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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > macOS > Longhorn... M$s answer to OS X?

Longhorn... M$s answer to OS X? (Page 2)
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iPond317
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Oct 1, 2003, 04:30 PM
 
This guy is on crack and he's a moron. How can anyone take M$ seriously with a 'tard like him giving presentations?! Oh, well, I have 4 words for you Ballmer:

I HATE YOUR COMPANY! :-)

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it!
iPond317 | ODU Apple Campus Rep
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Hi I'm Ben
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Oct 1, 2003, 05:50 PM
 
that's because you're an ignorant fool.
Originally posted by iPond317:
This guy is on crack and he's a moron. How can anyone take M$ seriously with a 'tard like him giving presentations?! Oh, well, I have 4 words for you Ballmer:

I HATE YOUR COMPANY! :-)

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it!
     
iPond317
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Oct 1, 2003, 05:56 PM
 
Originally posted by Hi I'm Ben:
that's because you're an ignorant fool.
<yawn>
iPond317 | ODU Apple Campus Rep
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kmkkid
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Oct 1, 2003, 05:57 PM
 
Hmmm making fun of MS reps. Thats real mature. I'm sure a few things could be said about Mr. Job's too. Really, grow up people. You're all just jealous that you're not multi-millionaires.


Chris
     
CobraNT
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Oct 1, 2003, 06:07 PM
 
I just re-read my response....and I didn't say anything about a MS rep......just the bug fixes they sell as a new product.
     
klinux
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Oct 1, 2003, 08:40 PM
 
Originally posted by ZackS:
Uhh, I don't think Longorn is considered vaporware... It's in pretty heavy development right now. As for whatever OS X release is out then, I wouldn't call that vaporware either. They both exist; they're not unfounded marketing hype in front of no real product.

Example of vaporware, RealPC for OS X.
Well, I am pretty sure MS will come out with Longhorn just as Apple with 10.5. However, if it ain't shipping, it is vaporware to me. Check the definition: http://www.hyperdictionary.com/computing/vaporware.
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Brass
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Oct 1, 2003, 09:13 PM
 
Originally posted by klinux:
Well, I am pretty sure MS will come out with Longhorn just as Apple with 10.5. However, if it ain't shipping, it is vaporware to me. Check the definition: http://www.hyperdictionary.com/computing/vaporware.
Exactly. Copland was being actively developed for years, and yet it was always vapourware. Now it's not even that! It never became an actual shipping product.
     
klinux
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Oct 1, 2003, 09:20 PM
 
Wired's and Slashdot's annual vaporware lists are always fun to read.
2002: http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,57023,00.html
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CharlesS
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Oct 1, 2003, 09:57 PM
 
Originally posted by klinux:
Wired's and Slashdot's annual vaporware lists are always fun to read.
2002: http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,57023,00.html
Finale for OS X should be on that list.
     
ZackS
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Oct 1, 2003, 11:26 PM
 
Originally posted by Brass:
Exactly. Copland was being actively developed for years, and yet it was always vapourware. Now it's not even that! It never became an actual shipping product.
I think the key here is that Longhorn HAS to ship eventually. A company as large as Microsoft can't futz around with their flagship product like that. When Copland was being developed, there were still a team of people working on the Classic code base. As for Mac OS X 10.5 or whatever, Apple hasn't even mentioned 10.4 yet so you can't call it vaporware without even being announced.
     
Brass
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Oct 2, 2003, 12:43 AM
 
Originally posted by ZackS:
I think the key here is that Longhorn HAS to ship eventually. A company as large as Microsoft can't futz around with their flagship product like that. When Copland was being developed, there were still a team of people working on the Classic code base. As for Mac OS X 10.5 or whatever, Apple hasn't even mentioned 10.4 yet so you can't call it vaporware without even being announced.
I don't see any reason why Longhorn has to ship any more that Copland had to ship. I'm sure it will ship, but then we were all sure that Copland would ship too.

I'm sure it'll never happen, but there's no reason why Longhorn development couldn't get canned due to heading in the wrong direction, and then they'll start over again. They'll eventually ship something, but it need not be Longhorn.

(NB: I'm sure it will be Longhorn, however).

Come to think of it... I don't even know what my point was in the first place.
     
