[peso68]

I rented a movie to watch with my roommates family a while back.... well... we all rented it. "Lock Stock and 2 smoking barrels". Great movie in my opinion. Anyway, Scott's lil bro was with us (he's 15).

What's slightly concerning is the fact that his parents had NO problem with him watching the spanish gun fight with lots of gore and death..... but they made me fast forward through a scene with a topless woman dancing in the backround.

Weird. Shooting someone with shotgun= OK. Topless woman= EVIL AND WRONG!

wtf?!

- Ca$h

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Darn, I thought you were going to start bashing the U.S.

[peso68]

I am. Don't you find it twisted and disturbing that hard core violence is socially acceptable yet a naked woman is not? What's more beneficial? What's more beautiful? What's pure? What's something you'd rather be doing?

>sigh<

- Ca$h

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Well here is Canada they seem to be very lean with nudity after 9pm on the local stations. Something I appreciate.

Our kids also don't shoot each other up here either.

[Nonsuch]

This argument has been going on a long time, sad to say for our culture. I remember when I was growing up, a friend of mine had a mother who was native-born Italian. She would have Italian-language magazines around the house containing nude photography, with no attempt made to hide it from us kids, and she was adamant that there was nothing wrong with it.

I also remember I had a friend in grad school from Taiwan, whose favorite American tv shows were late-nite titty fests like Silk Stalkings. He thought Americans had an incredibly open and mature attitude toward sex, and I was forced to point out how tragically wrong he was.

[BuonRotto]

Don't worry too much. Some of us Americans find this behavior /bizarre order of priorities curious as well. We joke about blaming Menonites and Mormons. And Canadians of course (sorry, the Canadian jokes do get old, but what the hey).

[Macintosh]

My dad is weird like that too. If i go to rent a movie he will ask if it has nudity. I walked out with JFK and some slashers but was not allowed to see Shakespeare In Love!

[Nimisys]

thats because theres not a clear line between nudity as art and nudity as pr0n in the US culture: "what is pr0n? i don't know how to describe it, but i know it when i see it"

the basic idea is generaly regarding kids pr0n= teh bad, and without a clear definiton that society accepts as a whole, what that line between art/generic nudity, vs pr0n, it is nudity=pr0n=teh bad.

wehere as with violence it is a clearer line with stuff on the TV is not real, so it is not bad.

[scaught]

wow. so the views of one set of parents made you think america as a whole is stupid? pure genius.

[osiris]

Interesting topic - I'm completing a documentary about the Horror genre and one of my points is the hypocracy of American censorship.

One producer I met and interviewed with is Dave Friedman (Color Me Blood Red, Blood Feast) - This man was the FIRST person to make a movie with violent bloody scenes - before all the other slasher films back in the 1950's. The one thing he said that sums it all up is:

"You can cut off a young lady's breast with a hack saw, but God forbid you touch it"

Yeah, America can be very stupid - as most people here are indeed greedy fat lazy idiots. We love our booze but ban drugs, we disapprove of gambling but have these pathetic lotteries where you have a better chance of getting struck by lightning, etc..... go figure - but I love it anyway.

cheers,

[gumby5647]

Ive often wondered why a person can say Sh!t, but not B!tch. To me they are both pretty bad to be saying on regular TV. Even king of the hill gets away with saying Bastard. Haven't the simpson's said Bi!ch once or twice. Makes me wonder who is really running the TV stations.


Then you have jerry springer..........which sounds like the emergency test system, so much beeping...

~gumby~

[Synotic]

Originally posted by gumby5647:
<STRONG>Ive often wondered why a person can say Sh!t, but not B!tch</STRONG>

Actually I think bitch is allowed... I'll be surprised if this board will even censor that..

[Nonsuch]

Originally posted by gumby5647:
<STRONG>Ive often wondered why a person can say Sh!t, but not B!tch. To me they are both pretty bad to be saying on regular TV. Even king of the hill gets away with saying Bastard. Haven't the simpson's said Bi!ch once or twice. Makes me wonder who is really running the TV stations.

