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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > GUI Customization > No Tabs in Panther?

No Tabs in Panther?
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CarbonG4
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Jun 23, 2003, 05:11 PM
 
I was cruising through the Panther page on Apple's site ( http://www.apple.com/macosx/panther ) and noticing a trend with the small preview images Apple has shown -- Tabs are no where to be found. They have replaced the tabs in favor of a new aqua bar in the style that they use on their product pages on their site.

Look here:


here:


here:


... and here:


Chances are that tabs themselves will remain in the interface, but it appears that his new aqua bar will become the new Human Interface Guideline for Panther. Just an interesting observation I thought, perhaps I'm just jumping the gun though.

//Carbon


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SwarmyCurve
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Jun 23, 2003, 05:25 PM
 
Yes, I noticed this too. The new look is more pleasing than tabs. Looks fresh and new!
     
NetworkShadow
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Jun 23, 2003, 06:09 PM
 
I think it's cool.
click one
     
mdc
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Jun 23, 2003, 06:27 PM
 
i like it
     
lavar78
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Jun 23, 2003, 07:49 PM
 
I don't know. I like it, but I also don't think it's as clear as tabs are.
     
bbxstudio
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Jun 23, 2003, 07:55 PM
 
Thank god... tabs are a huge pain in the ass to do (and they're too high as well, simply monstrous in their proportions). I've actually been faking a similar effect in my theme for the past oh-so-many months. Nice to see Apple doing SOMETHING to conserve screen real estate.
     
CarbonG4  (op)
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Jun 23, 2003, 08:18 PM
 
I think it's pretty nice as well... but it absolutely infuriates me because of how much time I have spent on the Meteora tabs. I freaking quit!

//Carbon


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kmkkid
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Jun 23, 2003, 08:24 PM
 
They don't make sense at all. Especially in the task manager type app. Why are they hovering half way over a sunken dialog? Man, Panthers UI is starting to look horrific.


Chris
     
Steb Mad
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Jun 23, 2003, 08:27 PM
 
Originally posted by kmkkid:
They don't make sense at all. Especially in the task manager type app. Why are they hovering half way over a sunken dialog? Man, Panthers UI is starting to look horrific.


Chris
And Windows' UI is starting to look great? Oh please.
     
fireside
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Jun 23, 2003, 08:32 PM
 
Originally posted by CarbonG4:
I freaking quit!

//Carbon
NOOOO!!!!
     
swiz
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Jun 23, 2003, 08:33 PM
 
Originally posted by CarbonG4:
I freaking quit!

//Carbon
ha! Ive said this many a time too Brandon, its just a phase.

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kmkkid
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Jun 23, 2003, 08:48 PM
 
Originally posted by Steb Mad:
And Windows' UI is starting to look great? Oh please.
Who said anything about windows?

But yes, some things in windows are more logical.


Chris
     
bbxstudio
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Jun 23, 2003, 09:03 PM
 
Originally posted by kmkkid:
They don't make sense at all. Especially in the task manager type app. Why are they hovering half way over a sunken dialog?
Because if they didn't overlap the sunken area, you wouldn't know that they applied specifically to the contents of that area. Think about it, if they were sitting above the sunken perimeter, how the heck would you know what was going to change when you clicked 'em? They make sense to me... other bits of Panther are a little silly, but I like the tabs (or lack thereof).

I always found these persistent office stationary metaphors silly anyways. To me, folders are directories, tabs are context headers, the trashbin is stale - gimme a new terminology and symbology that more accurately reflects the great leap this technology represents... in the future, the trash hovering on your holographic desktop will just need to be changed anyways so it can accurately represent its real-world counterpart (probably some sort of wall-mounted ion vapourizer). I can just see the manual now... "to permanently delete a file, simply drag it to the Wall-Mounted Ion Vapourizer in the Dock and either select 'Empty Wall-Mounted Ion Vapourizer' in the File menu or utter the phrase 'Computer, empty Wall-Mounted Ion Vapourizer..." If they just called it the Delete Cue, it could always and forever be called the Delete Cue - it's an unprecedented and utterly virtual concept - there's no need for metaphor. Blah blah blah blah blah (Honey, what's in this tea, anyways?)