ZackS
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Oct 2, 2003, 01:12 AM
 
Originally posted by Brass:
Come to think of it... I don't even know what my point was in the first place.
That's why we're here

(My point was to defend OS X as not being vaporware (at last) and the fact that Apple never announces products anymore unless they're sure they'll ship. MS can go to hell, I'm not defending them. Just in my opinion, Longhorn shouldn't be considered vaporware yet.)
     
nobitacu
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Oct 2, 2003, 03:06 AM
 
Originally posted by kmkkid:
Hmmm making fun of MS reps. Thats real mature. I'm sure a few things could be said about Mr. Job's too. Really, grow up people. You're all just jealous that you're not multi-millionaires.


Chris
Correction... they are multi-billionaires, hehehe

Ming
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theolein
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Oct 2, 2003, 08:16 AM
 
Originally posted by Hi I'm Ben:
that's because you're an ignorant fool.
I've seen you post a numer of very pro PC comments, and was wondering, since you seem to feel that Macs and their users are worth nothing, if that Mac in your sig is actually being used. If not would you be interested in giving it away. I could use it for an extra Linux machine.
weird wabbit
     
theolein
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Oct 2, 2003, 09:02 AM
 
While I'm on a roll about Longyawn, I'll offer YAPOUP (Yet Another Piece Of Useless Philosophy)

The reason, I think, that so many Mac readers take such an avid interest in Windows Longhorn is that they are secretly worried about it indeed offering things on the Windows platform that are currently the sole province of OSX.

After that piece of blasphemy, I'll note that I think it's because some Mac people are indeed zealots that need a feeling of superiority of their platform in order to fell whole (and not 'hole).

This isn't to say that the PC world isn't just as full of Windows loving, defend_MS_at_all_costs people as well. It is. Go take a read on /. to see the bayings and zealotry of the Microsoft/Linux fanclubs. Microsofties will defend and excuse every last security vulnerability in IE or Outlook, as well as any highly dubious Microsoft business manouver, and the Linux crowd will make loud and moist statements on the supriority of OSS over Windows, even when a normal business user asks them unfruitfully for an alternative to AutoCAD on Linux, or a graphic pro points out that PhotoShop is indeed better than the GIMP.

All that said, I think Microsoft will produce a new version of Windows soon enough in the next couple of years. Knowing Microsoft I'm pretty sure that it will have all the following features:
  • A new compositing model à la Quartz.
  • The new compositing model will have dozens of new UI gimmicks, such as True Round Corners™, Non Modal Buttons™ with no connection to the dialog to which they refer, and The Invisible Panes™ with true transparency, making the panes exhorbitantly difficult to read.
  • A large measure of DRM in all media applications and continued PA for all applications.
  • Fully integrated .Net, although users will still be asking themselves what this is for.
  • A decent balance of new and old security vulnerabilities.
  • Fairly hefty system requirements for the core OS and the new UI, which thankfully, cost and productivity conscious users will be able to switch off to use the same UI that was in vogue back in 1995.
  • An increased reliance on Microsoft's rather confusing Task oriented approach to doing common tasks.
  • An attempt to lock in graphics card manufacturers into DirectX and an attempt to lock out OpenGL.
  • Strange new licencing schemes.
  • A .Net capable commmand line.
  • And finally, it will probably, as is WindowsXP, be an improvement on older systems in terms of reliability and security.
weird wabbit
     
Thain Esh Kelch
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Oct 2, 2003, 10:13 AM
 
Does anyone have a link for the Longhorn vs. Panther comparison at Steve's keynote? I dont feel like downloading that giant keynote again.. :/
     
beg-ne
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Oct 2, 2003, 08:41 PM
 
I guess after today the question about longhorn is, "Is this the version of Windows that won't leak a companies source code all over the internet?"

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/28619

Four years worth of work and potentially millions in engine license fees lost to game developer Valve because of Microsoft's shoddy products.
     
Simon
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Oct 3, 2003, 03:24 AM
 
Originally posted by beg-ne:
I guess after today the question about longhorn is, "Is this the version of Windows that won't leak a companies source code all over the internet?"

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/28619

Four years worth of work and potentially millions in engine license fees lost to game developer Valve because of Microsoft's shoddy products.
The guys have the nerve to put up an email address for people wanting to help them with this mess.

I was seriously considering to tell them to get Macs.

•
     
Judge_Fire
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Oct 3, 2003, 10:41 AM
 
Longhorn will also take the task- based UI of Windows further. I like the idea, as much as I like the Mac OS X way of tool- based thinking.

Both approaches have their strong points and can be taken further. I'm betting MS is throwing a lot of resources in exactly this, the user experience.

