[yvawoo]

A Frustrated Customer

This is my experience at the apple store today.

I am a medical resident being trained in a hospital in NY. I bought 12’’ Powerbook 2 months ago, which is absolutely a huge investment considering my small salary. Since then, I became a complete apple fanatic, just enjoying being an owner of this beautiful laptop.

Just 2 days ago - that was my frustration day one - while I was working at the hospital, I accidentally dropped my Powerbook on the floor. I was devastated to find out that the right bottom corner of it had an ugly dent with the plastic frame also being slightly damaged. I could not even cover the top completely without a gap, maybe because the hinge was also slight damaged. However, fortunately enough there seemed to be no functional damage. I ran many applications, checked firewire, screen, etc. Everything worked fine. After having a moment of helpless desperation, I called Applecare to discuss how I can have my computer fixed. After about 20 minutes of long wait, I finally could talk to one of the representatives, who kindly told me that I had to pay at most around 600 dollars to have the case replaced. I was surprised initially with the colossal price of replacing mere of the aluminum case. I enquired any other alternate way of fixing it. I also asked him if I could open the case, and just push that dent out, but he discouraged that mentioning I would loose my warranty completely if I opened it by myself. Later, the representative told me to visit Apple retail store to show my damaged computer and get estimation for the repair. He also told me that the estimation might be less than $600, because the price was set for the maximum damage, and it covers top, bottom and hinge… virtually all outside parts of the laptop. He also gave me two different phone numbers I could contact.

On day two, Sunday afternoon, I visited Apple retail store in the W where I bought my laptop before. I luckily met the sales person who helped me before. But, he told me that the tech guys could not help me because I did not make an appointment. I was very frustrated, because nobody told me to do so, also it was not written anywhere. I drove more than 30 minutes to get there, paying unnecessary parking fee, and wasting my time. But at least, he was kind. He told me with nice smile. And I came home with just a little frustration.

On day three, I called the store to make an appointment just to learn that
I could not do so with telephone. Later in the afternoon, I had a chance to use Internet, and I made an appointment finally at 6:20 pm. Again, after thirty minutes of driving in the rain, and paying three dollars of parking fee, I went to the Apple store at the Westchester WP. I confirmed my appointment time and waited until one of the Geniuses was available for me. After a while, I could see a Genius. He was already aware of my problem, because I listed that in my problem list when I made the appointment.

Initially one of the Geniuses, Mr.R and the manager of the Genius bar, Mr. D attended me together. Before they saw my computer yet, they told me that it was going to be expensive to fix a dropped computer. I was already aware of that since I talked to the apple care rep the day before. So, that was no problem. But I was hoping that the cost would go down, once they see my computer, since it was just mere a cosmetic problem involving only the case of the laptop. So, anyway, I opened my bag and showed my computer to them. Both of them told me that this kind of damage would cost me $800 to $900. I immediately wore a perplexed look, because I could not understand how the cost even increased, against my expectation and the explanation of the representative from Apple care. Anyway, the manager soon left, and Mr. R(Genius) started discussing the case with me by multiple questions includint “Do you have a digital camera? If you drop it, do they fix it for free? Do you have a Honda, If you hit a tree, do they fix it for free?” ... and maybe several more similar questions. I did not want to hear any one of the questions, because I was willing to pay for the repair, if it was reasonably priced. And who don’t know that they have to pay for such damages? He did not deliver any logical explanations regarding, why the cost is so high, and why this was not covered by the regular or extended Apple warrenty, which I paid more than $200. Or any reasonable explanations why they just could not open and push the small dent out.

If he had tried any one of these explanations voluntarily, instead of giving me a third-grade-grammar-school-level of very unpleasant and unprofessional silly questions, just reminding me of my fault of dropping the computer, which is a huge stress, or even a mental trauma for me, I would have never had to be upset at the customer service reps there.

After a while, Mr.R checked their price list and told me that the total cost would be around $650, without any apology or explanations of misinforming me initially by telling me that the price would be around $900. I told him that I could not afford it, because I thought it was extremely overpriced for such a small dent and over all damage, and also because he still did not give me any explanations about the details of the cost and why they just could not fix the dent, seemingly simple procedure even for me, a doctor without any tech training.

Still not convinced and satisfied enough, I had to question about those issues I mentioned before. I asked how much is the labor fee, and he said it’s about $150. Then automatically the price of case is about $500, a simple math. I could not believe my ear. I had to ask him again, how the $1500 computer had $500 case, I did not have any logical answer what so ever. He finally explained to me that the price of repair followed tier system. So, regardless of the degree of damage, any non-functional, cosmetic damage repair would be $650. Now, after spending ample amount of time listening unnecessary tape-recorded type of answers, I had some explanations regarding the repair cost policy of the Apple Computer, which is perfectly not customer oriented, also seemingly giving an impression that they don’t care about customers after they sell the products. I saw some ads in the web, which sells the same aluminum case about 250 dollars, which is still unbelievably overpriced to me even at the half of the price from Apple computer.

I by myself had to ask Mr. R more questions until I was at least explained at a more reasonable level. I believe it is my right as a customer to get enough explanations to a reasonable degree of my understanding, especially with this kind of high-end product. But unfortunately it was extremely difficult because of his unwillingness to answer and partially because of already created distrust between him and me by his untrustworthy answers.

For my question regarding fixing the aluminum case, he kept telling me the same answers over and over, that Apple simply could not do that. He also told me if I wanted to hammer the dent out I could go ahead and do it by myself. But, that answer was very irrelevant and also at certain level, insulting to me, because to my understanding I could not open the case, because in that case I would loose the warranty permanently. After I questioned him regarding loosing warranty, then he told me the truth, which was really inappropriate and illegitimate for a person who is supposed to help a customer. How dare he said that to me. His intention was sorely to ridicule me, or to finish my case quickly, without properly guiding me. He later told me to bring the computer to “Texor… or Taxor…” one of the third party mac repair companies. He told me they might help me. He was unsure if they can open the computer and push the dent out. I was very unsatisfied with his referring me to a place he was even unsure if my problem could be solved. I cannot even spell the place correctly because I don’t know who they are.

