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ISedlacek · Jul 14, 2003, 12:40 PM

I updated to Safari 1.0. First I could not believe but now I know it for sure, as I tested it. There is some new feature in 1.0, which causes not refreshing the website opened short time ago (when reopened), but it opens just an old copy of it !!. Even if you restart Safari ! Still the same state as was there 10 minutes ago. Mozilla opens the refreshed page immediately. Safari goes on opening an old copy of it for quite some time even after that (to get an illusion of speed ?) Well, I don�t find this kind of improvement very clever and useful,,,

Phanguye · Jul 14, 2003, 01:09 PM

hold shift while clicking refresh

Mastrap · Jul 14, 2003, 01:13 PM

Exactly.

Shift-refresh to force the display of new content has been a feature since the days of Netscape three IIRC.

I wouldn't quite call it a disaster

Adam Betts · Jul 14, 2003, 02:20 PM

Hold Shift-Option-Apple + Q

That'll make the page disappear magically.

ISedlacek · Jul 14, 2003, 06:32 PM

Well, it is certainly something which was not present in the previous versions and is not present in other browsers.
Since I installed the 1.0 version yesterday, I was quite surprised what is going on. I contributed to some forum and was taken back to the thread. But my contribution was not there (unlike thousand times before). I restarted Safari, opened the same page - nothing, just some old contributions without mine. I repeated twice the contribution - it never appeared there.
During the day, I looked at the same forum again - my reply was there three times (!). I tried again the same in Mozilla, the changes appeared there instantly, Safari showed just some copy of the same page from 10 minutes ago. I f I have to press some shift etc., this is something new. Till today it was not necessary and was happening automatically... (similarly as in other browsers)

King Bob On The Cob · Jul 14, 2003, 10:12 PM

Reasoning?
Safari caches PHP and CGI pages. Most other browsers don't.

ISedlacek · Jul 15, 2003, 12:16 PM

I do not understand much these technical details. but this kind of feature seems a bit annoying for me. Why should I open a website and see how it looked ten minutes ago or yesterday, unless I mechanically reload ????

crystalthunder · Jul 15, 2003, 04:30 PM

There are advantages to caching dynamic pages, but for the most part it is a burden because said dynamic site has to be expecting that behavior in order for everything to work correctly.

Personally I wish Safari didn't cache dynamic pages and I'm sure there is a way to turn that off, I'm just too dumb to know how -_-

Millennium · Jul 15, 2003, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by crystalthunder:
There are advantages to caching dynamic pages, but for the most part it is a burden because said dynamic site has to be expecting that behavior in order for everything to work correctly.

Personally I wish Safari didn't cache dynamic pages and I'm sure there is a way to turn that off, I'm just too dumb to know how -_-

There is a standard way for Web pages to tell browsers that they should not be cached. It's a meta tag, if I'm not mistaken. Safari obeys this standard.

This is, in the end, the correct way to do this. It allows pages that should be cached to be cached even if they're dynamic, while pages that should not be cached can say so.

poocat · Jul 16, 2003, 11:25 AM

this is, though, as most would agree, a problem with safari. the unnecessary caching of things that should not be cached, combined with the lack of a check as to whether the real contents have changed (which is the real problem) means that safari needs work.

but still, it's working better and better.
so glad espn is fixed.

poocat.

SomeToast · Jul 16, 2003, 11:35 AM

I had the same surprise with Safari 1.0's change in caching behavior.

Going to my music server's page would show the cached copy, which put the "Now Playing" woefully out of sync.

Adding the meta tag in the page's head to prevent caching straightened that right out.

Code:
<meta http-equiv="cache-control" content="no-cache">

Drizzt · Jul 16, 2003, 04:14 PM

Safari is doing the right thing, it's the web page that is not OK.

Never had a problem with all the pages I wrote (PHP + MySQL with lots of content change).

The website must specify if the browser should cache or not the webpage, or when the cached version of the page expires. If both are left, the browser usually keeps them a couple of weeks.

I had that problem a long time ago (with Win::IE) and found all the meta tags needed to solve it.

TheMosco · Jul 16, 2003, 05:44 PM

i was also annoyed by this on a bunch of sites. Download Safari enhancer and you can turn off cache.

V · Jul 16, 2003, 08:26 PM

It just happened to me on the VersionTracker site. I can't trust my browser anymore.

ISedlacek · Jul 17, 2003, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by Drizzt:
Safari is doing the right thing, it's the web page that is not OK.

Hmmm... So most of the webpages wrong, only Safari is right ...

What about if Safari adjusts to the majority ?

Drizzt · Jul 17, 2003, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by ISedlacek:
Hmmm... So most of the webpages wrong, only Safari is right ...

What about if Safari adjusts to the majority ?

No.. most web developpers are wrong, IE, Safari and Gecko are right..

I never had any problems with my websites after I found the fix, which was to tell the browser not to cache the dynamic content.

absmiths · Jul 17, 2003, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by ISedlacek:
Hmmm... So most of the webpages wrong, only Safari is right ...

What about if Safari adjusts to the majority ?

As has already been said so many times before, this is the correct behavior. Unfortunately, so many sites/browsers/proxies do the wrong thing that finding a perfect solution that works across the board is not possible. In this case, Apple followed the published standard rather than following IE.

I had an app once that was behind such a bad proxy that no matter what each page was cached by URL. We ended up having to append a random number to the end of the URL to force no caching.

If you have the bandwidth, and really care, just set your browser to always load a fresh copy.

By the way, you aren't really paying enough attention if this has never happened to you before. I encounter it on IE

C all the time. In fact, IE

C even caches FTP downloads! I constantly have to empty my cache before downloading small (< 20k) files, or else IE will keep downloading the same old version over and over.

BDiddy · Jul 17, 2003, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by poocat:
this is, though, as most would agree, a problem with safari. the unnecessary caching of things that should not be cached, combined with the lack of a check as to whether the real contents have changed (which is the real problem) means that safari needs work.

but still, it's working better and better.
so glad espn is fixed.

poocat.

Seriously, the lack of a scroll bar for ESPN.com was the only reason I kept from using Safari.... now, SO LONG I.E.!!! One less MS App....

Superchicken · Jul 17, 2003, 05:03 PM

yeah I had this problem with windows users on a site I work on a while ago having the cached page. Hence I found out how to use that meta tag and everything was peachy from then on.

But does that also prevent graphic cacheing?

ISedlacek · Jul 17, 2003, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by absmiths:

If you have the bandwidth, and really care, just set your browser to always load a fresh copy.

.

I would be most happy if you can tell me how exactly to do this, since it is quite annoying to have to load each page two times - first time with a version which was there half an hour before and than reload

Drizzt · Jul 17, 2003, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
yeah I had this problem with windows users on a site I work on a while ago having the cached page. Hence I found out how to use that meta tag and everything was peachy from then on.

But does that also prevent graphic cacheing?

No.. it's per object. And since images dont change but content do.. it's better this way