[Catfish_Man]

Indeed. Rewritten does not always mean better

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Vista has some big security improvements, but other areas (particularly in user permissions levels) seem to be new ways of making the same mistakes, from what I've seen.

How so? I know next to nothing about Vista, and what I know I've already forgotten

[TheoCryst]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

How so? I know next to nothing about Vista, and what I know I've already forgotten

Vista's UAC is far too ubiquitous. The dialogs ask permission to do far too many things, but require a single click to dismiss (for admin-level accounts, which is still the default for Vista). Subsequently, users who really need protection the most are likely to simply stop reading them and just dismiss them as quickly as possible (and power users will just disable it). Even worse, the entire system is unavailable until the dialog is dismissed. Basically, Vista irritates people on a whole new level without really protecting them all that much.

[dimmer]

Vista, BTW, is NOT a rewrite of Windows (complete or in any other way) -- when it became clear that Longhorn wasn't going to happen, Vista was created from a Windows 2003 Server code base. So it's "just" a branch of Windows 2003.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by TheoCryst 

Vista's UAC is far too ubiquitous. The dialogs ask permission to do far too many things, but require a single click to dismiss (for admin-level accounts, which is still the default for Vista). Subsequently, users who really need protection the most are likely to simply stop reading them and just dismiss them as quickly as possible (and power users will just disable it). Even worse, the entire system is unavailable until the dialog is dismissed. Basically, Vista irritates people on a whole new level without really protecting them all that much.

Exactly. It's like they're trying to help social engineering attacks.

Originally Posted by dimmer 

Vista, BTW, is NOT a rewrite of Windows (complete or in any other way) -- when it became clear that Longhorn wasn't going to happen, Vista was created from a Windows 2003 Server code base. So it's "just" a branch of Windows 2003.

"Longhorn" was the codename for Vista (like XP was called "Whistler"). They're not two different products.

[typoon]

This Article might change your mind.

Review: Mac OS X Shines In Comparison With Windows Vista - News by InformationWeek

[- - e r i k - -]

As one who's actually using Vista Ultimate on my 24" iMac, I can tell you that it doesn't really have anything new to offer. It's mildly more attractive than XP, and that's not saying a lot. Even with changing the colours of the windows and turning of transparency I still can't stand the horrible static backgrounds that won't move with the windows (use it and you'll see what I mean) and the inexplicable teal colour on the borders. That pervasive teal everywhere is just driving me nuts.

There are some improvements to the general usability, and a whole slew of new annoyances - the freezing of the entire UI every time you have to "authorise" something, meaning clicking OK to some dialog box before continuing. Activation is a major pain even more so now. And don't get me started on the whole "Flip 3D" thing - talk about useless eyecandy.

What can I say? Windows Vista is just a Direct X enabler for me. Wintendo indeed.

[itguy05]

Originally Posted by dimmer 

Vista, BTW, is NOT a rewrite of Windows (complete or in any other way) -- when it became clear that Longhorn wasn't going to happen, Vista was created from a Windows 2003 Server code base. So it's "just" a branch of Windows 2003.

2k3 was based on the XP codebase, which was based on the 2k Codebase. The 2k codebase was based on the NT codebase, which was based on OS/2 with some VMS tricks thrown in for good measure.

In fact XP (and I'm assuming Vista) will still run OS/2 text mode apps....

And don't even get me started on the debacle that is the IE7/Office 2k7/Vista UI. WTF was MS thinking?

[- - e r i k - -]

They couldn't agree on one UI apparently. But then again, neither could Apple (even if they don't diverge that much from each other)

[ChasingApple]

Well, keynote over and no new macs, no os to show off, a new / old apple tv thingy we already knew about, and one slick phone / ipod.

At first glance I thought apple had just the product I was looking for, but it is not.

Zero office functionality which I need on the go, no ability for third party apps, and closed format.

For a phone it rocks, even the internet and the ipod feature rock, but not what I am looking for at all.

It looks like for an upgrade to my Palm TX I will be looking at a UMPC running vista mobile. CES is amazing and I have seen lots of gadgets tht may defeat my wallet, but nothing from apple this year so far fills my need.

