[piracy]

http://homepage.mac.com/stattenf/FutureOfMacOS9/

[voodoo]

Mac OS 9 meets the Dead Parrot scetch!

Made me laugh (the sound is a bit on the sore side though).

"It is dead Jim"

[juanvaldes]

that was awesome!

[mitchell_pgh]

Bingo: "It is dead Jim"

[juanvaldes]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
Bingo: "It is dead Jim"

indeed

...and he can go on all day

[CheesePuff]

Yeah, I went to the end of that session, and took pictures of the slides.

[mitchell_pgh]

I'm wondering when Adobe will go OS X only... they still seem to be doing dual OSs...

[snerdini]

I can't tell...is he bashing OS X?

[CheesePuff]

Piracy, is that you btw?

[asxless]

So does this mean that scheduling the Software Update control panel of an OSX orphan to check for updates more than once a week might be a little too often?

asxless in iLand

[swiz]

Future.
OS 9.

Isn't that an oxymoron?

[Cipher13]

How amusing

If you think OS9 is dead, how about you reboot to it. If you don't realise how goddamn slow OSX can be, then go ahead and delete it.

If you marvel at the speed, which most of you will... at the features which OSX doesn't have (such BASIC things)... labels, function key launching...

Heh. Yeah. OS9 is dead. Right.

There are more systems running OS9 than OSX, of that I gaurantee you.

[CheesePuff]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
How amusing

If you think OS9 is dead, how about you reboot to it. If you don't realise how goddamn slow OSX can be, then go ahead and delete it.

If you marvel at the speed, which most of you will... at the features which OSX doesn't have (such BASIC things)... labels, function key launching...

Heh. Yeah. OS9 is dead. Right.

There are more systems running OS9 than OSX, of that I gaurantee you.

No **** their are more OS 9 users than OS X, Apple says so themselves.

But going from 2.5 million to 5 million in 300 days is pretty amazing to me.

Also, I do go back to OS 9... every day at work. I can never do more than 1 thing at once because it locks up the whole system... even while just loading a web page.

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by CheesePuff:


No **** their are more OS 9 users than OS X, Apple says so themselves.

But going from 2.5 million to 5 million in 300 days is pretty amazing to me.

Also, I do go back to OS 9... every day at work. I can never do more than 1 thing at once because it locks up the whole system... even while just loading a web page.

Uh huh. That evens out considering everything you do is completed so much more quickly than with OSX.

I don't care what fancy features OSX has; a multithreaded system, SMP support, etc - FCP and Photoshop fly in OS9, and they simply CHOKE in 10.2.

[asxless]

I have 6 Macs running here at the house tonight: 4 OSX orphans and 2 OS X blessed. They are happily doing their thing(s) getting along and working well together. I'll bet these 6 Macs get along better than any random sample of 6 MacNN forum members

asxless in iLand

[Guy Incognito]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
How amusing

If you think OS9 is dead, how about you reboot to it. If you don't realise how goddamn slow OSX can be, then go ahead and delete it.

If you marvel at the speed, which most of you will... at the features which OSX doesn't have (such BASIC things)... labels, function key launching...

Heh. Yeah. OS9 is dead. Right.

There are more systems running OS9 than OSX, of that I gaurantee you.

If the lead programmer says it's dead...you're SOL! I know it's like a dagger through your heart but what can I say Cypher...you deserve it.

[Ghoser777]

Originally posted by Cipher13:


Uh huh. That evens out considering everything you do is completed so much more quickly than with OSX.

I don't care what fancy features OSX has; a multithreaded system, SMP support, etc - FCP and Photoshop fly in OS9, and they simply CHOKE in 10.2.

And therefore OS 9 isn't dead for you. Dead in terms of software is always relative. Is Paintworks 1.0 dead? Development wise: check. Could a poor, unfortunate school that only have Apple IIgs's still use it? Sure. And so it wouldn't be dead to them.

OS 9 is dead to Apple though, so hopefully two things will happen:
1) Apple will have some good updates that improve some of the performace issues with OS X (10.3 == free please)
2) Adobe and other large software makers will make higher quality applications (no no, not Cocoa applications, just better deisgned and implemented ones).

Matt

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Guy Incognito:


If the lead programmer says it's dead...you're SOL! I know it's like a dagger through your heart but what can I say Cypher...you deserve it.

Oh wow, that was mature. Learn to spell, bud.

And anyway, don't assume. You'll make more of an ass of yourself than usual.

I run OSX full time on 3 of my Macs... the others aren't capable of running it.

I'm also migrating work to OSX by next year.

