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Skypat · Oct 20, 2004, 03:49 PM

Hi,

I am in the market for a 20" display to replace my 17" studio display. Actually I have already decided to buy a Cinema display, but I am still hesitating between a 20" and a 23". But I think the difference in price is huge ... so I'll probably go for the 20.

When I read specs on the apple website, I see the width of the 20" is almost the same as the one of my 17. Since I cannot compare anymore in a store the 2 monitors, I would like to know if I would see a nice/big/dramatic/... improvement from my 17" to the 20".

Thanks in advance

VukOnCrack · Oct 20, 2004, 07:40 PM

Originally posted by Skypat:
Hi,

I am in the market for a 20" display to replace my 17" studio display. Actually I have already decided to buy a Cinema display, but I am still hesitating between a 20" and a 23". But I think the difference in price is huge ... so I'll probably go for the 20.

When I read specs on the apple website, I see the width of the 20" is almost the same as the one of my 17. Since I cannot compare anymore in a store the 2 monitors, I would like to know if I would see a nice/big/dramatic/... improvement from my 17" to the 20".

Thanks in advance

Yes, the 20" is great. I think it's a better deal than the 23" to boot if money is an issue.

Skypat · Oct 21, 2004, 08:29 AM

What about the differences between the 20" and the 17" ? Can I put 2 word pages next to each other for example ?

Weezer · Oct 21, 2004, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by Skypat:
What about the differences between the 20" and the 17" ? Can I put 2 word pages next to each other for example ?

Yes you can. Widescreen is amazing, I upgraded from a 17 to a 20 (well, I kept the 17 and now use both), and the 20 is so much better in picture quality and brightness.

Skypat · Oct 21, 2004, 10:53 AM

Hi Weezer

Could you post a screenshot of both your 20" and 17" to compare (or msg it to me ?).

Thank you in advance !

Weezer · Oct 21, 2004, 12:06 PM

Sure, I will when I get a chance

Skypat · Nov 12, 2004, 11:28 AM

In terms of pourcentage, does one know what increase there is between the 17 and the new 20 ?

Thanks

CatOne · Nov 12, 2004, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by Skypat:
In terms of pourcentage, does one know what increase there is between the 17 and the new 20 ?

Thanks

Ummm... it's 1680x1050 versus 1280x1024. You can do the math... that's probably like 35% more real estate ;-)

kugino · Nov 12, 2004, 01:58 PM

yes, the 20" is very nice. i had the 23" aluminum display for awhile...but it had the color problems so i returned it for the 20"...the 20" screen real estate is ample for my needs.

-Q- · Nov 12, 2004, 02:35 PM

I just picked up the 20" display and it really is an amazng screen. I have to keep the brightness down to about 1/4 otherwise it hurts my eyes. Colors are sharp and vibrant and the wide screen is great for any work involving pallettes.

im_noahselby · Nov 12, 2004, 04:30 PM

A user in the macrumors forum reported on this issue, I'm not sure if it is a problem for everyone, but thats what these discussion forums are here for:

Originally posted by Macrumors user:
I've got the same config. FWIW what I always do is plug the 20" in, close the pbook lid so it goes to sleep, unplug a USB cable and plug it back in to wake it up. Then, once it's awake and the desktop is on the 20" I open the pbook lid. That way the card is only driving the external monitor and I don't have to worry at all about heat building up on the pbook screen.

I have noticed that DVD playback on the 20" is really bad in full screen. The image tears like crazy. If I mouse up and make the menu bar show up at the top of the screen, play back is fine, but once it disappears, it goes back to tearing.

I asked what PowerBook revision he was using, as I was hoping the extra video ram in the latest 12" PB's would aid in this specific task, but to my great dissapointment the poster replied:

Originally posted by Macrumors user:
I've got the latest version 12" 1.33 64MB VRAM

Still having a problem with tearing.

So my question to all of you PowerBook 12" owners out there driving the Apple 20" or 23" display, is this: is this a known problem? If double the video ram doesn't seem to make a difference, would more standard ram make playback smooth again?

Thanks,
Noah

UnixMac · Nov 12, 2004, 11:48 PM

It's tough to realize the difference between a 20 and 23" when they aren't seen together... that is to say... you won't miss the 23" if you get the 20"

The main advantage is the HD quality, and the extra space if you are using a FCP or some other screen hog app.. but really, you can't go wrong for $1300 with the 20"

Great screen compared with just about all the other non-apple screens out there.

