Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

daimoni · 11:15 AM

.

Too Much Coffee Woman · Jun 21, 2002, 04:37 PM

do you work for apple?

how did you get a pre-release... may i inquire?

voodoo · Jun 21, 2002, 04:38 PM

Whee!!! Great, really.

I don't set my hopes up high, cause I have an iBook and well... A G3 is running it

<sigh> I'm not in this for the speed - I signed up for the mobility!!! Youbetcha!

You may get QExtreme and really fast graphics, snappy OS and a powerhouse with the G4 Towers, but you just try run round the garden with one o'them bebys under your arm. Haha!

(And you PowerBook owners, here's a fiver. Not a peep from you, OK?)

daimoni · 11:16 AM

.

daimoni · 11:16 AM

.

ReggieX · Jun 21, 2002, 04:50 PM

I had the prerelease a week after WWDC.

Ran well on my old Sawtooth, but I want a new video card. Can't afford a new machine for what looks like a VERY long time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

driven · Jun 21, 2002, 04:58 PM

I just upgraded my Cube's video card for this very purpose. (I yanked my Rage 128 Pro and shoved in a GeForce2).

I'm looking forward to this release.

How does Mail compare with Entourage? (Which I like).

voodoo · Jun 21, 2002, 05:00 PM

Mail is so much better. I lack words to describe the glorious experience that is Mail.app (did that sound brainwashed to you too?)

But seriously, Mail is VERY good. Obviously it helps that it is better integrated into OS X than Entourage.

Such are the ways of monopolies.

driven · Jun 21, 2002, 05:05 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by voodoo:
Mail is so much better. I lack words to describe the glorious experience that is Mail.app (did that sound brainwashed to you too?)

But seriously, Mail is VERY good. Obviously it helps that it is better integrated into OS X than Entourage.

Such are the ways of monopolies.<hr /></blockquote>Thanks for the update. I'll have to give Mail another look when Jaguar gets here. (I "poofed" mine off of the dockbar.)

undotwa · Jun 22, 2002, 12:02 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by driven:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by voodoo:
Mail is so much better. I lack words to describe the glorious experience that is Mail.app (did that sound brainwashed to you too?)

But seriously, Mail is VERY good. Obviously it helps that it is better integrated into OS X than Entourage.

Such are the ways of monopolies.<hr /></blockquote>Thanks for the update. I'll have to give Mail another look when Jaguar gets here. (I "poofed" mine off of the dockbar.)<hr /></blockquote>You traitor! How dare you think of doing such a thing! APPLE OWNZ YOU!

Sap · Jun 22, 2002, 01:54 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by driven:
I just upgraded my Cube's video card for this very purpose. (I yanked my Rage 128 Pro and shoved in a GeForce2).<hr /></blockquote>Good move. On my Cube with an ATI 128, Jaguar is unusable. I really hope QE will be optimized or made optional by the final release.

undotwa · Jun 22, 2002, 02:03 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sap:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by driven:
I just upgraded my Cube's video card for this very purpose. (I yanked my Rage 128 Pro and shoved in a GeForce2).<hr /></blockquote>Good move. On my Cube with an ATI 128, Jaguar is unusable. I really hope QE will be optimized or made optional by the final release.<hr /></blockquote>What build? I just hate it when people just say 'Jaguar'. Many people find that even without Quartz Extreme, Jaguar is extremely snappy. But that's mainly on the more stable builds.

Sap · Jun 22, 2002, 03:11 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by undotwa:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sap:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by driven:
I just upgraded my Cube's video card for this very purpose. (I yanked my Rage 128 Pro and shoved in a GeForce2).<hr /></blockquote>Good move. On my Cube with an ATI 128, Jaguar is unusable. I really hope QE will be optimized or made optional by the final release.<hr /></blockquote>What build? I just hate it when people just say 'Jaguar'. Many people find that even without Quartz Extreme, Jaguar is extremely snappy. But that's mainly on the more stable builds.<hr /></blockquote>The given out at WWDC. No idea about the build number.

juanvaldes · Jun 22, 2002, 03:23 AM

Guess I'll say it...it does little good to argue about the speed of a beta to a program. So many things are going to be fixed and optimized and put in place by release it just makes no sense.

