[marden]

Originally Posted by Rumor

Not only should we train our teachers to be excellent marksman, but we should also train them to be ninjas. This way, they can easily bypass all the obstacles on their way to the gun locker.

Rumor
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Castle Greyskull
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So, your location is Castle Greyskull?



Who is your fave Masters of the Universe character?

[DBursey]

I'd like to hear what the teachers themselves would have to say to this idea.

I'm all for making our schools more secure. There has to be a better way than in coercing teachers to incorporate weapons training into their ever-expanding list of vocational needs.

Better, more secure, smarter buildings, more CCTV monitoring, hotlines to the nearest police dispatch, even armed (and decently paid) guards at the schools might compose a better solution.

My daughter is already drilled in her elementary school on how to deal with stranger intrusion as well as fire drills and such. Better awareness among the kids will hopefully lead to improved vigilance throughout the student body as well as its faculty.

[marden]

Originally Posted by DBursey

I'd like to hear what the teachers themselves would have to say to this idea.

I'm all for making our schools more secure. There has to be a better way than in coercing teachers to incorporate weapons training into their list of vocational training needs.

Better, more secure buildings, CCTV monitoring, hotlines to the nearest police dispatch, even armed (and decently paid) guards at the schools might compose a better solution.

My daughter is already drilled in her elementary school on how to deal with [istranger intrusion[/i] as well as fire drills and such. Better awareness among the kids will hopefully lead to improved vigilance throughout the student body as well as its faculty.

I can respect this point of view because it doesn't represent anything but a concern for finding the best way to prevent further deaths from deranged shooters.

[Rumor]

Teela, of course.

[art_director]

Originally Posted by DBursey

I'd like to hear what the teachers themselves would have to say to this idea.

I'm all for making our schools more secure. There has to be a better way than in coercing teachers to incorporate weapons training into their ever-expanding list of vocational needs.

Better, more secure, smarter buildings, more CCTV monitoring, hotlines to the nearest police dispatch, even armed (and decently paid) guards at the schools might compose a better solution.

My daughter is already drilled in her elementary school on how to deal with stranger intrusion as well as fire drills and such. Better awareness among the kids will hopefully lead to improved vigilance throughout the student body as well as its faculty.

Statistically speaking your child is not likely to see such an event while attending school. In fact, she's safer there than out in public.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Rumor

Teela, of course.

The body shape reminds me of photos of Cody Dawg. Is that why you like her?

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Rumor

Teela, of course.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

[art_director]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Your school district is going to spend a buck twenty on fancy locks?

Sorry, that was $1.2 million.

[art_director]

Originally Posted by black bear theory

i fail to see what events in a civil war in iraq has to do with the price of rice in china. plus if you are trying to play the numbers games i think your tallies are just a wee bit off: one order of magnitude on american military deaths and, very conservatively, two orders of magnitude in the iraqi civilian deaths (plus all those have occured in half the amount of time).

but that is neither here nor there. the thesis of the thread is that arming teachers would reduce school deaths. except in a few cases, generally the ones that make the news, having an armed teacher would not have prevented those death.

school shootings are committed by deranged people who wish to see people killed. and when dealing with that kind of threat it is nearly impossible to prevent someone from carrying out their wishes.

He brings everything back to Iraq, just like Bush.

[art_director]

Originally Posted by marden

And yet those shootings always end when confronted by people with arms and training.

Please don't try to pass off your opinions as fact.

...killing five female students before killing himself...

...
Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, carried out a shooting rampage, killing 12 fellow students and a teacher, as well as wounding 24 others, before committing suicide...

On Friday, Nov. 1, 1991 with a .38 caliber revolver and a .22-caliber handgun , he shot five people to death and seriously wounded another before committing suicide.

On Wednesday 13 March 1996, unemployed former shopkeeper Thomas Hamilton walked into the school armed with two 9mm Browning HP pistols and two Smith and Wesson .357 revolvers. He was carrying 743 cartridges...Hamilton allegedly then fired one shot with one of his two revolvers pointing upwards into his mouth, killing himself instantly...

[DBursey]

Originally Posted by art_director

Statistically speaking your child is not likely to see such an event while attending school. In fact, she's safer there than out in public.

Agreed. Now if only I could be reassured she's as safe there as at home.

[art_director]

Originally Posted by DBursey

I'd like to hear what the teachers themselves would have to say to this idea.

We have a number of teachers in the family in different states and with different opinions regarding guns -- some for some against. In all cases they agree they don't want guns. In fact, all but one has stated that they would change professions if such a change took place.

Mind you, I'm not suggesting all teachers feel this way.

Originally Posted by DBursey

Better, more secure, smarter buildings, more CCTV monitoring, hotlines to the nearest police dispatch, even armed (and decently paid) guards at the schools might compose a better solution.

As I stated earlier in this thread, our school district is looking to get a high-buck security system. They say, that with the flick of a switch, it will lock all the doors in the school district. By Minnesota state law classroom doors must be able to be opened from the inside so locking kids into the rooms isn't a problem. The potential for locking them into a wing of a building with a gun-toting freak is a very real possibility. What their $1.2 million security system will not stop is someone from shooting out the lock on the door and kicking it down.

Translation: High-tech, low security -- bad idea and waste of money, IMO.

[art_director]

Originally Posted by DBursey

Agreed. Now if only I could be reassured she's as safe there as at home.

I share that feeling.

[DBursey]

Any solution is going to butt against tight schoolboard budgetary considerations. But given the day and age, I believe the security of schools is or will become a much more important issue in terms of our children's safety and security.

At one time I might've chided myself for giving in to media driven fear mongering. But the size of today's schools, the implied violence in much of contemporary pop culture, and the rash of gun related shootings and copycat murders in schools throughout the western world gives ample reason to pause.

