[Rumor]

washingtonpost.com

Interesting study that was done. Though it is unsure of the long term effects, it is probably safe to assume that is isn't terribly great for us.

[Doofy]

What is in your drinking water?

I quote:

"Choicest Hops, Rice and Best Barley Malt"

[design219]

We're all going to die.

Guaranteed.

[osiris]

By drinking this water, will I be free of pain, infection, high cholesterol, asthma, epilepsy, mental illness and heart problems?

Or as design219 so eloquently put it, are we all going to die?

I thought this crap was filtered out at water treatment centers. I at least hope Brita does some good.

[sek929]

My water is filtered by old-growth swamps.

More specifically the town water for Marion is pumped out of aquifers in Rochester. Here in Rochester most people have wells, but our house is on the first 100ft. of the Marion water supply pipeline.

Freshest water I've ever had. Don't gimme that Poland Springs crap, tastes like plastic.

[Chuckit]

Eh, I wish there were happy pills in my water.

[real]

"Batman Returns"

[kelso]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I quote:

"Choicest Hops, Rice and Best Barley Malt"

[ghporter]

My drinking water comes from a fairly deep aquifer so for the moment I'm not getting lots of interesting pharmaceuticals in each sip. On the other hand, the article doesn't give specific quantities of any drug, and mentions both the drugs and their byproducts. The byproducts are probably far more plentiful than the drugs themselves, because people who take the medications process them and pass those byproducts into waste water systems, while the drugs themselves are most probably from dumping of unused amounts down the toilet.

I'm not minimizing the impact of what this study highlights. But I do want more information, and more details. For example, they said that Austin tested negative, and they get their water from the Highland Lakes as they drain through town in the form of the Lower Colorado river. There are many communities upstream of Austin, and Austin's treatment system is neither super-advanced nor particularly out of the ordinary in any other way. How do they avoid this problem? The state of Texas has a program to rate municipal water systems, and Austin's rates as "Superior", but I don't think that includes testing for drugs, and there are many cities that have similarly rated systems. What sort of findings do these other cities have?

[Atomic Rooster]

I wondered why we're all living longer.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

This is such old news, I saw a report on TV about this 5 years ago at least. I don't understand why people are just getting wind of it now.

[peeb]

Aquifers are not necessarily safe.

[nredman]

no wonder i have this erection for up to 4 hours

[andi*pandi]

I'd be worried about the antibiotics--they're getting ineffective as it is.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

I'd be worried about the antibiotics--they're getting ineffective as it is.

It's such low concentrations, though, it's not likely to make much difference, I think.

[Rev-O]

If the water treatment facilities were updated today to remove all the pharmaceuticals occurring at trace levels in drinking water, your price for water would go up a staggering amount. It's not like water treatment facilities can flip a 'remove drugs' switch and make water better. It requires a massive redesign for most facilities, and the cost of the redesign goes on to you. And you pay to have the drugs removed from your bath water and the water you use to water your lawn, not just the water you drink. It's all about cost analysis. Years ago it was the hermaphroditic fish and the hormone scare. Is it a real concern? Sure it is. Is there sufficient medical/scientific evidence to require all water treatment facilities to go with reverse osmosis systems and pass the cost on to the customer. Not really. At least not yet.

But the best thing about this is that it brings to light the fact that the further you live from the original water source the more times your drinking water has passed through a person. In the Denver metro area, which gets a chunk of it's water from mountain run off and the rest from aquifers, by the time you go from the far west side of town to the far east side of town the water has all been drank and pissed out at least once and then retreated. Doesn't bother me at all, but some folks seem really creeped out by the notion that they are drinking someone else's treated urine.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

I'd be worried about the antibiotics--they're getting ineffective as it is.

Overexposure of microbes to a variety of antibiotics is WHY they're becoming ineffective. That comes from farmers giving perfectly healthy livestock antibiotics because they seem to get bigger faster when they do, as well as "gimme an antibiotic for this cold" idiot patients and "sure, anything you want" physicians, and a lot of other things. It's a VERY BAD THING® too.

