[Bigfoot]

It's too big an item to do a soft rollout this close to MW. Next week would be too close to Christmas for fulfillment.

I can see Steve breaking out the charts & graphs, talking about the latest greatest MacPro for at least a half hour... along with whatever software updates they bring to MW.

Besides, after last week's disappointment, I spent my MP allocation (again) on other toys. They have to wait until MW for the MP release because thats when I'll be ready again.

[awcopus]

Incredibly, my powermac dual 1.42 just stopped working yesterday. It turned off all on its own, then attempts to turn it back on produced the startup chime, 15 to 20 seconds of hds spinning up, and then another random power down.

Call me crazy, but I suspect the power supply needs replacing.

Apple was supposed to release a new Mac Pro for me to replace this fella with a long time ago.

Meanwhile, my dual 2.5 G5 is still performing solidly. Plenty of time for that to change between now and when the new Mac Pros ship in late Winter, early Spring 2008.

***********

C'mon, Apple! Spin off the computer division so they're free to focus on satisfying computer users while you perfect the next belt-buckle iPod or whatever the hell it is you think rich kids want in the next minute.

[sinosleep]

This wait is driving me insane! I'm sure a lot of you have been waiting a lot longer than me but this will be my first mac purchase and I've been waiting on these things since around September. It's going to be hard to stop myself from just going with a pc if I don't hear something by January.

[eggman]

Originally Posted by sinosleep 

It's going to be hard to stop myself from just going with a pc if I don't hear something by January.

Step back from the ledge - you have so much to live for...

[tadd]

Appleinsider says there is a rumor of Jan 15th keynote will include an announcement of the new Mac pro.
That's a long time to wait.
The details in the rumor are exactly as luke55 specified.
They point to a MacBidouille rumor page. The page is in French.
MacBidouille.com - News du 2007-12-05

[musicforme]

Originally Posted by sinosleep 

This wait is driving me insane! I'm sure a lot of you have been waiting a lot longer than me but this will be my first mac purchase and I've been waiting on these things since around September. It's going to be hard to stop myself from just going with a pc if I don't hear something by January.

This will be my first Mac too. I've been waiting since May! I got my ADC Student status verified a couple days ago, so I'm all set for them to be released!

My XP desktop is 4.5 years old and ready to be retired. It is a HP 2.4 ghz hyper-threaded P4 workstation with 512 meg of ram. I imagine by now the registry looks like swiss cheese with all the stuff that's been installed and un-installed on it.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by tadd 

Appleinsider says there is a rumor of Jan 15th keynote will include an announcement of the new Mac pro.
That's a long time to wait.
The details in the rumor are exactly as luke55 specified.
They point to a MacBidouille rumor page. The page is in French.
MacBidouille.com - News du 2007-12-05

The moment that rumor mentioned Itaniums I discredited it.

[eggman]

Originally Posted by tadd 

The details in the rumor are exactly as luke55 specified.
They point to a MacBidouille rumor page. The page is in French.

The reason the details in the rumor are exactly as luke55 specified is because they are both citing exactly the same source. The language of luke55's post is pulled from HardMac: the MacBidouille In English page.

Whether the rumor is true or not, the similarity of accounts isn't corroboration - it's repetition.

[Javizun]

The real question is how long it will last.

There are countless reports of powermac g4 and g5's dying within 2-3 years.
if you ask me thats not good at all. But people overlook this and anticipate an new computer
to replace instead of questioning why their computer died in such a short time.

It is amazing the amount of people that will just throw away money into new hardware just because...
i mean for one i would be so pissed if i paid 4k for a computer and POOF one day just dies..
It would certainly make me questuin apples quality.

I have a dell thats 7 years old use it as a file dump..and it is still going-IM ABLE TO BROWSE AND CHECK EMAIL ETC..AMAZING.

[Bigfoot]

My dual 1.25 is 5+ years old? Best .82¢ a day I ever spent (thats if it craps out today of course).

[tadd]

Originally Posted by Javizun 

The real question is how long it will last.

