[Hornet]

Apple respond to feedback, especially lots of it. They added features to 10.1 that weren't there before, and even 10.0, due to public demand.

Lets get some features in there! Send them a heap of feedback, and get others too also, so we get more mails in.

Here's my list I just sent in. I'd love to see all these features

1. Spring loaded folders
This is self explanatory.

2. Window and menu borders
I would like to see drop down menus, images, windows etc to have a border around it. This would have a clarify benifit, and a "final touch" benifit.

3. DRAG-ABLE BORDERS
This is critical! A major flaw in OSX is the inability to move windows from locations other than the titlebar! Efficiency would be improved immensely, dragging windows would be "sped up" dramatically.

4. Dropdown menu scrolling
This is a critical flaw in the current iteration of OSX. When, lets say an item in the finder is control-clicked, towards toe bottom of the screen, the contextual menu that results has major problems. There should NOT BE a scroll up arrow, as appears, unless the menu extends beyond the full vertical height of the screen. This is UTTERLY, utterly annoying. Lets examine this in detail. First, I control click the item. The menu appears. Secondly, I have to scroll UP the list with my mouse. Finally all the options are visible, and the BLANK SPACE up the top is removed. Third, I have to scroll back down the menu, to get to my desired target (bottom of the menu). Fourth, and finally, I click or release the mouse on this item.

4 steps to achieve a goal that should only take 2 clicks. Massive efficiency loss. These kinds of "additional user work" flaws result in workflow efficiency feeling very slow. Please please fix this.

5. Improved contextual menus.
Additional options, capacity for 3rd parties to add in "contextual menu plugins" (like stuffit in OS9). A facility to open the item in another program

CDRW erase in the popup menu? Would be great

6. Global or local FINDER TOOLBAR's
I believe this would be a fantastic addition to Mac OSX. The facility to change the finder toolbar in a particular folder, for functions specific to that, or to change it on a global basis. This could be an extension of the existing "view options", which can be global or local. What would be needed, is a set of radio buttons offered, at the bottom of the finder toolbar customisation window, "local" and "global".

How would this be useful? Lets examine a senario. Take the example of the "Pictures" folder. What I would like in my global toolbar: the default + shortcuts to important folders. What I would like in the pictures folder: Only the back and view mode change buttoms, + Photoshop alias + print centre alias.

Another example, say my Movies folder. What I would like in the local toolbar: Quicktime alias, iMovie alias, Final cut pro alias, and anything elsr relevant to this.

This would be an excellent feature to add.

7. Windowshade
I realise this is a 3rd party addition, but something like this MUST become a component of OSX anyhow. Its a fantastic way to see the window behind what you are working on. Make it an alternate function of the minimise button, changable in a prefs pane.
Analyse: 1, Move mouse to windowshade button. 2. Press it. Done. When your finished. Press it again. As opposed to, moving to it, clicking, moving away. Then the reverse again.

8. Search function WITHIN the window you are in
A little search bar, in the toolbar, allowing a Mail sort of sorting function. Turn the window into list view while doing this. This would make it so much easier to find items when there are many items in a window.

9. Finder window column information bug squashed
What happens: I boot my machine, hit the Mac icon to popup a finder window. Problem: my column settings are totally awash. Close the window, hit the Mac icon again, a window with the right settings pops up, and works from then on. Please fix this.

10. Preview pane in finder improvements
First of all, number one rule: Don't make user target icons a moving target! Make the preview pop out in a drawer, so that the user doesn't have it moving across the screen when they click on the icon of the item

11. Preview plane improvements
Please have a full "get info" set of information available in the preview (with a arrow-tab to turn it on or off). Information on name, kind, size, location path, dates, version.

This would make a more functional pane

12. Dock menu item dropping navigation
Allow the user to drop an item into an item in the dock items hierarchy, become a dock-like hierarchical menu into which you can drop items into any sub-directory

Whatcha think?

[IUJHJSDHE]

I did not read all of your feed back but the parts I did read I agreed with.