And I'm very interested in what sorts of "afterproducts" from people metabolizing their drugs actually get into the water system. Stuff that's identifiable but not active? Stuff that's still active? Stuff that can hurt us? More data is needed NOW.

[Atomic Rooster]

Hmmmm? I heard last week that Los Angeles has the best tasting drinking water in North Merika. That kinda stinks.

[brassplayersrock²]

^ actually I've heard that Boston does thank you very much

[ghporter]

That's very interesting. From a strict interpretation of the bounds of "North America", the best tasting water I ever encountered was in Panama City, Panama. It is on the north side of the Canal, which places it in "North America" rather than "South America", though that's probably a stretch of a definition.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Overexposure of microbes to a variety of antibiotics is WHY they're becoming ineffective.

I think andi pandi knows that. And antibiotics are one case where it's logical to think that small doses may be doing some slow damage over time, by putting some evolutionary pressure, so to speak, on germs.

My guess is that this isn't hurting people directly, any more than coke on money is getting people high. But it's clearly a symptom of our huge reliance on pharmaceuticals, and that should give people some pause. Do we really trust our health so much to this stuff that we're willing to take it in such massive quantities?

[sek929]

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster 

Hmmmm? I heard last week that Los Angeles has the best tasting drinking water in North Merika. That kinda stinks.

Seriously, come taste my tap water. There is a land preservation committee around here to ensure things like perfect water.

Drinking water from this swamp/watershed services over 500K people in the southeastern Mass area. It's only treated heavily in the bigger cities like New Bedford and Taunton. Fall River (Emeril's hometown) uses water from their own overpopulated and industrialized swamps and it tastes like garbage. Likewise, the Cape has horrible water due to ocean runoff and wells that end up tasting like rotten eggs (sulfur). Not really a fault of pollution, a well drilled near an estuary will not yield good tasting water.

I would love to bottle my tap and sell it to idiots willing to pay top dollar for water kept in a plastic bottle for months. Not that I blame people for their own sh!tty water, it's simply an effect of overpopulating an area.

The same way it's not safe to swim in NYC after a large rainstorm. Our filth has to end up somewhere.

[Eriamjh]

One article I read said that some drugs were found in "parts per trillion", but would not show any calculations to equate any amount of water consumed to a particular dosage of medication.

In other words, its trace amounts and they are just houding for a reaction.

I think it's not a good thing, but I have been pretty mellow lately.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

I think andi pandi knows that. And antibiotics are one case where it's logical to think that small doses may be doing some slow damage over time, by putting some evolutionary pressure, so to speak, on germs.

My guess is that this isn't hurting people directly, any more than coke on money is getting people high. But it's clearly a symptom of our huge reliance on pharmaceuticals, and that should give people some pause. Do we really trust our health so much to this stuff that we're willing to take it in such massive quantities?

I failed to point out that I was quoting for emphasis... You're right that we use WAY too many medications, and most of them are in our food chain, not our medicine cabinets. It's just dumb. And those germs are really, REALLY good at adapting; look at MSRA, VRE, and Resistant Tuberculosis for starters... Note the term "resistant" in each one's name. It's because we've given them just a little exposure to a lot of antibiotics, and they have adapted-"That which does not kill me makes me stronger" is not just an interesting philosophical idea.

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

One article I read said that some drugs were found in "parts per trillion", but would not show any calculations to equate any amount of water consumed to a particular dosage of medication.

In other words, its trace amounts and they are just houding for a reaction.

I think it's not a good thing, but I have been pretty mellow lately.

The problem is that most of these meds and their byproducts have a cumulative effect, so a few PPT over time winds up messing with our endocrine systems, etc. That's bad.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

And I'm very interested in what sorts of "afterproducts" from people metabolizing their drugs actually get into the water system. Stuff that's identifiable but not active? Stuff that's still active? Stuff that can hurt us? More data is needed NOW.

Feminization of fish is a widely seen occurrence downstream of municipal waste treatment plants.

