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MacosNerd · May 23, 2008, 01:56 PM

I just read this ars and all I can say is WOW

90 minute cut scenes. The word excessive seems doesn't even seem to fit the bill.

analogue SPRINKLES · May 23, 2008, 02:01 PM

My lord, I can't believe there is even ONE 90 minute cut scene. In fact a 10 minute one would shock me.

I couldn't even handle them in GTA4 after a while and they were 2 minutes.

Note to self... do not get this game.

Dakar the Fourth · May 23, 2008, 02:07 PM

That's brutal. I can barely stand 2 minute scenes in GTA.

Luca Rescigno · May 23, 2008, 02:13 PM

None of you guys must have ever played the previous games in the series. Metal Gear Solid has always had tons of cutscenes. I played MGS3 a couple years back and there were several cutscenes (mostly involving a character explaining a whole lot of backstory) that were probably 10-20 minutes long.

You shouldn't avoid it just because it has long cutscenes. I'm sure you can pause them and skip them, especially since they're so long. The thing about the MGS series is that the storyline is so incredibly twisted up into knots that you're really not missing out on anything by skipping the cutscenes. If you tried to understand everything, your head would probably explode. That's doubly true if you haven't played any of the older games.

Just get the game and enjoy the gameplay. If MGS3 was any indication, it will kick some major ass.

::maroma:: · May 23, 2008, 02:15 PM

If what I've seen as far as teasers and trailers go for this game, the cut scenes might be good enough to spend 90 minutes watching. Then again, I enjoy cut scenes (my GTA4 stats will show that), so I am a little biased.

This game is going to be amazing. If I had a PS3 I would get it for sure. I've even entertained the thought of getting a PS3 just for this game.

Hawkeye_a · May 23, 2008, 02:21 PM

Jeeze, thats surely got to be a misprint or something. it might be 90 minutes total of all cut scenes. if not, it's no surprise that 50GBs wern't enough for this 'game'.

Ive never played a MGS game before. personally, i dont think i could keep my eyes open through a 90 minute cut scene. While i'm sure you can skip em... you'd probably want to watch em to get the story(which is big part of this 'game' i assume). And game cut-scenes got a long way to go in script and direction to be as captivating as a movie of equal length.

I assume theyre pre-rendered cut-scenes, which begs the question.... why couldn't he use the in-game engine for a real-time cut-scene, seeing as how the PS3 is so powerful and all.

There's an article on Kotako that says you will need 4.6GB of 'installation' space on the PS3 as well..... wtf ? when did games start having to be 'installed' on consoles ? And 4.6GBs that sounds like a whole game right there !!!!

Dakar the Fourth · May 23, 2008, 02:25 PM

Why would you assume they were pre-rendered? The PS2 versions used the in-game engine.

::maroma:: · May 23, 2008, 02:27 PM

The PS3 has been installing portions of games on it since day one if I recall correctly. It decreases load times and such. Its a good thing, assuming you have enough free space. In fact, its rumored that an upcoming update to the Xbox will include an option for installing portions of a game onto the hard drive. I welcome it personally. Anything to shorten load times.

Luca Rescigno · May 23, 2008, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

...'game'...

...you'd probably want to watch em to get the story(which is big part of this 'game' i assume)...

Actually, as I mentioned in my post, MGS has a very complex story that's really hard to fully understand. You can watch them or skip them at your leisure. No one's making you watch them - if you like the idea of a stealth/action game, MGS is the best there is, and if you loathe the idea of watching hours of cutscenes, you can skip them.

Also, why do you constantly refer to this game as a 'game' (with quotes)? It's not like it's a fake game or anything, it's real.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

I assume theyre pre-rendered cut-scenes...

I wonder where this is going...

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

, which begs the question.... why couldn't he use the in-game engine for a real-time cut-scene, seeing as how the PS3 is so powerful and all.

Wow, so you make an assumption based on a game from a series that you have never played and have obviously not done any research on it, and use that make-believe assumption to come up with a criticism of the game? Amazing.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

There's an article on Kotako that says you will need 4.6GB of 'installation' space on the PS3 as well..... wtf ? when did games start having to be 'installed' on consoles ? And 4.6GBs that sounds like a whole game right there !!!!