But I would never argue with replacing a rage 128 w/ one supported by QE.

11011001 · Jun 22, 2002, 05:06 AM

Ya, the beta is buggy and incomplete. But it is a BETA. I can see tons of potentail when it is released in the summer. It is slick, very slick.

boots · Jun 22, 2002, 10:25 AM

[showing ignorance]

Ok, so I'm curious about the QE thing, and I know nothing about video cards. So here are couple of questions for those who are in the know:

I have a G4 400 Mhz that I bought about years ago. I have no idea if there is a nickname that goes with it. The system profiler says ATI 128 for the video card.

1) what does the vidoe card look like, and where is it located relative to the cpu?

2) what would be recomended as an upgrade?

3) is it hard to replace the card (I'm not scared of ripping things out, I have just never played with the video card before).

4) How much are we talking for a minimal upgrade? Recommended upgrade

5) Will it matter? I really don't think the interface is too bad. I went from 8.6 to 10, so I have no comparison with 9....will I, as just an average user, care? I mostry use word, xl, and ppt. I rarely play games that are at all grapghic intensive (freecell, shanghai, etc).

driven · Jun 22, 2002, 03:49 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sap:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by driven:
I just upgraded my Cube's video card for this very purpose. (I yanked my Rage 128 Pro and shoved in a GeForce2).<hr /></blockquote>Good move. On my Cube with an ATI 128, Jaguar is unusable. I really hope QE will be optimized or made optional by the final release.<hr /></blockquote>It actually got slower than 10.1.5?

10.1.5 was quite usable with my Rage 128 .... I thought Jaguar was going to be faster. (Even without the video hardware accelaration)

11011001 · Jun 22, 2002, 09:17 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by boots:
[showing ignorance]

Ok, so I'm curious about the QE thing, and I know nothing about video cards. So here are couple of questions for those who are in the know:

I have a G4 400 Mhz that I bought about years ago. I have no idea if there is a nickname that goes with it. The system profiler says ATI 128 for the video card.

1) what does the vidoe card look like, and where is it located relative to the cpu?

2) what would be recomended as an upgrade?

3) is it hard to replace the card (I'm not scared of ripping things out, I have just never played with the video card before).

4) How much are we talking for a minimal upgrade? Recommended upgrade

5) Will it matter? I really don't think the interface is too bad. I went from 8.6 to 10, so I have no comparison with 9....will I, as just an average user, care? I mostry use word, xl, and ppt. I rarely play games that are at all grapghic intensive (freecell, shanghai, etc).<hr /></blockquote>Um, the video card is plugged into one of your PCI slots, or one of your AGP slots if you got one. It looks like a card, if you open up the case you should be able to see ATI written on the card somewhere. It will have little chips on it, and a big central chip that will be the GPU. It's pretty hard to miss. Um, easiest way to figure out where it is, or which card it is, is to follow you monitor cable to you computer, and not where it plugs into on the back, the card that it plugs into is your video card.

An upgrade will help out with system responsivness. Even if you are just using word or excel, having a faster video card wil make everything more smooth, more responsive. You will feel it in how fast windows resize, whether you get smooth genie effects, moving windows around, navigating the finder... ect

Um, a GeForce 2 MX would not be a bad upgrade for your machine. It is like 200 or so in US. I think?

Is it easy to replace? damn easy. Just unscrew some screws and take it out. Your manual with your G4 will give you detailed instructions on how to do this...

rampant · Jun 22, 2002, 11:02 PM

A GeForce 2MX is really old by now... they should fetch about 50$.

driven · Jun 22, 2002, 11:06 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rampant:
A GeForce 2MX is really old by now... they should fetch about 50$.<hr /></blockquote>Actually about $50 for the PC. Between $100 - $150 on e-bay for Mac users. (If you require an ADC connector, otherwise I guess a regular ol' PC version with VGA would do.)