I was really hoping for the 8-10 inch macbook with possible touchscreen, but didn't happen.

P.S. The more I play with Vista the more I like it. What happened to Leapard?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by ChasingApple 

. What happened to Leapard?

I have no idea what you're asking. It wasn't supposed to be out now.

[booboo]

From what I've read, Vista's 'security' measure look likely to promote insanity.

Review: Mac OS X Shines In Comparison With Windows Vista - News by InformationWeek

Also Ars technica is never short of insightful and balanced reviews of Vista vs OS X.

I too would like Apple to release media centre ready hardware. It would cost them next to nothing - a mobo from Intel in a horizontal box I can put under my TV. 1 PCIe and room for at least two 3.5" HD's. Oh, and a DVI to HDMI adaptor included . . . .

No, I don't want an AppleTV (with its apparent limitations) or a vedeo-challenged mini + external storage. I want something better suited for the purpose. If you don't 'get it' then you probably live somewhere where you can't recieve DTT over the air.

As far as software is concerned, eyeTV on the Mac is better than anything I've seen on Windows, and it integrates with Apple's Front Row and remote. Perfect!

edit: Oops! See someone beat me to it with the link . . .

[rnicoll]

Originally Posted by ChasingApple 

I am a mac fan and have been here at these forums for years. But today being at CES setting up and getting ready for the show has opened my eyes a bit. The whole industry is moving towards media center, HDTV, and UMPC's. There was A LOT of power in many computers being set up, and the UMPC's were freakin awesome. Most of the new stuff running already there on the floor was running Vista, it was everywhere! It was better then I thought it was going to be. I was very impressed with the computers we will have access to in the months to come, but what about Apple...?

UMPCs? The worst of both worlds mangled PDA/laptop hybrids? Well, I suppose someone had to think they're a good idea...

Media center... my Mac Mini does very well as a media center (running EyeTV and Frontrow). iTV should make things even better...

Originally Posted by ChasingApple 

Apple needs the UM-Mac, touch screen, and the iTV to work and work well. Apple needs new products if it wants to continue in the computer market. I will wait for Macworld for my final judgement but unless Apple has some really slick new hardware to show off I fear they will be left behind this year. I will be working at CES on Wednesday and Thursday so I will have more insight to all the new toys then. We have one huge convention center here in Vegas though! I really really hope Apple has some new gadgets in store for us, if not I know I won't be being a new Mac this year but instead getting me a new UMPC!

I think most people will prefer the iPhone to a UM-Mac, but maybe I'm wrong, not been the first time. Certainly, I'd prefer the iPhone (but am quite happy with my MacBook Pro, thanks).

Also... so these were all running Vista. Erm, so what? What does Vista bring that OS X doesn't? I think it looks better (and I actually have it running on a couple of systems, I should add), but that's it. Far too many confirmation requesters (Apple's idea of having configuration options lockable, and require username/password to unlock, is a lot better than requesting confirmation every time a control panel section is opened), incredible resource hog (it approximately halves the battery life on my MacBook Pro, and that's without talking about the memory requirements), and no real advantages that I can see.

[jhorvatic]

If Vista is so forward looking how come they copied everything from OSX and then left half of the features they said would be in Vista out where OSX already has them? Most of the experts call Vista a 5 year old operating system compared to the up to date operating system that is OSX.
Why is Vista already being hacked where OSX still remains untouched after 6 years running. There are millions and millions of OSX users out there so don't give me there aren't enough computers out there excuse either. I'm sorry your statement that Vista is more forward looking is bunk, FUD!

[OtisWild]

Originally Posted by msuper69 

I'm damn sure I won't get Vista anytime soon.

I'll stay with XP until World of Warcraft requires Vista, or until Apple releases the xMac. I want a Core 2 Duo/Quadro with 4 DDR2/3 slots and a PCIe x16 slot for bog-standard video cards, for $999 or less.

[dimmer]

"Longhorn" was the codename for Vista (like XP was called "Whistler"). They're not two different products.
and Longhorn was a complete re-write with such things as WinFS -- when Longhorn ran two years late, the decision was made to drop that effort and the "Longhorn" name was passed to the 2003 code base in order to get -something- out the door.

