[Apple Pro Underwear]

This guy was a reverend and alledgedly participated in rampant adultery (according to some guy on my local news network, he said it was "widely known" and my google search agrees).

Does this ruin a lot of all the moral lessons he was teaching?

Personally, what he said was right but he was not the only one saying it. He gave a bunch of rousing speeches and was a great leader for the black community but when you speak from a position of such moral highground...you can't participate in adultery.

It's not so cut and clear for me as when i was a kid. I view him more and more as a standard political hipocrite each year.

[SouthPaW1227]

Holidays that encourage the very thing they're supposed to preach against are rediculous.

MLK Day only makes people CULTIVATE hatred towards other races.
Black History Month makes other races bitter towards them for having their own month.

How 'bout "worldwide greatness" day or something that doesn't discriminate.

[Captain Obvious]

Morality lessons, yes he was a hypocrite. But there was value and merit in some of his preachings. I personally don't think he deserves a holiday.
Let's see what OAW has to say....
I bet it will be highlighted with a few words in bold, those are always fun.

[BlackGriffen]

What does equality have to do with adultery?

BG

[Laauuren]

What, only elected officials are entitled to have affairs? He is celebrated for advocating nonviolent protest and civil disobedience as a means for advancing civil rights. You have to assess a leader based on relevant issues in my opinion. There isn't a holiday because he preached family values.

[quandarry]

Originally posted by BlackGriffen:
What does equality have to do with adultery?

BG

if you don't know i feel sorry for you. equality has more to then just with skin color.

king was a cheater of the worst kind putting on a front and ****ing around on his wife.

you think some people are intelligent and they come up with a remark that refutes their intelligence.

lord help us all!

rolleyes time;

[BlackGriffen]

Originally posted by quandarry:
if you don't know i feel sorry for you. equality has more to then just with skin color.

king was a cheater of the worst kind putting on a front and ****ing around on his wife.

you think some people are intelligent and they come up with a remark that refutes their intelligence.

lord help us all!

rolleyes time;

Interesting. A response with little substance and a flame to boot.

You don't have to be sexist to cheat on someone. Hell, if the significant other condones it, it isn't even cheating. Not trying to imply that King's wife did, just trying to point out that there are many possible structures for interpersonal relationships.

Or are you reaching for the stereotype that a prolific man is just using women for sex? What, the women aren't supposed to want sex too?

Looks like you're jumping to conclusions based on a stereotype here.

BlackGriffen

[historylme]

Originally posted by SouthPaW1227:
Holidays that encourage the very thing they're supposed to preach against are rediculous.

MLK Day only makes people CULTIVATE hatred towards other races.
Black History Month makes other races bitter towards them for having their own month.

How 'bout "worldwide greatness" day or something that doesn't discriminate.

I don't see how it CULTIVATEs hatred for other races. I'm all for teaching children equality, and what MLK preached. If only for building a positive foundation. It is only when they can process and understand more of the truth that they must learn the whole truth.

+please note, truth is relative to the individual.

[Apple Pro Underwear]

When you're in a position of influence and power speaking of morality, equality, justice, human rights, and with MLK... religion, something you do not do is break the sacred bond a man makes with a woman in sacred matrimony.


I on the other hand is some asswipe off the street, i can bang hoes and sluts and smoke crack everyday of my life because i have never even had the slightest interest in being a leader. The most i can claim is being a designer i do things to the best of my ability at all times concerning graphic design, but that's it.

See the difference?

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by history1me:
I don't see how it CULTIVATEs hatred for other races.

One cannot have a Black History Month without having a White History Month, Yellow History Month and Red History Month.
Equality = everyone is equal. Anything less always cultivates contempt.

Anyways. King's dream will never be attained in America until everyone drops their prefixes: "African-American", "Irish-American", "Italian-American", etc.. Until there's no prefix and everyone calls themselves simply "American", the problems will continue.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
One cannot have a Black History Month without having a White History Month, Yellow History Month and Red History Month.
Equality = everyone is equal. Anything less always cultivates contempt.

Anyways. King's dream will never be attained in America until everyone drops their prefixes: "African-American", "Irish-American", "Italian-American", etc.. Until there's no prefix and everyone calls themselves simply "American", the problems will continue.

Yep, well said.

[typoon]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
One cannot have a Black History Month without having a White History Month, Yellow History Month and Red History Month.
Equality = everyone is equal. Anything less always cultivates contempt.