</STRONG>

Oh, that reminds me of something that really pisses me off: the continued censoring of religious profanity. How can it be that in the 21st century the major tv networks are still afraid to have a character say "god damn it" or "Jesus Christ" as an expletive?

[osiris]

I think Eric Cartman uses "God Damn it" all the time.

I bet we're 5-10 years away from people killing each other on shows like Jerry Springer - ex-cons or death row prisoners fight it out to the death.

that will be the final straw for all humanity.

[posthumous]

Originally posted by scaught:
<STRONG>wow. so the views of one set of parents made you think america as a whole is stupid? pure genius.</STRONG>

While I agree that the whole of America is not stupid, I do think he's making a valid point. His point is, in fact, so valid that it was a central theme of the movie "South Park: Bigger, Longer, and Uncut." Whether you think the movie is stupid or hilarious, it is indeed interesting that a foul cartoon comedy is so telling about our culture and our worldview. In the movie, Sheila Broflovski say's "horrific, deplorable violence is O.K. as long as people don't say naughty words." Of course this is a stab at our twisted worldview which I somewhat agree with.

There are countries in the world with much less violence than the United States and they show nudity on television more and violence less. I don't think more nudity necessarily pacifies people, well maybe some people, but rather that there may be a correlation between violent imagery and violent societies. Before you go bashing me, I'm American and I have travelled a great deal. Back in 1992 I was in London and was very intrigued when the radio newsperson said "Certainly there has been an increase in crime, but not to the level where we would be considered a violent society like the United States."

My God, is this what the rest of the world thinks of us? Why yes it is! A good part of the world thinks we are crazy. Anyhow, I'll point out that I did feel quite safe walking at night in most countries I visited with the exception of Kenya. Finally, for a "civilized" nation we do have a bit too much violent crime. Even more interesting is that our prisons hold more non-violent offenders of "victimless" crimes than any other nation on earth. There is something wrong with this picture I think. In this picture, I could go on with examples such as the Helms-Burton act, the DMCA, UCITA, Dimitry Skylarov, civil asset forfeiture, and more, but I'll just end it here before I get too excited.

[chris_h]

Originally posted by peso68:
<STRONG>What's more beneficial? What's more beautiful? What's pure? What's something you'd rather be doing?
</STRONG>

Damnit, ca$h, I clicked on this thread expecting to disagree with you

[San Acoustic]

Dispel a myth time: Severed Hand says kids in Canada don't shoot each other.

They shoot each other. At a birthday party, n eight-year-old shot a 12-year-old a while back in Alberta, using Daddy's gun. As well, a couple of years ago a student went nuts with a gun in Taber, Alberta, killing one teen and injuring a bunch more. There have been other school shootings across the country.

Toronto's lastest shooting wave appears to have ended, temporarily. Until three weeks ago, there was a shooting murder once a week for eight weeks or so.

In Calgary, people wave guns around like a cans of insect repellent. Cabbies are shot there regularly.

Gang members in Calgary often use knives, guns being harder to acquire here, although with the U.S. next door, it really isn't a problem. It's a rare month that passes without a kid or five or six being carved up like a roast.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by San Acoustic:
[QB]Dispel a myth time: Severed Hand says kids in Canada don't shoot each other.

Oh please. As if no crime happends in Canada. Compare it to the US though and you will know what I mean.

[bluetooth]

Originally posted by Nonsuch:
<STRONG>

Oh, that reminds me of something that really pisses me off: the continued censoring of religious profanity. How can it be that in the 21st century the major tv networks are still afraid to have a character say "god damn it" or "Jesus Christ" as an expletive?</STRONG>

Have you ever seen "father ted" it was made in ireland and was on every week, boy was it funny they took the piss out of religion, god, and did so many things

unfortunatly for you in america, the americans thought the show was too politically incorrect and banned it over there.

