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Blade Runner: The Final Cut (Page 2)
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Has anyone noticed that the 5 disc ultimate HD-DVD version costs less than half of what the 5 disc ultimate DVD version costs?
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Ok, I just got this thing and I am at a complete loss. Other than "father," what exactly was changed?
Final Cut? Final Bilking is more like it.
Oh well, I've got the movie in Blu-Ray now, but it's the same flippin' movie I had on DVD.
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Originally Posted by Helmling
Ok, I just got this thing and I am at a complete loss. Other than "father," what exactly was changed?
Final Cut? Final Bilking is more like it.
Oh well, I've got the movie in Blu-Ray now, but it's the same flippin' movie I had on DVD.
Open your eyes!
What's new in Blade Runner: The Final Cut?
nexus5.
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Last edited by Nexus5; Jan 6, 2008 at 08:31 AM.
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Originally Posted by Eug
Blade Runner: The Final Cut was playing in the theatre here in Toronto last month. I didn't go see it though since I ordered the HD DVD.
You missed out, big time. I don't care how big your TV is, it'll never match seeing the brand-new prints in a quality theatre with a great sound system.
I snagged the 5 disc briefcase edition for the Workprint.
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I watched the movie again and after all these years there are still some things I don't get.
1) why is the earth such a wasteland?
2) If Ford is a replicant why does he not have super strength? Does he also have fake memories like the woman? Other than the unicorn dream and the origami what other clues are there that he is a replicant? Even so why does it matter if he is or not? He doesn't seem to think about it or care.
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I guess I just need to watch the original movie again, and then watch this "final director's cut". When I saw the last director's cut I was simply disappointed compared to what I remembered from seeing the original years and years ago. Of course, that could've just been my memory playing tricks.
Does this newest "final" cut include the original film, or is it only the updated one?
greg
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Originally Posted by Helmling
Ok, I just got this thing and I am at a complete loss. Other than "father," what exactly was changed?
Final Cut? Final Bilking is more like it.
Oh well, I've got the movie in Blu-Ray now, but it's the same flippin' movie I had on DVD.
You can't tell the difference in video and sound quality? What kind of TV/HT do you have?
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Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES
I watched the movie again and after all these years there are still some things I don't get.
1) why is the earth such a wasteland?
2) If Ford is a replicant why does he not have super strength? Does he also have fake memories like the woman? Other than the unicorn dream and the origami what other clues are there that he is a replicant? Even so why does it matter if he is or not? He doesn't seem to think about it or care.
1. The urban centers got massively overcrowded and the government "sold" the populace on the idea that there was more wealth and opportunity on the off-world colonies. Then, there was the mass exodus which largely left only the people who weren't cleared for space travel, either because of illness, age, or genetic defects.
2. Rachel didn't either. I think it has a great deal to do with how they're programmed, and whether they KNOW they have fewer limitations. Roy and his crew knew they were artificial from the start, Rachel found out in the middle, and Deckard the very end (if then).
Clues to Deckard being a replicant? He took quite a beating with very little rest, more than just about anyone could handle. Also, I got the impression that the police chief was talking about Deckard being the last dangerous "skin job" needing retirement, not necessarily Rachel.
Does this newest "final" cut include the original film
Yes, it does.
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Originally Posted by Shaddim
2. Rachel didn't either. I think it has a great deal to do with how they're programmed, and whether they KNOW they have fewer limitations.
Well we don't know that she doesn't as she was never given the chance to kick ass.
Also if Ford is a replicant hunter wouldn't make sense for them to program him to be equal in strength to who he is hunting over making him human and wimpy?
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Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES
Well we don't know that she doesn't as she was never given the chance to kick ass.
Also if Ford is a replicant hunter wouldn't make sense for them to program him to be equal in strength to who he is hunting over making him human and wimpy?
The only time she shows any aggression at all is when she shoots Leon, the rest of the time she's crying, confused, and pursuing Deckard as a love interest. It is rather plain that she doesn't have a clue that she's a replicant until after she fails the Voight-Kampff test, and everything is confirmed for her when Deckard tells her about her childhood experiences.
I think they programmed Deckard with enough ability and information to do his job, but without knowledge of his extraordinary physical abilities, that way he could more effectively blend into society. Or, they may not have given him enhanced strength at all. If he suspected he was artificial it may alter his performance and always make him nervous about getting "retired" by another blade runner.
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Originally Posted by ReggieX
You missed out, big time. I don't care how big your TV is, it'll never match seeing the brand-new prints in a quality theatre with a great sound system. I snagged the 5 disc briefcase edition for the Workprint.
