[[email protected]]

Whilst browsing around I keep coming upon articles by various Jurno's with good intentions on their views on OSX but some of them are just plain wrong, anyway here is a message I posted on MacCentral and thought I'd share my views here as well...

And I quote from this guys article

" OS X has one big problem, however. It's useless. You can surf the Web, pick up your email, write using a basic text editor, use Napster and play a pretty cool game called Oni. That's about it. And that's not enough. For those who depend on Macintosh software to build websites or design brochures, it's a waste of time for now. The software, which needs to be rewritten to take advantage of OS X, simply isn't there... "

Well that's funny because I've been running all my old software without a hitch since my switch to OS X, that includes the likes of Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Fireworks, etc, etc.

About the only two things I have lost since the switch is the use of my Wacom Artpad and my CD Burner.

For everything else there is little hacks and work arounds.

Nobody seems to mention things such as that you can print from OS X no problem even if your printer is unsupported, just print it from a classic app. There are loads of these little tricks you can use until native support is available for X, sure a slight pain but you can still do it.

I know that Jurno's such as this are basically saying there are no NATIVE applications available (which is RAPIDLY changing I might add), but for them to basically imply that you can't do anything within OS X is just plain wrong and I think Apple needs to address this. I am seeing it in nearly every article I read about X, and god knows what effect it's having on people's perception on this most excellent of systems.

I haven't enjoyed computing like this since the day my Amiga 3000T melted down on me in December 1992... back then computing was fun, the Amiga had a great OS that was stable and quick. But OS X takes that so much further. One comment I keep seeing is how much people hate going back to OS 9 after using X for a while, well believe you me it is like that, I feel the same... it feels like my Miggy would now, old and dated. Thing is you very soon get to love the increased productivity you almost forget how many programs you have running....

Here is an example, the other day whilst at work in my graphics related job (surprise surprise) I was ripping a DVD onto my HD whilst at the same time I was decoding another movie in the background. Whilst that was going on I had my Web browser going... whilst at the same time I had Photoshop AND Dreamweaver going... I was WORKING, I mean I was really WORKING. Damn the amount of time this OS is saving me in productivity is AWSOME!!! oh and I was also listening to my MP3's with iTune's, no skips, no stutters.... all 6580 songs :-)

Oh and did I leave out the little things such as the fact that my Apache Web server was running and serving pages and I had file sharing on (in OS 9 a lovely speed hit).... non of this really slowing the machine down to a point where it was unusable, sure it wasn't quite as smooth switching windows, but come on! In OS 9 just ripping the DVD to my HD would mean not being able to do anything for the next hour or so.

What I want to know is what is Apple doing about changing this misconception, the worst thing is it's a misconception widely held within the Macintosh community as well.

Tim

[the_sisko]

I couldn't believe that statement that you can't do anything in OS X when I read it earlier today. It's so absurd! We have Freehand and Acrobat, what else do you need? But seriously, there are a *lot* of apps for OS X, just not the big commercial apps (which makes since because those apps have millions of lines of code versus the thousands of lines of code for small freeware/shareware apps). The commercial apps are coming in the summer, and for right now Classic is good for most things that you have to do in OS 9.

The big limitation of Classic, though, is graphics programs. Screen redrawing in Classic for those apps is much slower than in native OS 9. When I want to do an animation in Flash, I reboot into OS 9 unless it's something relatively minor because the screen redrawing is just too slow. But sometimes I just want to hash out a quick graphic, so I do that in Classic using Fireworks. No problem.

Perhaps the main quote I object to is "You can surf the Web." I haven't seen a good OS X browser yet! I never use IE for OS X because it's so bad and takes anywhere from 5-15% of my processor even when it's idle. OmniWeb is good, but its Flash implementation and frames are really lacking. They've done a pretty good job so far, but those things are definitely needed for their next release. Overall, OmniWeb is the best browser if a little slow. I do like its source editor a lot.

One thing the article forgot to mention is that with OS X we have at our disposal the ability to use one of the most advanced (if not *the*) interface creation tools ever built--InterfaceBuilder. Development is really, really nice on OS X no matter what you use. Of course, that doesn't really help the masses, but if programmers are happy the masses will be helped in the long run as more applications become available and they become available more quickly than ever before.

[typoon]

It's a Media conspiracy. LOL anyway, this article isn't saying much just showing how ignorrant the press can be sometimes. Remeber these are the people who brought us the Election debacle. I think though even people in the press are giving Apple a bad name because they are PC users. This is why we need to continue the battle to report the correct story.

[michaelb]

I don't mind articles like that, providing they include the word "yet."

Quite clearly, for people other than early adopters, the mainstream audience is well advised to steer clear.

All issues taken into account - lead time for developers to carbonize apps, performance issues, Finder incompleteness, etc, etc, the OS is clearly not ready for primetime, yet...

