drive, but the most unpractical car I can think of, short of a Smart. My wife hated it.

The point is that buying a car is not much different that buying a house - they always look way different than described, some immediately rub you the wrong way, others are only okay, and some just fit you. So we can all sit here and act like realtors all we want and sell her on this or that, but until she actually steps foot in one it's all wild speculation - until we get her feedback.
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subego  (op)
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Apr 8, 2016, 01:48 PM
 
@Cap'n Tightpants and Laminar

We wanted to thank you for the valuable insight you have given us... a car we most certainly wouldn't have looked at is now on the short list of cars to test drive.

But we can't thank you, because Shortcut says it's useless. Maybe you two should try harder next time.
     
Laminar
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Apr 8, 2016, 02:18 PM
 
Long ago I accepted that everything I do is useless, so this is merely confirmation of the obvious.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Apr 8, 2016, 02:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Except when you did try to answer me and weren't able. Try harder. Keep up.
You're hallucinating, again. But I guess that's normal for you.
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Laminar
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Apr 8, 2016, 02:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
You're hallucinating, again. But I guess that's normal for you.
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
That is how you will respond to this post as well, trying to downplay how stupid you looked, pretending that you don't care, and attempting to insult me in the process.


Originally Posted by subego View Post
As I said though. Almost no one is selling their up-engined Mazda 3, while there are literal piles of the base model available.
When I bought my Focus brand new, I paid $1000 more than used ones were going for at the time, and $3000 less than used, manual 2.5L Mazda3s were going for at the time.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Apr 8, 2016, 02:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Nice thing is she can take the SE out for a spin from Zipcar, and looking over the specs, 170hp isn't shabby for a car that size. The Mazda 3 I drove was a little weak at 150, but I was thinking the model with 170 would probably have enough go.

As I said though. Almost no one is selling their up-engined Mazda 3, while there are literal piles of the base model available.
The difference is striking, comparing the two, the SE feels like there's something wrong with it. The turn radius is really the only minus to the car, but that's only when compared to its weaker sibling. Unless you're regularly doing lots of tight u-turns, it isn't something you notice. Oh, and its Recaros are some of the best seats that have ever been put in any hatchback. It's certainly a case of "how did they afford to put these in here?" and greatly enhances the driving experience. IMO, the SE is a decent car, but the ST has a uniqueness that bridges the gap between what is general transportation and what is extraordinary, a rare thing in a small car. I can drive pretty much anything, but I choose to use a Focus ST as a daily driver. (At least until my RS arrives. )
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Laminar
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Apr 8, 2016, 02:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
The turn radius is really the only minus to the car, but that's only when compared to its weaker sibling.
...and every other car in this category. I realize you're having a lot of trouble keeping up, this was posted earlier in this very thread:

Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Turning circles:

Civic: 35.5'
Focus: 36'
Mazda3: 34.8'
Corolla: 35.6'
Jetta: 36.4'

The Focus ST has a different front suspension than the regular Focus and reviewers have complained about its huge turning circle at 39.4'.
For reference, the Crown Victoria's turning circle is about 40'. Minivans are typically in the 37' range. 39.4' is objectively a huge turning radius, especially for a hot hatch.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Apr 8, 2016, 02:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
You're often so pissy and aggressive, it's rare that you don't look stupid. Playing the victim is mostly a recent occurrence, though. Your RL tantrums must be legendary.
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Laminar
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Apr 8, 2016, 03:00 PM
 
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Apr 8, 2016, 03:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
You've become a living meme. That says it all, doesn't it?
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Laminar
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Apr 8, 2016, 03:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I'm pretty sure I listed that as a minus, but as I said before, if you aren't making a lot of u-turns, that extra few feet isn't something you'll normally notice.
Wow, just a few minutes go by and you're already trying to rewrite history?

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
The turn radius is really the only minus to the car, but that's only when compared to its weaker sibling.
So, so slow.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Apr 8, 2016, 03:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Wow, just a few minutes go by and you're already trying to rewrite history?