I sure wish I'd seen it at the theatre.... why don't they keep showing it here and there? It could be like a traveling show. And you do realize that the regular version includes all the same discs and versions and movies at the briefcase version right?
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES
If Ford is a replicant why does....... does it matter if he is or not? He doesn't seem to think about it or care.
I think that's a brilliant observation! I think that's the overarching theme of the movie. That at some point it doesn't or won't matter if you're human or not.
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton
I guess I just need to watch the original movie again, and then watch this "final director's cut". When I saw the last director's cut I was simply disappointed compared to what I remembered from seeing the original years and years ago. Of course, that could've just been my memory playing tricks.
Well when I tried watching the original again I noticed that it has a super annoying folksy Harrison Ford voice-over narration talking thru all the beautiful moody shots that are so nice in the final cut, that I kinda forgot about.
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton
Does this newest "final" cut include the original film, or is it only the updated one?
Yeah, all the new releases contain all the same stuff.... The Final Cut, the Director's Cut from 1992, The American and European Originals, and the Workprint. The first and last mentioned are on individual discs but the middle three are similar enough that they are all on one branched disc together. There are two other discs of extras at least one of which is totally worth it.... all about the making of the movie, but it's on DVD so don't expect all 5 discs to be Blu.... the two extras ones are DVD.
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Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES
I watched the movie again and after all these years there are still some things I don't get.
1) why is the earth such a wasteland?
2) If Ford is a replicant why does he not have super strength? Does he also have fake memories like the woman? Other than the unicorn dream and the origami what other clues are there that he is a replicant? Even so why does it matter if he is or not? He doesn't seem to think about it or care.
1) It's cyberpunk!
2) I've got to say I don't see it in the movie much at all. In addition to the clues you mention, there's also his collection of photos. Most of the interpersonal stuff with Bryant doesn't seem to make much sense if he's a droid. The book is completely different, as with all Dick-inspired films, and it definitely has more ambiguity about what is real and what is artificial.
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Originally Posted by Shaddim
You can't tell the difference in video and sound quality? What kind of TV/HT do you have?
Oh, sure, it's HD, duh. But I'm talking about the cut of the film. All that eye-candy stuff is so overrated. I swear this HD thing is the biggest example of over-hype in entertainment history.
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i have never seen blade runner *ducks* should i lay down the money for the box set? how much is it usually?
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Originally Posted by Nexus5
I did actually catch the extra bits about Leon, and I didn't think I'd seen those hockey mask chicks before...but come on, these are pretty insignificant changes we're talking about.
This is a movie I've seen so often that I'm not going to watch the BD a whole lot (whereas if they'd put Firefly and Serenity on Blu-Ray, I'd buy 'em both in a heartbeat--if Ridley Scott thinks Sci-Fi is dead, he ought to open his eyes...take BSG for example), so it I should've known better than to spend $27 bucks on it, but stupid me, I was too intrigued by a "new" edit of the film.
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Originally Posted by brassplayersrock²
i have never seen blade runner *ducks* should i lay down the money for the box set? how much is it usually?
I never buy any movie without seeing it first. If you are the gambling type, though, you should first see if it's like other movies you enjoy.
Unfortunately, there aren't many movies like Blade Runner...
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Originally Posted by Helmling
I never buy any movie without seeing it first. If you are the gambling type, though, you should first see if it's like other movies you enjoy.
I'm the opposite! I try to not buy movies that I HAVE seen before. I try to find stuff that I've always heard is good but never got a chance to see.... such as Blade Runner in the case of BrassPlayer. If you take a date to a movie it's gonna be at least twenty dollars. What's the big deal about buying a movie for $30 without seeing it first? Then you can not only keep the movie afterwards, but you've already got your date at your place, eh?
Originally Posted by brassplayersrock²
i have never seen blade runner *ducks* should i lay down the money for the box set? how much is it usually?
Of course you fool!!!! Geez! It's one of the best movies of all time and it's finally available in a format that lets you actually see and hear it, and the way the Director actually wanted! .... And best of all it's the same price as a normal crappy old movie on Blu-ray for the whole 5 disc set! GO!!!
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Originally Posted by Helmling
Oh, sure, it's HD, duh. But I'm talking about the cut of the film. All that eye-candy stuff is so overrated. I swear this HD thing is the biggest example of over-hype in entertainment history.
Are you mad? Something must be seriously wrong with your eyes or your setup. The difference is like night and day, and the transfer for Bladerunner is stunning. It's difficult to believe that the film came out 25 years ago, it's a real testament to the engineers and editors.