While Mr.R and me were discussing the case, the Genius bar manager, Mr. D came to us. He told me in an angry voice “I told you that we cannot fix your computer. You dropped it and it is out of warranty, so you take it back with you and use it as it is. You are holding this Genius too long, that he cannot help other customers.” I was so surprised to hear that from a customer service manager.

Obviously Mr.R was trying to explain things at least, even though he was very unwilling to do that. I had a broken laptop, and needed help. That was why I visited the retail store. Is there anything wrong with me? I didn’t go there to be ridiculed and judged and reprimanded for my dropping this precious laptop, which is actually a very traumatic experience to me. Why the manager had to treat me as if I was wasting the precious time of the Genius. Is it waste of time, if they spend time explaining to a customer, who are not willing to pay $600 to them for repair, who seeks alternative way of repairing, who ALREADY PAID $2700 for the whole package of computer, printer, ipod and extended warrenty? I DO NOT THINK SO!!

More embarrassingly, the manager, Mr. D, came later and started talking to me angrily the same things again. While he was telling so, he mentioned that I needed to speak like an adult. OK… that’s fine. English is my second language, so I might not have good pronunciation or phrase to sound like well-educated adult, but he still cannot say that to a customer, who wants their help, who needs them. And I am an ADULT, and he knows that. That is a serious insult. That moment I pointed him that he was being rude. And I also pointed that he interrupted Mr. R and my conversation rudely once already before, while Mr. R was answering my questions regarding the details of repair cost. I told him that I was discussing the case with Mr. R. Also, Mr. R told him that he was giving me answers for my questions, not just saying same things again. I clearly mentioned him that Mr. R was helping me, and my case with him was’t over when we were interrupted previously. Mr. D answered me “I told you enough, you will have to leave here, If you don’t I will ask you to leave, I can do that”. Again, I felt very insulted and offended. I warned him for his being rude to a customer, and told him that I would report this case. He said, “I hope you spell my name correctly”. I left the store with anger and enrage, and with both sadness of keeping that ugly dent in my powerbook and frustration of being mistreated by a help desk manager, who obviously misunderstood that he is a manager of even customers.

When people buy BMW or Porche, they expect more than Honda or Toyota, and I think it is legitimate. Did I buy a $600 Dell? Did I buy a $1000 Toshiba? I paid around $2700, when I bought 12’’ Powerbook, including a printer, an ipod and extended warranty. Why did I buy apple? I simply expected that by paying about a thousand dollar more I would be free of hassles I had with Windows machines. I doubt after all this waiting, wasting of time, and being offended and mistreated by customer service reps. I still like apple better than windows, but I think, there’s a serious flaw in customer service, which has to be taken care of. I was seriously offended, insulted, and removed from the store with threats and humiliations.

HOW DARE YOU DO THAT!!!

Today I learned that I have to buy the “Procard” at $100, just to have a right to have an appointment at the Genius bar in advance. What is that!! I have regular warranty, extended warranty, but still I cannot see the tech guys!! Why I have to pay extra to have the right to see the technical support at the store!! What nonsense!! The tech support people even cannot give me any helpful solutions. Did I pay the huge amount of money just for this frustrations?

I think Mr.D at the W should be removed from his position immediately. He insults and offends customers without having any compassion or actual help. He had angry face and vocal tone to me throughout my presence there, made me feel insulted. He also ridiculed me saying, “I hope you spell my name correctly”. Considering I am a foreigner, and he knows that I cannot fully address my issues in an embellished English, that is an absolutely serious, race involved insult. At least I felt that way. He simply does not qualify for that job.

As a doctor I try very hard to find the best solution for my patients. I don’t just send my patients home, simply because they don’t have an insurance. I fill out the form for medicaid and medicare, or hospital temporary insurance… if nothing works, I contact social workers to find an appropriate charity program for them. Ridiculing and yelling at the patients? I even cannot think of. Aren’t the Geniuses at the store doctors for computers?

[ericssonboi]

I think you should be filing a complaint to apple regardng this matter.
If you speak to someone higher up in Customer Relations..
I'm sure they'll treat you better or at least give you somewhat of a better break.

If your looking to take it apart yourself.. try
www.pbfixit.com
and how that this fits..
http://www.pbfixit.com/cart/catalog/...ower_Case.html

Regarding the dent.. In no means should Apple pay for your mistake.
Like they said.. in a similar situation... If you were driving your car..
You are in a parking lot and hit a pole and dent your bumper..
Would you go running back to Honda, BMW, Chevrolet, Ford to tell them to fix your dnet. The answer is .. they'll send you to go to their body shop and you either take it out of your pocket or go through insurance.

Your option could be homeowners insurance... but it might hurt you down the road..

My words of advice to all would be to handle your Powerbook with care... it is made of Aluminum after all... it is dentable..
And if you want to compare with normal PC laptops that go through the same damage.. i'm sure they'll either crack or get scratched up.

[Macpilot]

I dropped a Powerbook and it only looked like a dent, only to find out that the entire logic board had cracked.

I had Safeware ($200 per year) and they repaired it, because that was the terms of the coverage. They cover drops and spills. Apple does not. AppleCare covers everything but accidental damage. The terms are clearly stated in the AppleCare documentation you received.

Although I sympathize with your situation, you dropped the laptop, a very expensive laptop, and therefore should assume that repairs will be costly.

What did you really expect the costs to be? How do you know what the parts cost? Go to www.pbparts.com and part this stuff out, and THEN ADD IN labor! The Apple techs don't make much money as it is, but they certainly don't work for free.

www.pbparts.com quotes the Top Case and Bottom Case for a 12" Powerbook as $149 and $229 respectively. That is a total of $378 just of the case parts. That DOES NOT include labor. Factor in, conservatively, 3 hours of labor. Let's say labor is $50/hour, which I am totally guessing. Another $150. So, about $528. Or you could order the parts and do it yourself and possible damage the Powerbook even more.

You also seem to think that because you dropped your Powerbook that you should be able to jump in line in front of every other person at the Genius Bar? Why? Perhaps this is something you should have cleared up on the phone with AppleCare.

As far as the Apple folks at the Store being "rude" to you. There are always two sides to every story. Have you ever been frustrated trying to explain the same thing over and over again to someone?

You say the Powerbook it totally functional? Have you considered NOT repairing it? You could probably think of better things to do with your money.