Anyways. King's dream will never be attained in America until everyone drops their prefixes: "African-American", "Irish-American", "Italian-American", etc.. Until there's no prefix and everyone calls themselves simply "American", the problems will continue.

Well said. I think the kids should NOT have off from school today. They should be at school learning about what MLK was trying to do in this country.

I also agree there shouldn't be a Black History month unless you have a Month for every color.

The using of different terms for every race in the country is very divisive. we need to all be Americans. Not Black Americans, Asian Americans, Haitian Americans, Irish Americans, We all live in the Same Country. Yes it is important NOT to forget your culture but it is also important not to consider yourself different from your neighbor. In this country we are ALL Americans No matter what race religion or creed.

[voyageur]

These are not racial identities, they are cultural identities. I do believe we can keep our cultural identities and still achieve equality.
Martin Luther King was a great man, whatever his personal flaws. He had the ability to inspire like no one else. Moreover, he inspired people to achieve goals peacefully, even in demonstrations involving thousands of angry people. I was only a girl when he died, but the sound of his voice proclaiming equality, dignity and freedom were very moving to me. I remember my father cried when he died, one of only two times I saw my father cry.

[boots]

Do a little more searching and you'll find that King was a reluctant leader. He was basically forced into the spotlight by the black leaders who had too much baggage to start something.

Also, being married to one of the clergy, I would like to remind y'all that clergy are human. They come with all the faults and weakness that everyone else comes with. It isn't right to f�ck around on your spouce, So I don't want that to be used as an excuse, but I do urge people not to put clergy on a pedestal.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by boots:
Do a little more searching and you'll find that King was a reluctant leader. He was basically forced into the spotlight by the black leaders who had too much baggage to start something.

Also, being married to one of the clergy, I would like to remind y'all that clergy are human. They come with all the faults and weakness that everyone else comes with. It isn't right to f�ck around on your spouce, So I don't want that to be used as an excuse, but I do urge people not to put clergy on a pedestal.

All politicians are "Reluctant" leaders, they learned it from CEASAR. Oh, no, don't crown me almighty Ceasar! No, I say! No!...

Me thinks they all protesteth too much.

He was FORCED? You are joking right?

Was he forced to get married too?
I bet he was also forced to cheat on his wife.

We are what we do, not what we say.

[wdlove]

Today everyone is afraid. If you would stand up and speak up about any of the issues above then you will be called a racist

[boots]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
All politicians are "Reluctant" leaders, they learned it from CEASAR. Oh, no, don't crown me almighty Ceasar! No, I say! No!...

Me thinks they all protesteth too much.

He was FORCED? You are joking right?

Was he forced to get married too?
I bet he was also forced to cheat on his wife.

We are what we do, not what we say.

Forced? No. Strong armed? yes.

That is directly from one of the strong-armers: Dr. Lawesson.

[zigzag]

Those of you who object to the recognition given MLK and BHM are simply too young to understand the gravity of the events that gave rise to them. It's not just a recognition of an individual - it's a recognition of one of the two most sordid aspects of our history and the struggle to overcome it. In an ideal world, it wouldn't be necessary, so in that respect I understand your feelings, but this isn't an ideal world. The U.S. population is not limited to under-30 white folk and these things still weigh heavily on the minds of many people. This is one actually rather small way of memorializing one of the most important episodes in our history. Stop whining about it.

MLK wasn't necessarily even popular with the entire black community - many thought he was an appeaser and many others thought he was an opportunist. But that comes with the territory. He was a remarkable man and adultery is just one facet of the story.

[benign]

Adultery proves the guy was out
on a power trip just like everyone
who is powerful. Power is a mighty
aphrodisiac and its difficult to turn
your nose up at a little loving.

But the man cheating has nothing
to do with the message.
A message all caucasians need to
believe in - but like MLK, in practice
mostly its ignored.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by benign:
Adultery proves the guy was out
on a power trip just like everyone
who is powerful. Power is a mighty
aphrodisiac and its difficult to turn
your nose up at a little loving.

But the man cheating has nothing
to do with the message.
A message all caucasians need to
believe in - but like MLK, in practice
mostly its ignored.

I'll think about that next time I'm dissed by some African-American on the other end of the phone when I call customer service for SBC, NiGAS, CONed, or the like. I get treated so nicely by them, but when I speak to a caucasion person, no problems. Why is that?
STOP REVERSE RACISM.

I guess it's punishment for slavery.
I had nothing to do with it, I'm Italian-American... (tic).

And I prefer HONKY, or White Devil, don't hide behind the caucasion term.

