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tz3gm · Nov 7, 2001, 09:17 PM

where are they? damn, i am a devout mac user and will never go to windows xp, but shi+ they're commercials look damn good, if i was a dumb user i would be like sheesh that stuff is cool...and i know u all have seen it...it's such a rip off, they show an iTunes like app and an iMovie like app...all of which appeared on the MAC first...

shi+, does anyone know when apple is planning to go on a massive ad campaign?

brown monk · Nov 7, 2001, 09:24 PM

My guess is that they are not coming...

I've never seen an Apple commercial for software...

jdbon · Nov 7, 2001, 09:33 PM

No commercials for software? What about all those iTunes commercials, the iDVD commercial over the summer? And the iMovie commercial for the original iMac DV? Apple needs to advertise OSX. I'm sick of seeing that dumb Windows XP commercial over and over and over again! (Not to mention that annoying Pentium 4 alien commercial). The irony of these two adds is that they advertise features Apple introduced. For example the pentium commercial touts the Pentium 4 "as the center of your digital" a.k.a digital hub. the Windows XP commercial advertises its built in wireless networking ability as well as the built in video software. Not only do these ads copy Apple's innovations, but they're just plain stupid. Apple needs to let the world know that not only do they offer the "same" features as windows, but they do it better (easier to use, less haggles etc.). Recent Apple adds have attempted to be funny, but have come off as just being stupid. Apple needs a new aggressive add campain. If the public doesn't know about OSX and iApps than how does Apple expect people to switch. Educating people is the way to go.

juanvaldes · Nov 8, 2001, 12:20 AM

I kinda feel like they have given up on TV adds in favor of word of mouth via their new stores. Sure as hell feels like it....They had their chance in the beginning of Oct but they just let the time slip by, probably figured that after the 11th the public was not in the mood for buying computers and such saved the advertising money.

tz3gm · Nov 8, 2001, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by juanvaldes:
I kinda feel like they have given up on TV adds in favor of word of mouth via their new stores. Sure as hell feels like it....They had their chance in the beginning of Oct but they just let the time slip by, probably figured that after the 11th the public was not in the mood for buying computers and such saved the advertising money.

those stupid XP ads are pissing me off!

KellyHogan · Nov 8, 2001, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by tz3gm:
where are they?

Advertising the Mac is the same thing. In the Windows world it is different because they have a larger choice of OSes and Microsoft want to convince them to use XP. They also have the money to waste. Apple needs to save the money to produce hardware and software products.

DannyVTim · Nov 8, 2001, 03:05 PM

There is no getting around advertising. Apple still needs to run ads on TV.

Richard Clark · Nov 8, 2001, 04:01 PM

What it comes down to is this - Apple does not have a good marketing group in place. They've squandered more time, money and chances to get an edge up on XP but didn't. They don't know what they're doing.

This was apparent when I spoke with them at MacWorld. Until Jobs pulls his head out of his but and get some people in there who really can market Apple products you aren't going to see OS X commercials.

I've written in a ton of threads on this subject. So for that I'm not going to elaborate otherwise I'm going to go on another rant. It sure would be nice to see the marketing changed. A lot could be changed. Including marketshare!

kevmo · Nov 8, 2001, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by DannyVTim:
There is no getting around advertising. Apple still needs to run ads on TV.

I agree.

Think about it. If apple ran commercials about the G4 crushing the pentium as much as intel runs commercials.. everyone may actually know what a G4 is.

OverclockedHomoSapien · Nov 8, 2001, 05:33 PM

If I have to choose between Jeff Goldblum OS X ads, and none, I chose none.

Apple don't need no stinkin' ads anyways...word of mouth will spread the secret of Apple. Like an underground movement, a grassroots effort, Mac users will grow in number and turn out in droves for the chance to use OS X.

Those XP ads suck, and they make me happy that Apple isn't advertising alongside of that crap. All those XP ads prove to me is that M$ spent lots of money on advertising. Nothing more, nothing less.

Brit Ben · Nov 8, 2001, 05:39 PM

Welcome to apple's new tv advertising campaign:

Black screen, white text, fades in to show for ten seconds:

"We spent as much money on making Mac OS X reliable as Microsoft spent on their TV adverts. Which would you rather ?"

fades out to be replaced with:

Think different.
Apple Logo

[short, sweet and simple]. Hope someone at apple is listening. If anyone can make a quicktime clip of this, post it here, and we can all mail it to Jobs, it would be sweet.