I'm simply open minded enough to see it does still have VERY clear advantages... moreso than Painter 1.0... heh.

[Guy Incognito]

Originally posted by Cipher13:


Oh wow, that was mature. Learn to spell, bud.

Shut up Syfer!

BTW...you're averaging 13 posts a day...that's pretty ridiculous!

[undotwa]

Cipher, you are going absolutely nuts, carm down.

OS9 dead? Not yet. Windows 98 dead? Nope. They still have their uses and they will still be around for a while just like System 6-7.

[mikerally]

I'm going to refer to Mac OS 9 as "The Late Mac OS 9" from now on.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

That is beyond a doubt the biggest geek I have ever seen. He is like a slimmer version of the comic book guy. I thought only losers like that worked at Microsoft

[Adam Betts]

Originally posted by Socially Awkward Solo:
That is beyond a doubt the biggest geek I have ever seen.

I thought Bill Gate hold that crown?

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally posted by Adam Betts:


I thought Bill Gate hold that crown?

No this guy is even worse, he tries so hard to look funny. At least bill has billions of dollers.

[clebin]

I think Cipher's got a very good point.

Whether something's better than something else is hardly the issue, is it?

OS 9 may be dead from Apple development point of view. But how many users are going to misconstrue that? How many people think this means that Apple doesn't care about their opinions and isn't going to support them anymore?

OS 9 isn't even totally dead from a development perspective. Any OS X Server release will need to cater for MacOS 9. And any Remote Desktop release is going to need an OS 9 client.

Who amongst Apple's biggest buyers are wondering when these products will stop supporting OS 9?

Plus, there's The Register's very reasonable scenario where after new Macs don't support OS 9 anymore, a second-hand trade appears in machines capable of running OS 9 with pre-Carbon software? How does that hurt Apple's bottom-line?

There are people in companies who actually don't like Macs. Fools, right? But when Apple makes stupid statements for the sake of a quick gag (funny though both the OS 9 'death scenes' were) it's these people who raise their voices. Another blow to Apple in education or design or architecture...

OS 9 can't dynamically allocate memory either. Big deal.

Chris

[Hash]

Well said, clebin. And Cipher13 has good point.

[businezguy]

As a recent switcher from the PC, I was sold on OS X. I would not be a Mac user today without OS X.

I am looking forward to developers concentrating on OS X for development. I think we will see some awesome stuff on the horizon (including more game support for the Mac).

[Jerommeke]

Originally posted by Cipher13:


Uh huh. That evens out considering everything you do is completed so much more quickly than with OSX.

I don't care what fancy features OSX has; a multithreaded system, SMP support, etc - FCP and Photoshop fly in OS9, and they simply CHOKE in 10.2.

if you count in the prehistorical systems which can't even run os 9 or os 8 into that, okay, but otherwise: I guess no

[Amorph]

Originally posted by clebin:

OS 9 may be dead from Apple development point of view. But how many users are going to misconstrue that? How many people think this means that Apple doesn't care about their opinions and isn't going to support them anymore?

As many people as want to. The rest can probably figure out that Apple actually is making more effort to solicit their opinions than I can remember them doing in, oh, the last two decades or so.

Anyone who's ever bought a product with a support contract knows that support continues long after the official EOL of the product. If anything happened to my Cube, I could get parts.

OS 9 isn't even totally dead from a development perspective. Any OS X Server release will need to cater for MacOS 9. And any Remote Desktop release is going to need an OS 9 client.

But OS 9 is no longer a moving target, so that's a fairly light burden.

Who amongst Apple's biggest buyers are wondering when these products will stop supporting OS 9?

Their biggest buyers have contacts high enough within Apple to get a straight answer. In fact, their own needs probably have something to do with that answer, because Apple's stopping OS 9 development. They're not trying to force everyone to replace all the OS 9 boxes they already have.

Plus, there's The Register's very reasonable scenario where after new Macs don't support OS 9 anymore, a second-hand trade appears in machines capable of running OS 9 with pre-Carbon software? How does that hurt Apple's bottom-line?

Nobody said the transition would be clean. It still has to be done. Previous MacOS' have broken application compatibility before, and there's a lively trade in used Macs already. I suppose this trade could get larger, but if applications are being (re)written for OS X as a result of the cutoff, this trade will taper off over time.

On the other hand, if none of the myriad specialty apps migrate to OS X because OS 9 is still an option, how does that hurt Apple's bottom line over the long term? At this point, OS 9 is an albatross.

There are people in companies who actually don't like Macs. Fools, right? But when Apple makes stupid statements for the sake of a quick gag (funny though both the OS 9 'death scenes' were) it's these people who raise their voices. Another blow to Apple in education or design or architecture...