I don't know what the new codename for what was "Longhorn" is, Linux maybe?

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by OtisWild 

I'll stay with XP until World of Warcraft requires Vista, or until Apple releases the xMac. I want a Core 2 Duo/Quadro with 4 DDR2/3 slots and a PCIe x16 slot for bog-standard video cards, for $999 or less.

Don't hold your breath.

[OtisWild]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

Don't hold your breath.

Thus, the XP box. Unfortunately.

[mdc]

I am sitting here, at work, on a Pentium 4 2.4ghz with 1gb of ram, and a nice enough video card to support Aero (Windows Vista's new UI).

Put me in front of a computer and force me to use Windows and I'll ask for Vista, but that is the only time I'd ask for it. I'm not even going to comment on Vista vs. OS X.

Vista is prettier than XP, but in my opinion, that's where it stops. Long ago (I've been running Vista since September) I turned off UAC and I can stand it now. I was running Vista on 512mb of ram and it was infuriating. All of a sudden Vista would just stop (mouse cursor included) for about 15 seconds. I wanted to tear out my hair.

I can't stand how certain windows now hide the file edit bar by default, and I hate how everything has been moved around or made harder to find. The control panel now has 50 items in it and Add Remove Programs has been renamed to Programs and Features. Why? I have no idea.

I hate how Office 2007 will play nice with Aero but if you turn off Aero and go back to the dull Windows 95 look I prefer, Office 2007 does it's own thing, has it's own UI.

I hate how if anything Java bases runs Aero turns off.
I went to the tampabaylightning.com yesterday and they must have some Java Applet on their website, good bye Aero. I had to close Firefox for Aero to come back.

Flip3D is a waste of time, and a "Expose?! psssh, we have one of those too!". Thankfully someone created a free Expose clone for Vista which keeps me sane.

Yeah Vista is prettier than any other version of Windows, but honestly, when I get home I am so happy to see Mac OS X. Not because I'm a Mac user or anything, but I really do prefer the look of Mac OS X to Vista. I think Microsoft is just trying too hard and doesn't have "thought" behind their UI.

[dharknes]

Originally Posted by kmkkid 

These things are not big enough to warrant a point release. Steve Better have some REAL BIG SECRETS revealed tomorrow, or I can see a lot of people being upset with what leopard brings.

This exactly what a point release is for. Just to explain the versioning break down.

For example 10.4.9.

10 is the major version number of the OS and should only be changed when a major architectural change is made. For example MacOS 11 might be when Apple switches from the Mach microkernel to the L4 microkernel and from the Quartz rendering engine to the Nuclear rendering engine.
4 is the minor revision number and is incremented when there is a feature change in the OS or minor architectural change.
9 is the bug fix revision number and updated when security or bug fixes are applied. New features should NEVER be added to a x.x.y revision.

So it doesn't matter what Apple adds to Leopard as soon as they add a single new feature it gets the 10.5 point release number.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by mdc 

I think Microsoft is just trying too hard and doesn't have "thought" behind their UI.

"The real problem with Microsoft - and I don't mean this in a small way; I mean it in a big way - is that - [pause] they don't think of original ideas, and - they don't bring much culture into their product."

-Steve Jobs.

[ApeInTheShell]

I think you should change your name to "Chasing Microsoft" because you are more interested in the hype Microsoft is dishing out for Windows Vista. As someone said before, gadgets are great but there have been plenty of gadgets on the PC side like the tablet pc that were a disappointment.

You are worried about Apple because they do not release everything that accomodates yourself. There are going to be people like you who will not buy the iPhone because it's perceived as a closed system. But Steve Jobs did not say that Apple would be the only developer for the iPhone. He didn't even mention it.

The Apple TV also won't fullfill your needs because it is for people who have bought TV shows, music, and movies from iTunes and want to watch it in the living room. If you are satisfied with watching these things on your computer than good for you.

The Palm TX is a a good product but like many Palms and other handhelds it is just a PDA. I had a Palm where I had to keep track of the expansion cards, accessories, stylus, and so on and it just became clutter. Maybe this product is different but I just see more of the same. Apple is the industry leader in innovation. The Palm is a dying product line.