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RevEvs · Apr 23, 2005, 07:56 AM

SO what is the unified title/toolbar look officially supposed to be used for in 10.4? or is it just going to be used everywhere?

Is there a specified rule from apple on the type of apps it should be used for?

this is the look of mail/sys prefs in 10.4 btw.

(it looks really really realllllly sweet in safari btw - id post a pic, but think i'll wait untill the 29th when its officially out and we can post pics etc on the fora)

EllMUK · Apr 23, 2005, 09:15 AM

Well there are now three different types of app skin, Plastic, Brushed and Stripe (although Stripe has been pretty much elimintated).
Acquisition, which on Panther had a Panther title bar has adopted the plastic look on Tiger for me. Safari is still brushed and hasn't changed to a plastic style.
System Preferences is now plastic along with Mail and several other apps. It seems like the plastic style is well and truly taking over on OSX. But, Apple still haven't got it right, three styles are just too confusing

siMac · Apr 23, 2005, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by RevEvs

it looks really really realllllly sweet in safari btw - id post a pic, but think i'll wait untill the 29th when its officially out and we can post pics etc on the fora

Er, isn't Safari brushed metal? I wish they would make it plastic though...

Catfish_Man · Apr 23, 2005, 03:50 PM

siMac: Interface Builder can change it

monkeybrain · Apr 23, 2005, 04:50 PM

That would be interesting to see. But would it make Safari lose some of its identity? Making Safari look unique among browsers was one of the reasons they made it brushed metal in the first place, in my opinion.

p.s. I read somewhere that the Safari toolbar in Tiger is a real toolbar (drag stuff about etc.) That seems too good to be true, is it?

goMac · Apr 23, 2005, 04:54 PM

From a technical standpoint, there really isn't a plastic look. "Plastic" applications use something called a "Unified Toolbar". As the name implies, this simply unifies the toolbar with the titlebar. A plastic application is really an Aqua application with a unified toolbar. Some applications in Tiger, like XCode, take on a plastic background instead of the stripes, but I think that is actually hardcoded in and not part of Tiger. I'm looking into this.

Also of note, the brushed metal look gets some significant enhancements under Tiger. Brushed metal white buttons have been standardized in Interface Builder so there is no more funky images for brushed metal white buttons. (I can't seem to find an example, but a segmented version was used in iPhoto 04 at the bottom). Level indicators (such as the one in Bluetooth keyboard/mouse prefs) have also been standardized, and are available to application developers. It's possible to make excellent looking brushed apps now imo.

The one annoyance in 10.4 is that apps using toolbars do not automatically adopt the Unified Toolbar look. You get a mix of apps with the old style toolbar and the new style.

Catfish_Man · Apr 23, 2005, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Some applications in Tiger, like XCode, take on a plastic background instead of the stripes, but I think that is actually hardcoded in and not part of Tiger. I'm looking into this.

This isn't true, in my testing. Even the quick tests with IB that I did looked identical to other unified toolbar apps (Xcode, Mail, etc...). Maybe you're talking about something else though.

TheGUiTom · Apr 24, 2005, 05:35 AM

I tried doing the Unified Toolbar look with all Apple's apps. It would work with Safari and Font Book. It also worked with MarsEdit. Too shabby it doesn't work with iTunes and iChat.

goMac · Apr 24, 2005, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by Catfish_Man

This isn't true, in my testing. Even the quick tests with IB that I did looked identical to other unified toolbar apps (Xcode, Mail, etc...). Maybe you're talking about something else though.

So far in my testing a app with a Unified toolbar still has a striped background. I have one running right now that I coded myself, and it has a striped background. My nightly build of Colloquy has a Unified Toolbar and also has a striped background. Mail doesn't show any background at all because no free space is left. This leaves XCode, which seems to have a hard coded background.

siMac · Apr 24, 2005, 07:29 AM

So what would I need to do to get a 'Plastic' Safari and Acquisition (mine's still Aqua)? And is a 'Plastic' Finder possible?

TheGUiTom · Apr 24, 2005, 08:22 AM

I tried it with the Finder but I couldn't find it.

If you want to do it with Safari you have to open Safari's "Browser.nib" file. Select "Window" in the window. Press Apple-Shift-I and tick "Has texture". This has to be turned off. Now "Unified Toolbar" will become available. Click it and save the .nib file.

Enjoy!

Sir Arthur Dent · Apr 28, 2005, 05:26 PM

Why can't I get interface builder to open Browser.nib? Or am I doing it wrong?

Sir Arthur Dent · Apr 28, 2005, 07:25 PM

Nevermind, I got it.

coldforge · Apr 28, 2005, 07:52 PM

Is it impossible to do the same thing with finder? I don't see any obious .nib files.

pyn · Apr 30, 2005, 09:03 AM

please explain how to open in interface builder...

moonmonkey · Apr 30, 2005, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by monkeybrain

p.s. I read somewhere that the Safari toolbar in Tiger is a real toolbar (drag stuff about etc.) That seems too good to be true, is it?