Unfortunately for your argument, the people who hate Macs hate MacOS. Apple is probably making its death as public as possible to reinforce the fact that the new Apple is not the Apple they hated. It's a UNIX vendor that also has the spiffiest GUI anyone's built atop a UNIX.

The people wailing are the people who had married their habits closely to OS 9, not the people who hated it.

OS 9 can't dynamically allocate memory either. Big deal.

Anything that limits the capabilities of the applications that the platform can support is a big deal. There are applications and games out for OS X that would never have come to the Mac if MacOS had stayed on. Not to mention Java 2. Apple has to make the new platform as attractive as possible, and that means getting as much development as possible moved over. That means OS 9 is dead. It goes without saying that it will be an awkward and painful transition in some ways, but either Apple goes through with it or Apple dies.

In the mean time, nothing they have done indicates an unwillingness to support the existing MacOS base until they upgrade; nothing indicates that they aren't listening; and nothing indicates that they aren't trying to be clear about what their strategy is. The people worrying aren't listening, and that's their problem. The truth is all around them.

[mitchell_pgh]

I think OS 9 is dead dead DEAD, but I still use it from time to time... There are still a few applications that just haven't made the jump, and others just haven't made the jump to OS X worth it...

OS 9 does run faster then OS X, but Windows 9X runs faster then Windows NT4... Theoretically, that's the type of jump that we are making...

OS 9 isn't going anywhere, but I don't see it advancing any... You are going to start to see people developing for OS X exclusively. Office X was the first major player, but eventually you will see Adobe do the same. When they do, it's all over...

Who knows about Quark.

If I did design only, I would probably still be using OS 9 for a majority of work, but as I have to work with Unix systems from time to time and small time web servers, OS X is my primary system...

[Northform]

I don't think I quite understood what he was saying...

[Deal]

Mac OS 9 is:

Out of birthdays

Worm food

Paid 20 silver

Entertained the Reaper

Ate the Salmon p�t� (had to throw my own Monty Python in there)

Ridden in the Caddy Station Wagon

Chasing Angels

[clebin]

Originally posted by Amorph:


As many people as want to. The rest can probably figure out that Apple actually is making more effort to solicit their opinions than I can remember them doing in, oh, the last two decades or so.

Maybe. I haven't made my mind up about this. Hard disks on the desktop and an Applemenu isn't a huge deal. They give away iTunes but charge for Quicktime Pro. It seems to me more strategic than anythin, and Apple have made plenty of unpopular decisions in the last few years.

On the other hand, if none of the myriad specialty apps migrate to OS X because OS 9 is still an option, how does that hurt Apple's bottom line over the long term? At this point, OS 9 is an albatross.

This isn't happening, and it's partly because Apple have been stressing the importance of OS X. But this was taking it a bit far - just my opinion.

Unfortunately for your argument, the people who hate Macs hate MacOS. Apple is probably making its death as public as possible to reinforce the fact that the new Apple is not the Apple they hated. It's a UNIX vendor that also has the spiffiest GUI anyone's built atop a UNIX.

How many of these people you talk about saw the keynote, then?

I bet a load of people who hate the MacOS regularly tune in to the webstream of Jobs' keynotes...

MacWorld is a place for Mac peole. If you want to reach the others you do it through regular, old-fashioned marketing. The problem with this was that only Mac people, who've stuck with the Classic MacOS through thick and thin, will see it. And it's...well... so negative.

Like you say, it's Mac people who will wail about it. My point really is that the people who don't like the MacOS will latch on to this, still not understanding the difference between 9 and X.

Positive marketing that stresses the newness and Unixness of OS X would reach everybody and wouldn't piss off the existing userbase.

But how many proper adverts for OS X have I seen?

I've seen adverts for 'look at how pretty our new Mac is' but I never saw anything saying 'forget what you thought you knew about Macs'.

My colleagues are very technically literate, but not one of them knew OS X was a new Unix OS.

This goading of OS 9 fans doesn't change that one bit.

Anything that limits the capabilities of the applications that the platform can support is a big deal.

So you decided every sentence in my post was wrong did you?

I mean, for f'sake... I was saying that the technical abilities of OS 9 were not relevant to this thread. I'd never have bought a Mac if it weren't for the prospect of a new OS with pre-emptive multitasking, dynamic memory allocation and the like.

Chris

[Amorph]

Originally posted by clebin:


Maybe. I haven't made my mind up about this. Hard disks on the desktop and an Applemenu isn't a huge deal. They give away iTunes but charge for Quicktime Pro. It seems to me more strategic than anythin, and Apple have made plenty of unpopular decisions in the last few years.