There's a saying:

"Pioneers are the ones with arrows in their chests."

(But we also get to see the new world that awaits before anyone else does.)

[edddeduck]

Yup Arrows in Chest LOL

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450DP/448MB/80GB/Rage/Zip250/ZipCD/Epson740

I Took The Red Pill

[moreno]

"OS X has one big problem, however. It's useless. You can surf the Web, pick up your email, write using a basic text editor, use Napster and play a pretty cool game called Oni. That's about it. And that's not enough. For those who depend on Macintosh software to build websites or design brochures, it's a waste of time for now. The software, which needs to be rewritten to take advantage of OS X, simply isn't there... "

I agree. I like Mac OS X, but i have to admit that the system is very slow, and not viable to work. Mac OS 9, is faster, and the simply, old-fashioned mac interface (however without buffered windows) give to the user, a workarea
that allow the fast work without brainstorming and confusion...


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[edddeduck]

Useless?????

I use omni graffle alot for my work and on my 450DP X is great and alot easier to get stuff done.

Its isn't great but I CAN work in X fine.....

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450DP/448MB/80GB/Rage/Zip250/ZipCD/Epson740

I Took The Red Pill

[moreno]

q-I use omni graffle alot for my work and on my 450DP X is great and alot easier to get stuff done.
-
wow... making diagrams! uau.... now try to open after effects and the photoshop.. i don't understand someppl... OS X is useless for work ppl.. why deny about him? i like to surf in the dock with all applications closed - its very beauty and eye candy - but for true work - is useless... maybe someday, one year later... not now, this is a beta.

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[edddeduck]

umm... Right

All my apps run all the time as there is no overhead unlike os 9.

Graphs I could almost take offence to our program project being described as a graph but OK point taken.

Photoshop is not really much slower on my machine and stability is important as in 9 my MP crashed alot were as in X is so much more solid.

Lets just agree to disagree as it is fine to work in for some people and not for others yet. In the summer this will become a mute point anyway.

Any way lets not get into a flame war so, again I hope the apps you need are carbonized soon.

L8r Edd

[edit] Grammar mistake...

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450DP/448MB/80GB/Rage/Zip250/ZipCD/Epson740

I Took The Red Pill

[This message has been edited by edddeduck (edited 05-12-2001).]

[plaidpjs]

Originally posted by moreno:
q-I use omni graffle alot for my work and on my 450DP X is great and alot easier to get stuff done.
-
wow... making diagrams! uau.... now try to open after effects and the photoshop.. i don't understand someppl... OS X is useless for work ppl.. why deny about him? i like to surf in the dock with all applications closed - its very beauty and eye candy - but for true work - is useless... maybe someday, one year later... not now, this is a beta.

Moreno,

I swore I wasn't going to defend X anymore until the summer and MWNY had come and gone, but, after reading your posts in this thread, I have got to say something.

To say OS X is worthless is a disservice to this operating system. I would even venture to guess that you aren't actively trying to use the OS but are sitting on the sidelines harping at the fact you don't have a NATIVE copy of After Effects.

If you feel that, because Adobe hasn't released all fo their commercial Apps for OS X, that makes OS X useless, then you simply haven't looked into what's available for OS X currently, and what is soon to come.

In the category of BRAND SPANKING NEW to the Mac platform, we have: PHP, Python, Perl, MySQL, Apache, and a cornucopia of math and science apps. All working, all usable, all adding increasing functionality to the Apple brand.

In the category of COMING VERY SOON, we have: Maya, Lightwave, Filemaker, Microsoft Office, and several Macromedia programs. They all look highly promising, and take advantage of the spectacular new features of OS X.

In the category of HERE RIGHT NOW, we have: BBEdit, TIFFany, Acrobat Reader, Graphic Converter, Pepper, Freehand, Cinema 4D, Fetch, Omni Graffle, MacDraft, iMovie, GifBuilder, Slice And Dice, and a myriad of Internet related applications, netwoking applications, and other system utilities.

So, to say you can't do anything with OS X, well... that's obviously just ... WRONG!

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G4/533 DP, 768 MB RAM, 40GB HDD, 32MB GeForce2 MX, 30GB VST Firewire Drive, and an Apple Cinema Display.

[MacGorilla]

I use the Gimp for all my Photoshop needs. I have modest requirements and it fits the bill just fine!
http://www.macgimp.org/zizban

[mumble]

Originally posted by moreno:
wow... making diagrams! uau.... now try to open after effects and the photoshop.. i don't understand someppl... OS X is useless for work ppl.. why deny about him? i like to surf in the dock with all applications closed - its very beauty and eye candy - but for true work - is useless... maybe someday, one year later... not now, this is a beta.

