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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Star. Trek. vs. Lost. In. Space. Capt. and. Starman. Show

Star. Trek. vs. Lost. In. Space. Capt. and. Starman. Show (Page 2)
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Mar 16, 2016, 06:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Couple that with the fact that $2M was raised over two crowd funding campaigns using Star Trek's name
Peanuts
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starman
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Mar 16, 2016, 06:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Yep. That says a lot, doesn't it? The only thing the Axanar filmmakers are guilty of is underestimating their budgetary needs, but that's pretty common for a project of this scope. Many people, myself included, have offered to make up the discrepancy, because we believe it will be an amazing film, but they aren't accepting a dime until the Paramount c*ckblock is put to rest (though their legal representation is largely being done pro bono). Doesn't exactly paint them as the greedy money-grubbers many of their detractors make them out to be, does it?
Huh. And yet Horizon was done with 1/10 the budget.

And Star Trek Continues made SEVEN episodes over the last three years with a little less than that total.

Also...


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BadKosh
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Mar 16, 2016, 06:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Lost in Space had superior FX? Are you on crack?
So YOU LIKE the thick matte lines around the TOS Enterprise? Go back and watch "The Derelict", the 2nd episode of the 1st season. The SPFX for LIS was done by the 20th Century fox 2nd unit folks and Howard Lydecker, one of the 2 folks who perfected high speed photography. I might know more about LIS and the SPFX than you know.

Here is my reverse engineered "old school" Jupiter 2 lighting effects test.


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Cap'n Tightpants
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Mar 16, 2016, 06:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Huh. And yet Horizon was done with 1/10 the budget.
and looks like it, too. While I admire anyone who undertakes such a thing, it's wasn't even close to Axanar's trailer.
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Mar 16, 2016, 07:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
and looks like it, too. While I admire anyone who undertakes such a thing, it's wasn't even close to Axanar's trailer.
20 minutes isn't a "trailer". It's a short film.

BTW: I see you're no longer arguing a lot of the points you made yesterday. Did you finally come to your senses?

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starman
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Mar 16, 2016, 07:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
So YOU LIKE the thick matte lines around the TOS Enterprise? Go back and watch "The Derelict", the 2nd episode of the 1st season. The SPFX for LIS was done by the 20th Century fox 2nd unit folks and Howard Lydecker, one of the 2 folks who perfected high speed photography. I might know more about LIS and the SPFX than you know.

Here is my reverse engineered "old school" Jupiter 2 lighting effects test.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTzxEKXqAUA
You're kidding, right? The shot opens with the absolute crappiest shot of Maureen shooting a "line" out, which was obviously pulled on a line vertically, not to mention the awful shots of John. I think one was repeated. I'd take a matte line of this atrocity any day.

The ship they land inside is insanely out of proportion. Have you seen the Star Trek episode "The Doomsday Machine"? That episode blows this away.

Don't get me started on the carrot people.

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Cap'n Tightpants
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Mar 16, 2016, 07:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
20 minutes isn't a "trailer". It's a short film.

BTW: I see you're no longer arguing a lot of the points you made yesterday. Did you finally come to your senses?
Why repeat myself? The money collected for production has no bearing on the copyright infringement charges, it's just a red herring.
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Mar 16, 2016, 07:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Why repeat myself? The money collected for production has no bearing on the copyright infringement charges, it's just a red herring.
Um, again, you didn't read the legal docs posted by Paramount or you would have seen that it is in fact the case.

But live in ignorance...

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Cap'n Tightpants
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Mar 16, 2016, 08:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Um, again, you didn't read the legal docs posted by Paramount or you would have seen that it is in fact the case.

But live in ignorance...


Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
The salaries for the actors, director, and producers wasn't even listed in the numerated complaints, it has no bearing on the alleged copyright violations.
Again, why keep repeating myself?
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starman
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Mar 16, 2016, 08:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post




Again, why keep repeating myself?
"62. On information and belief, Defendants enjoy a direct financial benefit from the preparation, duplication, and distribution of the infringing Axanar Works."