I have a dell thats 7 years old use it as a file dump..and it is still going-IM ABLE TO BROWSE AND CHECK EMAIL ETC..AMAZING.

nice. perhaps some of the people on this thread are here because we have had good luck with our Apple computers. I am amazed that YOU are here.
My dual 533Mhz G4, dual 1Ghz G4 and dual 2Ghz G5 are all still working fine. So, come to think of it, is my dual 733Mhz dell P3, though unlike the Dell, the OS on the Apple computers were upgradable for 7 years. The dual 533 G4 just fell out of that cycle this time around. My Dell's graphics card is not supported in MSWindows2000, much less MSWindowsXP. I have no use for Dell. They won't support my computer if it has any alternative hardware or software. They ask me to revert it back to the OS and hardware it came with before continuing, or to call Microsoft. Useless. Apple has been much nicer to me.
Tadd

[ninahagen]

Javizun, so why are you into macs and mac forums? You are in the extreme minority. That is your right, but why nnot look at the positives? How much did your current mac cost? After you divide by the number of days you have had it, how much do you come up with? Not much I would guess. So why complain?

[misterdna]

Originally Posted by Javizun 

The real question is how long it will last.

There are countless reports of powermac g4 and g5's dying within 2-3 years.
if you ask me thats not good at all. But people overlook this and anticipate an new computer
to replace instead of questioning why their computer died in such a short time.

I'm a graphic artist who's been using Mac's since the IIci, and in all honesty, I can't think of one Mac desktop model that has ever died on me from old age (I had a G5 spring a leak, die, and get replaced under warranty, and I've had a few drives die). Typically, I get a new desktop every couple of years, and keep my previous two machines running. Eventually, I stop using the oldest ones when I buy another machine because 3 desktops is plenty to keep running. But that's usually a 6 or 7-year-old machine, and it still works fine when I stop using it. I don't know if I'm just lucky, but I have a very different opinion on the lifespan of Macs.

Oh, and I'm eagerly awaiting a new MacPro, at which point I'll decommission my fully functional, 7-year-old G4 500 DP.

[~bash $]

Well in my experience (and those around me), more older pro macs are going than not going. Whether I like it or not -- and I don't, cause running a G4 these days would be something short of excruciating for people who need really high performance. I think we (or at least our funding agencies!) pay for high performance that we don't expect to remain in that capacity for a terribly long time. This is not to say that these computers shouldn't last long, but in a demanding environment, their usefulness for me is only limited to a few years.

Having said that, nearly any computer from at least 2000 will be able to do such mundane tasks as web browsing and email -- heck, we have 10-12 year old computers doing just fine there. It's just not that big of a deal.

[bballe336]

Originally Posted by Javizun 

The real question is how long it will last.

There are countless reports of powermac g4 and g5's dying within 2-3 years.
if you ask me thats not good at all. But people overlook this and anticipate an new computer
to replace instead of questioning why their computer died in such a short time.

It is amazing the amount of people that will just throw away money into new hardware just because...
i mean for one i would be so pissed if i paid 4k for a computer and POOF one day just dies..
It would certainly make me questuin apples quality.

I have a dell thats 7 years old use it as a file dump..and it is still going-IM ABLE TO BROWSE AND CHECK EMAIL ETC..AMAZING.

Well I guess my machine doesn't apply to your post since you didn't mention G3's. But anyways my old G3 with a G4 processor upgrade ran for about 10 years with no hardware problems. It was possibly my favorite computer I've ever owned, regardless of how slow it was, it just worked.

I think the quality of apple machines is much higher than the average mass manufactured PC. Considering I work on macs and PC's every day I'd have to say that most PC's are very poorly designed and not as robust as apple's machines. Especially laptops, I haven't picked up a PC laptop yet that feels sturdy to me. They all have wiggly keyboards, or screens that don't close solidly, or batteries that don't fit snuggly in the case, or any host of other little issues. But every apple laptop I have picked up has been rock solid.

Thats just my 2 cents.

[eggman]

I just want to clarify - I want one of the new MacPros not because my dual G5 is failing - although an ATI after-market card I added did recently fail... and so did an additional hard drive (neither were original parts). I just want to take advantage of better performance to optimize my workflow and be more productive with software that increasingly utilizes the options made possible by more powerful processors and greater memory.

The fact that Macs have a much more vigorous resale market (and maintain value longer) would tend to stick a stake through the heart of the notion that Macs fail more - or earlier - than PCs.