No.

It's not too good to be true, the toolbar is now a proper customizable one.

pyn · Apr 30, 2005, 10:21 AM

and it has a PRINT button now!

pyn · Apr 30, 2005, 10:33 AM

errr i found that i was in the wrong browser.nib but there is no unified toolbar to click after i unclick has texture?!

gregorj · Apr 30, 2005, 10:44 AM

There is really no "plastic" in the tiger gui -- with the exception of the usual elements such as scrollbars and open, close and shrink to dock buttons, although the main menu bar could be considered having a plastic touch. Mail and spotlight have more of a OS X iteration of platinum, and have no divider between title bar and the application.

This divider is a visual indicator in the apple HCI (human computer interaction) guidelines that distinguishes on what part of an applicationyou can place the cursor to drag it to a new screen location. You'll find in Tiger where this 'platinum' look is used, you can grab that application anywhere on the platinum area to move it -- which makes perfect sense for mail and spotlight.

The same concept has been applied to brushed metal applications such as safari and the finder.

pyn · Apr 30, 2005, 11:54 AM

wow safari really looks sexy with the platinum/unified look

siMac · Apr 30, 2005, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by gregorj

The same concept has been applied to brushed metal applications such as safari and the finder.

So why have both? Die brushed metal, die!

:dragonflypro: · Apr 30, 2005, 01:08 PM

Screenies would be cool at this point�

mdc · Apr 30, 2005, 04:34 PM

unified keynote, pages, proteus, preview

trying to get transmit unified.

virusb23 · 05:08 PM

Which .nib did you modify in preview?

Nevermind. For others, the file is PVImageDocument.nib

mdc · Apr 30, 2005, 05:01 PM

PVImageDocument.nib

Mediaman_12 · 06:37 PM

The 'PDF Viewer' part of Preview uses a different .nib (PVPDFDocument.nib I think) but when I try and open this in Interface Builder I get a 'Palette (PDFKit) was not found' error. Where can I find this 'pallet' (I assume it's some sort of Interface builder Extension?)
Address Book doesn't seem to like having the unified look applied, you can set it in Interface Builder (to ABWindow.nib) but it just sticks to being having a regular Aqua look

mdc · Apr 30, 2005, 07:14 PM

i did not notice that preview uses a different .nib file for .pdfs. i can't seem to open it either. i am having this same problem with transmit.

DavidHossack · Apr 30, 2005, 10:03 PM

It is in the dev tools folder. I found it in /Developer/Extras/Palettes

Not good news though. It converts the tool icons in the segmented control to the flat style. Unfortunately they are partly covered/not displaying correctly unless you do a customise toolbar action every time you open a window. :-(

Most apps look great with the Unified bar.

I guess nobody has found a good way to standardise the mail Toolbar

sweatervest · Apr 30, 2005, 10:21 PM

Perhaps we can create a list in this thread of apps that work with the unified look? Man, I wish it was possible with iChat and the Finder...

gregorj · May 1, 2005, 11:13 AM

"So why have both? Die brushed metal, die!"

Cause from a user's standpoint they heave entirely different functions: visual indicators on computers, much like web sites, are clues to functionality for average or less than average users.

Don't fret -- within a month I'm sure there will be a million and a half hacks to make your Tiger installation look like anything you want.

siMac · May 1, 2005, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by gregorj

from a user's standpoint they heave entirely different functions: visual indicators on computers, much like web sites, are clues to functionality for average or less than average users.

I see... and what, pray tell, is brushed metal indicating to my less-than-average mind that is 'entirely different' from what the unified titlebar indicates?

Originally Posted by gregorj

Don't fret -- within a month I'm sure there will be a million and a half hacks to make your Tiger installation look like anything you want.

Thank you, I am aware of such 'hacks'.

mr. natural · May 1, 2005, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by sweatervest

Perhaps we can create a list in this thread of apps that work with the unified look?

Yes, that would be nice, with the specific .nib files listed for each that makes the adjustment.

Hi I'm Ben · May 1, 2005, 09:39 PM

Adium:

mdc · 12:14 AM

bittorrent (4.0.2): TorrentWindow.nib
cssedit: gives a .nib file error
keynote: BGDocumentWindow.nib
pages: SLPublicationWindow.nib
preview: PVImageDocument.nib & PVPDFDocument.nib
proteus: MainWindow.nib & MessageCenter.nib
pspware: MainMenu.nib
safari: Browser.nib
sherlock: WindowStyle6.nib
smultron: MainMenu.nib
subethaedit: PlainTextEditor.nib
transmit: error
unrarx: MainMenu.nib
whatsize: AppController.nib
disk utility: DUWindow.nib

those are all the apps that i have unified.

goMac · May 1, 2005, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by sweatervest

Perhaps we can create a list in this thread of apps that work with the unified look? Man, I wish it was possible with iChat and the Finder...