Of course, since the warranty is void now because of the damage to the Powerbook, you don't have to/need to get it repaired by Apple! In fact, I would not take it to Apple. You probably will pay less somewhere else. Somewhere that does NOT give free tech support and does NOT have certified repair techs.

There are plenty of services on the internet you can pay to do it, for probably less than Apple. Powerbook Medic is one off the top of my head. Give them a call.

Good luck.

[vinster]

I definitely suggest you write a letter to Apple Customer Relations about the treatment you received at the Apple Store, but be concise. The letter you wrote above is way to long for someone to want to read all the way through.

The Apple Genius thing isn't a very good set up in my opinion. Apple's making it worse, too, by selling pro-care and thus instituting a first-class, second-class system, but that's another issue.

Barring your complaint with the Apple Store, you need to face up to the fact that you're looking at a repair cost of what was quoted to you. Apple has to repair things a specific way, and for dents it involves a case replacement. Apple can't make exceptions because you believe the dent's only cosmetic. You should be aware of such procedures being a doctor. You can't take shortcuts to a patient's treatment. It's the same way with auto body. A damaged fender or bumper's usually replaced outright rather than bent back into its original shape.

I suggest you have the repairs done by Apple because hopefully it will ensure your computer's under warranty again, but double check with them before agreeing to any work just to make sure that it will put you back on to your Applecare extended warranty and not just the warranty covering repairs.

Hope this helps.

[moonmonkey]

I would love to their version of what happened, I'm sure it would be a bit different to yours.

Your final point is to call for someone to be fired, not for a policy change at Apple which is the real problem. I have read many complaint letters from angry customers who recount stories of encounters that I witnessed, and 90% of them are totally exaggerated, im sorry to say your story seems a lot like one of these.

[Artful Dodger]

Sorry to hear about your unfortunate experience. I give you props for not knocking the Joe diGiovanni. What a tool. I, too, have encountered similar attitudes and I laughed at the apple employee when he tried to sell me .mac and procare. I don't know how employees keep a staight face when they try to tack on all these misc. services to an already hefty purchase. I do like apple care, though. If you have it you get just a tad more respect.

Hopefully digiovanni and company get fired.

[Artful Dodger]

Originally Posted by moonmonkey

I would love to their version of what happened, I'm sure it would be a bit different to yours.

Your final point is to call for someone to be fired, not for a policy change at Apple which is the real problem. I have read many complaint letters from angry customers who recount stories of encounters that I witnessed, and 90% of them are totally exaggerated, im sorry to say your story seems a lot like one of these.

agreed...i'd like to hear the other side.
Paging Joe DiGiovanni to the MacNN......
But, new policy? The don't be a f-ing a-hole to customers policy?

[mad cow disease]

You dropped your laptop, you took it to Apple, and they quoted you a repair price. You then stood there for a long time and had them dissect the various parts of this repair price, which they even told you was based on a tiered system!

If you didn't want to spend $600 on the repair, fine. If you think that Apple's price is outrageous, fine. But there are certainly better ways to go about spending your time than quibbling with two store employees over a price which is a.) set by corporate and b.) which they have absolutely no power to change. If you think Apple's price is outrageous, guess what? There are plenty of other places out there for you to go to. This is like going to the Dealer for a car repair. It's going to be expensive - we ALL know that. That is why we have mechanics everywhere who can repair the same thing - you can call around and ask! Apple can charge $2000 for the repair if they want, that is their right and although nobody's going to go to them for a repair, they can still charge that amount - it's how a free market system works.

Finally...what seems to you to be a cosmetic issue may in fact be more complicated than you think. As you said, you're NOT a tech. You are a doctor - so far be it from your place to say what is a "simple cosmetic repair" and what is not.

I've worked retail in a number of establishments and the worst customers I've ever had are the ones who insist that they are entitled to something because they spend a lot of money in a place or are regulars. The best customers are the ones who keep on coming back, and if you run into a snag or a problem they're understanding, they take it in stride, and never, ever, ever, claim to be entitled to something. Retail employees are human beings, too. Treat them badly and expect to be badly treated in turn. They usually aren't getting paid enough to put up with much BS.

[ericssonboi]

Originally Posted by mad cow disease

I've worked retail in a number of establishments and the worst customers I've ever had are the ones who insist that they are entitled to something because they spend a lot of money in a place or are regulars. The best customers are the ones who keep on coming back, and if you run into a snag or a problem they're understanding, they take it in stride, and never, ever, ever, claim to be entitled to something. Retail employees are human beings, too. Treat them badly and expect to be badly treated in turn. They usually aren't getting paid enough to put up with much BS.

This is very true.

Also... i'd like to point out.. no offence or anything..
But I noticed that you mentioned your a doctor.
I hope you know, a lot of people in bigger corporations could care less If your a Medical Doctor doing Heart Surgery for the last President or if your a person who does cashier at Wal-Mart. Just because your a Doctor, you don't get a special treatment, and definitely not a special pricing.


Also, being a doctor... I would have thought you would understand there are procedures and a system of policies companies follow just like a doctor would follow in procedure for stitching up a cut or heart surgery.

The person on the phone quoted you for an estimate of how much it was going to cost without even seeing the system. You obviously expected that was already too much and was going into the apple store determined to get it at a lower price or free.

Nothing is free in this world... and definitely not Apple products... or else.. everyone would have them. Your a doctor. I'm sure you make lots of money or else why would you mention it so much. I would have thought 600 bucks would be pocket change for you... but i guess not. Just pay it or live with it.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by mad cow disease

I've worked retail in a number of establishments and the worst customers I've ever had are the ones who insist that they are entitled to something because they spend a lot of money in a place or are regulars. The best customers are the ones who keep on coming back, and if you run into a snag or a problem they're understanding, they take it in stride, and never, ever, ever, claim to be entitled to something. Retail employees are human beings, too. Treat them badly and expect to be badly treated in turn. They usually aren't getting paid enough to put up with much BS.

Thank you for that perspective.

I really hate it when customers walk in and think they own you because they spent a lot of money on a product, and, even worse, because they are Important To Society™.

These are typically the assholes who write huge letters of complaint to central offices, try to get someone fired for doing their job (or having had a stomach ache, perhaps), and occasionally actually get through with getting new hardware or a price reduction or whatever for something that they ****ed up themselves.