Ben.

Fotek2001 · Nov 8, 2001, 05:46 PM

Apple can't rely on it's stores and word of mouth to do anything about the sales situation for Macs outside of the US because there are no Apple stores outside the US and the only word of mouth is likely to be somewhat negative.

More and more these days, Apple seems focused too much on the US market. You need look no further than OS X which, for example, only offers spellchecking in US English - not very useful for those of us who don't use US English or don't even use English at all. If Apple really wants to make an impression it should wake up to the fact that there is a world of opportunity outside the United States of America.

In the UK we still have problems getting our free updates to Mac OS X 10.1, in Greece, you can't buy any Mac that properly supports the Greek alphabet, there is no support on the Mac for Arabic text and virtually everywhere on Earth apart from the the US, a Mac is more expensive to buy.

Apple has an image problem to overcome that goes far beyond a simple lack of marketing for it's operating system. Rightly or wrongly many people still look at Macs as overpriced and underpowered and that's not going to change until Apple really pulls out all the stops to make its products more universally appealing.

Robert Jung · Nov 8, 2001, 05:50 PM

Originally posted by Brit Ben:
"We spent as much money on making Mac OS X reliable as Microsoft spent on their TV adverts. Which would you rather ?"

Change it to, "We spent our advertising budget on making our computers better. Microsoft spent theirs on commercials. Which would you prefer?" and it'll pass muster.

Brit Ben · Nov 8, 2001, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by Robert Jung:


Change it to, "We spent our advertising budget on making our computers better. Microsoft spent theirs on commercials. Which would you prefer?" and it'll pass muster.

Yep, I like that, although the original comment was advertising the OS. Any resident uicktime experts around ?

Cheers,
Ben

Nonsuch · Nov 8, 2001, 11:47 PM

Right now Apple has nothing compelling to advertise apart from the iPod, and those commercials will hit the air soon enough. OS X is still too immature for the masses to adopt; at the very least they need a finished AOL client. The PowerMacs haven't added any compelling features since the SuperDrive (see below), and the 'Books, though having both received a nice speed bump, aren't strictly anything new.

No, Apple's next advertising push will come once you can buy an iMac with a SuperDrive, which Jobs suggested could happen next year. Right now a DVD editing system is too expensive for anyone who's not either a dedicated video hobbyist or blessed with lots of disposable income. But once you can buy an all-in-one DVD-authoring system at an iMac price point, you'll see the commercials come out--and you'll probably see the machines fly off the shelves.

Subzero Diesel949 · Nov 9, 2001, 12:00 AM

Given the way Apple markets its products, and if there will ever be an OS X ad, one can expect to see:

-Pulsing buttons
-Genie effects (Dock)
-Bouncing icons

Of course, nothing about how X is better than XP. Just Aqua in its full glory...

grand illusion · Nov 9, 2001, 12:01 AM

if only they made another one of THESE

Brit Ben · Nov 9, 2001, 11:41 PM

Originally posted by Nonsuch:
 at the very least they need a finished AOL client.

Yes, yes, thats it. The hold up in Apple adverts is down to not having an AOL client. What an absolute crock.

I still have .aol.com deny all in EVERY system I use, firewalls, routers and wherever I can insert it. AOL is a virus.

Just my $0.02
Ben.

Nonsuch · Nov 10, 2001, 12:04 AM

Originally posted by Brit Ben:


Yes, yes, thats it. The hold up in Apple adverts is down to not having an AOL client. What an absolute crock.

I still have .aol.com deny all in EVERY system I use, firewalls, routers and wherever I can insert it. AOL is a virus.

Just my $0.02
Ben.

I suggest that you're not indicative of the 25+ million AOL subscribers Apple might conceivably like to convert to Macintosh. I hope you know more about system administration than you do about marketing.

SecretAgentX · Nov 10, 2001, 12:20 AM

Apple sells solutions, not operating systems.
All of Apple's commercials lately have been about solutions.

Solutions also sell better than operating systems.
If Apple has a commercial that is selling OS X, that means that they have run out of solutions to talk about in thier ads.