[juanvaldes]

Originally posted by chris_h:
<STRONG>

Damnit, ca$h, I clicked on this thread expecting to disagree with you

</STRONG>

Same here! I have been pissed at the hypocracy of our tv for years, and I don't think it will ever get better....

[iNub]

You know, I've had a chip on my shoulder for a long time about this. I'm not a perfectly moral person, but what I see passing for entertainment in this country is quite disturbing. Prime time TV is a perfect example. Shows will have a character say "God Damn" and they'll bleep out "god." Like some people's icon is more politically offensive than swearing.

The American dollar is another example of the moronic American government. Church and state are supposed to be separated, according to Federal law. We can't teach religion in public school, and all kinds of other crap like that. Yet, our currency says "In God We Trust." ... Where's the logic?

I could repeat all the other stuff that's already been said about violence and sex on TV, but I'd just be a redundant person that repeats things that were already said.

Basically, here's what I think. I found this quote, and it applies so perfectly to the American government that I'm surprised it's not part of Webster's dictionary.

Bureaucrat, n.: A person who cuts red tape sideways.

Thanks for reading my useless post.

[foobars]

A few random comments:

- Cash, America isn't dumb- it was that mother. So she had stupid morales. Some people may share her ideas but I don't. That lame isolated incident doesn't speak for an entire country.

- Network TV censoring IS dumb, but hey they gotta pay the bills and in order to do that they gotta run ads and if they want people to see the ads they have to run programming that people won't be offended by and turn off. Is this because of America's wacky morales? No, it's a product of the almighty dollar. Our capitalist system at work. I, for one, love it. You can watch as much nudity and violence as you want if you just pay a little extra for the cable channels or you can just watch the regular stuff for free. Think of it this way- if we didn't have censoring and channels could put whatever they wanted on we wouldn't have 300 channels and everyone would show the same thing! Be glad you can even GET this regular stuff. I've turned on the BBC more than once in the middle of the night an gotten pretty grossed out by some things I did NOT want to see.

- As for "in god we trust"-- who really cares? It doesn't say "In Allah we trust" or "In a christian god we trust". Give it a rest. Are you offended by the word God? Would you rather have it say "In a Capitalist society we trust" or perhaps "In the bureaucracy we trust"? The constitution is remarkably liberal for something written over 200 years ago--- "endowd by thier creator..." If you really care about this you clearly have nothing else to worry about which means you have plenty of money and happyness-- what does that tell you about America?

- And I would rather live in a country where kids shoot each other than Canada. Ohh the great white north- a country so poor and boring a whole province wants to break away. At least we keep things interesting down here. Oh and we have the bomb and pretty soon the anti-bomb-- WE ARE INVINCIBLE!

[ 08-28-2001: Message edited by: foobars ]

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by foobars:
<STRONG>
- And I would rather live in a country where kids shoot each other than Canada. Ohh the great white north- a country so poor and boring a whole province wants to break away. At least we keep things interesting down here. Oh and we have the bomb and pretty soon the anti-bomb-- WE ARE INVINCIBLE!
</STRONG>

You keep telling yourself that.... until one day BOOM!
Nobody ever suspects Canada.

[funkboy]

Originally posted by iNub:
<STRONG>Church and state are supposed to be separated, according to Federal law. We can't teach religion in public school, and all kinds of other crap like that. Yet, our currency says "In God We Trust." ... Where's the logic?</STRONG>

This was actually added around the time of either World War 1 or 2 (I forget, I think 2) by FDR (someone correct me if I'm wrong) . It was added simply to boost morale among citizens of the US - this was before the media was required to keep gaining more and more ratings from a stagnant amount of audience.

And I'd have to say I agree with a lot in this thread - kids nowadays are much, much more obsessed with cleavage than with violence - but since violence is seen so often, that's something they do anyway. Since sex is so forbidden, we have people who don't properly know how to do it (safely and whatnot) . If this stuff wouldn't be so taboo we'd probably have a country of peaceful pimps...