This ALWAYS runs at the expense of other customers, who accept that retail employees are humans, as are technicians, and that sometimes things simply go wrong. These pay the higher prices we have to set to accomodate these Precious People™, to pay additional lawyers to deal with when they threaten to go to the paper or whatever, and most of all, they have to stand there and WAIT PATIENTLY FOR THE HALF-HOUR THE STORE EMPLOYEE HAS TO DEAL WITH THE STUBBORN ****WIT WHO REFUSES TO PAY THE BILL FOR HIS OWN STUPIDITY.

Sorry - no offense to the original poster, since I can't really judge how you came across at the store, but I had to get that off my chest.

[capuchin]

Oh, suck it up. You dropped your powerbook. You're an idiot. Have the good grace to accept you screwed up, don't whine about the price of the parts, and either fix it or don't.

Just reading your sanctimonious, self-pitying tripe is making my fists twitch. Reading between the lines, you were being a big pain in the ass, and the folks at the genius bar were probably exercising enormous self-control not to beat you silly on the damn spot.

I was seriously offended, insulted, and removed from the store with threats and humiliations.

Shut up. Shut up shut up shut up shut up. Shut up. Stop thinking the world owes you a damn thing. Then shut up again.

Oh, and it's "Tekserve". They're on 23rd. And they'll probably hate your guts as well.

[toneloco28]

Originally Posted by capuchin

Oh, suck it up. You dropped your powerbook. You're an idiot. Have the good grace to accept you screwed up, don't whine about the price of the parts, and either fix it or don't.

Just reading your sanctimonious, self-pitying tripe is making my fists twitch. Reading between the lines, you were being a big pain in the ass, and the folks at the genius bar were probably exercising enormous self-control not to beat you silly on the damn spot.



Shut up. Shut up shut up shut up shut up. Shut up. Stop thinking the world owes you a damn thing. Then shut up again.

Oh, and it's "Tekserve". They're on 23rd. And they'll probably hate your guts as well.

LMAO....I usually don't get involved into these type's of posts (discussions), but I must absoulutely agree here. The OP strikes me as a bit neurotic, saying this "cosmetic" dent has caused him great trauma, and stress... To give you the benifit of the doubt, you say you are currently in residency. I know through my immediate family, that this can be a time period of great stress, as sometimes you don't sleep for 2-3 days. What you are providing is an invaluable service, and I would suggest you step back and gain some perspective.

From the sound of your post it sounds as if you went into the Apple store, being quite obnoxious, even after the Apple genius told you all he could do for you. His telling you to "hammer" it out was probaly a means to get you the hell out of there infused with a bit of sarcasm. He has other customer's and you we're expecting the royal treatment. Either pay the $600 to get it fixed and keep the warranty intact, or try and save a few bucks in doing it yourself. Of course the price of the case is disproportionate to the total cost of the laptop. Ever got in a car accident...hehe? A dent in the bumper will set you back a couple grand...

[Randman]

I hope he's more careful with medical equipment than his PowerBook.

[ericssonboi]

Originally Posted by capuchin

Oh, suck it up. You dropped your powerbook. You're an idiot. Have the good grace to accept you screwed up, don't whine about the price of the parts, and either fix it or don't.

Just reading your sanctimonious, self-pitying tripe is making my fists twitch. Reading between the lines, you were being a big pain in the ass, and the folks at the genius bar were probably exercising enormous self-control not to beat you silly on the damn spot.



Shut up. Shut up shut up shut up shut up. Shut up. Stop thinking the world owes you a damn thing. Then shut up again.

Oh, and it's "Tekserve". They're on 23rd. And they'll probably hate your guts as well.

LMAO!!! Well said

[moonmonkey]

My bets are he is either French or Singaporean, very possibly Hong Kong Chinese.

[Randman]

Does not read Singaporean at all.

[mrmister]

And the board shows its true colors once again: quick to judge, often fanatical, and generally poor in spirit.

This guy's post isn't written to please the MacNN crowd, but it isn't crazy--he wants to pay to have his laptop repaired. When he calls Apple, they give him one number, and they say that's the highest it could be. When he goes to an Apple Store, he gets an entirely different number, and then that number changes. He would like to know why.

That is ENTIRELY REASONABLE. People here lambasting this guy for wasting the tech person's time are the ones being unreasonable--only a FOOL would meekly acquiesce when the numbers keep shifting. You'd ask questions--and, both on the boards and at the Apple Store, that simply isn't acceptable.

I won't even start with the bizarre class anger over him being a "doctor" (he's a resident--learn to read) and the fact that he makes people so angry that they can barely restrain themselves. Reading responses like that only *confirms* the very worst elements of this board--rude, dogmatic, narrow-minded and pig-headed.

The fact is, AppleCare and the Apple Stores don't speak from the same page all the time, and they should--it's the same damn company. Efforts could and should be made to bridge that gap.

Fact is, the Pro Card is ridiculous. Wait times at Apple Stores for the "Genius" Bar are ridiculous. Apple needs to straighten up on this, and actually SPEND MONEY training more geniuses so they can deliver the kind of in-store experience they present to the public.

Reread his post again. Look at the responses up to this point and ask yourself: what does this look like to you?

To me, it's an embarassment.

[Randman]

It looks like someone expecting something that just isn't there. I call a shop, I get a round figure. If I take it in, I'll get a specific quote.

You should read it again.

[Javizun]

sounds to me like you expected a free fix, and when they explained to you the cost you become like this obnoxious little kid crying and kicking for a toy he wants to buy but his parents are tlling him no.
if they would have broken down every part and price then you would have counter attacked with why the price is so much for a small dent blah blah....

point blank is an apple employee did not push your laptop down to the floor YOU DROPPED IT
and since the fault is on you, why do you feel like apple should be held aco****able for your mistake?
if you ask me they provided information you asked, you where just trying to see how far you can take it.

[ericssonboi]

Originally Posted by Randman

It looks like someone expecting something that just isn't there. I call a shop, I get a round figure. If I take it in, I'll get a specific quote.

You should read it again.

Same goes here...
I'll call in for a quote.. I don't expect it to be exact...
If you call in to a body shop and ask how much it would cost for a brand new paint job. Someone will quote you say $2000.
When you get there... because your car has scratches, dents, or some rust somewhere... It'll run you more than you expected.

