[Hash]

Apple still did not release a reasonable bug-fix report for 3 earlier updates of OSX, users are totally in darkness what is being updated and for what reason, rumors are surfacing everywhere (most stupid being "I am Apple employee, but i am private person but i am responsible for everything but it is top Secret but I created Dock and Aqua") or about 10.5 (already a myth of legendary proportions, huh?).

Ppl spend days clicking on software updates, coz otherwise you need 312->500->1 GB of RAM to have DECENT performance EVEN on G4..notice increasing RAM requirements?..

Come on, Apple what is going on? What you going to fix and how? Do we need 512 MB of RAM to run decently your greatest OS? Maybe you will put that "recommended" on a box of OSX?

I already said that droppings of updates are becoming ridicolous-decide whether you have to buy more RAM if rumor says "On Friday..you will get VEERY FAAST finder",,etc..

Do they take us for fools??? Now, its almost becoming a prayer..Wait till JUly, everything gonna be like in Paradise-DVD, speed, support, sound, Finder, customization...Oh really??? Oh maybe its just another rumor???

As a rational man, i dont want anymore rumors. I paid my money I want clarity with the damn product and the damn upgrades-what is upgraded, when, how, -i need that correct info to decide my future hardware/software plans etc.

I ask only , please no more "private Apple employees" to give me vague and empty answers like "i know we know, hehe". Give me damn true information and I hope its as secret as Pentagon plans, right?? Even dudes in green publish White Books on what they are going to shoot in what situation.

Maybe Apple thinks its looks so cool surrounded by mystery but i think it looks like more arrogant and irresponsible. (or maybe lost?)

[Gametes]

As a rational man...

That's hilarious, Hash.

[Gametes]

What you say?!
Do they take us for fool!?
Come on, Apple, What going on!?
Send every Update!

------------------
you are not your signature

[Hash]

Gametes,

you are certainly not what your signature tells (what the heck is it, really)

I dont want that damn secrecy and uncertaintty with Apple anymore. What, is it so difficult to inform users that "there were some bugs (1,2,3) we have corrected them by (action 1, action 2)..we are working on some other bugs (1, 2, 3)..we are adding new features (1, 2 , 3)". Is it so damn difficult???

Nobody competes with Apple on its OSX market-so why the strategic secrecy? Plain stupid.

You are not your signature and Apple looks plain lost.

[Todd Madson]

Move update!
For great update!

[t_hah]

I agree with you about the rumors. They are ridiculous, but you know what? That is why they are called rumors. Apple is working as hard as they can to make OS X the best possible. Updates will be coming, but when, I do not know.
Some sites are giving dates, and saying that they got them from reliable source. If you believed them maybe you should go to their site and complain there.
I understand that you are upset, we probably all are upset a bit with all these "the update will be here tomorrow" rumors. But you have to just let all that go. Life goes on.
If you want a definite date on the update, then wait till July. There you go, and don't complain about updates till then please.

Believe only what you want and do not get upset if things don't turn out the way yu want them to.

t

[Norm1985]

Listen Hash, Apple wants to make OS X the best it can! They don't want people to move over to the competition, the Windows side with their Windows XP which already looks like a pretty decent operating system.

------------------


E-mail: [email protected]
AIM: Norm1985
ICQ: 34049393

[blah]

Originally posted by Norm1985:
They don't want people to move over to the competition, the Windows side with their Windows XP which already looks like a pretty decent operating system.

hahahaha! Have you seen XP? looks decent... sheesh... Looks like a copy of OS X that drank too much and puked all over itself....

[Norm1985]

Actually, the XP interface has many diffrent elements and at least it's 2D acclerated. It is a decent OS, and if you don't like the interface at least you can easily change it to the older one! Built right into the OS!

------------------


E-mail: [email protected]
AIM: Norm1985
ICQ: 34049393

[blah]

Originally posted by Norm1985:
Actually, the XP interface has many diffrent elements and at least it's 2D acclerated. It is a decent OS, and if you don't like the interface at least you can easily change it to the older one! Built right into the OS!