I think the more relevant issue is that Mac users, the Mac OS - and Mac applications - especially Apple's (with the notable exception of games) are more likely to aggressively push the envelope in terms of hardware.

[luke55]

According to different sources, Intel announced to its clients that a bug is affecting Penryn Quad Core CPUs. Currently, it remains unclear if Xeon Penryn will also be affected or only the Quad Core Extreme desktop-dedicated CPU.
The bug is reported to create a problem with the FSB under certain circumstances, and with specific chipset. The problem can not be solved unless than changing the processor design, and producing new batches.
If Xeon Penryn is also affected, it could even further delay the launch of the future revision of Mac Pro (at least by one month).

[awcopus]

Originally Posted by luke55 

According to different sources, Intel announced to its clients that a bug is affecting Penryn Quad Core CPUs. Currently, it remains unclear if Xeon Penryn will also be affected or only the Quad Core Extreme desktop-dedicated CPU.
The bug is reported to create a problem with the FSB under certain circumstances, and with specific chipset. The problem can not be solved unless than changing the processor design, and producing new batches.
If Xeon Penryn is also affected, it could even further delay the launch of the future revision of Mac Pro (at least by one month).

Just adds to the fun. Like the scenes in Star Wars where Han Solo is about to make the jump to light speed but the engine just isn't there for him. Hilarity ensues.

Just imagine being the two guys at Apple who actually work on the Mac Pro line. Do they even get invited to the parties that the iPod engineers get invited to? I picture two really old, really eccentric, semi-retired part time employees who are baffled by the young iPod engineers with their fancy new cars, always flirting with the secretaries, skateboarding through the halls at Apple and jumping over piles of stock options.

"Waddya think? Time ter roll out anudder PowerMac, Bert."
"They're callin'em Mac Pros now, Frank."
"Shut up, Bert. Just shut up and get me the new chips."
"The new chips are faster but they don't work so good."
"Fick it! Let's just put 20 Moto chips in there."
"Whatever you want, Frank. Whatever you want."

[mduell]

Originally Posted by tadd 

So, come to think of it, is my dual 733Mhz dell P3, though unlike the Dell, the OS on the Apple computers were upgradable for 7 years. My Dell's graphics card is not supported in MSWindows2000, much less MSWindowsXP. I have no use for Dell. They won't support my computer if it has any alternative hardware or software. They ask me to revert it back to the OS and hardware it came with before continuing, or to call Microsoft. Useless.

Nice red herring, since the warranty on your Dell ran out what, 4 years ago? There are lots of newer video cards available for the AGP slot in your Dell.

Originally Posted by luke55 

According to different sources, Intel announced to its clients that a bug is affecting Penryn Quad Core CPUs. Currently, it remains unclear if Xeon Penryn will also be affected or only the Quad Core Extreme desktop-dedicated CPU.
The bug is reported to create a problem with the FSB under certain circumstances, and with specific chipset. The problem can not be solved unless than changing the processor design, and producing new batches.
If Xeon Penryn is also affected, it could even further delay the launch of the future revision of Mac Pro (at least by one month).

If the problem is chipset specific, then may not be a problem. The Xeons use different chipsets than the Core 2 desktop chips.

[tadd]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Nice red herring, since the warranty on your Dell ran out what, 4 years ago? There are lots of newer video cards available for the AGP slot in your Dell..

mduel, I have had support needs with Dell computer since shortly after they came into existence. I have been working professionally with computers and coding for computers since the IBM370, PDP11, Prime 450, and HP3000 were modern industrial machines and was employed creating one of the first 24 bit per pixel graphics subsystems(Raster Technologies - 1981). Correct me if I'm wrong but 1. Dell supplies Dell custom versions (specifically the PCI IDs are not the same as the 'branded' 3rd party card) of any 3rd party devices used within their machines whenever they can and 2. Dell does not provide driver support for any such devices for OS upgrades that come out AFTER the machine is discontinued. If this is true (and it has been for me, so far) then if you buy a computer from Dell, and later a new OS comes out, the only way for you to upgrade to that new OS is to take the device driver upgrade process into your own hands and to swap out for new any card that Dell has managed to Dell-stamp, including graphics cards, ethernet adapters, and storage adapters. Some companies (Prime, DEC, IBM, Sun, SGI, Apple, HP until recently) support their hardware for later OS releases. Dell, Gateway et al created a new low for computerdom with the Clone market. They compete against each other for the lowest price to market. They do not compete with the likes of Sun and Apple for quality, support, product lifetime, etc. We can easily see who has thrown themselves into the ring competing for that low end dollar.
I am forced to operate with tools from the low end world but I do not like it. I have a hard time understanding anybody who DOES like it. At best it comes under the category of an inevitable evil. I would think that Dell would consider the notion of competing with BMW and Lexus instead of trying desperately to undercut Yugo and AMC. Perhaps Dell would come out with a high end brand as Apple continues to dent their market. Maybe you can tell me they already have?
Tadd