Pretty logical to me..

[brokenjago]

Originally Posted by mrmister

And the board shows its true colors once again: quick to judge, often fanatical, and generally poor in spirit.

This guy's post isn't written to please the MacNN crowd, but it isn't crazy--he wants to pay to have his laptop repaired. When he calls Apple, they give him one number, and they say that's the highest it could be. When he goes to an Apple Store, he gets an entirely different number, and then that number changes. He would like to know why.

That is ENTIRELY REASONABLE. People here lambasting this guy for wasting the tech person's time are the ones being unreasonable--only a FOOL would meekly acquiesce when the numbers keep shifting. You'd ask questions--and, both on the boards and at the Apple Store, that simply isn't acceptable.

I won't even start with the bizarre class anger over him being a "doctor" (he's a resident--learn to read) and the fact that he makes people so angry that they can barely restrain themselves. Reading responses like that only *confirms* the very worst elements of this board--rude, dogmatic, narrow-minded and pig-headed.

The fact is, AppleCare and the Apple Stores don't speak from the same page all the time, and they should--it's the same damn company. Efforts could and should be made to bridge that gap.

Fact is, the Pro Card is ridiculous. Wait times at Apple Stores for the "Genius" Bar are ridiculous. Apple needs to straighten up on this, and actually SPEND MONEY training more geniuses so they can deliver the kind of in-store experience they present to the public.

Reread his post again. Look at the responses up to this point and ask yourself: what does this look like to you?

To me, it's an embarassment.

I really couldn't have said it better myself.

Honestly people, have some sense of... dignity. Stop making yourselves look like fools by showing how badly you fail to comprehend the English language.

PLEASE. Before you post: take the time to read and comprehend what someone says. It'll save everyone a lot of time, and it won't make you look foolish.

[Randman]

Fact: Applecare nor the Apple warranty covers accidents such as dropping your PowerBook on the floor. It would be great if it did, but it doesn't.

[/end subject]

[brokenjago]

My god. I'm losing faith in the people on this forum. Seriously. Read his post. Stop being retarded. He never asked that Applecare cover his accidental damage for free. He was willing to pay for it.

[I was David B.]

If you payed the powerbook with a credit card, check if it is under warranty by the card company. Amex for example insures everything you bought.

[Randman]

Originally Posted by brokenjago

My god. I'm losing faith in the people on this forum. Seriously. Read his piost. Stop being retarded. He never asked that Applecare cover his accidental damage for free. He was willing to pay for it.

1 month and you lost faith?

Also, you shouldn't call others retarded when you misspell words in the same paragraph.

Anyway...

Originally Posted by yvawoo

I was willing to pay for the repair, if it was reasonably priced.

Although there's little explanation of what he considers "reasonable", especially after later comments.

Originally Posted by yvawoo

And who don’t know that they have to pay for such damages? He did not deliver any logical explanations regarding, why the cost is so high, and why this was not covered by the regular or extended Apple warrenty, which I paid more than $200.

Apple warranty doesn't cover this type of stuff.

Originally Posted by yvawoo

Now, after spending ample amount of time listening unnecessary tape-recorded type of answers, I had some explanations regarding the repair cost policy of the Apple Computer, which is perfectly not customer oriented, also seemingly giving an impression that they don’t care about customers after they sell the products. I saw some ads in the web, which sells the same aluminum case about 250 dollars, which is still unbelievably overpriced to me even at the half of the price from Apple computer.

Again, more comments on the price.

Originally Posted by yvawoo

While Mr.Rivman and me were discussing the case, the Genius bar manager, Mr. DiGiovanni came to us. He told me in an angry voice “I told you that we cannot fix your computer. You dropped it and it is out of warranty, so you take it back with you and use it as it is. You are holding this Genius too long, that he cannot help other customers.” I was so surprised to hear that from a customer service manager.

If this is indeed the case, the manager should be reported, in writing to Apple. But one has to make sure that the OP wasn't being a little recalcitrant.

Originally Posted by yvawoo

When people buy BMW or Porche, they expect more than Honda or Toyota, and I think it is legitimate. Did I buy a $600 Dell? Did I buy a $1000 Toshiba? I paid around $2700, when I bought 12’’ Powerbook, including a printer, an ipod and extended warranty.

Again, none of this matters because it does say that a warranty does not cover this type of damage.

Originally Posted by yvawoo

Why did I buy apple? I simply expected that by paying about a thousand dollar more I would be free of hassles I had with Windows machines.

Again, the dropping of the laptop is not Apple's fault

Originally Posted by yvawoo

Today I learned that I have to buy the “Procard” at $100, just to have a right to have an appointment at the Genius bar in advance. What is that!! I have regular warranty, extended warranty, but still I cannot see the tech guys!! Why I have to pay extra to have the right to see the technical support at the store!! What nonsense!! The tech support people even cannot give me any helpful solutions. Did I pay the huge amount of money just for this frustrations?

That doesn't sound right. With Applecare, you can take the machine in for a repair estimate then elect to have it done or not.

I empathize with the OP about the agony of dropping a new PB. But the damage could be more than just cosmetic.

Also, I get the strong inclination that the OP is used to a different type of system from his homeland and became a bit argumentative. The part where he complains about paying $3 for parking did it for me.

Again, if you read his post clearly, there is some parts where he may have a valid argument but there's also quite a bit where he's 100% wrong.

[analogika]

Please look up the difference between "warranty" and "insurance".

[brokenjago]

Originally Posted by Randman

1 month and you lost faith?

Also, you shouldn't call others retarded when you misspell words in the same paragraph.

First of all, there's a difference between a typo and misspelling something. Second of all, two can play at that game: it should be "you've", not "you". Past tense. Not that I consider your argument valid anyway.

[Rob van dam]

Originally Posted by brokenjago

First of all, there's a difference between a typo and misspelling something. Second of all, two can play at that game: it should be "you've", not "you". Past tense. Not that I consider your argument valid anyway.

Ignore randman he started this nonsense with me earlier in the year and it went no were.

[Rob van dam]

Originally Posted by moonmonkey

I would love to their version of what happened, I'm sure it would be a bit different to yours.

Your final point is to call for someone to be fired, not for a policy change at Apple which is the real problem. I have read many complaint letters from angry customers who recount stories of encounters that I witnessed, and 90% of them are totally exaggerated, im sorry to say your story seems a lot like one of these.