Evolving on different paths they now are,

J
     
Kurlon
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Oct 6, 2003, 05:12 PM
 
Originally posted by beg-ne:
I guess after today the question about longhorn is, "Is this the version of Windows that won't leak a companies source code all over the internet?"

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/28619

Four years worth of work and potentially millions in engine license fees lost to game developer Valve because of Microsoft's shoddy products.
Ugh, can't resist troll bate like that. Valve got nailed 'cause Valve was sloppy and lazy. They were aware of odd stuff going on on their nice fat, wide open network and never acted untill the leak hit the net. I don't care what OS you run, if you're not security consious your machine is wide open to the world.

In other news, the primary reason for Longhorn's delay as I know it is the revamping of the GUI proper, and implimenation of a DB backed storage engine. Search for the GNome storage project to see whats cooking. It's two really big projects, being crafted at once, so I can fully understand the long devel period.

I've run a recent build of Longhorn on a dual P3 800 using an ATi Rage Pro 8mb card, and other than my failing HD causing stuttering, it was more than usable on that low end video hardware. I believe however the 'minimum' for the tier 3 'full on' experience is going to be a DX 9 spec card running WHQL certified drivers, so my lily ATi is right out.
     
K++
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Oct 6, 2003, 08:29 PM
 
Originally posted by theolein:
I presume it will have most of the backwards compatibility that present Windows Oses have, so that can't really be the problem.
No it will not. MS has made it perfectly clear that longhorn will NOT be compatible with previous versions of windows. They have purposelly done this, most likely to force people to upgrade.


For those who love to mock MS, I wouldn't do that. MS has the resources and the staying power to implement just about any technology it wants, and if Apple slacks any time up until then, MS will trump them for features. I remember back in 2000 when Windows 2000 had been released how many Mac fans were dissing the supposed 64000 bugs in that OS, but that in the place I worked, and some others, a lot of Mac graphics types switched over to Win2000 as it was fast, stable, and ran all the software that OS9 people had as well or better than on OS9.
I doubt that, what you probably meant to say was that when they bought thier new 2GHz machine it ran faster than thier old 500MHz machine running OS9 that they had been using for several years and was beginning to show its age.

Additionally, the major software vendors Macromedia and Adobe, both previously Apple staples, now code for Windows primarily and it shows in the interfaces of products such as FlashMX and Photoshop, which are less responsive and more cluncky on OSX than they are under Windows.
Macromedia, yes has become garbage due to its focusing on PCs, but that is only due to Adobe's lawsuit over thier UI. Photoshop has the exact same UI it has had since 4 when it was MAC ONLY. The UI has changed very slightly since then.

All this might change, but, as I said, if Apple slacks off, MS will be there to gather thatt slack up. The battle is not yet over, so to speak.
MS is not a company to be afraid of. It may have the resources, but lacks the management, stlye, and vision of Apple or any else in the PC market. Even Sony has done more than MS has in terms of moving things forward, if Sony made software we could actually have alot more cool stuff out there.
     
Kurlon
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Oct 6, 2003, 10:25 PM
 
Originally posted by K++:
No it will not. MS has made it perfectly clear that longhorn will NOT be compatible with previous versions of windows. They have purposelly done this, most likely to force people to upgrade.
Could you provide some refrences to this? Everything I have seen, including playing with a recent milestone shows Win32 support / backwards compatibility is still fully functional.
     
ryaxnb
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Oct 7, 2003, 03:16 AM
 
Longhorn has a big dock (much bigger, and less practical IMHO then X it seems,) and it still doesn't carry the Start menu and taskbar. MS's dock instead has the clock, QuickLaunch and other XML thingies. The Longhorn dock is quite different from the Mac OS X dock, but they're both docks. MS's dock seems halfhearted, though. It would be easy for it ton integrate with the taskbar, but it doesn't. And the Quick Launch icons were moved over, perhaps to be more Mac OS X-like, but not the Start menu or running tasks. So, the docks, while different, are both docks.
Longhorn has a Quartz-like display layer. This is some of the most indication that they're copying Mac OS X.
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MusicalTone
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Oct 7, 2003, 05:30 AM
 
Like a previous poster stated, who care what happens with Windows. I am a happy OSX user and things can only get better on this side of the computing fennce.

I think that the majority of the public will stay with Windows whatever happens - it is good enough for surfing the web, checking your emails and using Wrod/Excel. It is cheap too.
     
 
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