Jupeman · Nov 15, 2004, 06:34 PM

Fwiw, by one measure the 20" is the "best deal" of the three Apple monitors. Cost per pixel:

20": .00067 $/pixel
23": .00078 $/pixel
30": .00072 $/pixel

Many also think they can get "2 20" for less than the cost of the 30". Based on the above math that is true, but keep in mind the 30" is MORE THAN TWICE the size of the 20". It is simply amazing. I wish I could buy one.

johnzoidberg · Nov 15, 2004, 07:02 PM

Originally posted by im_noahselby:
A user in the macrumors forum reported on this issue, I'm not sure if it is a problem for everyone, but thats what these discussion forums are here for:

I asked what PowerBook revision he was using, as I was hoping the extra video ram in the latest 12" PB's would aid in this specific task, but to my great dissapointment the poster replied:

So my question to all of you PowerBook 12" owners out there driving the Apple 20" or 23" display, is this: is this a known problem? If double the video ram doesn't seem to make a difference, would more standard ram make playback smooth again?

Thanks,
Noah

I'm also wondering about that. I have a 12" PowerBook (Rev. B) and I'm in the market for the 20-inch ACD and one of the main reasons I'm getting one is that I can watch my movies on the larger screen. It would suck if the picture was choppy.

yoesh · Dec 16, 2004, 09:03 AM

another option, albeit a less aesthetically pleasing one, is to go to a non-apple 20" display.

dell has a new 20" widescreen model (2005fpw) that is beautiful and has the bonus of coming with the usual dell-coupons making them available for cheap (recently they were $799, but a $200/25% off coupon was available = 40" of widescreen real estate for $1200!!)

Goldfinger · Dec 24, 2004, 08:02 AM

Originally posted by Skypat:
In terms of pourcentage, does one know what increase there is between the 17 and the new 20 ?

Thanks

"Percentage" pas "pourcentage"

t500 · Dec 24, 2004, 06:29 PM

Yeah I got the Dell 20.1 widescreen. Great monitor (Ungly stand). The multiple inputs rock. I can have my G5, Powerbook and Xbox all hooked up. Again not as pretty as Apple's but for a little over $500 I'll do ugly...

Dr.Michael · Dec 25, 2004, 05:06 AM

Originally posted by johnzoidberg:
I'm also wondering about that. I have a 12" PowerBook (Rev. B) and I'm in the market for the 20-inch ACD and one of the main reasons I'm getting one is that I can watch my movies on the larger screen. It would suck if the picture was choppy.

I used a 20 inch cinema display with my 12 inch rev b powerbook. Its correct: DVDs look bad. You can see the single image pixels on the screen. To watch DVDs a CRT is better (a friend has a 24 inch CRT. DVD quality is great).

beverson · Feb 5, 2005, 03:42 AM

Originally posted by Dr.Michael:
I used a 20 inch cinema display with my 12 inch rev b powerbook. Its correct: DVDs look bad. You can see the single image pixels on the screen. To watch DVDs a CRT is better (a friend has a 24 inch CRT. DVD quality is great).

Ouch. This is a disappointment. I was seriously all ready to plunk down the plastic on a new 12" PowerBook and a 20" Cinema Display. I know the video card in the 12" is a bit less than ideal, but is it really that bad? Are they different cards in the just-released PowerBooks that might work better? Or do you have similar problems watching DVDs on any LCD display, regardless of what Mac is driving it?

The 17" iMac that I'm going to replace with this new setup has been great for me for watching movies. If I'm sitting right up at the computer and DVD Player is full-screen, I can definitely see the artifacts and things. But when I'm sitting back on my bed, the picture looks at least as good, probably better, than on my TV.

Originally posted by Macrumors user:
I have noticed that DVD playback on the 20" is really bad in full screen. The image tears like crazy. If I mouse up and make the menu bar show up at the top of the screen, play back is fine, but once it disappears, it goes back to tearing.

What exactly is meant by "tearing?"

gee308 · Feb 6, 2005, 12:14 AM

What did you go with?
I am in the exact same situation. I really want to get the 23", but the price difference is huge.

Originally posted by Skypat:
Hi,

I am in the market for a 20" display to replace my 17" studio display. Actually I have already decided to buy a Cinema display, but I am still hesitating between a 20" and a 23". But I think the difference in price is huge ... so I'll probably go for the 20.

When I read specs on the apple website, I see the width of the 20" is almost the same as the one of my 17. Since I cannot compare anymore in a store the 2 monitors, I would like to know if I would see a nice/big/dramatic/... improvement from my 17" to the 20".