I would not call 90% of stories exagerated.I have been treated like a complete moron by tech support and customer realtions on numerous occasions.While he is at fault for expecting A-grade service when he dropped his laptop it's naive of anyone to think that apple's service is perfect when that's far from the truth.Some people need a lot of training at apple.

[yvawoo]

Update to my original story...



Thank you for all your support and sincere discussion here.

The next day I posted the message, Mr. D, the help desk manager, emailed me asking my number, so I did.

He called me my home at 4:30 in the after noon, the time I gave him as a convenient time for me.

He sincerely aplogized for what had happened the day before. He told me that, after reading my report and learned how I felt at the store, he regretted for what he did. I accepted his apology.

I still like apple products, and thank him for his sincere and timely appology.

I wish apple continue to make better products and better services.

Thank you.

Sincerely yours,

Byoung.

P.S : I still think the service is way too much overpriced. Nobody can undo what has already happened, but I personally hope this posting would help him (the manager) from getting damage to his career.

[cdetdi]

Originally Posted by brokenjago

First of all, there's a difference between a typo and misspelling something. Second of all, two can play at that game: it should be "you've", not "you". Past tense. Not that I consider your argument valid anyway.

No, "you" works there...his statement was present. He says you mispell words in the same paragraph. Present...

ANYWAY

I'm doubting how many of the people on this forum have had experience with customer service, especially considering how quickly they "run to the defense" of cust. support. I am pretty much the lowest level of a Helpdesk organization and spent much time before this working as service personell at a automobile shop. You quickly learn how to treat people. Some people just don't get it, they respond to stress by being jerks. Others realize that being nice and answering all questions asked of you clearly, taking your time and not rushing a customer MOST often solves the problem quicker, makes your customer happy, and he/she is less likely to come back because you did your job educating them on whatever problem they came to you for. If they do retrun, they understand what they need to bring to you so you can do their job the best. Lastly, it is COMPLETELY unprofessional and unacceptable to tell a customer to leave without giving him another option. You can say to him that there is nothing you can do, but tell him he could call here or there for more guidance. Don't ever tell someone to leave with no options for a solution.

If those at the genius bar had responded that the price was high because of the tier system to begin with, fine. Him spending 3 grand on a laptop doesn't entitle him to free repairs, but it does come with the resonable expectation that he can recieve real help if he gets in trouble. If they had been more receptive this man would be happier, and probably would either just pay and go through Apple care or just forget about it. Instead, he is writing essays on his experience and is potentially putting the Genius bar emplyees' jobs in danger (they should be in danger).

cdetdi

[Javizun]

people take this internet thing too seriously what you do on the internet dont apply to the real world.
I cant believe some people actually said they feel embarrased at some of the replys lol hahahaha
and one said some look foolish hahahahahahahahaha

[cdetdi]

Originally Posted by yvawoo

Update to my original story...



Thank you for all your support and sincere discussion here.

The next day I posted the message, Mr. DiGiovanni, the help desk manager, emailed me asking my number, so I did.

He called me my home at 4:30 in the after noon, the time I gave him as a convenient time for me.

He sincerely aplogized for what had happened the day before. He told me that, after reading my report and learned how I felt at the store, he regretted for what he did. I accepted his apology.

I still like apple products, and thank him for his sincere and timely appology.

I wish apple continue to make better products and better services.

Thank you.

Sincerely yours,

Byoung.

P.S : I still think the service is way too much overpriced. Nobody can undo what has already happened, but I personally hope this posting would help him (the manager) from getting damage to his career.

Glad to hear everything worked out. Giovanni showed at least some maturity responding to you, even if it was under the pressure from someone else.

High prices are nothing you can do about...

I suggest editing your oringinal post and descibe that the issue had been resolved vey acceptably. Remove your complaint and just replace it with a short paraphrase of the problem.

cdetdi

[fisherKing]

my 2 cents...
customer service is a tough job, i wouldn't wish it on anyone...
my story:

my (pismo) powerbook screen was not working right. i called apple, they suggested, from my details, that the cable to the screen might need replacing.

i took it to a major repair place for macs, got a price quote for the cable replacement, and also a quote in case the screen needed replacing.

when i came in to pick up my fixed pb...they had not done the work there, but sent it to apple, who replaced the cable.

but apple's price is a fixed one, so they were now charging me the cost of screen replacement (more than twice what i had been quoted for the cable).

i, er...made a bit of a fuss. left, leaving my pb to be picked up another day.

then,
calmed down.
emailed the head of tech at the store, explained the situation clearly.
he emailed back (from a vacation in florida!) and set things straight: they admitted the mistake (not looking at the unit there), and SPLIT the cost of repair with me.

my point: yelling at someone makes it hard for them to hear (the volume has more impact than the words).

and most things can be worked out, at least within a situation's limits (ie cost of a repair, etc).

[mrmister]

Daylight seems to have brought out a few more rational people, but the majority of people on this thread, especially the serious winners like Randman, are an embarassment. I'd urge the OP not to amend anything here--it should stand so we can link to it if I need to remember what this board can be like.

Oh, and this genius:

"people take this internet thing too seriously what you do on the internet dont apply to the real world."

The internet is "the real world", you putz--just because the communication medium changes doesn't absolve us all of any responsibility. I've belonged to these forums for a long time, and being embarassed at the apologism and rank bile to a fairly innocuous posting is a legitimate response.

[OogaBooga]

Originally Posted by mad cow disease

You dropped your laptop, you took it to Apple, and they quoted you a repair price. You then stood there for a long time and had them dissect the various parts of this repair price, which they even told you was based on a tiered system!

If you didn't want to spend $600 on the repair, fine. If you think that Apple's price is outrageous, fine. But there are certainly better ways to go about spending your time than quibbling with two store employees over a price which is a.) set by corporate and b.) which they have absolutely no power to change. If you think Apple's price is outrageous, guess what? There are plenty of other places out there for you to go to. This is like going to the Dealer for a car repair. It's going to be expensive - we ALL know that. That is why we have mechanics everywhere who can repair the same thing - you can call around and ask! Apple can charge $2000 for the repair if they want, that is their right and although nobody's going to go to them for a repair, they can still charge that amount - it's how a free market system works.