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Originally Posted by Shaddim
Are you mad? Something must be seriously wrong with your eyes or your setup. The difference is like night and day, and the transfer for Bladerunner is stunning. It's difficult to believe that the film came out 25 years ago, it's a real testament to the engineers and editors.
Yeah that doesn't make any sense to me either. He doesn't care much about the movie or about HiDef picture and sound yet he's the first one to run out and buy a HiDef player and the first one to run out and buy the movie, and reads posts on a HiDef BladeRunner thread to tell us that HiDef and BladeRunner don't do much for him. It's odd.
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Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES
2) If Ford is a replicant why does he not have super strength?
Different model. Sean Young didn't have super strength either.
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES
Does he also have fake memories like the woman?
Yes, which is the only way Olmos could have known Ford had the unicorn dream. You can think of Olmos leaving the unicorn as similar to Ford telling Sean Young about all of her (supposedly private) memories.
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES
Other than the unicorn dream and the origami what other clues are there that he is a replicant?
Totally awesome scene with Ford and Young in Ford's apartment, when Ford looks up and you see the shimmery twinkle in his eyes. You only see that effect with other replicants.
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES
Even so why does it matter if he is or not? He doesn't seem to think about it or care.
Two things. He doesn't realize it until he sees the unicorn, so he doesn't have much time to process it. Secondly, when does Ford care about anything in the movie?
Ford's dullness is meant to contrast with Hauer's lust for life. This is meant to seem ironic, as you think Ford is human and Hauer is artifical.
Of course Hauer's lust is based in the foreknowledge of his death, so you can interpret Ford's dullness as the result of being fundamentally different, but not really having any understanding of it.
Hot damn I love this movie!
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I'm quite a fan of the movie and more than happy with the directors cut version, but I might pick this new version up when all the fuss dies down (and inevitably, the price).
Wait a year and you can get most DVD's for next to nothing.
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Originally Posted by mrtew
Yeah, all the new releases contain all the same stuff.... The Final Cut, the Director's Cut from 1992, The American and European Originals, and the Workprint. The first and last mentioned are on individual discs but the middle three are similar enough that they are all on one branched disc together. There are two other discs of extras at least one of which is totally worth it.... all about the making of the movie, but it's on DVD so don't expect all 5 discs to be Blu.... the two extras ones are DVD.
Alright, well I don't have HD, so I was looking at getting the DVD version. It's only a 2-disc package, and from what I can see from the packaging doesn't contain the original film version. That seems weird to me.
greg
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Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton
Alright, well I don't have HD, so I was looking at getting the DVD version. It's only a 2-disc package, and from what I can see from the packaging doesn't contain the original film version. That seems weird to me.
greg
The Final Cut and the Dangerous Days video are all you need. All you'll really miss is the lousy voiceover that nobody every liked, the sappy tacked on ending and the word f***er, from the original and you'll get more in return.
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Well it's the original ending that I wanted. I first watched it probably about 9 or 10 years ago, and the ending was what always stayed with me – the sun coming out as he was talking about what he had experienced, yadda yadda yadda. Of course I was young and foolish and didn't have near the impeccable movie-watching opinions that I now possess...so was it just really that good, or just cheese making an impression? I must find out!
greg
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The original ending is nicer, that's for sure, and it's fine really but a little too nice and happy and all tied up in a bow for such a dark and mysterious movie.
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Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton
Does this newest "final" cut include the original film, or is it only the updated one?
Only the 4 & 5 disc versions have the theatrical versions.
Originally Posted by mrtew
And you do realize that the regular version includes all the same discs and versions and movies at the briefcase version right?
The briefcase includes the Workprint, the 2 & 4 disc versions don't, so they're not the same.
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Reasons while I believe Deckard is a replicant:
• The unicorn dream and subsequent unicorn origami figure left by Gaff
• The collection of photos (Leon also had a collection of photos that was a topic of conversation in the movie)
• The shimmer in his eyes in certain scenes
• The lines in the movie, "Have you ever taken that test [Voight-Kampff] yourself?" "Too bad she wont live, but then again who does." and "You've done a man's job."
• Why is Deckard still on earth when everyone else who could have has left? Deckard isn't old, doesn't walk with a cane, doesn't have a genetic disorder (as far as we know), etc.
• The "rape" scene - we know that replicants have trouble with their emotional responses; Deckard seems to have some difficulty reacting to his feelings in the hallway scene with Rachel, much like Roy Batty does when he finds Pris dead.
While I don't know that there is any definitive answer, I suspect Deckard is a replicant for the reasons above. Now, does it matter? Depends, but certainly the movie was (at least in part) about what it is to be human.