What about this ^^^^ do you NOT UNDERSTAND?

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Mar 16, 2016, 11:27 PM
 
What do you guys think about dems and libs, Obama, the ACA, Donald Trump, and planned parenthood abortions?
     
reader50
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Mar 17, 2016, 12:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
There's much more done than people outside the project realize.
I saw some hints they'd begun shooting months ago, but that wasn't consistent with the later sets updates. I've since dug around more.

Axanar first day of shooting was June 13, 2015. Outside green-screen shots pictured. The script would need to be finished by then.



Later updates show inside sets being gradually built. Either they're giving old updates and are maybe done with shooting, or they're shooting scenes as sets are completed. Which might make sense if they have limited space.

Either way, I am getting the impression Axanar is farther along. Very possibly with over half of the live action shot.
     
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Mar 17, 2016, 12:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
Either way, I am getting the impression Axanar is farther along. Very possibly with over half of the live action shot.
And how is this possible when they haven't shot anything else, and they lost Tony Todd? Where are the other blog posts showing production shots?

Also, from Feb. 6, 2016:

What Does A Fan Film Need With $2 Million? | 1701News

On one hand, we have "Axanar," which has more than $1 million on hand raised by Star Trek fans, a seasoned director like Robert Meyer Burnett attached, and the film is not even cast?
So, explain how it's mostly done without a cast as of last month?

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Mar 17, 2016, 12:53 AM
 
The linked page is another party outside the Axanar production, and that sounds like his opinions. I'd also like to know about later production shots.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Mar 17, 2016, 01:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
"62. On information and belief, Defendants enjoy a direct financial benefit from the preparation, duplication, and distribution of the infringing Axanar Works."

What about this ^^^^ do you NOT UNDERSTAND?
You're apparently NOT UNDERSTANDING what I said, and given the lather you've worked yourself into, I'm not surprised.
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Mar 17, 2016, 02:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
You're apparently NOT UNDERSTANDING what I said, and given the lather you've worked yourself into, I'm not surprised.
What you said is dead wrong:

"The salaries for the actors, director, and producers wasn't even listed in the numerated complaints, it has no bearing on the alleged copyright violations."

And yet I copied and pasted from Paramount's complaint. So what the hell are you even talking about?

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Mar 17, 2016, 04:10 AM
 
I'm not really clear about what either of you is arguing about. I'd like to see some real Star Trek films, as opposed to the action reboot Abrams has been pushing out.

So I'm wishing good luck towards the Axanar people, other fan films, and rooting against the CBS lawsuit. Which seems designed to drain the fan finances and remove all substantial competition to the Abrams reboot.

After the first Abrams trek film, I haven't even watched the trailers for #2 or #3. They're not the red shirts I'm looking for.

I will watch his new Star Wars when it comes out on video. SW is a much better fit for his style.
     
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Mar 17, 2016, 09:19 AM
 
I think Abrams must have learnt from Star Trek how much you can tinker with a beloved formula, as his SW was much better for it. ST into Darkness had much that was horrible.
     
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Mar 17, 2016, 11:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
You're kidding, right? The shot opens with the absolute crappiest shot of Maureen shooting a "line" out, which was obviously pulled on a line vertically, not to mention the awful shots of John. I think one was repeated. I'd take a matte line of this atrocity any day.

The ship they land inside is insanely out of proportion. Have you seen the Star Trek episode "The Doomsday Machine"? That episode blows this away.

Don't get me started on the carrot people.
The Jupiter 2 shots were 2nd unit, the rest were not. June with the cable was a practical effect, the high speed photography was 2nd unit. You're probably too young to have seen the originals on TV, and have probably only seen the cleaned up ST-TOS from the late 1980's where they removed much of the matte lines. Doomsday Machine is far better with the CGI swapped in for the hideous Matte line stuff that was very stiff. That you don't seem to understand who did what also leaves some doubt.
     