OS X is just the backdrop of the solution to a problem, or want or need. It should not be sold as is, but with a solution in mind.

I'd much rather see an iPod commercial that shows OS X briefly than an OS X commercial that briefly shows an iPod, without telling me what that iPod thingy is.

Everyone knows what an operating system is.
The question becomes, "what can I do with this?".
Certainly not fly around the room!!!

prutz11 · Nov 11, 2001, 06:36 PM

Originally posted by Brit Ben:
Welcome to apple's new tv advertising campaign:

Black screen, white text, fades in to show for ten seconds:

"We spent as much money on making Mac OS X reliable as Microsoft spent on their TV adverts. Which would you rather ?"

fades out to be replaced with:

Think different.
Apple Logo

[short, sweet and simple]. Hope someone at apple is listening. If anyone can make a quicktime clip of this, post it here, and we can all mail it to Jobs, it would be sweet.

Ben.

Okay... I can make a little something something, but what about saying...

"While other companies spend a billion dollars speaking for their products, we build products that speak for themselves...

fades to...

Think Different."

Whadda ya think? Could say spend their time...
-Will[/LIST]

ColonelSawtooth · Nov 11, 2001, 09:40 PM

I'd be willing to throw together one of the above-mentioned ads in QuickTime . Any more suggestions for the content of the white text?

Brit Ben · Nov 11, 2001, 09:57 PM

Originally posted by ColonelSawtooth:
I'd be willing to throw together one of the above-mentioned ads in QuickTime . Any more suggestions for the content of the white text?

LOL !
Fantastic.

As much as I love some of the other suggestions, including visuals and so on... I think theres an awful lot of power in the simple, text only advert just to prove the money is being spent on other things...

As for one of the other comments above....
The 25+ million PC AOL users who would instantly jump to mac just because there's an OSX AOL client ? I think not. You are the weakest link, Goodbye.

This would be the same AOL who recently had to have it explained that they couldn't actaully give away 1000 hours of access in 30 days since, there are actually only 720 hours in 30 days. So they changed the promotion to 45 days. I like the fact that apple users are typically much more intelligent than this. Oh, and by the way...

<flamebait>
I work in Marketing for a very sucessful multinational corporation

</flaimbait>

Ben.

KidRed · Nov 12, 2001, 12:10 AM

For about the 20th time,

Apple will not advertise for OS X until it's at 12:00. Right now it's at 6:00 so we have a few more hours for OS X before we should see any commercials. Besides, we don't hae any of the major Adobe/MM apps yet.

BTP · Nov 12, 2001, 12:51 AM

Ads or no, the stores will be a good place to expand the user base.

if you have not been to one, i suggest a trip.i have been and just watched. And looked. If people just go in, they will see solutions, not just products, and if my experience is the norm, then Apple has anice hit on their hands.

People that come in looking to work with DV see a solution and the salespeople are really good. I saw some Apple fans every visit, but more importantly, I saw people showing the products to people.

One problem Apple had was getting product in front of people and combating myths. I have heard one that Apple stores employees and myself have put down, time and again. "But I don't want to isolate myself from the rest of the world that uses windows"(or a close variant) For some reason, people think (or are told) that they cannot share data with windows users, which of course is not true.

There are so many misconceptions out there that while commercials might help, the stores and word of mouth will do a better job. This is not to say that they should not advetise; this is to say that a commercail that would help inform and dispel myths would be so long that people would tune out even if they would make a 10 minutes commercial with a speed talking announcer or a scrolling text (a la the opening of Star Wars) speeding by.

If my computer were to run 1MHZ faster for every person that i educated about a Mac, I'd have the fastest computer for the next 10 years.

Whomever said Apple sells solutions said it best; that's what they do, that's what they'll sell, whether we like it or not. However, I don't want OS X to be the best kept secret.

motoyen · Nov 12, 2001, 01:26 AM

I wonder if this has anything to do with the agreement Apple signed with Microsoft a few years ago right when Steve Jobs took over. I remember reading at the time that in exchange for all the $ Microsoft gave Apple; Apple was not allowed to directly compare Mac OS to Windows.