Finally...what seems to you to be a cosmetic issue may in fact be more complicated than you think. As you said, you're NOT a tech. You are a doctor - so far be it from your place to say what is a "simple cosmetic repair" and what is not.

I've worked retail in a number of establishments and the worst customers I've ever had are the ones who insist that they are entitled to something because they spend a lot of money in a place or are regulars. The best customers are the ones who keep on coming back, and if you run into a snag or a problem they're understanding, they take it in stride, and never, ever, ever, claim to be entitled to something. Retail employees are human beings, too. Treat them badly and expect to be badly treated in turn. They usually aren't getting paid enough to put up with much BS.

This couldn't be more correct.

I've got a few things to say to the original poster:

1. First of all, NEVER post someone's full name on the internet, especially when you also tell us where exactly they work.

2. The AppleCare people never repair computers. They usually don't have a clue what the cost of a repair would be. The Geniuses do - that's their job. So don't get all pissy when a Genius' estimate is more.

3. I don't know why some people have a hard time understanding this, but you HAVE to wait in line for the Genius Bar. It's only fair to everyone else. There are so few Geniuses and so many people. I like to relate it to going to get a haircut. Do you drive all the way up there, cut in front of the line, and say, "Alright, I need a haircut ASAP. I've only got about 10 minutes... WHAT? I have to wait in line?" When you get your haircut, you're prepared to wait 30 minutes to an hour before you're served. In a similar fashion, when you're planning on visiting the Genius Bar, plan to wait a little while. After all, each customer is only allocated 15 minutes of a Genius' time. So when a customer starts to go over that time, it is highly unfair to everyone else that are ready to pay for their repairs. You could even be pushing people down far enough to have to wait until after closing or even the next day to be seen. The Genius Bar is essentially a first-come, first-serve queue.

4. Part of the reason they don't break the cost of the repair down to you is because they don't know, and the other part is because of Apple's policy. PowerBooks are very complicated machines, and, once again, the Geniuses are busy workers. You either accept the price, or you leave... but for the sake of god don't stand there fighting a losing battle.

5. It's the manager's top priority to make a nice experience for all the customers in the store. If you're yelling or purposely holding up the line and not cooperating, or if you swear at all, the manager has to ask you to leave. The Apple Store employees are NOT your slaves. They don't HAVE to do anything for you. Remember, they want to help you, they really do. But not when you're being an asse. And besides, there are kids in the store.

6. ProCare is a yearly service that allows you a). 1 hour of a Genius' time (and you can even specify the Genius if you'd like) b). ability to schedule an appointment up to a week in advance, and down to 24 hours short notice, and c). Get a faster turn-around time on your repairs.

Sorry for the mini-rants, but mad cow disease is right when he says the polite, patient customers are the ones that get what they want. Apple Store employees are people too.

But... I'm glad you got it resolved. Just remember respect isn't a one-way street.

[mrmister]

Again--people are posting from some other, alternate dimension where the presumption of guilt and abuse falls on the consumer.

A few nits I'd like to pick:

"After all, each customer is only allocated 15 minutes of a Genius' time."

Is this actually true? If it actually is, it's even more disgraceful than the current state of affairs, which is pretty poor. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple encourages issue resolutions to take 15 minutes or less, but if that's actually a hard target...well, it's obscene, frankly. I'll withhold further judgement pending whether anyone knows if this is actually completely true...but if it is, I'd certainly never encourage anyone to go to an Apple Store for service of any kind, when there are independent dealers or calling Apple directly available as options.

"The AppleCare people never repair computers. They usually don't have a clue what the cost of a repair would be. The Geniuses do - that's their job. So don't get all pissy when a Genius' estimate is more."

The failure here is Apple's--if the AppleCare people don't actually have a clue, then they need to be retrained not to say that they do. I love that when the customer is getting conflicting information, it's the customer who is becoming "pissy". Sigh.

"The Apple Store employees are NOT your slaves. They don't HAVE to do anything for you. Remember, they want to help you, they really do. But not when you're being an asse. And besides, there are kids in the store."

Setting aside the fact that yes, we should all be civil in stores, and certainly give more people the benefit of the doubt than folks in this thread are giving people, the Apple Store employees *do* actually have to do things for you...it's called customer service.

Finally,

"But... I'm glad you got it resolved. Just remember respect isn't a one-way street."

Given your tone, I think that advice about respect is one that *you* should heed yourself. You've implied repeatedly and clearly that the customer is definitely at fault here, over and over, and from what I can see he's guilty of nothing more than asking questions and naivete. The manager in question has even apologized for his behavior--I think it's amazing that even after that, people are still convinced that somehow, someway the customer must be at fault.

[OogaBooga]

Look, I'm sorry if I came off a bit harsh, but I recently left a retail job. Apple employees are going to put their own values above their job requirements. Thus, if a customer is being rude to an employee, that employee may have a job obligation to remain polite to them, but as a person that employee can take it any way he/she wants. Many times customers come in already angry, and they take it out with personal attacks on the employees. Anyone who has worked retail should know this.

Like I said, the employees are people too - they're not super-human with unlimited patience. If you're rude to them, they'll be rude to you, regardless of what the company policy is.

[mrmister]

I've worked retail myself, and so I hear you. Thank you for posting again and clarifying your position; I wish more people around here would do that and pay attention to what they're saying. It's really good to see.

And yes--I have never seen being rude to a staff person of any store work out very well at all. It totally and absolutely sucks.

[jamil5454]

Now that that's taken care of, I'd like to mention that I'm no longer employed as an Apple Retail Store employee. And yes, the stores try to keep it to a 15 minute maximum for everyone at the Genius Bar. Any major problems should be handled with a manager on duty anyway.

[enomehjashik]

Originally Posted by OogaBooga

Look, I'm sorry if I came off a bit harsh, but I recently left a retail job. Apple employees are going to put their own values above their job requirements. Thus, if a customer is being rude to an employee, that employee may have a job obligation to remain polite to them, but as a person that employee can take it any way he/she wants. Many times customers come in already angry, and they take it out with personal attacks on the employees. Anyone who has worked retail should know this.

Like I said, the employees are people too - they're not super-human with unlimited patience. If you're rude to them, they'll be rude to you, regardless of what the company policy is.