Again with the quotes. MGS4 doesn't require 'installation' space, it requires installation space. And a lot of PS3 games need this. The PS3's blu-ray drive is rather slow, so games perform installations to pre-cache game content and reduce loading times. Many PS3 games give you the option of installing it, so you can choose between installing a few GB of game data at the beginning or putting up with longer load times during the game. Sony can do this because all PS3s have hard drives. The Xbox 360, on the other hand, can't use the hard drive for caching game data, because some 360s don't have a hard drive. On the other hand, the 360's DVD drive is a lot faster.

I don't see what your problem is with this game... oops, I mean 'game.' If you've never played any games in the MGS series, you're missing out; they're lots of fun. But if you're using a few trivial "problems" with MGS4 to totally rip on the game and imply that it must suck, then you're just being a dick.

sek929 · May 23, 2008, 02:41 PM

He's just mad because it would take 10 memory cards for his Wii to match the installation space of one game.

MacosNerd · May 23, 2008, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

Jeeze, thats surely got to be a misprint or something. it might be 90 minutes total of all cut scenes. if not, it's no surprise that 50GBs wern't enough for this 'game'.

I don't think it was a typo because in another ARS article Kojima was complaining about the that blu-ray storage was not sufficient. Now we know why he was complaining. He not only was creating a game but a whole freakin movie to along with it.

Horsepoo!!! · May 23, 2008, 02:56 PM

So the game offers a huge movie as a bonus to go with it...which people can skip if they want...and people complain? I've seen it all.

The world is going down the shitter. Kids nowadays can't focus for more than a couple seconds. Forum posts that are longer than 2 lines are met with a "wall of text" or "TLDR" answer. Kids nowadays can't be bothered with story lines and cutscenes. I'm seriously concerned how these people will survive in the real world (well, until the real world is mostly comprised of these people at which point the world might just end).

edit: I must say that it's refreshing to see something other than "Grand Theft Auto IV" in the forum index under the Games forum section.

Luca Rescigno · May 23, 2008, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

So the game offers a huge movie as a bonus to go with it...which people can skip if they want...and people complain? I've seen it all.

As someone on another forum mentioned, you're basically getting a game and two movies for $60.

Dakar the Fourth · May 23, 2008, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

edit: I must say that it's refreshing to see something other than "Grand Theft Auto IV" in the forum index under the Games forum section.

Hey, stick it in your ear, buddy!

Hawkeye_a · 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Luca Rescigno

Wow, so you make an assumption based on a game from a series that you have never played and have obviously not done any research on it, and use that make-believe assumption to come up with a criticism of the game? Amazing.

That's why it's called an assumption, and not a 'fact'. And when i say 'i assume', it means that i am assuming(given the parameters), which does not imply that it is a fact.. but instead a 'guess'.

I'm sure the fans will eat it up, i just put down my opinion on 90 minute in-game cut scenes, whether or not they are skipable.

edit>>"parameters"
-most games with all resources fit on 8.5GB discs
-code, textures and 3D models would *probably* not take up 50GB
-the biggest 'resource' is usually full motion video
-1080p video would take up a lot of space
therefore ...'i assume' it's 1080p pre-rendered video that's filling up the disc.

Hawkeye_a · 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by sek929

He's just mad because it would take 10 memory cards for his Wii to match the installation space of one game.

Oh yeah, that really grinds my gears.

if i wanted a PC gaming experience(with all the installations and patches and upgades and options and HD resolutions and VRAM,etc,etc...), i'll just install bootcamp on my Mac and voila. (and it's a media center, a media server and a media editor).

sek929 · May 23, 2008, 04:20 PM

<sarcasm>Yeah those free bug patches are such a pain to download and install on my 360</sarcasm>

analogue SPRINKLES · May 23, 2008, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by Luca Rescigno

None of you guys must have ever played the previous games in the series.

I did, I think it was #2. I sorta liked the game but found it boring. Especially the cut scenes. If the next one is even slower and more boring it is a good reason to avoid.

Luca Rescigno · May 23, 2008, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

if i wanted a PC gaming experience(with all the installations and patches and upgades and options and HD resolutions and VRAM,etc,etc...), i'll just install bootcamp on my Mac and voila. (and it's a media center, a media server and a media editor).

So you're saying all those things are bad?