When there is a white-american holiday, then
maybe I'll give a crap. US Stock Market is on
holiday because of MLK. Why?

I'm American, they are American, and that is
all I care about.

[boots]

Originally posted by zigzag:


MLK wasn't necessarily even popular with the entire black community - many thought he was an appeaser and many others thought he was an opportunist. But that comes with the territory. He was a remarkable man and adultery is just one facet of the story.

Let us not forget the "balancing" influence of Malcom X....

One view: We can get along (MLK)
Other view: We will never get along (MX)

I'll take MLK's dream over Malcom X's nightmare any day of the week.

[zigzag]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
I'll think about that next time I'm dissed by some African-American on the other end of the phone when I call customer service for SBC, NiGAS, CONed, or the like. I get treated so nicely by them, but when I speak to a caucasion person, no problems. Why is that?
STOP REVERSE RACISM.

I guess it's punishment for slavery.
I had nothing to do with it, I'm Italian-American... (tic).

And I prefer HONKY, or White Devil, don't hide behind the caucasion term.

When there is a white-american holiday, then
maybe I'll give a crap. US Stock Market is on
holiday because of MLK. Why?

I'm American, they are American, and that is
all I care about.

And I suppose you think that black folks never get dissed by white folks when they call customer service?

Look, I don't like ill-mannered black (or white, or Italian) folks any more than you do, and I get mad at them just like you do. That has nothing to do with MLK or BHM.

[ghost_flash]

Did you read the end of my post?

I'm AMERICAN, they are too, and that is all I care about.

It means, I'm sick of stupid holidays for ANY RACE.

[boots]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
Did you read the end of my post?

I'm AMERICAN, they are too, and that is all I care about.

It means, I'm sick of stupid holidays for ANY RACE.

It's not about race. It's about civil rights. And that is an "all-american" inclusive concept. His particular context was race, but it can and should be applied to other contexts as well: Culture, ethnicity, gender, etc. The dream wasn't exclusive to blacks. That's part of MLK's legacy that is often overlooked.

[ghost_flash]

Yeah,

I know so many other races that celebrate MLK because he is their hero.

Has no effect on my life except, I can't get my mail, and the stock market in the entire country is closed.

Oh, and it fires up all the AA's so they now remember to kill whitey.

[zigzag]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
Did you read the end of my post?

I'm AMERICAN, they are too, and that is all I care about.

It means, I'm sick of stupid holidays for ANY RACE.

Yes, I read the end of your post, and I think that's a good attitude to have, in an ideal world that doesn't acknowledge history. However, I also read the beginning of your post, which reminded me that we still don't live in an ideal world.

You guys aren't really bothered by MLK Day - you're bothered by niggaz with attitude (this is the second time APU has started a thread about it). That's understandable but it doesn't make MLK Day or BHM invalid. They came about for reasons that you're probably too young to fully grasp. Hell, I don't pretend that they're important to me personally, but I respect their reasons for existing.

No. Cheating on your wife is irrelevant. It's breaking a trust between you and your spounse, but it has nothing to do with equal rights for all citizens. Be it based on race, gender, or religion.

Was MLK wrong to cheat on his wife? Sure (IMHO), but it doesn't diminish his goal for equal rights.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by hayesk:
No. Cheating on your wife is irrelevant. It's breaking a trust between you and your spounse, but it has nothing to do with equal rights for all citizens. Be it based on race, gender, or religion.

Was MLK wrong to cheat on his wife? Sure (IMHO), but it doesn't diminish his goal for equal rights.

Sure it does, just like when BC had an intern in the 'O' oriface, diminished his ability to be a decent human being with any sort of morals.

I guess it is ok, if you do as he said, not as he did. Right? I'm finished with this thread.

[thunderous_funker]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
Sure it does, just like when BC had an intern in the 'O' oriface, diminished his ability to be a decent human being with any sort of morals.

I guess it is ok, if you do as he said, not as he did. Right? I'm finished with this thread.

You must be terribly terribly short on heros.

[mathew_m]

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
You must be terribly terribly short on heros.

Adultery is a sign of irresponsibility. A great leader or hero is responsible for his or her actions and the concequences of.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
You must be terribly terribly short on heros.

No, I just don't put anyone on such a high pedestal as all AA's have MLK.

My heros:

My father, who was a good man, worked hard
and was faithful to my mother his entire life.

Also,

Teachers
Policemen
Firemen
My friends because they give their friendship
freely and without expecation of anything in
return.

Are these enough heros for you?