So, so slow.
Those few feet on the turn radius mean so much to you. Poor growling pedant.
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Laminar
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Apr 8, 2016, 03:26 PM
 
Hahahaha
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Apr 8, 2016, 03:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Hahahaha
Hypocrisy, thy name is Laminar.
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Laminar
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Apr 8, 2016, 03:35 PM
 
You're doing a great job convincing me that you don't care! Keep it up!
     
andi*pandi
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Apr 8, 2016, 03:38 PM
 

This bickering isn't even popcorn worthy, it's just tiresome.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Apr 8, 2016, 04:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
You're doing a great job convincing me that you don't care! Keep it up!
I don't, it's just how I entertain myself during infusion days. That you believe an extra 20-whatever inches matters on a turn radius is comical.
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Apr 8, 2016, 04:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
This bickering isn't even popcorn worthy, it's just tiresome.
I know, right? I even supported Sanders, FFS, but I get the feeling that nothing appeases The MacNN Growler™.
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Laminar
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Apr 8, 2016, 04:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I don't, it's just how I entertain myself during infusion days.
Hopefully you're getting a math infusion.

That you believe an extra 20-whatever inches matters on a turn radius is comical.
It only matters in tight parking spaces and narrow streets.
     
Laminar
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Apr 8, 2016, 04:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I know, right? I even supported Sanders, FFS, but I get the feeling that nothing appeases The MacNN Growler™.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Apr 8, 2016, 04:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Hopefully you're getting a math infusion.
Wow, more irony. Need me to explain the difference between circles (diameter) and radii, growler?

It only matters in tight parking spaces and narrow streets.
In rare instances. *shrug*
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Laminar
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Apr 8, 2016, 04:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
In rare instances. *shrug*
People in cities never have tight parking situations.

Pop Quiz: What size turning circle does a car need to take a u-turn in a street 3 lanes wide?
     
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Apr 8, 2016, 04:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
People in cities never have tight parking situations.

Pop Quiz: What size turning circle does a car need to take a u-turn in a street 3 lanes wide?
Did I say "never", growler?
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The Final Dakar
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Apr 8, 2016, 05:42 PM
 
Way back on Page 3, like a month ago, I brought this up.

Originally Posted by P View Post
What happens is that if the size of your wheels is off, then the speed and the distance travelled as reported by your car instruments will be wrong. Both of those are effectively rev counters for your wheels. Bigger wheel means fewer revolutions for the same distance traveled, i.e. distance travelled is underestimated and so is speed.

To check, pick some time when are driving on a straight road at constant speed with good visibility of the sky, and check what speed your GPS reports compared to what your car says. Keep in mind that cars are generally calibrated to show slightly higher than actual, to avoid legal liability. If the car shows a lower number than your GPS, then something is up.
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Do you happen to know the brand and size of the tires before and after? Tire manufacturers publish actual diameter data that you could use to compare before and after. Tire pressures matter too - a slightly deflated tire has a smaller effective radius than a fully inflated one.

I replaced tires on my car last year with the same size, but like you I realized the new ones were a bit taller. There's a speed camera that tickets anything over 70mph, so I alwasy set cruise at 69mph (heh) on that road. I ended up getting a ticket mailed to me for going 71mph even though I religiously set cruise at 69. I compared my phone GPS to car speed and found the car was reporting a slower speed than actual from the GPS.
So, here's the sleuthing I did: Eyeballing the odometer, checking the Googlemaps predicted distance, and the apps recorded distance, all three agree on the length of my work commute. I've come to the conclusion the app is crazy: My car thinks the tank has 360 miles on a full tank, but the app says 430. This is most noticeable when the empty light comes on: The app says I have 50 miles left when the fuel gauge is on empty. While I imagine there is reserve over a gallon and half seems generous.

The last time I checked the gallons pumped vs. trip calculator, it agreed with the car's internal mpg calculation.

As for the app, it records I just drove 11 miles, but estimates I still have 427 miles left in the tank. So yeah, it's the app.
     
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Apr 8, 2016, 05:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
@Cap'n Tightpants and Laminar

We wanted to thank you for the valuable insight you have given us... a car we most certainly wouldn't have looked at is now on the short list of cars to test drive.

But we can't thank you, because Shortcut says it's useless. Maybe you two should try harder next time.
Why is there a "short list of cars to test drive", when she hasn't even tried one yet? After all that, she might get in a 2014 Civic Si and like it the best.