And the high-def version (I have the Blu-Ray version) looks freaking amazing for a 25 year old film, even blown up to 106" at 720P as I have in my basement. Tons better than any previous version. Several continuity errors have been corrected and the scene with Zhora crashing through the glass windows (where it was obvious it was a stunt double in bad makeup) was corrected. Joanna Cassidy reshot the scene last year and her head was digitally grafted on to the stunt double. Looks seamless now.
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"The briefcase includes the Workprint, the 2 & 4 disc versions don't, so they're not the same????"
What is the 4 disc version? Is that DVD? I bought the Blu-ray set and it's 5 disc and does have the WorkPrint, but it's not the briefcase version.
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Last edited by mrtew; Jan 9, 2008 at 07:24 AM.
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Originally Posted by Cadaver
Reasons while I believe Deckard is a replicant:
• The unicorn dream and subsequent unicorn origami figure left by Gaff
• The collection of photos (Leon also had a collection of photos that was a topic of conversation in the movie)
• The shimmer in his eyes in certain scenes
• The lines in the movie, "Have you ever taken that test [Voight-Kampff] yourself?" "Too bad she wont live, but then again who does." and "You've done a man's job."
• Why is Deckard still on earth when everyone else who could have has left? Deckard isn't old, doesn't walk with a cane, doesn't have a genetic disorder (as far as we know), etc.
• The "rape" scene - we know that replicants have trouble with their emotional responses; Deckard seems to have some difficulty reacting to his feelings in the hallway scene with Rachel, much like Roy Batty does when he finds Pris dead.
While I don't know that there is any definitive answer, I suspect Deckard is a replicant for the reasons above. Now, does it matter? Depends, but certainly the movie was (at least in part) about what it is to be human.
And the high-def version (I have the Blu-Ray version) looks freaking amazing for a 25 year old film, even blown up to 106" at 720P as I have in my basement. Tons better than any previous version. Several continuity errors have been corrected and the scene with Zhora crashing through the glass windows (where it was obvious it was a stunt double in bad makeup) was corrected. Joanna Cassidy reshot the scene last year and her head was digitally grafted on to the stunt double. Looks seamless now.
Its no question, he is an replicant:
Ridley Scott confirms that Deckard is a Replicant
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I'd like to take Ridley's answer as gospel, but it's obvious from the movie that he left it a question whether he was a replicant 25 years ago, so it makes no sense to answer his own question now. Also, he didn't write the movie or the book it's based on so how would he know???
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Originally Posted by Cadaver
Joanna Cassidy reshot the scene last year and her head was digitally grafted on to the stunt double. Looks seamless now.
And Joanna still looks great, too! Wonderful fix, that.
As to Deckard, I think leaving it up in the air in the original release was not only intentional but a good move. It's subtle-only a few people would have noticed the eye effect (and correlated it to the replicants we knew were replicants). And with so many people in the film's LA of the future so disaffected or ground down, how hard is it to just call Deckard's emotional issues "being burnt out and cynical?" But is Ridley simply re-analyzing his own ideas from 25 years ago in saying he's a replicant? It's not mentioned in the (very long and exhaustive) documentary "Dangerous Days" that comes with both the "all the bells and whistles" and "Final Cut" versions except for that one little bit...
I remember when I saw the film the first time, I thought about how different the story was from Dick's, but how well it worked internally. I didn't even think that Deckard was a replicant-he had a history that other people (who we assume were real people) not only knew but shared. He seemed overly grizzled for someone his apparent age, and that seemed to go well with his being a "former" Blade Runner-burned out and retired due to the stresses of the job. I never noticed the eye effect until I started watching the documentary... And I may have simply ignored it as an artifact of the lighting if I'd seen it at all earlier on.
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Originally Posted by mrtew
Also, he didn't write the movie or the book it's based on so how would he know???
Because what you see on the screen is the director's intent, above all things.
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That's my point.... on the screen it never occurred to me that he was a replicant in all these years and in the book he was definitely human so it seems like Ridley's changing the story later.
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The lack of "fracker" in the movie was quite a jolt to me. I didn't think I would care, but "father" just doesn't sound right.
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Originally Posted by mrtew
That's my point.... on the screen it never occurred to me that he was a replicant in all these years and in the book he was definitely human so it seems like Ridley's changing the story later.
I never caught the idea that he was a replicant in two viewings. From the lists people are giving here it seems pretty subtle – or enough to be pretty ambiguous anyway.
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I was only 11 when I first saw it in the theater and I had no clue that Deckard was a replicant. However, much later when I bought it on LD, 4 side Criterion and WB Director's Cut, and it seemed rather obvious.