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Mar 17, 2016, 11:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
I think Abrams must have learnt from Star Trek how much you can tinker with a beloved formula, as his SW was much better for it. ST into Darkness had much that was horrible.

True, but in my opinion there were really only two memorable and impactful Star Trek movies ever: the original and Wrath of Khan. The others, to me, were entirely forgettable. The TV series, however, were weekly events. I remember waiting in anticipation for the next Next Generation episode.
     
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Mar 17, 2016, 12:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
The Jupiter 2 shots were 2nd unit, the rest were not. June with the cable was a practical effect, the high speed photography was 2nd unit. You're probably too young to have seen the originals on TV, and have probably only seen the cleaned up ST-TOS from the late 1980's where they removed much of the matte lines. Doomsday Machine is far better with the CGI swapped in for the hideous Matte line stuff that was very stiff. That you don't seem to understand who did what also leaves some doubt.
I've been watching the show since it was on NBC.

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Mar 17, 2016, 12:19 PM
 
Hey look, a 3-way pissing match between the most annoying people on MacNN, awesome

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BadKosh
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Mar 17, 2016, 12:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
I've been watching the show since it was on NBC.
But you still like the black matte lines over the superior high speed photography. Howard Lydecker and Fox was able to use it effectively even to movies like 1941, Poseidon Adventure and even some of the Star Wars SPFX shots while the bluescreen/Greenscreen stuff didn't improve until computer assisted post production methods were involved. High speed shots don't need to have heavy post production optical compositing either.
     
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Mar 17, 2016, 02:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
But you still like the black matte lines over the superior high speed photography. Howard Lydecker and Fox was able to use it effectively even to movies like 1941, Poseidon Adventure and even some of the Star Wars SPFX shots while the bluescreen/Greenscreen stuff didn't improve until computer assisted post production methods were involved. High speed shots don't need to have heavy post production optical compositing either.
How about this: I don't care. Star Trek was a far superior show, and five seconds of matte lines don't mean jack compared to the rest of the show. Effing carrot people....

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Mar 17, 2016, 03:06 PM
 
Can we at least all agree the Lost in Space movie sucked totally and absolutely, despite Liam Neeson and Gary Oldman? Such total suckage.
     
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Mar 17, 2016, 03:18 PM
 
I remember half enjoying it. I liked the initial robot a lot.
     
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Mar 17, 2016, 03:21 PM
 
I remember it as being terrible, but the casting is amusing.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Mar 17, 2016, 03:24 PM
 
I have only ever wanted to walk out of two movies that I can remember. Lost in Space and that one with the kids lost in the woods with a shakycam. Nausea for different reasons.
     
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Mar 17, 2016, 03:25 PM
 
Did either of you have high expectations or something?
     
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Mar 17, 2016, 03:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
How about this: I don't care. Star Trek was a far superior show, and five seconds of matte lines don't mean jack compared to the rest of the show. Effing carrot people....
So you missed the part about me stating the SPFX were superior. I agree I can't watch anything past the first 5-6 episodes myself. The 4 foot Jupiter 2 was a great SPFX model, not stuck on a stick with the limitations that caused.
     
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Mar 17, 2016, 03:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Can we at least all agree the Lost in Space movie sucked totally and absolutely, despite Liam Neeson and Gary Oldman? Such total suckage.
True. Wasn't it William Hurt though?
     
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Mar 17, 2016, 04:00 PM
 
You're right! I had blocked it out.
     
starman
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Mar 17, 2016, 04:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
So you missed the part about me stating the SPFX were superior. I agree I can't watch anything past the first 5-6 episodes myself. The 4 foot Jupiter 2 was a great SPFX model, not stuck on a stick with the limitations that caused.
I still disagree about the effects being superior. You have a 4ft. model on black wires on a black-and-white TV show. That ship they found on "The Derelict" looks pathetic. No depth of field on it. Star Trek doing blue screen in 1965 was borderline pioneering. And all you can complain about is some hardly-seen matte lines?

The Enterprise hangs in the Smithsonian. 'Nuff said.


