[Jim Paradise]

If you go here: http://www.nuclearfiles.org/maps/tp/hornetb.gif you'll see what I'm talking about. I've seen these lines in other photos of nuclear tests but haven't a clue what they are. Do any of you know? o.O

[Footy]

Hmmm, never noticed that before myself. Maybe it's part of the test precedure rather than from the explosion it self. I mean they look like individual rocket trails so maybe they set off rockets that test conditions or something at time of impact. If that's even possible.

[ReggieX]

I think footy's on the right track. I would guess they're sensor rockets.

[cdhostage]

Dunno.
Electrical discharges?

I wonder where they took this picutre. Nuke tests aboveground haven't been allowed for decades.

I know! You set off one bomb and it makes a bubble space underground. You can film the rest.

Of course, it's going to make the bubble larger with each blast.... and I do think that you have to dig really deep or modern H-bombs will reach right through to the surrface.

[Jim Paradise]

Originally posted by cdhostage:
<STRONG>Dunno.
Electrical discharges?

I wonder where they took this picutre. Nuke tests aboveground haven't been allowed for decades.

I know! You set off one bomb and it makes a bubble space underground. You can film the rest.

Of course, it's going to make the bubble larger with each blast.... and I do think that you have to dig really deep or modern H-bombs will reach right through to the surrface.</STRONG>

The picture was taken from the "Teapot" test series of nuclear weapons in 1955. Here's a photo from 1953 that has those sorts of lines too... http://www.nuclearfiles.org/maps/uk/xx39.jpg

Heh... no... I didn't set of any nukes. I use 1337 geek kung fu for all my bubble making purposes.

[AlbertWu]

high frequency emissions exposing the film? the lines appear to be more or less identical... dunno

[Jim Paradise]

Originally posted by Footy:
<STRONG>Hmmm, never noticed that before myself. Maybe it's part of the test precedure rather than from the explosion it self. I mean they look like individual rocket trails so maybe they set off rockets that test conditions or something at time of impact. If that's even possible.</STRONG>

Most nuclear weapons are detoned a few hundred to thousand feet above ground... increases the damage or some shyte like that if I remember correctly. I doubt it's sensor rockets because it's only in a few tests that I've seen these lines (hah... not that that's really proof of any sort but you know...)

I think cdhostage might be right in saying electrical discharge of sorts... the chemical reactions that occur during a blast are pretty intense...

[Jim Paradise]

Originally posted by AlbertWu:
<STRONG>high frequency emissions exposing the film? the lines appear to be more or less identical... dunno</STRONG>

Perhaps but I don't think so since it seems as though the lines are clouds of sorts. But you are right that they are almost identical in some ways.

*still puzzled*

[MikeM32]

The first image posted looks to be garden variety electrical discharge or lightning, in the second one the lines appear to be more like vapor trails or clouds rather than lightning. I'm stumped

Mike

[nealconner]

If any are reading the recent terrorist 'threats', most of us will be seeing nuclear explosions first hand. I suppose then we could tell what they really are before our eyes melt out of our sockets.

[Mac Zealot]

looks like a major case of electrostatic discharge to me

[Ozmodiar]

Actually I think it's just run-of-the-mill lightning. Splitting the atom must create a huge difference in ion concentrations, right?

[Jim Paradise]

Originally posted by Mac Zealot:
<STRONG>looks like a major case of electrostatic discharge to me </STRONG>

Seems to be the consensus!

Perhaps different weather conditions created different electrostatic discharge? Atomic lightning bolts anyone?

[kman42]

If they were electrical discharges, I don't think they would cross like they do in the first one. I can't imagine how multiple point ion sources could generate lightning that would cross in that manner. Intersteingly, there are seven going in each direction. It could be coincidental, but I'm guessing manmade. I'm going to go with some sort of sensor rocket, or **** flying up in the air.

kman

[kman42]

I found this: http://www.osti.gov/historicalfilms/...a/0800062.html

Here is a snippet, but I couldn't find the video. This is dealing with high altitude tests; I don't know if it would be similar on the ground.

Fishbowl Auroral Sequences - 7:50 - Color - Silent - BLUEGILL and STARFISH were high-altitude nuclear tests, part of Operation Fishbowl, conducted in the Johnston Island area of the Pacific Proving Ground in 1962. These tests produced auroral effects, a special feature of explosions where the extreme brightness of the fireball is visible at great distances. Within a second or two after the burst, a brilliant aurora appears from the bottom of the fireball.