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When I first saw it in the theatre, I didn't clue in that Deckard was a replicant. However, at the time I too was just a kid. What I do remember though was absolutely hating that voice over.
When I saw the director's cut again later, then I thought about that possibility, but wasn't sure.
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Mac Elite
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Originally Posted by mrtew
That's my point.... on the screen it never occurred to me that he was a replicant in all these years and in the book he was definitely human so it seems like Ridley's changing the story later.
The movie is not the same as the book. The story is different because it's a different story. Ridley didn't change the story later. The reason why there is so much confusion about whether Deckard is a replicant or not is because a (crucial) part was removed in the first version: e.g. Deckards dream and the unicorn.
See the documentary.
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Last edited by yakkiebah; Jan 10, 2008 at 06:16 AM.
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Originally Posted by Cadaver
...and the scene with Zhora crashing through the glass windows (where it was obvious it was a stunt double in bad makeup) was corrected. Joanna Cassidy reshot the scene last year and her head was digitally grafted on to the stunt double. Looks seamless now.
Do you know more about the shoot? Was it just a new side view of her running along that was reshot? And the 'grafting' was the final front shot right? Did she model for that frame by frame or what.... it looks perfect. And how did she manage to not change in the last 25 years while Harrison aged at lease 40 ???
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I love the U.S., but we need some time apart.
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Addicted to MacNN
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Originally Posted by mrtew
That's my point.... on the screen it never occurred to me that he was a replicant in all these years and in the book he was definitely human so it seems like Ridley's changing the story later.
Well,that is the risk you run when a book gets made into a movie. The director has his own interpretations/improvements.
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Professional Poster
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"That’s not to say that it’s flawless. Detectives in the future, for example, appear to lack some basic common sense: when Bryant shows Deckard profiles of the Nexus 6 replicants, it’s clear they know exactly what they all look like. So why didn’t Holden, whom we see in an early scene giving a Voight-Kamff test to Leon, already know that Leon was a replicant? Didn’t anyone give him the mug shots?
Equally, if Deckard really is a Nexus 7 created to work as an exterminator, why is he lacking the strength of the inferior Nexus 6 models he is chasing? He seems to spend a large part of the film being bashed to a pulp."
Those 2 points really stood out for me also.
What's new in Blade Runner: The Final Cut?
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Clinically Insane
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Superhuman strength doesn't bode well for believability, if the purpose is to create a man that mimics real humans.
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Originally Posted by Eug
Superhuman strength doesn't bode well for believability, if the purpose is to create a man that mimics real humans.
Then why would would the hooker models be trained in burn resistant skin, super strength and acrobatic skills. Well some of those might come in handy actually.
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Last edited by analogue SPRINKLES; Jan 10, 2008 at 04:46 PM.
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Clinically Insane
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Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES
Then why would would the hooker models be trained in burn resistant skin, super strength and acrobatic stills. Well some of those might come in handy actually.
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Grizzled Veteran
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Could there have been a Deckard who was human, but killed by a replicant and his memories recreated in the Nexus 6 or 7 or whatever?
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Honestly I think the reason Deckard not having superhuman strength so he is at least equal to his enemies is just an oversite. The whole sub plot was a minor note that he didn't even admit to until a few years ago.
It is as well thought out as the continuity errors in the new star wars prequels. Darth Vader built C3-PO. Pffff, whatever.
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Originally Posted by placebo1969
Could there have been a Deckard who was human, but killed by a replicant and his memories recreated in the Nexus 6 or 7 or whatever?
I don't think one has to take it that far. No reason why Deckard can't be a replicant without super-strength. Rachel, as far as we know, didn't possess any of those qualities either. And she didn't know she was a replicant.
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Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES
Honestly I think the reason Deckard not having superhuman strength so he is at least equal to his enemies is just an oversite. The whole sub plot was a minor note that he didn't even admit to until a few years ago.
It is as well thought out as the continuity errors in the new star wars prequels. Darth Vader built C3-PO. Pffff, whatever.
You weren't paying attention! Anakin built 3-PO! Geez!
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Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
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Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton
Well it's the original ending that I wanted. I first watched it probably about 9 or 10 years ago, and the ending was what always stayed with me – the sun coming out as he was talking about what he had experienced, yadda yadda yadda.
Technical limitation: birds don't fly when it's raining.
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The Lord said 'Peter, I can see your house from here.'
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(
Last edited by mrtew; Jan 22, 2008 at 10:46 PM.
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I love the U.S., but we need some time apart.
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