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Mar 17, 2016, 05:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
And yet I copied and pasted from Paramount's complaint. So what the hell are you even talking about?
Geez. Look at the examples of alleged copyright violation, the section: "ALLEGATIONS COMMON TO ALL CLAIMS". See those? What you're so worked up isn't listed as an alleged violation. Because it doesn't have anything to do with copyright. They believe it's supporting evidence, it's an attempt to "pad" the claim. Given how quickly Paramount's council cobbled this together, to avoid having the case completely thrown out, I can see why.
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Mar 17, 2016, 05:54 PM
 
You are an IDIOT!!! At the time Star Trek was on TV, most of the special effects folks KNEW that Howard Anderson was 2nd rate at best. NBC was constraining the costs of Star Trek. Hell, the same was happening to Lost in Space, but Irwin Allen ignored studio rules and got it done. NOTHING in the SPFX that Anderson was doing was state of the art. Sorry, but I've been a frustrated 2nd unit SPFX guy for 30 years. I've borrowed a Mitchell 16mm camera and done both stop motion and high speed photography as a hobby. I have a copy of the 4 foot Jupiter 2 made from molds of the Hero. I have reverse engineered the mechanical effects and landing gear of the 4 footer. The youtube link is of a 1/2 scale model of the Hero. Go ahead, put YOUR 1/350 TOS Enterprise on a stick and show us what you can actually produce. make sure you get the colors right and the Nacelle motion and lighting correct. We'll wait.......................... What optical printer will you use? While you're at it, look up Howard and Theodore Lydecker. The Smithsonian did a real good job of restoration in 1991 huh? Look at how much bidders paid for th Gemini 12 AND the 2 4 Foot Jupiter 2's. The TOS Enterprise was given away.
     
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Mar 17, 2016, 06:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
You are an IDIOT!!!
Thanks for that. Lost in Space effects suck. End of story.

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Mar 17, 2016, 08:10 PM
 
Axanar posted a blog update yesterday, which may address some of the arguing here. For example:
In their filing, the plaintiffs have told us this is not about money, it is about copyright infringement. ... Since we are the ones who are dealing with this lawsuit on a daily basis and know things the public does not, we can tell you quite simply, it isn’t about money.
Unfortunately, they don't give any hints of how far along production is. They do address profit/nonprofit questions.
     
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Mar 17, 2016, 08:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Thanks for that. Lost in Space effects suck. End of story.
Exactly. You are at best a fanboy, for Star Trek, but have no experience or in uderstanding of HOW spfx are done. LOL!
     
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Mar 18, 2016, 12:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
Exactly. You are at best a fanboy, for Star Trek, but have no experience or in uderstanding of HOW spfx are done. LOL!
Lost in Space is a crap show, crap special effects, crap writing, crap everything. When I was a kid I could tell the effects were bad. Talk about fanboy. Jeez...

I thought it was a bad show when I was six, and you think your posts are going to convince me otherwise? lol
( Last edited by starman; Mar 18, 2016 at 12:11 AM. )

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Mar 18, 2016, 12:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
Axanar posted a blog update yesterday, which may address some of the arguing here. For example:

Unfortunately, they don't give any hints of how far along production is. They do address profit/nonprofit questions.
If it's not about money, why is money listed in the complaint?

Someone makes $2M off my IP with nothing to show for it, I'd sue them too.

Remember, this is mainly Paramount that's suing, not CBS.

FACT: AP said originally that this was NOT a fan film (see above). Then he changed his tune. The same goes for "we're building a studio" which turned into "oh, well, no, we CALL it a studio..."

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Mar 18, 2016, 05:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
If it's not about money, why is money listed in the complaint?
...
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Mar 18, 2016, 08:25 AM
 
This is the second thread this week that I have to remind that THIS IS NOT THE PWL.
     
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Mar 18, 2016, 08:42 AM
 
     
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Mar 18, 2016, 08:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Lost in Space is a crap show, crap special effects, crap writing, crap everything. When I was a kid I could tell the effects were bad. Talk about fanboy. Jeez...