The formation of the aurora is attributed to the motion, along the lines of the earth�s magnetic field, of beta particles emitted by the radioactive fission fragments. About a minute after the detonation, the aurora could be observed in the Samoan Islands, 2000 miles from the detonation. These auroras could be seen for approximately 20 minutes. The video shows footage of the auroras from Somoa, Mauna Loa (Hawaiian Islands) and Tongtapu (Tonga Islands) at various film speeds.

kman

[kman42]

Well, I guess I should have looked a little further. Here is a bunch of videos and their descriptions. Unfortunately, they require Real and I am Classic-free. Can someone convert a representative sample to quicktime?

kman

[Footy]

Originally posted by nealconner:
<STRONG>If any are reading the recent terrorist 'threats', most of us will be seeing nuclear explosions first hand. I suppose then we could tell what they really are before our eyes melt out of our sockets.</STRONG>

Pretty sure your sockets will be melting at the same time as your eyes.

[climber]

Those lines are actually the result of a serious of high pressure waves cause by the detonation, Those high pressure waves radiate from the center of the explosion, They are visible if the lighting is just right. You are actually looking at slight reflection of light passing through those pressure waves. The same effect can be seen in high speed macro photography of small munitions if the lighting is not properly controlled.

By the way, The above is a completer fabrication. In other words BS. Did it sound good?

[BlackGriffen]

Originally posted by climber:
<STRONG>Those lines are actually the result of a serious of high pressure waves cause by the detonation, Those high pressure waves radiate from the center of the explosion, They are visible if the lighting is just right. You are actually looking at slight reflection of light passing through those pressure waves. The same effect can be seen in high speed macro photography of small munitions if the lighting is not properly controlled.

By the way, The above is a completer fabrication. In other words BS. Did it sound good?</STRONG>

Nope, but it might sound right to someone who doesn't know better. It has to be man made: If the bomb caused the lines, they would be symmetric about the explosion. They look to me like rocket trails, probably for some time of sensors to measure the magnitude of the pressure wave and/or radiation (as others have stated).

BlackGriffen

[finboy]

They could be photographic artifacts. Esp. since they aren't uniform across the entire picture and they appear similar. Maybe some part of the lense passes wavelengths differently than another part of the lens. It's probably something purely mechanical like that. I've never noticed them before in any other photo I've seen of a mushroom cloud. So I'm saying "sh*tty optics" is the cause, since those kinds of things appear in astrophotographs from time to time too.

[FERRO]

I always assumed they were coated ignition lines held up by baloons that detail the pressure waves, etc as the bomb goes off...

doesnt sound so far fetched does it?

thou that doesnt explain the criss-crossed lines... which are strange enough by themselves, seems like the criss-crossed lines would have to be synthetic... here I would guess rocket trails...

[ 05-23-2002: Message edited by: FERRO ]

[nonhuman]

They certainly look like rocket contrails to me. I'm pretty sure that they did indeed use sensor rockets in the early atomic bomb tests, so that would be consistent. I don't remember for certain though.

[KellyHogan]

It's the nuclear bomb trying to stick two fingers up at the world.

[Gee4orce]

Well, if we have any readers from India or Pakistan, maybe they can tell us first hand in the next couple of weeks ?

[Cipher13]

They're rocket exhausts for a single very simple purpose: determining wind direction and speed at the scene of the detonation... if they're facing you, well, you don't really want to detonate it...

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Yup nonhuman is right. Rocket smoke trails.

They fire a series of rockets just before the blast in order to litterally make a grid against which to measure the size and force of the blast.

I remember seeing a film about nuke testing once where they showed this process and also I've read about it.

From one account I could find on the Tadje nuclear testing back in the 50's- where the Brits dropped by for a visit to light off some firecrackers in Australia's backyard (seems back in the day if you weren't hosting a nuke party you just weren't with it!)

"... the fireball was still luminous. It was moving, rising
rapidly, the gases were circulating very, very vigorously
and you could see that from the colours in the fireball that
it was against, ... The fireball itself was against a
pattern of smoke trails, triangular grid of smoke trails
laid by a set of rockets which had been fired just before
the nuclear explosion to provide a backdrop for the high
speed photography which was a very important part of the
information being obtained. So one saw this luminous disc,
or near luminous disc, against a white triangular grid of
rocket trails ...

View head on into the grid

[ 05-23-2002: Message edited by: CRASH HARDDRIVE ]

[starfleetX]

Originally posted by kman42:
<STRONG>I found this: http://www.osti.gov/historicalfilms/...a/0800062.html

Here is a snippet, but I couldn't find the video. This is dealing with high altitude tests; I don't know if it would be similar on the ground.</STRONG>

Why didn't you watch the MPG clips at the bottom? You can cleary hear the narrator say:

"Many rocket payloads were prepared for firing into and around the weapon detonation area."

Rocket exhaust trails. I think that solves your little mystery.