While it's clear that people do need native versions of current apps, be they Carbon or Cocoa, it's nonsense to claim there are no real apps now - just because you've no experience with Stone Create or Tiffany or M or NoteAbility or .... doesn't make them (or X )useless. It is not a beta.

[the_sisko]

I would be interested to know what percentage of the people who bought OS X are developers. Right now that's the big benefit of OS X, the development environment, especially for college students. Right now the development environment/apps are the best for the OS X as far as productivity is concerned. The rest will be here in a couple of months.

[I'mDaMac]

I think that what some of you people on these boards fail to realize is that up until now the core user base for macintosh was the creative industry (that being artists and musicians). With OS X the tides seem to be changing but I'm hoping that Apple can keep all users happy. To be honest I really don't care that I can run a server or compile *nix apps. Sure those are cool features for some but certainly not for most. The vast majority of macusers I've worked with and am in contact with AREN'T computer geeks. They could give a damn about unix. They don't care to know or want to know about the terminal, apache, perl, "buzzword-x," "buzzword-y." I'm not a programmer; I'm an end-user.

Before Newtek released LightWave recently, there was no way I could do serious work in OS X (BTW, OpenGL does indeed rock in OS X). FreeHand will be nice too since it is also one of my core programs. Photoshop, Illustrator, and Quark are others. The lack of drivers for scanners and other peripherals doesn't help much either. Until these programs are released as OS X native apps, OS X is largely useless for me and others in my shoes. Sure I can boot into classic to use these apps but there are NO benefits to doing this. A crash that would bring OS 9 down will also bring down classic. Since I'd have to restart classic anyways, which is functionally the same as restarting OS 9, why bother?

OS X should prove to be a great working environment in the future (a future I for one am looking forward to), but right now it is not quite ready for prime-time. It is, IMHO, Mac OS X Public Beta 2.

[This message has been edited by I'mDaMac (edited 05-12-2001).]

[Gee-Man]

Originally posted by I'mDaMac:
OS X should prove to be a great working environment in the future (a future I for one am looking forward to), but right now it is not quite ready for prime-time. It is, IMHO, Mac OS X Public Beta 2.

I agree that OS X is not quite ready for a lot of people to make the switch - but let's not confuse Apple's resposibilities with 3rd party developers. Problems in OS X itself would earn it the name of "Public Beta 2", but a lack of apps has nothing to do with this and shouldn't be blamed on Apple. This is always normal for a new operating system.

I just wonder why so many other people on these forums want to direct their energy at Apple when their favorite app isn't OS X native yet, when the real fault lies with the software developer and should be directed at them. Email them, go on any public forum they have and shout at them, but don't say "Apple messed up" just because After Effects isn't Carbonized yet..

[gorgonzola]

The huge and silly mistake that people make is that native apps are not available only for certain markets and that Adobe is not the only graphics software developer in the world.

(1) Web developers, for example, can get more done than they ever did in OS 9, or in Windows. This is a market that's very pleased with OS X.

(2) Yes, Adobe does make the most full-featured suite of apps, but there are a lot of people who use Photoshop but don't use it to its fullest potential. There are a wealth of alternatives out there for these people, including softwaree like the GIMP and TIFFany.

Some people will have to wait for Adobe, Microsoft and the gang to Carbonize; however, there are several markets that can already work natively and be extremely productive. X is instantly useful to a lot of people, just not everyone. Not everyone != No one.

And I'm leaving out Classic in this scenario. Hell, I'd use OS X just for the stability it's added to OS 9. (Well, not really, but you get the point...)

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the oddball newsletter
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it's only after you lose everything that you're free to do anything

[This message has been edited by gorgonzola (edited 05-12-2001).]

[kman42]

This is ridiculous. Just because your favorite apps aren't available yet, doesn't make OSX useless. I love it and don't have to boot into classic, ever! I use my mac for science related apps (academia and scientific apps are certainly not a small proportion of apple's business) and OSX has been a boon. Apps that previously ran only on my unix workstation are now on my desktop mac that I also use for writing and graphics. That makes my mac twice as useful as it was before and growing quickly.

Nor is OSX a beta release. It is a 1.0.3 release. I think the confusion arises because apple calls it 10.0.3 which implies that it should not be missing any features that 9.1 has (like Disc Burner). In fact OSX is a totally new OS and should properly be called OSX 1.0.3. Nevertheless, just because some auxiliary features are missing (DVD playing, older machine serial support, video acceleration) or there is a lack of 3rd party apps and drivers doesn't make it a beta. It is clearly stable enough, fast enough, and "quirk"-free enough to be called a 1.0.3 release. I can't think of any bugs that would cause OSX to be considered a beta quality product. If you think of it as a 1.0 series release then the lack of third party apps and drivers is expected.