It's just as cool as Netscape 6!!!! WOW!!! - rolling eyes -

All the updates installed almost invisiblly. What does it matter if Apple releases them once a week or once every day. Very few people do all their work in OS X (no-apps really, too slow), so the more updates the better. Eventually, instead of the bugfixes, we'll get an update that actually speeds things up. Of course when that one comes out, we'll probably have to pay.

[blah]

Originally posted by lnotsotinytim:
All the updates installed almost invisiblly. What does it matter if Apple releases them once a week or once every day. Very few people do all their work in OS X (no-apps really, too slow), so the more updates the better.

Actually, in my experience quite a few people use only OSX.

Eventually, instead of the bugfixes, we'll get an update that actually speeds things up. Of course when that one comes out, we'll probably have to pay.

I seriously doubt that we will have to pay. Eventually yes, we will have to pay for an upgrade, but by that time we will have had many free updates, including ones that speed it up. Posting comments just makes people mad at Apple for no reason. Until they charge for that update, don't go around assuming they will.

[edddeduck]

"You are not your signature"

Its from fight club hash......

We will not have to pay till .5

Apple are

A: Not going to be stupid and make us pay for a summer update
B: Will stick to normall plan of charging for .5 and .0 releases.

Also I find OS X fine I normally don't notice any real problem with the GUI.

I sometimes do but I don't spend all my time resizing windows and lamenting about the speed of it I actually get down and do some work. Stuff like omni graffle crashing annoys me more....

But I have sent them alot of bug reports and it does seem to be getting better.

Also hash I believe most newbee users will not understand/don't care what exactally was done and phrases like Increased MP stability will do.

I agree that a better report could be avail in the dev area....

But I doubt you would find it interesting as the are usually quite heavy going and will be very high density telling stuff about bugs and code we didn't know. But I do agree it would be nice

I have 448MB and X is great.

I had 128MB and it was still great but slowed when I used classic and photoshop just like it did in OS9 so I bought more memory.

I people spend more time morking and less time looking for holes in X you will find like others that X is alot better than X at alot of things.

ps

Here's hopeing for that super update

[EDIT] Damn Grammer

------------------
450DP/448MB/80GB/Rage/Apple 17"/Zip250/ZipCD/Epson740

ICQ 60617180

I Took The Red Pill

[This message has been edited by edddeduck (edited 05-27-2001).]

[greggers]

I just feel bummed that these updates are looking to be sorta incremental; I hope that when I, say, have to install OS X 10.0.8 I don't need to install 10.0.1, 10.0.3, 10.0.5, etc.

Anyway, Apple doesn't have to release the bug fix list---it probably is too extensive to document...

Why do you care at all? All I care is that with each update things are working smoother and I can go on with my life. chill out.... (and stop reading rumors)

[edddeduck]

1.0.3 does not need 1.0.2

I hope apple keep this idea up of two sizes. One from the latest update, and one from the starting setup....

Good point though as both 1.0.3 and 1.0.2 NEED 1.0.1 installed

------------------
450DP/448MB/80GB/Rage/Apple 17"/Zip250/ZipCD/Epson740

ICQ 60617180

I Took The Red Pill

[JFK2000]

Originally posted by greggers:
I just feel bummed that these updates are looking to be sorta incremental; I hope that when I, say, have to install OS X 10.0.8 I don't need to install 10.0.1, 10.0.3, 10.0.5, etc.

Anyway, Apple doesn't have to release the bug fix list---it probably is too extensive to document...

Why do you care at all? All I care is that with each update things are working smoother and I can go on with my life. chill out.... (and stop reading rumors)

I don't normally agree with Hash. And I certainly don't agree with everything he said. But I do think Apple is being extremely secretive. I don't expect them to tell us everything, but it would be nice if they were a little less vague and more informative about what their future plans are. There are a lot of issues with X, and there isn't even a decent manual for what we have let alone any idea of what we can expect from the future other than dvd support some time in the future.


------------------
Always go to other people's funerals or they won't come to yours.