Installations: They make the game take less time to load. It's done automatically and you don't have to do anything other than wait.
Patches and upgrades: They're performed automatically, requiring no more than a button press to install. It's nice that game developers can make fixes to their games, though some people have raised the concern that it'll cause console developers to push games out early with the intention of fixing them later through patches.
Options: Most games don't have too many options in them beyond things like autosave and the control layout. I'm not sure what you quite mean by this anyway.
HD resolutions: Now this is just silly. Obviously these are a good thing, not a bad thing. Are you saying that HD resolutions are a downside to new consoles? That the Wii, for instance, is better for not having them, and that they're overly complicated and best relegated to hardcore PC gamers?
VRAM: This doesn't even make sense.

I take it from your tone that what you actually mean is that you don't think anything is important if the Wii doesn't have it. But I don't see what's so bad about MGS4. It's going to be an awesome game. Not every single game is (or should be) Wii Sports.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

I did, I think it was #2. I sorta liked the game but found it boring. Especially the cut scenes. If the next one is even slower and more boring it is a good reason to avoid.

2 was admittedly a low point in the series. For most of that game, you were controlling a pretty-boy named Raiden instead of the grizzled badass that is Solid Snake. But I can totally see how many people might find that sort of gameplay boring. There's a lot of sneaking around and not a whole lot of all-out combat. And it does sort of overload you with the cutscenes.

I haven't played 2, but 3 was pretty well written. The storyline was usually fairly interesting, though there were some parts that I just hated. Either way, the gameplay was really good. It helps that you were in control of Snake again (though in 3 you're controlling the "original" version of Snake - he was cloned several times in the future, but MGS3 takes place in the 60s).

::maroma:: · 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

So the game offers a huge movie as a bonus to go with it...which people can skip if they want...and people complain? I've seen it all.

The world is going down the shitter. Kids nowadays can't focus for more than a couple seconds. Forum posts that are longer than 2 lines are met with a "wall of text" or "TLDR" answer. Kids nowadays can't be bothered with story lines and cutscenes. I'm seriously concerned how these people will survive in the real world (well, until the real world is mostly comprised of these people at which point the world might just end).

I get the same feeling when I read all the comments about how horrible it is that there are long cutscenes in a very story driven video game.

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

edit: I must say that it's refreshing to see something other than "Grand Theft Auto IV" in the forum index under the Games forum section.

I say its refreshing to see anything at all in the games forum. Its been dead for so long.

Hawkeye_a · May 23, 2008, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Luca Rescigno

So you're saying all those things are bad?

Installations: They make the game take less time to load. It's done automatically and you don't have to do anything other than wait.
Patches and upgrades: They're performed automatically, requiring no more than a button press to install. It's nice that game developers can make fixes to their games, though some people have raised the concern that it'll cause console developers to push games out early with the intention of fixing them later through patches.
Options: Most games don't have too many options in them beyond things like autosave and the control layout. I'm not sure what you quite mean by this anyway.
HD resolutions: Now this is just silly. Obviously these are a good thing, not a bad thing. Are you saying that HD resolutions are a downside to new consoles? That the Wii, for instance, is better for not having them, and that they're overly complicated and best relegated to hardcore PC gamers?
VRAM: This doesn't even make sense.

I take it from your tone that what you actually mean is that you don't think anything is important if the Wii doesn't have it. But I don't see what's so bad about MGS4. It's going to be an awesome game. Not every single game is (or should be) Wii Sports.

For a dedicated gaming console yeah, i think those are bad things. Nintendo brings in the Wiimote, and the others bring in different SKUs, installation reqs., patches.... ugh. I gave up on PC gaming when i got my Mac, i gave up on Mac gaming when i got my console, both cause of the aforementioned reasons. If i wanted HD graphics...my Mac offers if for me (and it includes all the hassle and 'extra' features that the PS3 has).

i guess what im getting at is...
-installation: surprisingly we got along just fine for the past 20 years without requiring it, why add the inconvenience now ?
-patches: sure theyre a good thing when you write buggy software. but when i moved to the console, i wanted to leave all that behind, and so far Nintendo seems to be doing just fine(yes i know all software has bugs, but not all bugs are critical enough to require patches). and once again, we never needed em before...why bother now ?
-options: i was referring to different SKUs...w/ or w/o HDDs, backwards compatibility, etc.... meh...the old model of one platform for everyone was doing just fine, why ruin it ?
-HD: i never said thats a bad thing, i just said that HD graphics, media centers, media editors and media servers are all available on my Mac. if i wanted, i could get back to gaming on my mac and enjoy 'HD' graphics just fine, and yet the only games i find myself playing are the old adventure games and Starcraft....all in sub-SD resolutions.... go figure, and it works great.
-VRAM: speaking of specs cause that 'sarcastic' dude loves to use that as his trump card, even-though they barely matter in the big scheme of things.