I noticed that a lot of the "evangelist" stuff disappeared from Apple after that deal. Also whenever Steve does a demo on stage it is always Apple vs. Pentium. He talks a lot about how MHz means nothing and how great the Apple architecture is but he never comes out and says that the Mac OS is better than Windows.

KidRed · Nov 12, 2001, 01:31 AM

I heard the same. I also heard that that deal ends this year. Hopefully next year will mark a great one in Apple's history -OSX (at 12:00), G5 (or so), new re-designed iMac, those new digtal devices (iPod buddies) and hopefully more Apple stores and advertising!!

m a d r a · Nov 12, 2001, 12:39 PM

Apple sells solutions, not operating systems.
All of Apple's commercials lately have been about solutions.

Solutions also sell better than operating systems.

[rant]
jesus i hate that f**kin "solutions" bollox!!! it's usually found on glossy adverts featuring clip photography clich�d suit wearing hunky square-jawed, steely eyed, fluorescent white plastic toothed mannekins, placed by companies who don't do anything anyone can actually pin down.

f**kin solutions!!! as if life was a series of problems, insurmountable by us pathetic losers without the aid of a sir galahad in the form of some tit in a suit to rescue us.

if apple ever starts trying to sell me a bloody "solution" i'm going to windoze straight away.

it's nearly as annoying as those businessmen who say "K" instead of thousand

[/rant]

er... [wipes rabid froth from lips].....sorry! for some reason those two gems of corporate speech just get my back up every time i hear them.

Brit Ben · Nov 12, 2001, 05:44 PM

Originally posted by m a d r a:


[rant]
jesus i hate that f**kin "solutions" bollox!!! i

f**kin solutions!!! as if life was a series of problems, insurmountable by us pathetic losers without the aid of a sir galahad in the form of some tit in a suit to rescue us.

Hehe. Thank you for venting on one of my personal pet hates. Sometimes the best 'solution' is technology, sold on a point for point comparison proving the best-of-breed nature of a given component.

I'm sick of hearing MBA marketing grads raving about solutions in a marketplace reliant on differentiation, and intelligent informed customers.

e.g.
All cars are solutions to a problem: 'I wish to drive from A to B'
So any car will do ? right ?
No. I want a car I can drive, not a car that drives me. Car manafacturers differentiate on features, speed, power, reliability, even colour choice.

Quite often customers know what they want as their 'solution' and want to find out if a given product delivers on a set of requirements, and make an informed choice, as in buying a car.

Solutions mostly suffocate the simple picture. Oh, and I don't buy solutions either.

Ben.

brown monk · Nov 12, 2001, 10:27 PM

Originally posted by jdbon:
No commercials for software? What about all those iTunes commercials, the iDVD commercial over the summer? And the iMovie commercial for the original iMac DV?

Umm, I've only seen the iMovie one with the dood in the plane. And that was actually for the new iBook. Maybe I'm not watching the shows where Apple ads come on...

moreno · Nov 12, 2001, 10:52 PM

after the manager of TV comercials of Apple being fired
apple should make a series of tv ads, with a lot of persons smilling LOL without voices with a good music, with gray lines, pulsating aqua buttons, aqua elements, etc... the end " Welcome all to Mac OS X".

i think that the apple last tv ads focus the misery of imagination @ apple now... (for example, RIP, BURN, MIX - the concert - what a waste of money!)

BTP · Nov 12, 2001, 11:40 PM

Regardless of if I like Apple selling 'solutions', I merely agreed that is what they appear to be focusing on. (Rip.Mix.Burn. and the beach wedding commercials)

When I have visited an Apple store, I have really liked how the salespeople have been showing Macs off as a way to do some specific tasks (another way to say solution, sorry) like digital video. DV seemed to be very big in the Peabody Apple store, when I have been there and it looks to be successful for Apple, but then again, nothing fails like success...

Meaning, if something works, but the reason it is thought to work differs from why it really does, it is hard to convince someone otherwise.

Selling solutions and positioning themselves seems to be the road Apple is travelling. While we have never been happy with the advertising Apple has done, I also believe that we have agreed on the messaging. I liked that commercial "Supercomputer" that was done when the G4 came out. ( I thought it was an Apple commercial).

When I am less restrained and more frustrated, I wish that Apple could do a better job at conveying the experience of using a Mac, and espcecially OS X.