[tie]

Gotta agree with Hash. I just tried doing some work in Excel and it's totally impossible under OS X. It keeps on typing the number 3 over and over, and it's a complete pain. Has Apple acknowledged this bug? No. But they haven't fixed it for three updates. Does that mean they'll never fix it? I tried to open a pdf in Photoshop and I can't, properly, because the number 3 fills up the image size field. This is just one bug that's making my day pretty annoying today, but there's always something. I am very impatient for Apple to fix something, instead of releasing meaningless updates that, as far as the technotes say, don't do anything (if you read them, they are full of generic synonyms to "improve" but there's never anything solid except for -iTunes burning, and -large folder opening. Is the inability to open large folders the only bug anyone at Apple has ever seen?).

[edddeduck]

They "fixed" the MP Modem KP

And left us with 604 errors instead...

Oh I forgot that was in Darwin and written by Louis NOT apple....

I agree they better get a move on..... and fix the more visible bugs not the other ones.



------------------
450DP/448MB/80GB/Rage/Apple 17"/Zip250/ZipCD/Epson740

ICQ 60617180

I Took The Red Pill

[GnOm]

Originally posted by tie:
Does that mean they'll never fix it?

Since Excel is a Microsoft App, I guess you have to ask them...


cu

[tie]

Originally posted by GnOm:
Since Excel is a Microsoft App, I guess you have to ask them...

It's not Microsoft's fault, it's Apple's. The same bug also occurs in BBEdit and Photoshop.

[GnOm]

Originally posted by tie:
The same bug also occurs in BBEdit and Photoshop.

hmm, never had it in Photoshop, don�t use BBEdit and Excel.
Is this documented somewhere (not Apple of course but macfixit and such)?


cu

[Toyin]

With the repeating 3s. Some folks have had success by using the System Preferences panel and increasing the time before repeat (in Keyboards I think)

------------------
-Toyin

ToyinFayemi.com

[Angus_D]

I don't think that a detailed rundown of what every update fixes is worth the time it takes up - i'd rather they had that engineer spending another few hours tweaking the code

Granted, they did do this with OS 9.x, but I think the reality of the issue is that it doesn't really matter that much. *shrug*

[bernt]

Originally posted by edddeduck:
1.0.3 does not need 1.0.2

I hope apple keep this idea up of two sizes. One from the latest update, and one from the starting setup....

Good point though as both 1.0.3 and 1.0.2 NEED 1.0.1 installed

Are you sure 10.0.3 needs 10.0.1? I've successfully installed 10.0.3 on 10.0.0 several times without problems.

bernt

[Toyin]

I've re-installed OSX at least 3x since the updates and each time I had to go through 10.0.1 to get to 10.0.3 or 10.0.2 The key to the the 10.0.1 update was that it updated Darwin as well. (To 1.3.1 if I remember correctly.) Just make sure you're running the Darwin release that's appropriate for the OS update..

------------------
-Toyin

ToyinFayemi.com

[Hash]

Quote:
" Listen Hash, Apple wants to make OS X the best it can! They don't want people to move over to the competition, the Windows side with their Windows XP which already looks like a pretty decent operating system."

Geez, about what competition with OSX NOW are you talking?? XP may come well next year! And what the 10.03030.0.0 updates of OSX have in common with decency or indencency of XP?? It will have its portion of service packs, so dont worry for them!

Granted, i am not techie, i can not understand the depth and intricate details of code tweaking by Apple. Nevertheless, although OS X came without any manuals, i kept my mouth shut. And i still dont know what is **** happening inside MY machine when i install those 10.020.01.01 updates. Maybe i am very stupid that i am not worth to be given any details of what Apple is doing with the product i paid for. OK. Already a lot of people here were ready to lynch me only because i did not agree OS X is greatest. Heck. let it be greatest, i give up, my only tell me what is going on, what is now optimized, what is real RAM necessary, why things are slow, what you updating! Tell me what that 1000 engineers are working on and when results can be expected, even approximately! OK, dont give the details (Apple thinks i am ****head, so i wont understand anything), but please explain in human words, what is TOP priorities for those 1000 guys? i can understand: "Finder first, then DVD, then in July - some interface things, Dock,," or maybe they think i can not understand even this???