[cube-dude]

Originally Posted by goMac 

The Macrumors forums have two sources both pointing to December 11th for a release date ... They have someone who supposedly has a friend in retail who said that new Mac Pros are coming on the 11th. Normally I would ignore that, but they also separately found some tech podcast where one of the hosts or something took a tour of Apple but said she can't talk about what she saw until the 11th. So something is certainly coming the 11th if the podcast is to be believed (even if it's not a Mac Pro). Two separate rumors giving the same date certainly is a good sign.

Ah, tomorrow ... a.k.a our last shot at a shiny, new, pre-Macworld Mac Pro.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by cube-dude 

Ah, tomorrow ... a.k.a our last shot at a shiny, new, pre-Macworld Mac Pro.

I'm already preparing myself to prepare myself for new Mac Pros coming next Tuesday.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by tadd 

Correct me if I'm wrong but 1. Dell supplies Dell custom versions (specifically the PCI IDs are not the same as the 'branded' 3rd party card) of any 3rd party devices used within their machines whenever they can and 2. Dell does not provide driver support for any such devices for OS upgrades that come out AFTER the machine is discontinued. If this is true (and it has been for me, so far) then if you buy a computer from Dell, and later a new OS comes out, the only way for you to upgrade to that new OS is to take the device driver upgrade process into your own hands and to swap out for new any card that Dell has managed to Dell-stamp, including graphics cards, ethernet adapters, and storage adapters.

There are a few Dell branded items, particularly for their servers (PERC and DRAC come to mind), that need drivers from Dell, but the most of the parts are just generic hardware with generic PCI IDs or they work with the generic manufacturers drivers without hackery (that's probably a run on sentence, huh). Barring major architectural changes (like the new WDDM graphics driver model for Vista), older drivers (NT4/2k) work just fine for newer OSs (2k/XP) even if not explicitly advertised as such; also the newer OSs often include enough generic drivers that manufacturer supplied drivers aren't needed at all. I bought a Dell with XP that was discontinued before Vista had a release date, but I could run the Vista betas just fine with all my hardware supported (most of it without installing any drivers from Dell).

Originally Posted by tadd 

I would think that Dell would consider the notion of competing with BMW and Lexus instead of trying desperately to undercut Yugo and AMC. Perhaps Dell would come out with a high end brand as Apple continues to dent their market. Maybe you can tell me they already have?

Dell competes in the premium market with the Alienware brand they bought a few years ago. Apple isn't putting any dent in Dell's market, although HPQ is.

[musicforme]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I'm already preparing myself to prepare myself for new Mac Pros coming next Tuesday.

You got a chuckle out of me about your preparation.

[ssegaric]

This post at 10:20 EST Tuesday December 11th, 2007.

09:01 EST - disappointment
Waiting for 09:01 PST with enthusiastic abandon!

Update at 1:26 PST - disappointment

Waiting for MacWorld with Enthusiastic abandon!!

[Simon]

Originally Posted by goMac 

The Macrumors forums have two sources both pointing to December 11th for a release date.

Somebody pass them the ketchup!

[eggman]

Spock: "Captain, Mr Jobs hasn't given us a date, so I will make a guess. I calculate the probability of new MacPros being announced today at approximately 4.2145%."

Kirk: "A guess? You, Spock? That's extraordinary."

Spock: "I made the best guess I could. I accounted for the fact that Apple shows early indications of having an excellent sales quarter and therefore wouldn't need MacPro sales to satisfy the projections of investment analysts. Furthermore, Apple has been extremely reticent to introduce products in December at the height of the holiday retail season. Finally, it is merely one month before a large conclave of Apple cultists gather, providing their spiritual leader an opportunity to engage his reality distortion field in order to propel the perception of such new systems into warp drive."