BTW, I guess this means there is no longer a distinction between top and bottom tabs (and left/right tabs would merely need to flip the text depending on the side thay were on). I wonder if Apple will actually delete redundant resources from the extras.rsrc this time around or if they'll linger on for years like many other redundant elements have (?)
     
decursive
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Jun 23, 2003, 09:04 PM
 
Originally posted by kmkkid:
They don't make sense at all. Especially in the task manager type app. Why are they hovering half way over a sunken dialog? Man, Panthers UI is starting to look horrific.
no, it makes more sense this way. as it is right now, there are two completely different type of tabs: the standard kind and the browser kind. this is confusing, so they made it like this. the buttons are in the middle of the top of the gray area, suggesting they control the content of that gray area. and now there is only one type of tab.
= decursive =
     
kmkkid
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Jun 23, 2003, 09:14 PM
 
Originally posted by bbxstudio:
Because if they didn't overlap the sunken area, you wouldn't know that they applied specifically to the contents of that area. Think about it, if they were sitting above the sunken perimeter, how the heck would you know what was going to change when you clicked 'em? They make sense to me... other bits of Panther are a little silly, but I like the tabs (or lack thereof).

I always found these persistent office stationary metaphors silly anyways. To me, folders are directories, tabs are context headers, the trashbin is stale - gimme a new terminology and symbology that more accurately reflects the great leap this technology represents... in the future, the trash hovering on your holographic desktop will just need to be changed anyways so it can accurately represent its real-world counterpart (probably some sort of wall-mounted ion vapourizer). I can just see the manual now... "to permanently delete a file, simply drag it to the Wall-Mounted Ion Vapourizer in the Dock and either select 'Empty Wall-Mounted Ion Vapourizer' in the File menu or utter the phrase 'Computer, empty Wall-Mounted Ion Vapourizer..." If they just called it the Delete Cue, it could always and forever be called the Delete Cue - it's an unprecedented and utterly virtual concept - there's no need for metaphor. Blah blah blah blah blah (Honey, what's in this tea, anyways?)

BTW, I guess this means there is no longer a distinction between top and bottom tabs (and left/right tabs would merely need to flip the text depending on the side thay were on). I wonder if Apple will actually delete redundant resources from the extras.rsrc this time around or if they'll linger on for years like many other redundant elements have (?)
That makes sense I guess, but it just looks odd. They could have put it inside the sunken dialog. *shrug*

Chris
     
quandarry
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Jun 23, 2003, 11:23 PM
 
well they aren't really tabs anymore are they (as tabs for a folder) but buttons to change what appears in the sunken area...i like that idea...

but you know what that means more friggin' buttons in the extras rsrc...

i don't know if i can take looking at more buttons and more friggin' tiny cut up parts of buttons...

buttons...buttons...buttons.... more buttons...noooooooooooo............
     
OwlBoy
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Jun 24, 2003, 01:31 AM
 
I like em. But I dont know about all this interface quidelines changing...

What do you guys think of all these new multi-item-menu-items?

-Owl
     
iOliverC
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Jun 24, 2003, 02:59 AM
 
There will need to be normal tabs. There are some uses these tabs cannot be used for, full text views for example. And whats Camino gonna do?
     
bOOzo
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Jun 24, 2003, 06:33 AM
 
Originally posted by quandarry:
buttons...buttons...buttons.... more buttons...noooooooooooo............
Hav you tried the theme template with theme park 1.0? It's really easy to create the most part of all buttons. And I could add more buttons to it in the future.
     
lookmark
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Jun 24, 2003, 06:09 PM
 
It seems like Apple is acknowledging that tabs have evolved from a static element (used in static preference or activity panes) to a dynamic element (tabbed browsing). Thus the new button appearance for the GUI element formely known as tabs. Kinda interesting.

Originally posted by OwlBoy:
What do you guys think of all these new multi-item-menu-items?
You mean the new "tabs"?
     
SomeToast
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Jun 24, 2003, 06:59 PM
 
Originally posted by lookmark:
You mean the new "tabs"?
I think the "new multi-item-menu-items" OwlBoy refers to are like the Finder's Label selection method.

Which, of course, sucks.

No associated text with the label, seven labels only -- a hierarchical menu would have been better than what they came up with in every way.