[matthew k]

bottom line is this-
what apple updates they do because they want to.
Most of the things apple updates are things that you wouldn't even understand.
These last few updates have been produced to speed up and add more support for things. Neither of these things really influence what hardware or software I buy, because it doesn't matter.

It would be nice, however, if apple did

[Hash]

I am sure, Matthew, that YOU understand

Congratulations. Keep going

[Kosmo]

Hash,

These forums calmed down quite a bit in the last week as several good threads were started by decent people trying to discuss OS X and it's future.

I see now that you have gotten pissed off again at Apple and have seen fit to try and start yet a another OS X sucks type thread.

The update, whatever it is, will come when it's ready and not a minute sooner. Why bitch about it. Just work. On whatever system you are comfortable in right now. 9x or X, it doesn't matter.

Trying to enliven this forum with your outbursts no longer serve a useful purpose, if they ever did.

Leave it alone. Let them do their job.

------------------
http://www.manzione.com/
MacNETv2 coming July 2001

[BuonRotto]

Hash, first of all you assume a rather hostile stance towards Apple's efforts. Second, OS X was released on March 24. It is a few days past May 24. That's two months with three incremental (NeXT-style) updates already and little time for more. Patience, Grasshopper.

Originally posted by tie:
It's not Microsoft's fault, it's Apple's. The same bug also occurs in BBEdit and Photoshop.

Tie - I use excel and photoshop in classic on a daily basis and do not have any problems? Sounds like it is specific to your setup, or perhaps a classic extension? I am using Office 2001 with the service pack update that came out about a month ago. It fixed a lot of bugs with Office and Classic IMHO.

[gorgonzola]

Ditto. I just used Word and Excel last week to put together a fairly large scale thing, and no hitches at all in Classic.

Maybe I'm just lucky?

------------------
the oddball newsletter
------------------
it's only after you lose everything that you're free to do anything

[tie]

Originally posted by rog:
Tie - I use excel and photoshop in classic on a daily basis and do not have any problems? Sounds like it is specific to your setup, or perhaps a classic extension? I am using Office 2001 with the service pack update that came out about a month ago. It fixed a lot of bugs with Office and Classic IMHO.

No, it's an intermittent thing. Happens about once a week and the only way around it is to reboot (restarting Classic doesn't help). I hardly ever use Excel and it's not as annoying when it happens in BBEdit and Outlook Express.

Sorry for all the complaints in recent days. I am so frustrated with my computer. The latest thing is I can't play any DVDs even when I reboot because the version of DVD player that came with OS 9.1 (which I installed along with X) doesn't work with PCI G4s. I think I'm just unlucky.

[Edit: and I can't spell ]

[This message has been edited by tie (edited 05-27-2001).]

[Gametes]

It keeps on typing the number 3 over and over, and it's a complete pain. ... I tried to open a pdf in Photoshop and I can't, properly, because the number 3 fills up the image size field.

Actually, tie, I think this a "classic" case of our being caught in a temporal loop, and Data is sending a message to us from the past. You may have to do some action for which the number 3 will seem significant, but there is no way to know in advance what that is. Just accept all advice from Cmdr. Riker at face value.

PS - I can't believe I'm the only one lame enough to have picked up on this yet.

------------------
you are not your signature

[Brad Nelson]

Just to let you know somebody appreciates that obscure reference, Gametes.

[winky]

All your updates are belong to us ......

(Apple programmers snickering)

[cwasko]

I've had the repeating key thing happen to me as well. However, it was the '1' key and has only happened in Entourage. The odd thing is, when it did happen, I had OmniWeb running and when I quit OmniWeb, the key-repeat stopped. It hasn't happened since and I don't use OmniWeb anymore (this is not the reason I stopped using OmniWeb). I'm not sure if there is a reasonable correlation here, but I had thought it was odd.