[iNub]

At the risk of turning this into a flame war...

First of all, "In God We Trust" was an example of how backwards the people in charge are. I was making a statement that all religion is supposed to be legally separated from state, not that the American govt is Christian. And yes, God is just as much a religious icon as Allah or whatever you said. Just because it's the most common doesn't mean it's right, according to their rules. It's a case of the government blatantly breaking the rules they made.

Second, FDR wasn't president during WWI. I'm not too clear on the whole church and state thing, but I'm pretty sure there is some kind of law restricting religion in public institutions.

Besides, I was simply hinting that the "God" written on the dollar bill isn't the god that you'd think. It's the god the American government, big business, etc.. worship.

*Stops short of a rant*

I'm sure this doesn't make a whole lot of sense to you all, it's not a very well formed thought. Oh well. Flame away.

[San Acoustic]

Year Denomination

1864 Two-cent piece
1866 Quarter, Half Dollar, Dollar, all gold coins
1909 One cent
1916 Ten cent
1938 Five cent
1955 Made mandatory on all coins by an act of Congress

In 1861:

J-277 Half Dollar Silver "GOD OUR TRUST" in a scroll above eagle on reverse
J-278 Half Dollar Copper
-same-

J-279 Half Dollar Silver "GOD OUR TRUST" in field above eagle on reverse (no scroll)
J-280 Half Dollar Copper
-same-

J-284 Eagle Gold "GOD OUR TRUST" in a scroll above eagle on reverse
J-285 Eagle Copper
-same-

J-286 Eagle Gold "GOD OUR TRUST" in field above eagle on reverse (no scroll)
J-287 Eagle Copper
-same-
http://www.coinlibrary.com/info/ingodwetrust.html

[otis52]

DESENSITIZED NATION
i live in miami florida where owning a gun and carring it on a daily basis is the norm. their have been 2 people killed in the surrounding 4 blocks one in our warehouse district with in the past month. so you can say what ever you'd like about us americans bring f@#$ed because for the most part your right. but where i from if you get caught slip'n it's gonna be you ass lay'n on the street.

politics+money+greed+music+tv+videogames+society=d esensitization

[simonjames]

Is it true that years ago on American Teley you couldn't show someone drinking beer in a commercial? Or was that just some States within America?

There is a scene in "The People Versus Larry Flint" which I feel sums up this topic all too well - anyone here seen it?

Finally - I've also heard that American censors don't know what the English word "bollocks" means and so they never bleep it out - as in "Ad Fab" - is this true?

[Demonhood]

Originally posted by simonjames:
Is it true that years ago on American Teley you couldn't show someone drinking beer in a commercial? Or was that just some States within America?

You still can't show that now. Beer commercials show the beer, show people holding it, but they never take sips. The thinking being (I'm guessing here) that they aren't showing any consequences of consuming alcohol, so the viewing public (who they assume are morons) might see this as saying alcohol has no side effects.

There was even, for like 20 years or so, a voluntary ban on hard alcohol ads on TV. I think absolut broke it a few years ago and the politicians were all pissy about it.

Finally - I've also heard that American censors don't know what the English word "bollocks" means and so they never bleep it out - as in "Ad Fab" - is this true?

I'm sure they know what it means, but I don't think they care. Foreign curse words (even British ones) don't matter to them.

[tonton]

I'm sorry, but all you who say that "the mother is stupid" have never lived in another country.

The mother is shocked for her 16 year-old to see breasts in a movie because that is how American society tells her to react.

In almost every european country there is commercialized nudity on public television. This is accepted because Europeans are smart enough to know that nudity is not a bad thing, and they are not ashamed of it. Americans are ashamed, tight-assed puritans when it comes to sex.