I thought it was a bad show when I was six, and you think your posts are going to convince me otherwise? lol
LIS years 2 and 3 were in color.

"Space hippies" huh? Face it BOTH shows had good and bad episodes.
LIS had all but 4 episodes in the "totally unwatchable" category.

Watching the 4 foot Jupiter 2 flying through the explosion and fireball is still almost perfect, despite the model ending up with the pyrotechnics liquid coating the front of the model as it want out of frame.

LOL)Howard Anderson never won anything for Star Trek. L. B. Abbott and Fox won several awards for their work.
Watch the amazing shot in "1941" where the P40 flew under the power lines. All filmed at 120 frames per second.
     
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Mar 18, 2016, 02:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
LIS years 2 and 3 were in color.

"Space hippies" huh? Face it BOTH shows had good and bad episodes.
LIS had all but 4 episodes in the "totally unwatchable" category.

Watching the 4 foot Jupiter 2 flying through the explosion and fireball is still almost perfect, despite the model ending up with the pyrotechnics liquid coating the front of the model as it want out of frame.

LOL)Howard Anderson never won anything for Star Trek. L. B. Abbott and Fox won several awards for their work.
Watch the amazing shot in "1941" where the P40 flew under the power lines. All filmed at 120 frames per second.
Lost is Space is well known as the "Zachary Smith Comedy Hour". Come on, a monkey with a headpiece? Carrot people? Everything past mid-season-one was a horrible joke.

"The comet is red hot" - comets are balls of ice

"The comet will hit in an hour..I can already feel the heat"... WHAT?

Star Trek had THE BEST writers in science fiction writing for the show. Lost is Space had carrots and monkeys.

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Mar 18, 2016, 05:53 PM
 
BTW - Sorry for calling you names. I need to stay away from the intarweb if I've been drinking.

At the time LIS began, they actually didn't know what comets were. They didn't know 'for sure until about 8 months after the horrid line " The heat from that comet may have destroyed whatever life was on board" . I still wince.

I was not discussing the CONTENT of the episodes, just the special effects. Fox had 3 times the budget TOS did. The Enterprise had JUST lighting effects, but still sat on a pipe. The Jupiter 2 models of which there were 2 and the small 10" Gemini 12 (as it was called in the pilot, had no gear or lower level), had both mechanical effects and lights. The 4 foot hero was a very elegant SPFX model with landing gear, mechanical engine effects and later a chaser light device. That model could be moved on a 50 foot mike boom and tilted, rotated etc. The smaller 10" model could be tossed all over the place and had mechanical engine effects and lighting. Comparing Andersons matte work to the high speed photography done by the actual guys who perfected high speed photography (Howard and Theodore Lydecker) while at Republic pictures in the 1940's is apples and oranges. When Republic was acquired by Fox they came along. The same guy who designed Robby the robot for Forbidden planet designed the Jupiter 2 and the robot. I still think the best2 shots Fox did for TV were the Jupiter 2 flying through the fireball/explosion and the Flying sub (Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea) surfacing, accelerating and becoming airborne. Both shots were filmed at 180 frames per second. Its a shame Irwin Allen changed LIS from a serious sci-fi adventure to the Smith & Robot comedy hour. By year 3, unless they were in space, I didn't watch. I'm still a frustrated 2nd unit director. So I do it as a hobby.
     
starman
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Mar 18, 2016, 05:54 PM
 
Star Trek (effects) - iconic

Lost in Space - laughable

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starman
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Mar 18, 2016, 05:57 PM
 
As of a few hours ago, the Axanar IMDB page has been completely wiped clean.

Yesterday, it had a few cast and crew.

Axanar (2016) - IMDb

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reader50
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Mar 18, 2016, 06:11 PM
 
Note: Because this project is categorized as in development, the data is only available on IMDbPro and is subject to change.
They moved all the info behind the IMDB paywall.
     
 
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