Kirk: "As usual, even in the absence of data, your... use... of... logic... is... an-inspiration-to-us-all."

Spock: "I also took into account...."

Bones: "Shut up, you green-blooded 45 nanometer dual quad-core son of an 8-bit register set."

Spock: [To Kirk] "I think Dr. McCoy took this rather well."

[SierraDragon]

Nice.

Scotty, beam me up.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Somebody pass them the ketchup!

Originally Posted by goMac 

I'm already preparing myself to prepare myself for new Mac Pros coming next Tuesday.

Don't say I didn't warn you.

[Simon]

When actually was the last time Apple used MWSF to launch new pro Macs? I can't remember they ever did.

Unless Apple decides to not introduce the Penryn MBP at MWSF, it's gonna be a crowded schedule. OTOH that would also indicate no iPhone/iPod stuff which I personally would find quite OK.

[goMac]

The new Mac Pros are coming next Tuesday. I have hard proof.

My cousin was at the Apple Store the other day, buying an iPod case from InCase. When he went to the shelf to pick out his case, they were completely out of stock of some of the InCase modals.

What does this mean? It means that Apple is clearing shelf space for new Mac Pros! Why haven't the Mac Pros arrived so far? The obvious answer is that Apple is working on incorporating Flux Capacitor technology into the Mac Pros. This will give Time Machine the literal ability to go back into time and retrieve your files. Apple simply needs some more time to add support for this new feature into 10.5.2.

You'll all see. New Mac Pros. Next Tuesday.

[MarkLT1]

Originally Posted by goMac 

...This will give Time Machine the literal ability to go back into time and retrieve your files.

Ahh, but you forget about the "one more thing." It can also go into the future, and retrieve the files before you even create them!

[jmc303]

Thats going to be great for those tricky deadlines!

Customer: "We'd like you to.."
Me:" Here you go, that'll be ***** pounds/dollars please!"

[iSavant]

we're gonna need a 2.1 jigawatt power supply

[iSavant]

Whoever gets this job will have to figure out how to integrate that power supply into the tower.

link to Apple.com/Jobs

Apple - Job Opportunities - Job description

[yikes600]

My main machine is a 7 year old "Digital Audio" G4 running 24/7 and I've never had any sort of failures you guys speak of. I've also got a G4 "Yikes" (same as B&W G3) from 1999 that I passed off to my mom and is used every day. Leopard on the DA, Tiger on the Yikes.

Anyway, I've been waiting for the damn Mac Pro update since July. I don't care about subnotebooks or iMac updates where's the love for the pro desktop? I've got my credit card in hand... just... waiting...

[Bwa]

Same here. I've been waiting since May or so. I was tempted to get the 8-core but thought I'd just wait for new 4 cores--surely they'd be out by August? In hindsight, I should have just bought the 4 core tower then.

My desktop right now is a dual-core PC tower that's almost two years old (it's a Pentium D). 3 GB of RAM, 3.2 GHz processor. Sounds fast, but my new MacBook Pro is a heck of a lot faster than the tower. Too bad I can't plug in 4 monitors to the MacBook Pro. :-(

[awcopus]

So, as stated above, I have lost a powerMac and need to purchase a replacement. I am finding myself physically incapable of pushing the button on a current Mac Pro, especially at current prices.

My wife, a graphic designer and the user of the PowerMac that pooped out, is similarly unimpressed by Apple's current offerings. So she's just staying late at work until Apple presents us with a compelling Mac Pro offering. We'll see how long that lasts. I believe a Mac Mini as a temporary solution may be called for, but with a Mac Pro release <I can't believe I'm actually typing the word> "imminent" <cue sarcastic eye-rolling, acute hypertension, heroin use>, spending any money on a temporary solution is probably stupid.

I told her we'd be replacing her wind-tunnel PowerMac many, many months ago (back when Leopard was going to be released in the Spring and I wanted to get a new Mac Pro with it preinstalled). I feel like a boob.