ColonelSawtooth · Nov 13, 2001, 10:22 AM

Alright, here's a mock Apple commercial that I put together after discussion from a few posts up. It's not all that polished, but it communicates the point at hand rather nicely. If anyone has a high quality outline of the Apple logo and wouldn't mind sending it my way, I could really clean up the last frame. ([email protected])
http://homepage.mac.com/jessethomas/

Spheric Harlot · Nov 13, 2001, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by BTP:
When I am less restrained and more frustrated, I wish that Apple could do a better job at conveying the experience of using a Mac, and espcecially OS X.

Unfortunately, it is very very difficult to convey the "experience" in thirty seconds to somebody who has no concept of what "user experience" is supposed to mean because they've only ever used one system without being able to compare.

Apple actually did this very well with their "Dinosaurs" commercial ("Hey Timmy - wanna see some dinosaurs?" - inserts CD-ROM - "ok...now...type blablabla...find driver d

blablabla" - fifteen minutes later: "I'm going over to the Johnsons'." - "What's at the Johnsons'?" - "They have a Mac." Fade to logo and text "Multimedia that works.").

But today, where XP and OS X look similar and perform similar tasks, the only way to introduce people to the actual "experience" is to have them actually USE the machine. This is not something that can easily be done through commercials.

As for "solutions": It is really, as somebody pointed out, another way of saying, "We've got the equipment that will let you do it, easiest and/or cheapest."

A lot of Mac sales here in Germany right now are high-end G4's, with bundled G-Pard graphics cards and Final Cut Pro, as complete video editing systems. People are buying them to replace their aging AVID systems.
This is similar to those package deals for music production.

"Solution" implies that you pay for something that meets all your needs, just *works* the way it's delivered, and you have no more problems.

-chris.

macosxgeek · Nov 13, 2001, 02:01 PM

Think SuperBowl.

They invented the super bowl commercial revolution with the original, why not reinvent it with OS X.

JLFanboy · Nov 13, 2001, 02:44 PM

Hey Colonel Sawtooth, nice ad.

My only suggestion is to change the wording around a little bit, incorporate from all of the suggestions here.

For instance:

Shot 1) Some companies use flashy commercials to speak for their computers.

Shot 2) Unfortunately, we spent our advertising budget making computer that speak for themselves.

Shot 3) (Compostie shot of each Apple product. If we had a real budget, they could be rotating like in the iBook commercial with the floating peripherals around it. But at least quick shots of each product)

Shot 4) (Rest on one product, probably iMac or iPod (something iconic) and faid out of product while fading in "Think Different")

Granted the second part might undermine the idea of NOT making a flashy commercial, but I definitely like the wording better of the first two shots. Maybe Apple could release a different version of this ad for each of their products, one for iMac, one for G4, etc...

ColonelSawtooth · Nov 13, 2001, 03:04 PM

Thanks JLFanboy, I like your suggested phrasing. I'll see if I can dig up any usable QT clips and throw together another ad.

Any ideas where I can grab a 200 pixel-width (or bigger) still of the Apple logo outline? Seems they are rather hard to find.

JLFanboy · Nov 13, 2001, 03:53 PM

Try Macdesktops.com. They've usually got a lot of good desktops with an Apple logo you can cut out (with Photoshop, at least).

I've still been thinking about the commercial and I had a way of really making the commercial I suggested before work better.

Shot 1) Blank table, blank background (either all white, or all black). No music.

Shot 2) Have a technician, someone young, not looking like they should be in a commercial, come out carrying an iMac (or whatever computer you'd want to use). Have them put it on the table and spend a second or two centering it in front of the camera. When he's done, have him walk out of the shot.

Shot 3) A few seconds of the product.

Shots 4 & 5) The same wording that I used before ("computers speaking for themselves, etc..."), fade out to:

Shot 6) Think different.

This stuff is pretty fun.

[ 11-13-2001: Message edited by: JLFanboy ]

Tomahawk · Nov 13, 2001, 04:28 PM

What about using the setup time comparison too. For a new iMac ad anyway. Have a kid come out and set up a mac on one table and an adult on the other.

Kid pulls it out of the box, plugs it in, pops in a CD & plays tunes, all before the other person has the monitor attached and working.