But do you think TV in the US is bad? Try Hong Kong. Get this... HBO, on cable, PAID for and not public... censors out all nudity. Of course there is only one HBO for Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, and I think India as well, and they probably censor especially for the muslims in Indonesia, Malaysia and India. In Hong Kong legitimate XXX movies are completely illegal even to buy from a video store. But you can walk down to the corner where a 14 year-old kid is selling pirated porn movies.

If I were the adult movie industry, I would sue Asian governments for cracking down hard on legitimate adult movies, while being powerless against pirated porn (of low quality). I'm sure the monetary value lost is tremendous!

Then, we move to violence. You turn on TVB Jade (90% of the TV market in HK) and you see Chow Yun Fat blowing off someone's head with a pistol in each hand. Pulp Fiction... on TV, uncensored, even the "rear windshield" scene.

Where the hell does society get these screwed up values?

Then, there are the Muslim countries...
A muslim woman shows her arms and she is severely punished by society. Meanwhile you have all these maniacs screaming "Jihad" who are blowing innocent people up in the name of religion.

I'm starting to think the more sex is accepted and celebrated, the more peaceful a given society is. The more it is censored, the more violent society becomes.

Testosterone has got to go somewhere, and if it doesn't go to the penis, it apparently goes to the trigger finger.

[foobars]

Originally posted by simonjames:
<STRONG>Is it true that years ago on American Teley you couldn't show someone drinking beer in a commercial? Or was that just some States within America?</STRONG>

True! This is a really good thing though. Beer commercials would be NOWHERE as entertaining and creative as they are right now if it weren't for that rule.

<STRONG>
Finally - I've also heard that American censors don't know what the English word "bollocks" means and so they never bleep it out - as in "Ad Fab" - is this true?</STRONG>

You can use any foreign swear you want. Shag shag shaggity shag shag!

If you ask me, America is the superpower it is now thanks to TV regulation. The government knows how to keep it's people productive. If you started to show nudity on normal TV think of how inefficent everyone would be. I certainly would stop working and sit at home all day. The economy would die. No, no- it's much better to show lots of violence on the news and keep people uptight and thinking how much better we are than anyone else. That way when the government calls on us to fight these lesser countries we can act as mindless killing machines! It's the American way!

Fear the US and it's stupid rules- If you're on our side: YOU'RE NOTHING WITHOUT US, if you're not: YOU SHOULD BE BECAUSE WE HAVE THE BOMB!!!

We're #1! We're #1! We're #1! We're #1!

[foobars]

Candian women are scary!
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/2001...otum_dc_1.html

[osiris]

A business pal of mine who travels to Singapore often tells me that not only is nudity banned from TV, but average every day citizens 'can't show amorous affection to each other in public' - ya know - making out, french kissing, etc.

AND you can't be a man AND wear your hair long either. Not to mention that you can't curse in public either or God forbid you should want to protest anything the government does. This place sounds like the US in a few year...

[Demonhood]

shortest article ever on the subject

[San Acoustic]

American women are scarier. http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3762/chip3.htm

[bryh28]

Here's a few random thoughts:

We have a terrestrial broadcaster in the British Isles called Channel 5 who are famed for the Friday night adult-movie because it is a novelty that wasn't here before.
We also have a live weekly political discussion show on the BBC called Question Time. One week on Question Time the controller of Channel 5 was asked by a member of the audience why they relied so heavily on porn, making the observation that even whilst they talked Channel 5 was screening some sexually-oriented programme. Apparently at that point the ratings for Channel 5 hit an all-time high.

When you talk about America being confused in attitudes to sex and violence you compare European liberalism. But you're viewing Europe as a monolith, forgetting that it is a collection of countries with different cultures and attitudes. Conversley, can you not consider America as being the same mix of attitudes and by seeing the country as "United States" you ignore this fact and start charging yourself as being hypocrites?

Finally, we have a comedy show called Brass Eye which explores events in the guise of a cable news show. A few weeks back this programme covered public hysteria surrounding Paedophillia ( a BIG news story last summer that included attacks on the home of a paediatrician in a case of mistaken/misunderstood identity). We had politicians who hadn't even seen the show appearing on TV to condemn the programme. Now that's hypocrisy.