[cube-dude]

The store is down. Just when I was convinced there would be nothing new before MWSF, there goes Apple filling my head with hopes of Mac Pro holiday goodness!

[Leonard]

Originally Posted by Simon 

When actually was the last time Apple used MWSF to launch new pro Macs? I can't remember they ever did.

Actually, I think it's been awhile since they announced Pro Macs at MWSF, if ever. They have announced Pro Macs in 2003 and 2002 at the end of January, but that wasn't at MWSF, that was 2-3 weeks after MWSF.

[goMac]

Ok, so I know I said the new Mac Pros would come out today, but I have it on good authority that the reason that they won't is because Steve Jobs didn't like the placement of the Firewire ports in the back (they were too square apparently). So instead, Apple will be releasing the new Mac Pro next Tuesday.

[Simon]

What a great Christmas present.

[sinosleep]

I caved. I'm tired of waiting so I just went ahead and ordered the parts to build myself a vista gaming rig and a macbook pro. I was going to use OSX mostly for all things non-gaming any way running vista with bootcamp so this is pretty close to what I was going for any way.

[musicforme]

I thought I'd share something funny my wife asked me last night.

Earlier in the thread I mentioned I went ahead and signed up for the Student Apple Developer Connection. I received the first box yesterday that has the tools and t-shirt in it.

My wife knows that I'm really looking forward to getting the Pro and asked me the following question, "Where will getting the Mac rank compared to getting married and the birth of our daughter"? I told her it would be a close 3rd or 4th place.

We both chuckled about it and can't wait to get off Windows.

[mduell]

So what will the new Mac Pro be? My guess:

Dual quad 2.66Ghz Xeon, upgrade to 3Ghz or downgrade to 2.33Ghz*
2x1GB 800Mhz DDR2 FB-DIMM, upgradeable to 4x1GB, 4x2/8x1GB, 4x4/8x2GB, 8x4GB and capable of 8x8GB (if you can find it)
500GB SATA HDD, 750GB and 1TB SATA options, 150GB or 300GB 15k SAS options (requires RAID card)
HD2400XT 128MB base, 8800 GTS 512 and FX4600 or FX5500 options
$2499

* You might expect 2.83 base and 2.5Ghz downgrade based on the current CPU choices, but I think Apple will use the opportunity to pad their margins.

[silver]

@mduell nice hypothetical specs. I definitely like the SAS option. I was planning on sticking 1 SAS drive in the second SuperDrive slot anyway then loading the 4 HD slots with 750GB each.

Also at that base price I better get rid of my G5 soon, as there resell value may now start to plummet.

Hopefully we'll all know soon what Apple has in store for us power hungry folks.


Cheers

[goMac]

Originally Posted by tadd 

mduel, I have had support needs with Dell computer since shortly after they came into existence. I have been working professionally with computers and coding for computers since the IBM370, PDP11, Prime 450, and HP3000 were modern industrial machines and was employed creating one of the first 24 bit per pixel graphics subsystems(Raster Technologies - 1981). Correct me if I'm wrong but 1. Dell supplies Dell custom versions (specifically the PCI IDs are not the same as the 'branded' 3rd party card) of any 3rd party devices used within their machines whenever they can and 2. Dell does not provide driver support for any such devices for OS upgrades that come out AFTER the machine is discontinued. If this is true (and it has been for me, so far) then if you buy a computer from Dell, and later a new OS comes out, the only way for you to upgrade to that new OS is to take the device driver upgrade process into your own hands and to swap out for new any card that Dell has managed to Dell-stamp, including graphics cards, ethernet adapters, and storage adapters.

This is not true. I used a Dell GeForce3 Ti in a lower end Pentium 3 for the longest time, using the stock NVidia and Linux drivers. The Dell in question was a friends, and he replaced the GeForce 3 with a Radeon 9800 that worked just fine.

[Goddard11]

Any more rumors? I like rumors...

Are there any other rumor dates before MW?

[Richard Richard]

oh dear...

Intel to delay launch of three 45nm quad-core CPUs on poor AMD performance

[Goddard11]

Originally Posted by Richard Richard 

oh dear...

Intel to delay launch of three 45nm quad-core CPUs on poor AMD performance

Those three aren't the chips the Mac Pro will use are they? It says those are the Core 2's.... The Mac Pro uses Xeons.