OwlBoy · Jun 22, 2002, 11:12 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sap:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by undotwa:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sap:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by driven:
I just upgraded my Cube's video card for this very purpose. (I yanked my Rage 128 Pro and shoved in a GeForce2).<hr /></blockquote>Good move. On my Cube with an ATI 128, Jaguar is unusable. I really hope QE will be optimized or made optional by the final release.<hr /></blockquote>What build? I just hate it when people just say 'Jaguar'. Many people find that even without Quartz Extreme, Jaguar is extremely snappy. But that's mainly on the more stable builds.<hr /></blockquote>The given out at WWDC. No idea about the build number.<hr /></blockquote>Holy crap nested quotes are weird to figure out...

You can get your build number by clicking on the version number in your about this mac box in the apple menu.

<img src="http://www.geektimes.com/images/mac-os-x-about-box.jpg" alt=" - " />
(this is not my about box / a Jag build

)

-Owl

milhous · Jun 23, 2002, 08:46 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by OwlBoy:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sap:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by undotwa:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sap:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by driven:
I just upgraded my Cube's video card for this very purpose. (I yanked my Rage 128 Pro and shoved in a GeForce2).<hr /></blockquote>Good move. On my Cube with an ATI 128, Jaguar is unusable. I really hope QE will be optimized or made optional by the final release.<hr /></blockquote>What build? I just hate it when people just say 'Jaguar'. Many people find that even without Quartz Extreme, Jaguar is extremely snappy. But that's mainly on the more stable builds.<hr /></blockquote>The given out at WWDC. No idea about the build number.<hr /></blockquote>Holy crap nested quotes are weird to figure out...

You can get your build number by clicking on the version number in your about this mac box in the apple menu.

<img src="http://www.geektimes.com/images/mac-os-x-about-box.jpg" alt=" - " />
(this is not my about box / a Jag build

)

-Owl<hr /></blockquote>Wow, that's really cool. I never knew you could actually click that area and get more info: Version, Build and Serial No.

driven · Jun 23, 2002, 12:15 PM

I didn't realize that either.

Too cool.

Sap · Jun 23, 2002, 02:33 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by driven:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sap:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by driven:
I just upgraded my Cube's video card for this very purpose. (I yanked my Rage 128 Pro and shoved in a GeForce2).<hr /></blockquote>Good move. On my Cube with an ATI 128, Jaguar is unusable. I really hope QE will be optimized or made optional by the final release.<hr /></blockquote>It actually got slower than 10.1.5?

10.1.5 was quite usable with my Rage 128 .... I thought Jaguar was going to be faster. (Even without the video hardware accelaration)<hr /></blockquote>Oh yeah, way slower. There's no way to turn of QE (not yet, anyways) and an ATI 128 simply can't handle it (not yet, anyways.)

The worst case scenario? Apple doesn't optimize QE and you'll have to go buy a PC branded Geforce2MX for $48 and flash it.

That should be more than enough for QE.

beb · Jun 23, 2002, 02:56 PM

Will Jaguar performance be any better than 10.1.5 on a FP iMac G4/800?

Just wondering...

austeros · Jun 23, 2002, 10:38 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by beb:
Will Jaguar performance be any better than 10.1.5 on a FP iMac G4/800?

Just wondering...<hr /></blockquote>hell yeah it will be. go read up on quartz extreme... that alone will make a huge difference

[ 06-23-2002, 10:40 PM: Message edited by: austeros ]

fulmer · Jun 23, 2002, 10:43 PM

I'm looking forward to a big evolution with Mail.app. I've been fond of it since public beta days, but it has always been primitive and weird. I'm a big fan of entourage, but will gladly switch and transfer my ~2500 messages over if Mail is up to it.

Footy · Jun 23, 2002, 11:06 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by daimoni:
[QUOTE] I'm waiting for a nice speedbump for the iMacs... <hr /></blockquote>Hmmm, how about an eMac!

It is a G4 and I'd say the price it right.