[Diggory Laycock]

1. Spring loaded folders
This is self explanatory.

8. Search function WITHIN the window you are in
A little search bar, in the toolbar, allowing a Mail sort of sorting function. Turn the window into list view while doing this. This would make it so much easier to find items when there are many items in a window.

These are coming in 10.2 - which is good news.

12. Dock menu item dropping navigation
Allow the user to drop an item into an item in the dock items hierarchy, become a dock-like hierarchical menu into which you can drop items into any sub-directory

Totally agree - I sent this as feedback long ago - I hope that this is something we can expect in 10.2 - It such an obviously valuable gesture.

5. Improved contextual menus.
Additional options, capacity for 3rd parties to add in "contextual menu plugins" (like stuffit in OS9). A facility to open the item in another program

3rd parties can already - have you seen Zingg or X-Ray? (http://www.brockerhoff.net/)
I personally think the "services" menu should also be available through contextual menus.

6. Global or local FINDER TOOLBAR's

Absolutely right! I had a similar idea and sent it into apple - I suggest others do to.

I hope apple adds this ability to the finder's toolbar - it is severely limited at the moment (currently either you are constantly dragging things in/out of it or you have a relatively constricted global toolbar.)

(here's an opportunity to show off my mock-up again!)



[ 04-23-2002: Message edited by: Diggory Laycock ]

[Hornet]

Hey, your the one who gave me the idea
I saw the pic in the dock thread. Well done, I like it!!

I also like the style of click on button you have.... as opposed to just the icon, its a box.

What we need to do is make a big list, detailed well, and everyone can send it off to apple. Keep suggesting things people! (and rememberL even IF third parties can do it, we still want it included by default!)

[Eug]

Those are luxury features.

I'd rather just have a stable non-buggy and fast Finder and OS.

[Nonsuch]

At least no one's clamored for the Application Menu to come back. (Yet.)

[Nonsuch]

I'm not seeing the purpose of that toolbar mockup. You can already navigate hierarchically through folders in the Dock and through the Finder column view itself. This just adds needless redundancy.

[dazzla]

Originally posted by Eug:
<STRONG>Those are luxury features.

I'd rather just have a stable non-buggy and fast Finder and OS.</STRONG>

I second that big time. I'm a new convert, I bought an iMac last week and it seems to me that in parts the OS is slower then my year-old Sony VAIO laptop!

and they've really gotta sort out the web browsing on OS X...

[Richard Clark]

The tool bar needs a forward button to offset the back button. Well, ... you know what I mean. It seems stupid to be able to go backwards through but not to go forward. Instead having to click on and through everything. It's practically a browser style but there's nothing wrong with it unless Apple is next up for an Anti-Trust case.



heh!

I'm kind of at the point of waiting for 10.2 to see what's been done and go from there. It just would be very nice to have the windows remember the settings and organize them the way I do it. It's a pain in the keester to set to arrange by name and small icons only for it to not be remember at the next restart.

Well, we'll see. Apple does listen. I'll give you that but they're still slow. What's more they're still using single button mice.

[noisefloor]

FIX THE BUGS IN THE FINDER!

Thank you.

[OwlBoy]

Originally posted by Diggory Laycock:
<STRONG>

(here's an opportunity to show off my mock-up again!)



[ 04-23-2002: Message edited by: Diggory Laycock ]</STRONG>

Now that is a cool idea. and let files be draged and droped onto the apps depending on if the app can open the file.

-Owl

[Diggory Laycock]

and let files be draged and droped onto the apps depending on if the app can open the file.

You can do that already. People tend to put frequently used apps in the dock though because toolbar real-estate is so valuable compared to dock space.

I'm not seeing the purpose of that toolbar mockup. You can already navigate hierarchically through folders in the Dock and through the Finder column view itself. This just adds needless redundancy.

The point is not the heirachical menus (that's a luxury) - The point is the toolbar is customisable on a per-directory basis (or alternatively several toolbar item sets are available.)

What this means is that the toolbar doesn't fill-up quite so suddenly (who here can say that they have spare space in their finder toolbar?)

This also means that the toolbar can become context sensitive - in each directory you can have the appropriate items relevant to that area of your filesystem.

It's the opposite idea of those dock-switching apps.