I'm not lying to you here - choosing cars solely on specs just doesn't make sense. Every car has a "feel" - and so do companies to some extent. I'll maintain that she needs to experience that before starting to talk about "short lists".
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subego  (op)
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Apr 9, 2016, 12:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Why is there a "short list of cars to test drive", when she hasn't even tried one yet?
Why is she coming up with a list of cars to test drive?

Take a wild ****ing guess.
     
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Apr 9, 2016, 10:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Why is she coming up with a list of cars to test drive?

Take a wild ****ing guess.
Look, so far in this thread, going from memory, I believe you have indicated she was interested at one point or another in the VW GTI, BMW 3 series, Audi A3, Mazda3 s, Focus ST, Fiat Abarth, and Mazda CX-3. (Possibly others.)

That is just.....a totally throw-it-at-the-wall list of vehicles. A huge range of brands, specs, styles, ride quality, reliability, and cost of ownership.

We can keep doing this ad infinitum - just naming every car under ~15k. Like I said, almost every car is pretty good these days - it's mostly splitting hairs on personal preference and brand fit. And that's just not something you get from looking at numbers.

That's all I'm saying. . Get her in a few of these and let's get some feedback! I'm interested to know what she thinks.
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subego  (op)
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Apr 9, 2016, 12:16 PM
 
She likes the GTI and the A3 because she's driven them before.

The floor is now open for you to start being helpful.
     
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Apr 9, 2016, 12:37 PM
 
Oh. See, I'm the guy that recommended the Mazda3, Civic, Corolla or Impreza.
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Apr 9, 2016, 12:42 PM
 
Actually, that makes me even more annoyed. If she's driven some of the cars before, then we need to know that. Presumably that means she liked the fit. Why are you holding back on information like that?

Personally, I'm out on VW because of the blatant lying, cover ups, and seemingly complete lack of ethics. Others may not care at all about that. I would strongly suspect the A3 is out of her budget.
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subego  (op)
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Apr 9, 2016, 12:53 PM
 
Read the first ****ing post.
     
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Apr 9, 2016, 08:18 PM
 
All it says is that she drove a GTI. Zero feedback.

Did she like the ride on Chicago potholes? Was rear leg or head room an issue? Four door or coupe - i.e. will there regularly be passengers or stuff being carried around? Does she mind having to scrape up off the ground every time she gets out, or would she just rather sit a little higher and more comfortably? Did she like the way the cupholders were placed or is that not an issue? Does she need or use storage space in the cockpit and/or doors? What about cupholders in the rear seats for passengers on those long drives home? What about the media system - was it annoying capacitive buttons that are a pain to fiddle with while driving, or nice touch knobs? What about a backup camera? Was Bluetooth pairing easy and can you play music through it, or do you need to plug in the phone to play your shit? Was there a lot of road noise at highway speeds that make Bluetooth calls annoying? Were there higher-capacity USB ports for easily charging new phones? Is the "phone spot" big enough for the new phones? What about near the dash, if she wants her phone to double as a Garmin - and is there a good spot on the dash for a stick-on phone holder? Were the seats comfortable - like not for 30 seconds, but enough that you think several hours would be fine? Were the seats heated - assuming that is a nice feature in Chicago? What about remote start? Does she care whether the seats are leather, the mark of a truly luxurious automobile? Was the trunk big enough for the luggage she normally carries home in the Enterprise car? What about for picking up/dropping off friends at the airport? Did she like the way it parallel parked or was there a larger blind spot? Are the A or B pillars a bit larger or block enough vision to make it harder to spot pedestrians in busy downtown intersections? What about driving into tight parking lots - was it easy to park or require more finesse? If it's not a manual, was the CVT good or did it have some awkward lag in lower revs like you're waiting for it to spool up? If it's a hatch does it go high enough so that she won't bash her head off it? Or is it so high it might smack against a pipe in your low condo parking garage (a problem with many SUVs). What about highway bumps like at bridge connections - does it get tossed around enough to really scare you (like a Fiat 500) or does it sail over and inspire confidence?