[cdhostage]

Well, I guess that snippet explains it. They are rockets, launched to spew smoke so that you can anzlyze the picutres better. if the mushroom is leaning over to the right, it's becuase of the wind. (seems that wind wouldn't be powerful enough to matter... whatver.

Wait a sec - iff those rockets are leaunched BEFore the test, then the shockwavfe would dissipate them! Ithink.

[kman42]

Originally posted by starfleetX:
<STRONG>
Why didn't you watch the MPG clips at the bottom? You can cleary hear the narrator say:

"Many rocket payloads were prepared for firing into and around the weapon detonation area."

Rocket exhaust trails. I think that solves your little mystery.</STRONG>

I didn't look that closely. I only saw the notice at the top of the page that said Real was required.

kman

[argod]

Originally posted by Gee4orce:
<STRONG>Well, if we have any readers from India or Pakistan, maybe they can tell us first hand in the next couple of weeks ?</STRONG>

http://www.boneill.blogspot.com/2002...l_archive.html

What fu.cking nonsense. What only white boys are suppose to be responsible
enough to have nuclear weapons. Especially when the comment is coming from a brit who created the partition problem to begin with.

If you are so concerned. Why did the West sell the technology and trained the scientist to begin with. First you sell the technology and then cry wolf that the bad guys have the weapons. Isn't your country try to sell
a sophisticated radar to an african country with two aircrafts.

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by argod:
<STRONG>
http://www.boneill.blogspot.com/2002...l_archive.html

What fu.cking nonsense. What only white boys are suppose to be responsible
enough to have nuclear weapons. Especially when the comment is coming from a brit who created the partition problem to begin with.

If you are so concerned. Why did the West sell the technology and trained the scientist to begin with. First you sell the technology and then cry wolf that the bad guys have the weapons. Isn't your country try to sell
a sophisticated radar to an african country with two aircrafts.</STRONG>

whoa there, boy. You're making quite huge leaps in logic. I think he was referring to the possibility that india and pakistan have both been in accelerated nuclear missile testing. I don't think HIS post was racially-motivated.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by argod:
<STRONG>
http://www.boneill.blogspot.com/2002...l_archive.html

What fu.cking nonsense. What only white boys are suppose to be responsible
enough to have nuclear weapons. Especially when the comment is coming from a brit who created the partition problem to begin with.

If you are so concerned. Why did the West sell the technology and trained the scientist to begin with. First you sell the technology and then cry wolf that the bad guys have the weapons. Isn't your country try to sell
a sophisticated radar to an african country with two aircrafts.</STRONG>

Hello.

Please take your medication. I very much doubt that anybody on these boards had anything to do with that, himself.

Brilliant.

[DBursey]

Is Argod associating Geeforce's comments with the content of his linked article? Is he feeling particularly sensitive today?

Geeforce was inferring that India and Pakistan, both nuclear armed, are on the verge of all-out war, which presents the frighteningly real possibility of a nuclear exchange.

India holds a considerable edge over Pakistan in terms of both the sheer size and the technological superiority of its conventional armed forces and the size of its nuclear arsenal. I do not believe that India would resort to first-use of its nukes. The same can't be said for Pakistan, which has repeatedly warned that it would consider using its nukes if it were to find itself being badly beaten during the course of a conventional confrontation.

The only 'race' this matter concerns is that of an arms race in southeast Asia. It's about military doctrine and the spectre of neighboring nuclear powers going to war, and all the attendant threats implicated in that scenario.

[Jim Paradise]

Well, thanks for help solving the mystery, guys!!

[11011001]

I just want to say I find the idea of ionizing air, or lightining completely crazy. If that were the case you would have symetry... and I might be able to spell.

sorry, I had a good chuckle at that though

wow, I am a arrogant jerk... well.. whatever!

[thunderous_funker]

Originally posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE:
<STRONG>Yup nonhuman is right. Rocket smoke trails.

They fire a series of rockets just before the blast in order to litterally make a grid against which to measure the size and force of the blast.

I remember seeing a film about nuke testing once where they showed this process and also I've read about it.

From one account I could find on the Tadje nuclear testing back in the 50's- where the Brits dropped by for a visit to light off some firecrackers in Australia's backyard (seems back in the day if you weren't hosting a nuke party you just weren't with it!)


View head on into the grid

[ 05-23-2002: Message edited by: CRASH HARDDRIVE ]</STRONG>

Nice work! That is really interesting.

By the by, that page with the Realtime clip of high altitude detonations...what is up with the muzak?

[Jim Paradise]

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
<STRONG>

Nice work! That is really interesting.

By the by, that page with the Realtime clip of high altitude detonations...what is up with the muzak?</STRONG>

Haven't checked out that link yet but I remember seeing some stuff on early high-altitude tests and how in one of them they knocked out the power in Hawaii for about three days (or three hours... I forget which )