Thanks in advance

beverson · Feb 6, 2005, 12:36 AM

I went to the Apple Store Cherry Creek today to check out the 20" Cinema Display and a 12" PowerBook. They had the new PowerBooks, but no 12-inchers with the 100 GB hard drive (only BTO), otherwise I would have walked out with it today. Instead I ordered everything online when I got home.

I brought my copy of the original Star Wars on DVD to try out. Playing in the new 12" PowerBook full screen on the connected 20" Cinema Display, the DVD playback looked great. I'm still not sure what was meant in previous posts by "tearing," but it definitely looked good enough for me. No choppiness at all, and while you can see artifacts and a bit of pixelation up close, this is in my opinion no different from watching a DVD up close on any LCD screen I've seen -- that includes my parents' new LCD HDTV. Any time you have a display that uses a higher resolution than the source, you are going to see some of this. But in my experience, if I have a DVD full-screen I'm sitting back far enough so that the compression artifacts and individual pixels are not visible. And if I'm sitting close enough to see these things, and not specifically looking for them but instead watching the video, I have to shrink it so that it's a comfortable viewing size anyway, again effectively eliminating them. For instance, on my 12" iBook (that I'll soon be selling), whenever I watch DVDs on a plane, I don't have the video set to "full screen." I'll watch it full screen (surrounded by black as opposed to the desktop), but at a smaller size because otherwise I'm a bit too close and it's a bit uncomfortable to watch.

Anyway, I'm not sure if this is a result of new or different video cards in the new 12" PowerBooks (are they different?), or if there was some other issue at work (not enough system RAM?), but the 12" PowerBook seems very capable of driving the 20" Cinema Display. Expos�-ing of windows was smooth, Keynote transitions looked good, and DVD playback at full screen looked great. I hadn't ever quite noticed just how good these Cinema Displays are � the viewing angle from all directions is VERY wide, much better than the PowerBook's screen, or the screen on my 17" iMac (which I'll also be selling soon). That being said, the PowerBook's screen itself looked pretty good � better than older 12" PowerBooks I've seen (my dad and an old roommate of mine both have a rev. A or B). The sales guy also said the same. And not that I've ever had a hard sell at an Apple retail store, but he knew right away that I wouldn't be buying there today (my first question was about the 100 GB drive), so he wasn't just blowing smoke up my ass by saying that.

beverson · Feb 6, 2005, 12:38 AM

Originally posted by gee308:
What did you go with?
I am in the exact same situation. I really want to get the 23", but the price difference is huge.

After again seeing both the 20" and 23" Cinema Displays side by side today, I advocate the 20". Unless you need (or "need") an HD display. Steve did say this is the year of HD, and the sales guy I talked to today pretty much said that's the reason for the large price difference from 20" to 23", and it's possible in 6 months some really cool HD thing will come out and I'll wish I had the 23". But really, I think the 20" is fantastic and a great deal.

Simon · Feb 6, 2005, 06:49 AM

Originally posted by beverson:
Anyway, I'm not sure if this is a result of new or different video cards in the new 12" PowerBooks (are they different?), or if there was some other issue at work (not enough system RAM?), but the 12" PowerBook seems very capable of driving the 20" Cinema Display. Expos�-ing of windows was smooth, Keynote transitions looked good, and DVD playback at full screen looked great. I hadn't ever quite noticed just how good these Cinema Displays are � the viewing angle from all directions is VERY wide, much better than the PowerBook's screen, or the screen on my 17" iMac (which I'll also be selling soon).

I'd like to second that.

I have a rev B 1 GHz 12" PowerBook and a 20" ACD that I use at home in closed-lid mode. I love the setup. The ACD has excellent quality (brightness, color, angle) and the PowerBook displays everything to the external screen fine including absolutely smooth Expos� (with just 32 MB VRAM and up to two dozen windows) and DVD playback. Of course you get some pixelation because the DVD has less resolution information than the ACD can display, but at comfortable watching distance I didn't see any artifacts. What is 'tearing' btw?

IMHO, the only downside of this setup is the fan noise when the 12" is connected to an external display. As I understand this could have become better with rev D, but I'm not really sure about it. I hope to discuss these issues in this thread here.

Jupeman · 08:45 AM

What is 'tearing' btw?

Tearing: Tearing occurs when a surface is blit before it has been completed. This causes objects or parts of objects to be visible on the screen in multiple places at once.

So what is "blit"?

Blit: A blit is a memory copy operation from a surface to the video card.

So what is a "surface"?

Surface: A place in memory to draw the screen before rendering on the screen ("blitting").

Definitions from EastCoast Games