Look, I didn't do that in any particular order or importance, just rhymed off whatever I've noticed when I drive vehicles. I don't think you're providing us much of anything to go on here. Hell, your only feedback is preferring a Mini over a Civic because you thought the turning radius was shorter (it isn't) and the nose was too long in the Civic (it only is in comparison to a Mini). I'm not criticizing you for that - I'm just pointing out how it shows that driving is totally different than looking at the numbers.
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subego  (op)
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Apr 10, 2016, 11:51 AM
 
What she liked about it was that it's "sporty".

Part of that is it has sporty lines. It looks more like a sports car as opposed to a regular car. The other, more important aspect is the mating of 200+ hp in a (relatively speaking) small car. That's the most important aspect to her. When she's driving aggressively, she wants the thing to move. Like the Cap'n... she doesn't go over 90, but wants to get to 90 fast.

She's driven a Mini before. Aces in the cute department, not nearly enough pickup.

She doesn't like the Civic because it's boring, and is far too responsible a choice.

She didn't drive the base model Mazda3, but she drove in it with me. She liked it, and would be happy with it, but her big question was if it had enough pickup. To my mind it was just okay. I wouldn't call it "sporty", which is why I'm suggesting she looks at the one up-engined model for sale in a 50 mile radius.

While a lot of the other things you mention have significance, her budget puts her in a bit of a "beggars can't be choosers" position. If the cup-holders suck then the cup holders suck. It's for this specific problem that God gave us crotches.

I don't know where you're getting the idea she doesn't want to test drive. The whole point of this exercise is narrowing down the field of possibilities because, as you correctly stated, they're all pretty good. All the cars is too many choices.

She doesn't know a lot about cars. To a large extent, her knowledge goes no further than seeing a car on the street and liking it. Hence the CX-3. What I know about cars is limited to station wagons and delivery vans.

Hey... I tried with the station wagon.

So, I'm coming here to talk to the car people, and find out which are the small cars with way too big of an engine.
     
subego  (op)
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Apr 10, 2016, 12:11 PM
 
A quick bitch about the Mini... I hated the "green mode" shit where the engine would shut off at every goddamn stop sign.
     
subego  (op)
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Apr 10, 2016, 06:11 PM
 
Anybody have horrible things to say about the Veloster Turbo?

Seems like it's worth a try.


She ultimately can't bring herself to try a Focus. Bad experiences with them related to the aforementioned brother. His wife used to drive one, and she Yokoed their (extremely close) relationship.

Too bad. Looks like fun.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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Apr 10, 2016, 08:14 PM
 
What about the Civic Si? You've said a couple times that she doesn't want a "boring" Civic, but the Si is certainly more car than she could comfortable handle.

It's somewhere around 205hp, also comes in a super-practical 4-door sedan style, and might be available at her price point in a fairly recent model year. Plus it's still got a reputation as a reliable Honda (unless Lam's stats say otherwise).

The Civic has certainly been passed in the "fun small car" category over the past decade - I've heard Honda is bring the hatch and the Type R back to North America in the latest variant, which may get them back in the ring. But the Si is a super fun little car and only really bettered from a driving perspective by stuff like the GTI, the Focus ST or the Impreza WRX. But it's cheaper than any of those, I would suspect more reliable, still super fun to drive, and I enjoy the stealthy small-sedan look, myself. Comes in a manual only I think.

I've driven the 2015 model. It was a boatload of fun. Actually my buddy had an Impreza STI and I almost killed myself trying to keep up with him on some back roads - had one of those come-to-Jesus, WTF-am-I-thinking life moments after almost missing a turn at maybe 7000RPM in 4th gear. Interior was pretty interesting but sounds like she could like it, haha.
( Last edited by ShortcutToMoncton; Apr 10, 2016 at 08:27 PM. )
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subego  (op)
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Apr 10, 2016, 08:27 PM
 
That's not a bad suggestion, but that looks like another one of those cars people keep. There's only one for sale in a 50 mile radius.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Apr 10, 2016, 08:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
A quick bitch about the Mini... I hated the "green mode" shit where the engine would shut off at every goddamn stop sign.
Yeah, I hate that crap. It doesn't always start back up reliably either, so you're stuck trying to start the damned car with people getting impatient behind you.

I really like the John Cooper Works Mini, my wife used to drive one (I stole it for my hot hatch collection after she started driving the Model S), it has some really impressive handling, but for most the price premium isn't worth it.
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but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
 
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