So yeah, i would choose a simpler more elegant solution to gaming over unnecessaringly complicated gaming implementations. thats why i got back into console gaming to begin with. if all consoles some day end up being as complicated as the PS3, i'll happily mosey on back to gaming on my mac if i have to. (ie why bother getting more hardware? i guess there would have to be some really exceptional game for me to put up with it.)

But sure, i guess some people dont mind putting up with it and could consider it an advantage if they wanted to, and thats cool.<not sarcastic>

Hawkeye_a · May 23, 2008, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by ::maroma::

I say its refreshing to see anything at all in the games forum. Its been dead for so long.

Word. it was far more convenient in the lounge.

Anyway, thats ll i have to say here. lets just hope the cut scenes are interesting enough for the audience.

Cheers

Peter · May 24, 2008, 05:06 AM

MGS4 looks awesome. I'll be buying a PS3 for it.

Luca Rescigno · May 24, 2008, 07:43 PM

Apparently MGS4 will not have 90 minute cutscenes: N4G.com : Gamepro Kills MGS4 90 Minute Cut-scene Rumor

They'll still be long, but that's the same with all MGS games. They probably won't be appreciably longer than in previous games in the series.

Hawkeye_a · May 25, 2008, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by Luca Rescigno

Apparently MGS4 will not have 90 minute cutscenes: N4G.com : Gamepro Kills MGS4 90 Minute Cut-scene Rumor

They'll still be long, but that's the same with all MGS games. They probably won't be appreciably longer than in previous games in the series.

Good deal. 90-minute cut scenes would have been a really bad design decision imo.

Cheers

Peter · May 25, 2008, 11:09 AM

are you guys seriously going to turn ANOTHER thread into a console war?
**** off.

Horsepoo!!! · May 25, 2008, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by Peter

are you guys seriously going to turn ANOTHER thread into a console war?
**** off.

If there was no war, though, the kids would win. And the only console games that would exist are the mindless ones with zero story. MGS is one of the very few games that still has a solid engrossing story, and some people are now shitting all over this masterpiece. Nobody complained about the cutscenes back in 1998 when the first MGS came out...this disdain for stories and cutscenes is a recent one.

Just because there are a lot of people now that can't concentrate for more than a few seconds and can't be bothered with intricate stories, games that require some concentration and attention to the story should cease to exist. That is what some of us are fighting for.

I'm pro console-war.

NYK Ace · May 26, 2008, 08:33 AM

well, no 90 min cutscenes. But i did hear that MGS4 will have playable flashbacks of places like shadow moses etc which should be awesome.

im picking it up on launch day

ApeInTheShell · May 26, 2008, 03:47 PM

There have always been console wars just as their are always going to be platform wars. I own an XBOX 360 and Playstation 3 but not a Wii because the latter system does not have enough good games like Metal Gear Solid 4 to earn my purchase.

That aside, I cannot wait for the Metal Gear Solid The Movie. We all know that only Kurt Russell can be Snake!

Aegis · May 28, 2008, 06:17 PM

Certainly looks to be a great reason to buy a Ps3. I never got around to finishing 3 but 2 certainly had some lengthy scenes. Some felt close to 30 min. If it's a good story I'll sit as long as they like.

I don't see why anyone hates HD installs. I wish every day for consoles that I can plug in a 1Tb HD, put all on my games on it and never need to switch discs again.

::maroma:: · May 28, 2008, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by Aegis

I don't see why anyone hates HD installs. I wish every day for consoles that I can plug in a 1Tb HD, put all on my games on it and never need to switch discs again.

I agree. I would imagine there are a ton of copy protection issues that go along with that idea, but I'm sure they could work it out. But it would make life easier for the users, and that's what I'm concerned about.