[DBursey]

We have a number of teachers in the family in different states and with different opinions regarding guns -- some for some against. In all cases they agree they don't want guns. In fact, all but one has stated that they would change professions if such a change took place.

I'm not at all surprised. The idea of arming teachers seems only marginally less absurd (in this part of the world - Taliban, are you listening?) than would be the arming of students.

[marden]

Originally Posted by art_director

Please don't try to pass off your opinions as fact.

...killing five female students before killing himself...

As armed authorities approached the school.

Originally Posted by art_director

...
Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, carried out a shooting rampage, killing 12 fellow students and a teacher, as well as wounding 24 others, before committing suicide...

Once the SWAT teams had entered the building and they knew they would be confronted by armed authorities they killed themselves.

Originally Posted by art_director

On Friday, Nov. 1, 1991 with a .38 caliber revolver and a .22-caliber handgun , he shot five people to death and seriously wounded another before committing suicide.

Here, once again, armed authorities had shown up:

A slamming and a running sound, the shout of police. He walks into an empty conference room, takes off his coat, folds it carefully, and puts it over the back of a chair. Checks his watch: twelve minutes since it began. Places the barrel against his right temple. Fires. Untitled1

Originally Posted by art_director

On Wednesday 13 March 1996, unemployed former shopkeeper Thomas Hamilton walked into the school armed with two 9mm Browning HP pistols and two Smith and Wesson .357 revolvers. He was carrying 743 cartridges...Hamilton allegedly then fired one shot with one of his two revolvers pointing upwards into his mouth, killing himself instantly...

Public Enquiry into the shootings at Dunblane Primary Sch 13/3/96

Read the account here and pick any number of occasions where Eileen Harrild, Mrs Mary Blake, Mrs Grace Tweddle or Mrs Catherine Gordon could have shot the assailant or forced him to surrender, saving lives in the process.

Thanks for your help in proving my point.

[marden]

Originally Posted by DBursey

I'm not at all surprised. The idea of arming teachers seems only marginally less absurd (in this part of the world - Taliban, are you listening?) than would be the arming of students.

If or when a number of terrorists take over a school like in Beslan you'll be asking what might have happened if there had been more firepower in the hands of the good guys.

I will advise you that there was a time when there was a heated debate over arming FBI officers.

Just goes to show that maybe FDR was right. Maybe North Americans have to wait for the attacks to occur before we get the message. If GWB had only waited until the jihadists attacked us first and it was a big enough attack THEN we'd all understand the danger.

Maybe if 5 or 10 students and staff are killed in school shootings maybe THEN we'd get the idea that giving the teachers a fighting chance would be the thing to do.

meh

[Chuckit]

And when a student shoots up his school with the school's own guns, how will you feel?

[DBursey]

If or when a number of terrorists take over a school like in Beslan you'll be asking what might have happened if there had been more firepower in the hands of the good guys.

Incredible display of Russian security ineptitude aside, you mean?

I don' think leaving the handling of terrorists to armed teachers will ever be a realistic proposition. For that matter I'd rather see armed guards in schools.

If I were to have sent my kids to school in Beslan, I'd expect perhaps a modicum of competence from the local security forces.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

And when a student shoots up his school with the school's own guns, how will you feel?

Unlikely to happen.

Guns wouldn't be drawn until there was an emergency where everyone was panicking and hiding and trying to escape.

The gunman wouldn't know where the guns were hidden nor who was authorized to access them. Also, because there would be multiple guns and trained staff involved the gunman would be outnumbered.

If a teacher saw that the gunman was watching he certainly wouldn't (shouldn't) reveal the gun location if the gunman could gain access to it.

Anyone who tried taking a gun from the hands of a trained teacher is likely to get themselves shot.

[marden]

Originally Posted by DBursey

Incredible display of Russian security ineptitude aside, you mean?

I don' think leaving the handling of terrorists to armed teachers will ever be a realistic proposition. For that matter I'd rather see armed guards in schools.

If I were to have sent my kids to school in Beslan, I'd expect perhaps a modicum of competence from the local security forces.

If you read the entire thread you'll see I have never said that armed teachers should supplant a well trained and equipped guard staff and security technology.

I say that the teachers should represent the last line of defense for themselves and the kids if all else fails.

If there is no technology or guard staff or if they fail for whatever reason, I want the teachers to have the option of saving the kid's lives and their own.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by marden

Unlikely to happen.

Guns wouldn't be drawn until there was an emergency where everyone was panicking and hiding and trying to escape.

The gunman wouldn't know where the guns were hidden nor who was authorized to access them. Also, because there would be multiple guns and trained staff involved the gunman would be outnumbered.

If a teacher saw that the gunman was watching he certainly wouldn't (shouldn't) reveal the gun location if the gunman could gain access to it.

Anyone who tried taking a gun from the hands of a trained teacher is likely to get themselves shot.

They wouldn't have to get it from a teacher. They would get it the same way the teacher would get it.

[DBursey]

f you read the entire thread you'll see I have never said that armed teachers should supplant a well trained and equipped guard staff and security technology.

I say that the teachers should represent the last line of defense for themselves and the kids if all else fails.

If there is no technology or guard staff or if they fail for whatever reason, I want the teachers to have the option of saving the kid's lives and their own.

You're right; I didn't read all of your posts in this thread.

Perhaps the idea of arming teachers would be more palatable in the U.S., with its well-entrenched gun culture and lobby.

I'd rather see each school district work out and drill an emergency response plan with the local police forces. Installing guns in schools would seem a step backward and would IMO send a dubious message to those we're trying to protect.