Why? Because of all the synthetic 17 α-ethynylestradiol (EE2) peed out by women on birth control pills. There's been a growing number of studies on this in recent years. The Experimental Lakes Area in northern Ontario has seen at least a couple studies such as this one which concluded that

chronic exposure of fathead minnow (Pimephales promelas) to low concentrations (5–6 ng·L–1) of the potent 17-ethynylestradiol led to feminization of males through the production of vitellogenin mRNA and protein, impacts on gonadal development as evidenced by intersex in males and altered oogenesis in females, and, ultimately, a near extinction of this species from the lake. Our observations demonstrate that the concentrations of estrogens and their mimics observed in freshwaters can impact the sustainability of wild fish populations.

(3 years ago I did a biology course on pollution impacts that had some pretty nasty/amusing pictures from the results of this study.)


Looks like there's a downside to consequence-free sex after all!

greg

[ShortcutToMoncton]

But just to add to my post count...I spent the first 17 years of my life drinking spring water right out of the side of a mountain. My dad dammed off the spring, put some mesh over the pipe, and that was it! Best. water. ever.

Eventually about 11 houses on our road got hooked up to it. At one point the water stopped running so they thought they had a problem... when they got to the dam turns out a mink had somehow chewed through the mesh, stuck his head in, and got sucked in by the pressure. What with everyone turning on the taps and increasing the suction he was pretty wedged in there... they had to literally get a couple men hauling on his ass end before he "popped" out. Ahhh good times....

greg

[Railroader]

You triggered a great memory greg. There used to be an artesian well at a camping location we spent a lot of time at during my youth. My brother and I would spend hours playing in the stream and drinking the water. It was the best water I remember ever drinking. A couple years ago my wife and I were driving near it so we took a detour to stop and bottle some water. Alas, they capped the well and I think diverted it to the municipal supply.

Also, I used to live in a small town in Michigan and when people who would visit us would bring jugs of water to fill because the water was so good.

And yet another water story... another town in Michigan has such a high iron content that when I drink the water I am reminded of the taste of blood. In addition, the water is so cold coming out of the tap that it hurts to wash your hands using only water from the cold tap.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

You triggered a great memory greg. There used to be an artesian well at a camping location we spent a lot of time at during my youth. My brother and I would spend hours playing in the stream and drinking the water. It was the best water I remember ever drinking. A couple years ago my wife and I were driving near it so we took a detour to stop and bottle some water. Alas, they capped the well and I think diverted it to the municipal supply.

Also, I used to live in a small town in Michigan and when people who would visit us would bring jugs of water to fill because the water was so good.

And yet another water story... another town in Michigan has such a high iron content that when I drink the water I am reminded of the taste of blood. In addition, the water is so cold coming out of the tap that it hurts to wash your hands using only water from the cold tap.

My great aunt lived in Lansing and her water tasted so awful that I didn't like visiting, in spite of the wonderful stuff she baked all the time. Another great aunt (the other side of my mom's side of the family) lived in Lawton (western Michigan) and her well water tasted great-made operating the manual well worth while.

Flat Rock, where I grew up, had its own municipal water system for a very long time, and it was great tasting water. Eventually it wound up costing more to keep up the physical plant than they could bring in, so the city decided to connect to the Detroit water system. Not only has that omnipresent water tower gone away, but the water tastes funny now. My family doesn't even live there anymore, so I miss that part of Flat Rock as much as anything else.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

My great aunt lived in Lansing and her water tasted so awful that I didn't like visiting, in spite of the wonderful stuff she baked all the time. Another great aunt (the other side of my mom's side of the family) lived in Lawton (western Michigan) and her well water tasted great-made operating the manual well worth while.

Flat Rock, where I grew up, had its own municipal water system for a very long time, and it was great tasting water. Eventually it wound up costing more to keep up the physical plant than they could bring in, so the city decided to connect to the Detroit water system. Not only has that omnipresent water tower gone away, but the water tastes funny now. My family doesn't even live there anymore, so I miss that part of Flat Rock as much as anything else.

Lansing water is indeed nearly undrinkable. I think it is part of the Detroit water system. As is Flint. If I know I am going to spend any major time in those cities I bottle water at home and bring it with me. Or drink coke. Hell, even Pepsi is better than Lansing/Detroit/Flint water.