I'm baffled as to who spent the time and effort to come up with an entirely new UI paradigm that's worse than an existing solution. That's the person who should find their job listed on Apple's employment site!

From Apple's site:
File and Folder Labels.
The Action menu lets you further organize files and folders by assigning a color that identifies status, such as "Draft," "Homework," "Poetry" or "Business."
Sure, as long as you remember that "Draft" is yellow, "Homework" blue, "Poetry" red and "Business" green.
( Last edited by SomeToast; Jun 24, 2003 at 07:05 PM. )
     
lookmark
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:02 PM
 
Yeah, labels look pretty disappointing. I never used 'em, anyway.

I imagine that they'll get at least somewhat better in the final release...
     
Fluid
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:07 PM
 
     
swiz
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:18 PM
 
Originally posted by Fluid:
http://panther.knite.net/panther1?page=1

No tabs anywhere
Should we assume that since the "Appearance" pref pane isnt shown that it hasnt changed?

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quandarry
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Jun 24, 2003, 09:36 PM
 
Originally posted by swiz:
Should we assume that since the "Appearance" pref pane isnt shown that it hasnt changed?
all those pics and not one of the appearance pref pane...
     
MindFad
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Jun 24, 2003, 10:31 PM
 
New tabs:
     
ARENA
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Jun 25, 2003, 01:15 AM
 
Originally posted by MindFad:
New tabs:
Ditto!
     
NetworkShadow
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Jun 25, 2003, 01:24 AM
 
Am I the only one who doesn't like the new Finder icon as much as the old?

I think it's too flat or something, and looks strange when it's small.
click one
     
bbxstudio
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Jun 25, 2003, 01:38 AM
 
Originally posted by NetworkShadow:
Am I the only one who doesn't like the new Finder icon as much as the old?

I think it's too flat or something, and looks strange when it's small.
No, I'd have to agree - they messed THAT up too. Grrrr... when will the disappointments end?
     
DeathMan
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Jun 25, 2003, 02:06 AM
 
I like the new tabs, but I don't really get why they use a well for the content area. I thought wells were supposed to be for dragging things into. Thats what I've seen them used for, anyway. Not just a general content area. Seems inconsistent.
     
quandarry
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Jun 25, 2003, 02:15 AM
 
Originally posted by bOOzo:
Hav you tried the theme template with theme park 1.0? It's really easy to create the most part of all buttons. And I could add more buttons to it in the future.
well i made my way thru most of the buttons on the systronic theme before themepark 1.0 came out with all those actions so it was a bit late too really help me...i got really discouraged...and chucked the damn theme aside for a while...it's really plodding work...the whole theme making thing i mean...i may never make another after i finally get this damn thing out the door...at least then i can say ...hey! i made a theme...

that's why it's so discouraging to have people post...oh that sucks or that's garbage even when it's directed at someone elses theme...makes you just wanna chuck theme making right out the door...
     
dole
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Jun 25, 2003, 04:41 PM
 
Originally posted by quandarry:
all those pics and not one of the appearance pref pane...
Appearance Pref Pane
     
bOOzo
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Jun 25, 2003, 05:33 PM
 
Originally posted by quandarry:
well i made my way thru most of the buttons on the systronic theme before themepark 1.0 came out with all those actions so it was a bit late too really help me...i got really discouraged...and chucked the damn theme aside for a while...it's really plodding work...the whole theme making thing i mean...i may never make another after i finally get this damn thing out the door...at least then i can say ...hey! i made a theme...

that's why it's so discouraging to have people post...oh that sucks or that's garbage even when it's directed at someone elses theme...makes you just wanna chuck theme making right out the door...
You can import a exsisting theme into a 1.0 theme template. There are instructions on how to do that in the ThemePark read me.

I know it sucks when people complain about a finished theme, they obviously don't know how much work it takes to make one..
     
Sage
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Jun 25, 2003, 05:48 PM
 
Originally posted by NetworkShadow:
Am I the only one who doesn't like the new Finder icon as much as the old?

I think it's too flat or something, and looks strange when it's small.
Well, personally, I don't mind the "flatness", but I know what you mean by it looks weird when small... the eyes are placed way too high, so it looks dorky when made smaller.
     