WORD!!

i worked retail at circuit city and a chinese customer came in pist cus the camera on display was made in japan but the one they got was made in china, and they were yelling in broken english and chinese and being rude. so i told him youre made in china whats wrong with you! that shut his ass up. my manager got a laugh and told the guy if you keep yelling you will be asked to leave since you are bothering our customers. he got no refund of course and all the boxed cameras were made in china 1 month after the release of the model. that is sony for you

[jamil5454]

We had a guy come in at the Apple Store one time to buy two powerbooks. After a few minutes of fiddling around, he changed his mind to two Mac Minis.

This was right after the Mac Mini update to 512mb standard RAM, and the removal of the stock modem. So he comes to the counter to check out, starts complaining that he's hated Apple since OS X came out, and wants things to be like OS 9 again. I asked him why he didn't just stay with OS 9 and he said everything revolved around OS X and iPod now. He then asked if he could boot up into OS 9, which I replied with a definitive No, and he freaked out. He then calmed down when he learned Classic is the same thing, and actually runs a little bit faster.

So he buys the computers, open the box and discovers there's no modem in the minis. He didn't once tell anyone that he needed a modem on his computer. He freaks out again and says that Apple pulls this stuff all the time. Taking away features for no reason. I asked him if he actually needed the modem, and even though he has broadband, he asked if I was an idiot and then replied that he uses the computers for everything they can do. His anger kept escalating.

He then put his hands in the air and starting banging on the glass panes in the store.

I told him we can put a modem in for $29, and he agreed to that. So I go in the back to get a couple modems and after consulting with the manager find out we're out of them.

After explaining to the guy we're out of modems, he then 1. Turned around, 2. Walked to the software wall, and 3. Started banging his head against it.

I was fed up and just told him, "Sir, if you can't behave in the store I'm going to have to ask you to leave."

He asked for the manager.

The manager came out and all of a sudden the guy was polite. He admitted he didn't actually need the modems, although it would be nice to be able to fax things on occasion. He agreed to get them installed at a later date.

I exploded.

Anyway, the moral to the story is... sure it was my job to make sure he's happy, but when someone starts yelling or acts like that, you have to ask them to leave.




Good story.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by yvawoo

When people buy BMW or Porche, they expect more than Honda or Toyota, and I think it is legitimate. Did I buy a $600 Dell? Did I buy a $1000 Toshiba? I paid around $2700, when I bought 12’’ Powerbook, including a printer, an ipod and extended warranty. Why did I buy apple? I simply expected that by paying about a thousand dollar more I would be free of hassles I had with Windows machines.

Not quite $600, but you can get a new Dell laptop with a 3 year on-site warranty that covers accidental damage for $787.
Accidental damage includes "liquid spilled on or in unit, floods, drops, falls, and other collisions, electrical surge, damage or broken LCD due to a drop or fall, and accidental breakage (multiple pieces)".
Oh, and they'll come to your home or work the next day to perform the repairs instead of mailing it in or having to go to a retail store.

It sounds funny to say this, but I'd like to see Apple step up their customer service to the level of Dell.

[mad cow disease]

Originally Posted by mduell

Not quite $600, but you can get a new Dell laptop with a 3 year on-site warranty that covers accidental damage for $787.
Accidental damage includes "liquid spilled on or in unit, floods, drops, falls, and other collisions, electrical surge, damage or broken LCD due to a drop or fall, and accidental breakage (multiple pieces)".
Oh, and they'll come to your home or work the next day to perform the repairs instead of mailing it in or having to go to a retail store.

It sounds funny to say this, but I'd like to see Apple step up their customer service to the level of Dell.

1.) Dell repairs are outsourced to local companies, and the construction of their laptops is fairly straightforward. One (the smallest one they offer) is even a rebadge of a Taiwanese-designed laptop. The guy who shows up on your doorstep has never probably even spoken to a Dell representative, and only has the parts.
2.) If you've ever spoken on the phone with Dell tech support they are absolute garbage, assuming you can even understand what they are saying. I have friends who use me for tech support precisely because they spend hours on the phone with Dell and get nowhere.
3.) I really wish Apple still offered 24-hour free tech support like they used to about ten years ago.

[Rob van dam]

[QUOTE=mad cow disease]1.) Dell repairs are outsourced to local companies, and the construction of their laptops is fairly straightforward. One (the smallest one they offer) is even a rebadge of a Taiwanese-designed laptop. The guy who shows up on your doorstep has never probably even spoken to a Dell representative, and only has the parts.


Arent apple repairs outsourced overseas.Ive only had my recent onsite experience and from what i am made aware is that in Australia apple repairs are outsourced to authorised applecare reps who will boook you in when they have some free time.

[mad cow disease]

That may be what you Aussies do down there, but can assure you that US repairs are not outsourced. It wouldn't make any sense.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by mad cow disease

1.) Dell repairs are outsourced to local companies, and the construction of their laptops is fairly straightforward. One (the smallest one they offer) is even a rebadge of a Taiwanese-designed laptop. The guy who shows up on your doorstep has never probably even spoken to a Dell representative, and only has the parts.
2.) If you've ever spoken on the phone with Dell tech support they are absolute garbage, assuming you can even understand what they are saying. I have friends who use me for tech support precisely because they spend hours on the phone with Dell and get nowhere.
3.) I really wish Apple still offered 24-hour free tech support like they used to about ten years ago.

1. Yes, it would not make economic sense for Dell to actually have employees in every podunk city across America. Apple's laptops are outsourced to the same Asian ODMs that Dell uses.
2. I've not had that problem. Last time I called Dell tech support the guy had a bit of a southern drawl, but he was still quite understandable.
3. Apple still does, if you buy the right products.

[moonmonkey]

Originally Posted by mad cow disease

That may be what you Aussies do down there, but can assure you that US repairs are not outsourced. It wouldn't make any sense.

everywhere outsources.

[cdetdi]

Yeah, but the Dell thing:

they use such inadequate components, i've never seen as many power supplies fail (GX280s had this problem) or laptop hard drives die than with Dells. Even replacements are sometimes bad the moment we get them. It is really sad. My old dell computers and older laptops are still running great (4 years old, beige era) but recent machines are just junk!

cdetdi

[mrmister]

Dell may suck in the opinion, but I agree that I wish Apple would match that coverage.