Bryh

[zigzag]

- Violence and sex are related in some ways, but nonetheless they're two different things. Sex is much more personal in nature, so it's not that hard to understand why some people are queasy about it, even nudity, especially around their children or parents.

- It's true that the US has a strong Puritanical streak, but you have to put it in perspective. Compared to most of the world, the US is an ongoing porn movie. Comparing it only to certain European cultures doesn't tell us that much.

- In this century, most sexually suggestive popular culture has originated in the US (actually most popular culture, period). Jazz, Sinatra, Elvis, Mae West, Madonna, the porn industry, etc. This is both despite and because of its Puritanical traditions - people will always need an outlet for their hormonal impulses, and they often find it in sublimated forms in music, movies, etc. If we were more blase about sex, like some Europeans, we'd probably be a lot more boring culturally. It's that tension between Puritanism and hormones that makes for great entertainment. It's also partly a result of the interaction of European and Afro-American cultures, which themselves have different sexual values.

- I'm sure that there's a kid somewhere in Europe saying "Geez, they'll let me watch people running around naked, but they won't let me watch some make-believe violence? What hypocrites!"

[roders]

RIP Father Ted, rest in peace.... (the actor that payed him that his).
This programe defines the word "Humour" for me.
Hey Bluetooth, ever noticed that the word "Wacky" rhymes with "Paddy"

Sorry, I couldne help it!

Does anyone now any good Irishman jokes???

[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: roders ]

[Asimuth]

OK, you Americans have had enough opportunity for self-flagellation, it's time for some external criticism...

The world does think you are a violent society - it's certainly the pervading view in Australia. What we can't understand is why you aren't better at it! It seems every time you have someone go postal and start shooting randomly they don't get the kills they should. Walk into a crowded McDonalds with an AK47 (4 clips) and a .45 pistol (2 clips) and only kill 6 people with a dozen more injured! This is seriously bad shooting.

When Australians go troppo they get good stats - usually more kills than wounds. This is the sort of professionalism we'd like to see out of US whackos! I think you need a Top Gun school for trainee mass murderers to get their kill ratio up. Maybe you could start it in Tasmania - foreign training ground available.

I'd also like to see more nudity in you gun-toting nutters, then we would be allowed to see the video on the news and you wouldn't.

[Nonsuch]

Originally posted by Asimuth:
<STRONG>OK, you Americans have had enough opportunity for self-flagellation, it's time for some external criticism...

The world does think you are a violent society - it's certainly the pervading view in Australia.</STRONG>

And the really tragic thing is that most of us are so used to it we don't even realize just how much violence we've come to regard as normal.

Back when I was attending school in London, my father was terribly distressed to find out I was visiting Ireland. All he knew was what he saw on the news -- or thought he saw on the news -- about Catholic and Protestant paramilitaries bombing buildings etc etc. It didn't seem to sink in when I explained that even with all the tension and conflict, Belfast was still a statistically safer place to live than Chicago, where he grew up and lived his whole life. (And I wasn't even going to Belfast--I was going to Dublin!) I think if Americans knew what it was like to live in a genuinely safe environment we'd be a lot less tolerant and passive in the face of the violence pervading our country.

[Justin Belisle]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
<STRONG>Well here is Canada they seem to be very lean with nudity after 9pm on the local stations. Something I appreciate.

Our kids also don't shoot each other up here either.</STRONG>

That's so true. Tune in to City TV (local toronto station, on cable in ottawa) after 10pm and it's all porn. Same on Showcase.

You're wrong about the school shooting part. There's been alot of school shootings in Canada. There was a guy who went on a rampage and stabbed people in a high school near where I live.

[Justin Belisle]

Originally posted by foobars:
<STRONG>Candian women are scary!
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/2001...otum_dc_1.html</STRONG>

That story is all over the news here.