[ghost_flash]

duplicate.

[davesimondotcom]

People have flaws. But the fact that King had a problem with faithfulness to his wife doesn't mean that he was a great man.

He taught many great lessons, and that's what he should be remembered for...

[sanity assassin]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:

I'm American, they are American, and that is
all I care about.

I agree to an extent, and in an ideal place it should be that way; but let's not forget that it was only a short while ago that African-Americans were classed, and treated as sub-humans. Just because one section of American life(whites) would like to just scrub any responsibilty for the reaction to that time now doesn't mean it will happen.
If you deal out injustice, be prepared for it to rebound in ways you can't forsee.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by davesimondotcom:
People have flaws. But the fact that King had a problem with faithfulness to his wife doesn't mean that he was a great man.

He taught many great lessons, and that's what he should be remembered for...

True:

But I don't admire him any more than anyone
else who taught great lessons.

What really pisses me off?
When someone thinks they have the right
to take this person's life. That pisses me
off.

[Apple Pro Underwear]

He taught many great lessons, and that's what he should be remembered for... [/QUOTE]

This is what most of you are thinking...

So we should only remember people by the good things they did now? MLK was more than a politician, he was a symbol for equality, human rights and justice. He could not even provide these qualities for his own family, how does this not demean his image and legacy?

Bill Clinton does not have his own holiday. BC is not a national hero. MLK is. I am suggesting MLK should be lumped together with BC. BC did some great things for America too, not as great as MLK but he contributed.

[sanity assassin]

Originally posted by mathew_m:
Adultery is a sign of irresponsibility. A great leader or hero is responsible for his or her actions and the concequences of.

where would you like to draw the boundary on what makes a hero? just adultary? how about drug abuse? alcoholism? etc.

I'm sure many hold dubya in high regard, almost a hero, but here's a man who avoids being honest about his coke abuse, his alcoholism. No-one said hero's had to be perfect, history is full of great minds, thinkers, religious personalities, and ye t almost all of them had some quality that could be disliked, but they are remembered for what they did, for what was thrust upon them in dire situations.

[zigzag]

Originally posted by mathew_m:
Adultery is a sign of irresponsibility. A great leader or hero is responsible for his or her actions and the concequences of.

A noble sentiment. That would eliminate Washington (slave owner; probably enjoyed the company of a few chippies along the battle trail); Jefferson (ditto); Eisenhower, JFK . . . the list goes on forever.

Let's face it - some of you guys just resent the fact that a black leader is officially recognized. The idea that you object because he was an adulterer is transparently disingenuous. But if it'll make ya happy, let's put an asterisk on the calendar: "*Note: Led the most important sociopolitical movement in modern American history, but had a few affairs." That'll put 'em in their place.

[MallyMal]

You know, I really don't understand why some people have a problem with African-American History Month. Did you ever think that if this part of history was taught in schools that there won't be a need for a dedicated month?

When I was in elementary and high school the only thing taught about African-Americans was that slavery happened, slavery was abolished, that MLK fought for civil rights and that he was killed. So, tell me, how is this equal?

Even in college, barely anything is taught about African-American history. If you want to know anything about African-American history you have to take African-American Studies in which I rarely saw a non-black person in.

Simply put, if the schools taught more about African-American history there would have never been a need for African-American History Month.

Furthermore, a lot of people try to say that MLK Day and African-American History Month cause racial tension. I disagree, I think racial tension occurs because people fail to understand why the above are important in the first place.

[sanity assassin]

i'm not one for remembering types of glory over others, or championing wars; but more for those who fight adversity, like King did.
I'd actually like Malcom X remembered, a man who not only took on the white superiority complex (disease?), but also went against the grain with religion in a predominately Xtian nation, that alone takes guts, and a personailty that is to be admired.

[OAW]

Originally posted by zigzag:

Let's face it - some of you guys just resent the fact that a black leader is officially recognized. The idea that you object because he was an adulterer is transparently disingenuous. But if it'll make ya happy, let's put an asterisk on the calendar: "*Note: Led the most important sociopolitical movement in modern American history, but had a few affairs." That'll put 'em in their place.

Indeed.

OAW

[OAW]

Originally posted by MallyMal:
You know, I really don't understand why some people have a problem with African-American History Month. Did you ever think that if this part of history was taught in schools that there won't be a need for a dedicated month?

When I was in elementary and high school the only thing taught about African-Americans was that slavery happened, slavery was abolished, that MLK fought for civil rights and that he was killed. So, tell me, how is this equal?