If it doesn't work for you yet, then wait for 11.0 (really 2.0 which is totally confusing!). That doesn't mean that it's useless (or even less than exceptional) for others.

kman

[edit--i even confused myself with the version numbers ]

[This message has been edited by kman42 (edited 05-12-2001).]

[I'mDaMac]

Originally posted by Gee-Man:
I agree that OS X is not quite ready for a lot of people to make the switch - but let's not confuse Apple's resposibilities with 3rd party developers. Problems in OS X itself would earn it the name of "Public Beta 2", but a lack of apps has nothing to do with this and shouldn't be blamed on Apple. This is always normal for a new operating system.

I just wonder why so many other people on these forums want to direct their energy at Apple when their favorite app isn't OS X native yet, when the real fault lies with the software developer and should be directed at them. Email them, go on any public forum they have and shout at them, but don't say "Apple messed up" just because After Effects isn't Carbonized yet..

I am not judging OS X on the merits of 3rd-party software availability. These are two separate arguments and perhaps I didn't make that clear. OS X is beta 2 (or if you like, a developer's release). It is not yet feature complete for most end-users. Apple half-assed the CD burning capabilities; you can only burn music CD's from iTunes, not data CD's. The i/o kit is still incomplete. Not all "supported" hardware is FULLY supported (lack of RagePro drivers), DVD movie playback is not complete, etc. etc.... The OS is slow, which leads me to believe that is is not yet fully optimized. Slow in my interpretation means the GUI. Aqua is not as responsive as other OS's including Windows. Sorry, but it's the truth. Since I interact with my computer and programs through the UI this is a major fault. I've used OS X on a 733 G4 (top-of-the-line mac) and it still "feels" slow. My experience; not yours.

The lack of third-party apps only serves to magnify the problems with OS X. Whether you think this is fair or not is entirely out of your control. The perception in the general public is that OS X is not finished and that there are no programs available for it since the majority of users DO use PhotoShop, DO use Illustrator, Do use Quark, so on, so forth. Say what you like about the creative industry but it is still Apple's core market. This is how we perceive the state-of-OS X to be; unfinished.

[Hash]

Yeah, it is pretty useless for me too...Damn, how i am disappointed by OSX. Makes me feel i should switch to Windows long ago..and i waisted money buying OSX..

[Brad Nelson]

In all honesty, as much as I dislike the OS X interface, if there were X versions of Illlustrator, Photoshop, etc., then I think I could make use of it. Wouldn't be anywhere near as productive, but I could use it.

Hey, I'm not a big fan of the press, particularly the dominant liberal press, but I think giving someone the title of "journalist" doesn't automatically make them wise, informed or unbiased. To say that OS X is useless is obviously idiotic. But that same press tells us that Bush wants to poison everyone's water. As always, it's best to get all sides of the story and come to your own conclusions. Unfortunately too many people see "the press" as a quick concentration of "all sides of the story".

[jbmelby]

To return to the topic of this thread, namely "Misconceptions of OS X in the press," I'd just like to mention that a great deal of this misinformation comes from reading rants in fora such as these about this or that feature that is missing from OS X, or that is present but not implemented in a way that the writers of those rants would like it to be. All that the lazy journalists (that's redundant, isn't it?) need do is to go to any one of hundreds of such threads posted by people who are supposedly supporters of the Mac platform(s). They'll find quite enough bitching and complaining in these posts to save them the trouble of asking, say, Steve Ballmer his opinion of OS X.

Don't misunderstand me: I'm not suggesting that we censor our remarks, either voluntarily or not. After all, our opinions are, despite some remarks from the more disaffected of us to the contrary, taken into account by Apple, as we have seen from some of the changes that have been made between the first developer versions and the current v 10.0.3. But I think we would do well when tempted to engage in excessively extravagant negative hyperbole, to remember the words that Walt Kelly put into the mouth of the wise (if ungrammatical) philosopher, Pogo Possum:

"We have met the enemy--and he is us!"

[macnetic]

Originally posted by Brad Nelson:
... But that same press tells us that Bush wants to poison everyone's water. ...

What? Fluoride? "A communist conspiracy to destroy the purity of the Sacred Bodily Fluids of Americans!" ;-)

(Sorry, just saw the movie for the first time, and couldn't resist. "Look, I can walk, mein Fuhr... sorry, mister president." Freaking Awesome!)

[Ghoser777]

Originally posted by Hash:
Yeah, it is pretty useless for me too...Damn, how i am disappointed by OSX. Makes me feel i should switch to Windows long ago..and i waisted money buying OSX..

Are you being sarcastic? I can't tell. What exaclty can't you do in OSX that you could do in OS 9 (minus hardware related stuff like scanning and burning CDs)? I'm not sure I'd switch to windows if I was going to switch - that whole "own Windows for a year and then pay Microsoft more money" aka you don't own software thang kind of sucks.

F-bacher