When haven't they? And what does that have to do with the transition to OS X?

"Apple is listening" doesn't mean "Apple is doing everything exactly the way everyone wants them to." It does mean that they're paying attention to what their customers want, and accomodating them as they can. I sincerely hope that the people who are still sticking to OS 9 out of necessity are making their needs known loud and clear to Apple, because that's the most effective way to bring OS X up to OS 9's spit and polish quickly and effectively. Some of the implementations will be different, but as long as the functionality's there, it's good.

[qb]This isn't happening, and it's partly because Apple have been stressing the importance of OS X. But this was taking it a bit far - just my opinion.[/qb]

That's largely why Apple has targeted the "OS 9 is dead" message at developers. Developers are generally pretty lazy (which is not a totally bad thing, if it's directed properly). Carbonization (or a rewrite in Cocoa, as Nisus is doing), is a project of unknown size and unknown expense, and this is compounded by the fact that OS X is still a moving target underneath. So a lot of firms are not going to make the leap until they're pushed. Yes, it's harsh. But Apple has targeted the harshest messages at developers: e.g., the movie at the start of this thread.

If it gooses the developers into moving over, it hasn't gone too far. Apple would be going too far if they intentionally tried to obsolete existing MacOS installations, but they aren't.

[qb]How many of these people you talk about saw the keynote, then?[/b]

It doesn't matter. That's what the press is for. The tech press follows Apple pretty closely these days, and Apple's keynotes and Special Events get mainstream coverage.

Outside of that, Apple's building up a pretty good buzz with product reviews, and even in UNIX- and UNIX-like conferences, where TiBooks are popping up left and right.

Like you say, it's Mac people who will wail about it. My point really is that the people who don't like the MacOS will latch on to this, still not understanding the difference between 9 and X.

If they have any Mac users to listen to, that is. Otherwise, disgruntled Mac people tend to air their complaints in fora that IT types don't even know exist (like this one), vs. Apple getting favorable coverage in InfoWorld magazine, and advertising.

Apple is marketing OS X as a UNIX (or UNIX-alike), both on their own site and in publications where the audience knows what that means (i.e., not Time magazine).

It's true that a lot of people simply don't do that much reading outside of what's immediately relevant to them and go about their jobs, but I have no idea what Apple's supposed to do about that.

I've seen adverts for 'look at how pretty our new Mac is' but I never saw anything saying 'forget what you thought you knew about Macs'.

My colleagues are very technically literate, but not one of them knew OS X was a new Unix OS.

This goading of OS 9 fans doesn't change that one bit.

I've seen far more "Mac == UNIX" pronouncements than I have announcements about the death of OS 9 development. Specifically, as you note, there are no ads that even refer to Macs being less desirable at one time (which would be goading OS 9 users, wouldn't it?). But, in technical magazines, there are ads explicitly identifying OS X as a UNIX. And a really nice one. If you haven't seen them, or any of the other articles identifying OS X as not only a UNIX but a 4.4BSD-based UNIX then I don't know what to say. Maybe Apple UK just isn't doing their job as well as the mothership is?

I was saying that the technical abilities of OS 9 were not relevant to this thread. I'd never have bought a Mac if it weren't for the prospect of a new OS with pre-emptive multitasking, dynamic memory allocation and the like.

Ah. Sorry if I seemed to jump down your throat that time. I didn't read that from your original post.


Chris [/B][/QUOTE]

[gorgonzola]

This thread was funny, and then it got really lame when you goons actually started arguing about whether OS 9 is dead.

Maybe sarcasm doesn't come through on the internet, but humor comes through pretty clearly on video.

Chill, sasquatch. Use what you want.

[clebin]

Originally posted by gorgonzola:
This thread was funny, and then it got really lame when you goons actually started arguing about whether OS 9 is dead.

Point taken. But this thread hasn't been funny since about post 6 or 7! And it would be as dead as OS 9 now if we hadn't all started arguing.

I don't think we're arguing about whether OS 9 is dead or not, though - just whether Apple is cajoling OS 9 people to move in the right way...

I haven't seen Apple positively pushing OS X at all like Amorph has. Maybe it's the UK, but all Apple seems to do is push its pretty hardware. The real crown jewels are the Mac OS. I want to see that on giant billboards.

And I guess that's what annoys me about them repeatedly killing the zombie OS 9.

I will concede that it was funny and it's Apple being good-old unconventional Apple... and it doesn't keep me up at nights!

Chris