[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

It's silly to pretend all these things are related, and can be ranked together in some mish-mosh on a goofy list. The US ranks #24 for murder-per capita. Murder is a very rare crime- most people not themselves invovled in a seedy lifestyle are not all that concerned with the constant threat of being murdered- therefore it's a dumb indicator of a nation's "peace" for most people.

Crash makes a very good point here that their criteria seem kind of subjective. Maybe I'll come up with a "world's most peaceful places" list that takes into account the number of teen pop singers and Zen Buddhist monks.

[paul w]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

And nothing to learn from the other 95 either then eh?

Plenty, we all have a lot to learn from each other. But you know, other than voting and not joining the military, there's little to nothing I can do about things.

Besides maybe marrying a French woman working in humanitarian aid and development, make her a citizen to add one more peacenik vote to the mix in 2010 or so....

[Atomic Rooster]

Let's face up. The U.S. is lost and off the tracks. It's racist, bigoted, corrupt, rotting from the inside out in many kinds of thoughts and ways. It doesn't know what to do. A junkie needing a fix but in complete withdrawal. So it just lashes and thrashes about blindly.

And as long as people like Crash H. are in denial, well the gods help us all.

And learn Mandarin.

[Chuckit]

The US as a whole is racist and bigoted? Jigga who? Do you even live in the US, Rooster?

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

The US as a whole is racist and bigoted? Jigga who? Do you even live in the US, Rooster?

You KNOW I don't mean EVERYONE!

You must be deaf, dumb and blind if you question my statement. Do you live in a cocoon Chuck?

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster 

You must be deaf, dumb and blind if you believe my statement. I live in a cocoon Chuck.

Fixed™

[TheWOAT]

John McCain was exposed as being critical of Iceland during his 2000 Presidential campaign

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster 

You KNOW I don't mean EVERYONE!

You must be deaf, dumb and blind if you question my statement. Do you live in a cocoon Chuck?

I never said you meant everyone. But you did say America was characterized by those things, which I still think is a pretty big overstatement. Those things exist in America, but they exist everywhere. I don't live in a cocoon. Do you live in America? And if not, why do you feel so qualified to judge what it's like here?

[tie]

America has its racists, sure, but I think it is better than it has ever been, and is probably better than most other nations (Canada seems to be pretty tolerant, at least much tolerant of immigration, but I don't really know). Some areas of the country are worse than others, but these are typically the places you wouldn't want to live in anyway. I'm not sure what you mean by bigotry, but it is pretty clear, for example, that gay marriage is going to become a reality across much of the country over the next ten years.

Crash does seem to be in denial, since he cherry-picked the easy points and didn't address the larger issues (war, economy). Corruption has been getting much worse recently, but hopefully it isn't too entrenched to be turned around. Still, I do not think the US is at all "rotting from the inside out."

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

How are the numbers derived on the NationMaster site? I'm not disputing them, but is this public information or something? How is this info gathered?

"NationMaster compiles statistics from such sources as the CIA World Factbook, United Nations, World Health Organization, World Bank, World Resources Institute, UNESCO, UNICEF and OECD."

Yes, all the information is public, and readily available.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by tie 

Crash does seem to be in denial, since he cherry-picked the easy points and didn't address the larger issues (war, economy).

Pay attention. I listed the military related categories used in the rankings. None of them is any real indicator of a nation's "peace".

Why are you and some others so insistent on adding your own ass-pulled criteria that's not even part of methodology used to compile the list?

The economy??

First off, even if it did have a thing to do with "peace", in what delusion did you imagine that the US economy on it's WORST day, isn't far better off than the economies of a majority of nations on the list?

Did you eat something so rancid that you conjured up the illusion anyone in the US is clamoring for the economy of Botswana, El Salvadore, Cuba, or for that matter, the "peace" of Rwanda?

Why is it so hard to expect even the slightest amount of consistent logic with some people in this type of discussion?

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I never said you meant everyone. But you did say America was characterized by those things, which I still think is a pretty big overstatement. Those things exist in America, but they exist everywhere. I don't live in a cocoon. Do you live in America? And if not, why do you feel so qualified to judge what it's like here?

Just keep your head in the sand. It seems to be quite comfortable there.