RGB
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Jun 25, 2003, 07:32 PM
 
I think the new 'tabs' look very nice, but they look out of place in an Adium window. Sure, they're pretty, but they don't convey the relationship to the displayed contnet as well as the current tabs do.
     
bbxstudio
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Jun 25, 2003, 08:31 PM
 
Um, the Finder icon is the same as before - not sure where you got this one, but in the Developer preview of Panther, it's the same old icon...
     
Gatorzx2
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Jun 25, 2003, 08:53 PM
 
Originally posted by bbxstudio:
Um, the Finder icon is the same as before - not sure where you got this one, but in the Developer preview of Panther, it's the same old icon...
It's new for me here:

( Last edited by Gatorzx2; Jun 25, 2003 at 09:43 PM. )
     
mrtew
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Jun 25, 2003, 09:52 PM
 
Originally posted by bbxstudio:
Um, the Finder icon is the same as before - not sure where you got this one, but in the Developer preview of Panther, it's the same old icon...
What are you talking about.... look how high the eyes are! It's looks like it's on acid or something. It's like Apple is trying to FORCE people to use themes and custom icons or something. Post a pic of the one you are looking at if it's not this one.

I love the U.S., but we need some time apart.
     
MindFad
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Jun 25, 2003, 09:56 PM
 
Originally posted by NetworkShadow:
Am I the only one who doesn't like the new Finder icon as much as the old?

I think it's too flat or something, and looks strange when it's small.
Yeah, it feels cheesey. First thing I thought: "Whoa, the new graphic artist at Apple just learned how to do Aqua, and is doing it bad." It is flat. It's not terrible, and it does match that new funky Panther "X." I can live with it if Panther is snappy.
     
bbxstudio
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Jun 25, 2003, 10:20 PM
 
Originally posted by mrtew:
What are you talking about.... look how high the eyes are! It's looks like it's on acid or something. It's like Apple is trying to FORCE people to use themes and custom icons or something. Post a pic of the one you are looking at if it's not this one.
Being a reformed Acidhead, I take offense at the implication that LSD makes your eyes ride up on your head... more to the point, you are correct - the Finder guy in the Dock is pretty stoned/deformed/badly rendered (but if you go to About Finder, he's his old self - this must've been the guy I recalled seeing and thinking 'he hasn't changed' - hey, blame it on lack of sleep (the infant deprives me of such pleasures).
     
ambush
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Jun 25, 2003, 10:45 PM
 
Originally posted by NetworkShadow:
Am I the only one who doesn't like the new Finder icon as much as the old?

I think it's too flat or something, and looks strange when it's small.
Give them time to perfect it up.

I mean do you remember the "hello" startup image in the early Jag builds?
     
qnxde
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Jun 26, 2003, 09:01 AM
 
Originally posted by iOliverC:
There will need to be normal tabs. There are some uses these tabs cannot be used for, full text views for example. And whats Camino gonna do?
Crash, presently

You can't eat all those hamburgers, you hear me you ridiculous man?
     
Mediaman_12
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Jun 26, 2003, 09:16 AM
 
Originally posted by qnxde:
Crash, presently
Well there was a bunch of people who said that Camino's tabs where against Apple's GUI guidelines, and that athey should use some thing other than 'GUI' tabs. But the devs, and a load of Camino fans said it was great, and didn't break anything. Well guess what, if you bend the rules one day thay may snap.
Firebird's 'safari style' tabs are far better.
     
chezpaul
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Jun 27, 2003, 06:15 PM
 
I like the graphics of this guy who U guys posted your screenshots from his server...
hahah.. Very funny... ;-)
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kmkkid
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Jun 27, 2003, 10:13 PM
 
priceless.



Chris
     
NetworkShadow
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Jun 28, 2003, 12:59 AM
 
oops lol
click one
     
mrbiiggy2
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Jun 28, 2003, 04:41 AM
 
Gotta love mod_rewrite.
     
tyson.r
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Jul 6, 2003, 06:50 PM
 
Originally posted by kmkkid:
Who said anything about windows?

But yes, some things in windows are more logical.


Chris


funny this comment comes in the tabs thread...considering windows changes the position of tabs in response to clicking on others in different rows (hope i explained this right...its confusing), i just have to laugh...its one of the least logical parts ive experience in the windows UI.
     
   
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