The problem with the current system of dock and toolbar is that they are both doing the same thing - displaying frequently used items - and they are both doing it 'globally.'

The dock-switching guys believe that the dock's items should change depending on the context you are working in. I believe that the Finder's toolbar should change depending on the "place" you are in in the file-system.

[Adam Betts]

Originally posted by Richard Clark:
<STRONG>The tool bar needs a forward button to offset the back button. Well, ... you know what I mean. It seems stupid to be able to go backwards through but not to go forward. Instead having to click on and through everything. It's practically a browser style but there's nothing wrong with it unless Apple is next up for an Anti-Trust case.</STRONG>

In OS X Public Beta, they did have forward button but for some reason they removed it in 10.0. I think they did that to prevent further confusion. The forward button graphic is still there in Finder though.

But you can go forward a folder by clicking CMD + Down Arrow

[aafuss]

I agree with number 1- I use spring loaded folder in Mac OS 8- that's a excellent addition to Mac OS X. Also the "labels" feature that was in System 7.0- 9 could be reinstated in Mac OS X 10.2. Maybe I would suggest this to Microsoft too (those 2 wouldf also be good in the next version of Windows)

[lookmark]

Originally posted by Diggory Laycock:
<STRONG>

The point is not the heirachical menus (that's a luxury) - The point is the toolbar is customisable on a per-directory basis (or alternatively several toolbar item sets are available.)

[snip]

The problem with the current system of dock and toolbar is that they are both doing the same thing - displaying frequently used items - and they are both doing it 'globally.'

The dock-switching guys believe that the dock's items should change depending on the context you are working in. I believe that the Finder's toolbar should change depending on the "place" you are in in the file-system.</STRONG>

It's a good idea, although some of us use the toolbar in a global way -- for example, I actually do like a global toolbar that doesn't change.

The question is how you let the user know when you adjusting a global toolbar, or when you're making a toolbar specific to a certain folder?

I'm not arguing against the idea, but I'm curious how something like this would be resolved.

[Xeo]

We already have the best feature of all.

[Justin W. Williams]

Multiple Login would rock. Just switch users rather than logging out.

[aafuss]

Windows Xp can sawitch users without logging out (fast user switching)- a great suggestion for OS X.

[Diggory Laycock]

The question is how you let the user know when you adjusting a global toolbar, or when you're making a toolbar specific to a certain folder?

Good point! I suppose there could be a toolbar item widget like "view" that shows which mode you are in and allows selection of other modes.

[Amorya]

A few points I disagree with:

Window borders: NOOOOOO!!!! I was really glad to see the back of them. They always infuriated me, and I hardly ever found them useful.

Scrolling popup menus. The current behaviour is correct in most cases: if there is a selected or checked item, it should always appear under the mouse. If that means scrolling, so be it. If there is no selected item, then it's a good idea to not scroll.

Amorya

[Amorya]

btw, I'm not being all negative: the rest of the points I love, especially the finder toolbar one.

Amorya

[undotwa]

I agree, much of Aqua is based around the idea of 'shadows as the border'. I like the effect too anyway. I rarely ever used window borders anyway.

[lookmark]

Originally posted by Diggory Laycock:
<STRONG>

Good point! I suppose there could be a toolbar item widget like "view" that shows which mode you are in and allows selection of other modes.</STRONG>

Or perhaps a little slider at the end of the toolbar (similar widget as in the bottom of iPhoto) to toggle between global and local...

But it does add a layer of complexity to an otherwise very simple, easy-to-grasp feature. So I'm not sure I can see this addition in Apple's near future.

But there's a good 3rd party opportunity here, if someone's brave enough to hack the Finder...


[edit: now meets minimal grammatical standards.]

[ 04-24-2002: Message edited by: lookmark ]

[Agent69]

I am generally happy with MacOS X, so my 2 suggestions are more specific:

1. Remake the Finder as a threaded Cocca application. I think that the current, carbon-based Finder isn't responsive enough.

2. Optional installation of items such as Internet Explorer, iTunes, Mail, etc. I like the way MacOS 9 did it; where it defaulted to installing everything but gave the user of option of not doing so.