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

Fixed™

May your god see fit to forgive you for being left behind my dear child. No child should have been.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

"NationMaster compiles statistics from such sources as the CIA World Factbook, United Nations, World Health Organization, World Bank, World Resources Institute, UNESCO, UNICEF and OECD."

Yes, all the information is public, and readily available.

Interesting... In that case, I guess the peace list doesn't tell us a whole lot, except that our military is involved around the world, which is no shocking revelation. American governments (Democrats and Republicans alike) have functioned as interventionalists, so it seems pointless to compare non-interventionalist countries with interventionalist countries.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by paul w 

Plenty, we all have a lot to learn from each other. But you know, other than voting and not joining the military, there's little to nothing I can do about things.

Oh ok, so the US is a dictatorship then. Thanks for clearing that one up.

[Hugi]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Crash makes a very good point here that their criteria seem kind of subjective. Maybe I'll come up with a "world's most peaceful places" list that takes into account the number of teen pop singers and Zen Buddhist monks.

"This list sucks. I'm gonna make my own list. With hookers. And Blackjack. In fact, forget about the list."

Seriously though. Lists like these are continually being made and some people always moan about them being unjust. Stop moaning and make your own list. A list that REALLY shows us how sublimely zen the Pentagon/US is.

[Chuckit]

I wasn't aware that I was "moaning." My intent was to comment on the topic of this thread.

You also seem to be assuming that I think the US should be on top of this list.

[Hugi]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I wasn't aware that I was "moaning." My intent was to comment on the topic of this thread.

You also seem to be assuming that I think the US should be on top of this list.

Whoops, sorry! I assumed you wanted the US on top because of your "teen pop singers for peace"-thing - sincerely, you're making really good numbers there .
Guess I could have just as well mentioned China rather then the US because of the Zen buddhism.

Seriously though, make your own list. What are your criteria for the most peaceful nations? Steve Jobs made a lovely rule at Pixar that basically says that if all you have is negative criticism, you don't say anything - you have to put forth better ideas. I like that idea. It shuts up people that don't have anything to say (this comment is *not* directed at you).

[analogue SPRINKLES]

So what should the US be judged by exactly? Your "freedom" or tolerance of others? cuz even then I think anything under 40 is pushing your luck big time.

[besson3c]

analogue: our crime rate and crime related deaths. Comparing our foreign policy to other countries is an apples to oranges comparison as long as we, as a so-called superpower, take an interventionalist approach to our foreign policy.

[paul w]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Oh ok, so the US is a dictatorship then. Thanks for clearing that one up.

Hey, if only. It'd be a lot easier to stomach if things were just imposed upon us with an iron fist. The system's truly screwed up. Money and stupid electoral college geographical rules play to big a part in our process and nobody seems to want to do anything about it.

My vote is useless because I don't live in a swing state. And the whole this guy or that guy system we got is screwed up too.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Hugi 

Whoops, sorry! I assumed you wanted the US on top because of your "teen pop singers for peace"-thing - sincerely, you're making really good numbers there .
Guess I could have just as well mentioned China rather then the US because of the Zen buddhism.

Zen is a Japanese form of Buddhism. The Chinese equivalent is Qan (Ch'an in Wade-Giles...).

[Chuckit]

Both "Chan" (the Mandarin name) and "Son" (the Korean name) are generally considered the same general school and both are often translated into English as "Zen." It's like saying Christianity is an American religion and Kirisutokyo is Japanese.

[besson3c]

Chuckit: do you like Chinese food?

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

Zen is a Japanese form of Buddhism. The Chinese equivalent is Qan (Ch'an in Wade-Giles...).

Qan might mean something in Arabic, but it definitely doesn’t in Chinese. Chan in Pinyin, Ch’an or Chan in Wade-Giles, depending on the flavour.


I wonder … since Crash has dismissed crime rates, economy, and war as ‘signs’ of peace or the lack of it, what would be good factors to measure by?

[Andy8]

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster 

And learn Mandarin.

Exactly.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

I wonder … since Crash has dismissed crime rates, economy, and war as ‘signs’ of peace or the lack of it, what would be good factors to measure by?

Number of unfair banninations ?

[/tangent]

-t