Even in college, barely anything is taught about African-American history. If you want to know anything about African-American history you have to take African-American Studies in which I rarely saw a non-black person in.

Simply put, if the schools taught more about African-American history there would have never been a need for African-American History Month.

Furthermore, a lot of people try to say that MLK Day and African-American History Month cause racial tension. I disagree, I think racial tension occurs because people fail to understand why the above are important in the place.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

OAW

[thunderous_funker]

Jesus was a wine bibber, and a friend to publicans and sinners.

[zigzag]

Originally posted by MallyMal:
. . . Furthermore, a lot of people try to say that MLK Day and African-American History Month cause racial tension. I disagree, I think racial tension occurs because people fail to understand why the above are important in the [first] place.

I think you're dealing with a generation that thinks segregation was just another political issue, like tax cuts, that a bill was passed and all of a sudden black Americans were equal and there's no need to contemplate it further. They have no idea of the effect it had on people's lives and on the country as a whole. I understand why they would feel that way - to them, it's ancient history - but it's like telling a WWII vet that because the war ended 60 years ago, it's silly for him to want to memorialize the event.

It probably would've been better overall to have a "Civil Rights Day" instead of a MLK Day, although they'd complain about that too. But the idea that MLK Day is invalid because he had affairs is rather comical. That's just a pretext for the resentment that some appear to feel.

[sanity assassin]

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
Jesus was a wine bibber, and a friend to publicans and sinners.

he was also quite the hypocrite at times too. How about Moses? He was responsible for massacring thousands of Midianite women and children, a different age? maybe, but many still hold him up as an example of morality.

[mathew_m]

Originally posted by zigzag:

It probably would've been better overall to have a "Civil Rights Day" instead of a MLK Day, although they'd complain about that too. But the idea that MLK Day is invalid because he had affairs is rather comical. That's just a pretext for the resentment that some appear to feel.

No the problem is that certain groups and people want to turn Civil Rights Day into The White Man's Burden Day. Those same people also wish to bludgeon us with welfare, reverse racism, affirmative action and slavery reparations.

I have no problem honoring MLK for his public actions. The civil rights movement was a good thing for America for all the right moral reasons. I just don't agree what it has turned into. Unfortunately MLK's personal problems which are conviently swept under the rug are what plagues many of the very people he 'liberated'.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by mathew_m:
No the problem is that certain groups and people want to turn Civil Rights Day into The White Man's Burden Day. Those same people also wish to bludgeon us with welfare, reverse racism, affirmative action and slavery reparations.

I have no problem honoring MLK for his public actions. The civil rights movement was a good thing for America for all the right moral reasons. I just don't agree what it has turned into. Unfortunately MLK's personal problems which are conviently swept under the rug are what plagues many of the very people he 'liberated'.

Well put.

[thunderous_funker]

1. "white man's burden"? do you know what that actually refers to?

2. what have social problems in the black community got to do with their 'liberation' under the law?

[mathew_m]

Originally posted by sanity assassin:
he was also quite the hypocrite at times too. How about Moses? He was responsible for massacring thousands of Midianite women and children, a different age? maybe, but many still hold him up as an example of morality.

Oh come on. Moses also lived to be 900 years old Let's keep our examples at least to the 18th Century.

[sanity assassin]

Originally posted by mathew_m:
No the problem is that certain groups and people want to turn Civil Rights Day into The White Man's Burden Day. Those same people also wish to bludgeon us with welfare, reverse racism, affirmative action and slavery reparations.

you can't help fault human nature at times. Honestly, what do you expect? it might be convenient for some people to want ot justsay 'hey, loof, lots of sh!t happend with you blacks cause of us, but hey guys, it's cool, now let's get along'. doesn't work like that, if you oppress a people for generations, they won't forget when the tide starts to turn. It night not be fair, and I'll agree with you on some of your points on affirmative action and so on, but what is happening is a direct result of the racism that was so prevalent. Just pray that it doesn't happen again with other non-whites.

[quote
I have no problem honoring MLK for his public actions. The civil rights movement was a good thing for America for all the right moral reasons. I just don't agree what it has turned into. Unfortunately MLK's personal problems which are conviently swept under the rug are what plagues many of the very people he 'liberated'. [/QUOTE]


that's the problem, he was up against centuries old behaviour, he wasn't going to liberate them physically, but he did in some ways to do it mentally, which is what counts. It might appear on the surface that all have equal rights, but it doesn't really pan out that way in every day life, for many African-Americnas.