The unified look only changes the toolbar. Therefore it should be possible in any app that uses a toolbar and not possible in any app that does not.

ender2002 · May 1, 2005, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by Hi I'm Ben

Adium:

How? or rather, can you post the edited file and tell me where to place it?

mdc · May 1, 2005, 11:36 PM

option click to download

* download the above .zip file, and then unpack the files.
* control click adium > show package contents
* Contents > Resources
* put the 3 new .nib files into the Resources folder.
(the 3 files are for the default contact list style, the preferences window, and the chat window)

quit and reopen adium.

i can not be held responsible if anything happens to go wrong by using these files.

gregorj · May 2, 2005, 12:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregorj
from a user's standpoint they heave entirely different functions: visual indicators on computers, much like web sites, are clues to functionality for average or less than average users.

I see... and what, pray tell, is brushed metal indicating to my less-than-average mind that is 'entirely different' from what the unified titlebar indicates?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregorj
Don't fret -- within a month I'm sure there will be a million and a half hacks to make your Tiger installation look like anything you want.

Thank you, I am aware of such 'hacks'.
__________________

Jimminy crickets -- he makes themes! big ****ing deal. you assumed I was calling you are less-than average. I'm merely describing the logic behind apples HCI design.

Hi I'm Ben · May 2, 2005, 12:12 AM

Greg, what the hell are you trying to say? I have a feeling it's rude but I don't really get what you're trying to address.

gregorj · May 2, 2005, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by Hi I'm Ben

Greg, what the hell are you trying to say? I have a feeling it's rude but I don't really get what you're trying to address.

Just responding to someone riding a high horse -- not trying to be rude. my initial post was simply describing apple's HCI guidelines. that simple - nothing else at all.

siMac · May 2, 2005, 02:24 AM

Originally Posted by gregorj

I'm merely describing the logic behind apples HCI design.

High horse comments notwithstanding, you haven't actually described anything. I asked you to tell me what feedback brushed metal provided to the user that the unified look didn't - you still haven't answered.

CaptainHaddock · May 2, 2005, 05:44 AM

High horse comments notwithstanding, you haven't actually described anything. I asked you to tell me what feedback brushed metal provided to the user that the unified look didn't - you still haven't answered.

Brushed-metal applications in OS X are supposed to be for panel-type apps, where the entire program consists of one panel with some controls; aqua (pinstripes) is supposed to be for all other apps, which are generally document-oriented.

That's why DVD Player, Calculator, and iTunes are brushed metal apps. It's why Preview, Pages, and most web browsers are pinstripe apps. Obviously, the decision to make Safari a brushed metal app (probably mandated from on high by Jobs) muddied the waters; and with unified bars, Apple seems to have obscured its excellent human interface guidelines somewhat further. (not to mention Garageband and the Pro apps)

siMac · May 2, 2005, 07:38 AM

Panel apps eh? So, for instance, Printer Setup Utility, Activity Monitor and Mail should be brushed metal too then?

I'm not having a dig at you personally, I'm just saying that if Apple are gonna throw the HI guidelines out the window then I'd appreciate it if they threw brushed metal interfaces out with 'em.

Adolf W. Bush · May 2, 2005, 07:41 AM

I can see this new look being overly used. It's a fine theme, has its place just like metal. But... after trying out the new VoodoPad (with unified thingy), the titlebar and toolbar now have less distinct areas.

delete · May 2, 2005, 09:26 AM

So should all apps have a .nib file that can be altered? I'd like to try Firefox.

Tick · May 2, 2005, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Hi I'm Ben

Adium:

That's hawt

Hi I'm Ben · May 2, 2005, 11:19 AM

I sure hope developers started opting for unified looks, because in all honesty I don't wanna have to go through and change all the preference panes and such everytime an update is released

.

ender2002 · May 2, 2005, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by mdc

option click to download

* download the above .zip file, and then unpack the files.
* control click adium > show package contents
* Contents > Resources
* put the 3 new .nib files into the Resources folder.
(the 3 files are for the default contact list style, the preferences window, and the chat window)

quit and reopen adium.

i can not be held responsible if anything happens to go wrong by using these files.

cool! thanks.

Mediaman_12 · May 2, 2005, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by delete

So should all apps have a .nib file that can be altered? I'd like to try Firefox.

Most (Coca) apps are created like this, Unfortunately Firefox (due to it's cross platform code base) is one of the few apps, which isn't

Mediaman_12 · May 2, 2005, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by mdc

bittorrent (4.0.2): TorrentWindow.nib

those are all the apps that i have unified.

acqlite - MainMenu.nib (change from a Textured app, looks lots better)

Unison - Unable to mod (GroupList.nib, MainMenu.nib & MessageList.nib all give "Palette (ESControlPalette) was not found" errors)