[Hash]

Quote:
"Leave it alone. Let them do their job. "

Kosmo: do u see me standing on a way of Apple?
However, i want to know BASIC and TRUE facts about OSX from APPLE, the damn source. PPl in these forums (especially moderators: you doing a hell of job!) spend a lot of time and share their guesses and hints about OSX. Sometimes it helps. The problem that Apple keeps everything in dark about real reasons.

1. For example, why the damn OS is so slow and/or unresponsive? It definitely has lags in simple operations (window ops, clicks, etc). Scrud here says its not Finder fault, whole OS is slow and i agree. No matter what app u use, u get same lag. I want to know the reason of it from Apple. They created the mess first.

2. I twice added memory since March, from original 64 to 192 and lately to 320. YOu may say i got reasonable speed-everybody has own defintion of reasonable-however, what the real needs of OSX concerning RAM? Sure more is better but there must be trade-off between speed and cost-not everybody can have 1 GB and is it necessary? NO word from Apple too...

[mlknowle]

I've had a problem in classic similar to the "3333333333333" thing, except that I have had it type "jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj," but it only does so from time to time, and only in some apps (mainly First Class Client, it seems)

How about if apple added a slider in the sw update panel, so you could set how many updates you want; everyone would recive 10.1, etc, but only those who wanted would get 10.0.8, Epson Japan Drivers, and so forth...

[edddeduck]

Hash...

A few years ago...

There were no GUI's and the main computer magazine stated that a mouse was a flash in the pan and cusor keys did the job just as well.

A few years later....

A Magazine quoted "in the next 10 years most people's monitors will become grayscale A4 sized as colour is not needed by the average user.

few years later.....

500MB possibly 800MB is all anyone will ever need unless they work in the video market....

128MB ram is a waste of memory but if you do buy you can guarantee not to need memory for years...


Things Change and more memory and power is obviously needed but if you think that motarola told apple 4/5 years ago to expect 1.5Ghz G4's then this new system would not look as slow....

btw Darwin is FAST on speed tests....

So.... Its the quartz layer not OS X that is slow. None GUI calculations are alot faster.


And finally CHILL OUT time will solve you problems and with the size of the task apple have I think they have done an AMAZING job...

------------------
450DP/448MB/80GB/Rage/Apple 17"/Zip250/ZipCD/Epson740

ICQ 60617180

I Took The Red Pill

[Hash]

AMAZING stories of Quartz

Why the hell then they did not write good Quarz then??? What that 1000 engineers are doing? PLaying UT on OS9?

[The_Equivocator]

Originally posted by tie:
Sorry for all the complaints in recent days. I am so frustrated with my computer. The latest thing is I can't play any DVDs even when I reboot because the version of DVD player that came with OS 9.1 (which I installed along with X) doesn't work with PCI G4s. I think I'm just unlucky.

That's strange. I have a PCI G4 and when I installed 9.1 (onto a completely reformated hard drive), it automatically installed the hardware decoding drivers I needed along with the correct version of the DVD player. You should also be able to get the files you need from the G4 support area on Apple's website, or do a search on MacFixit.

I myself like the idea of frequent updates. Since it's obvious that OS X is still under developement I'd rather get the improvements quickly instead of waiting 6 months to a year for a big update. As to the rest as has been said before rumours are just that. If you take them for the gods honest truth all the time then you are the fool. There is one word for this.......impatience.

[krove]

Ok...is it just me or are a lot of these posts missing key verbs or words like 'is, are, etc'? What's up, I can hardly make sense of some of these people (so much so, I'm getting a headache trying to make sense of the words)! I'm outta this thread and on to a coherent one, plus, this one does nothing in way of a truly productive argument. There seems to me to be zero point to this discussion (just moaning, whining and complaining going on because things are out of your - OS X users - control). There's nothing you can do...

------------------

[tie]

Originally posted by The_Equivocator:
I have a PCI G4 and when I installed 9.1 (onto a completely reformated hard drive), it automatically installed the hardware decoding drivers I needed along with the correct version of the DVD player.

I think I'd lost an extension and the 9.1 installer required OS 9.0.4 (and not "or better") to install the DVD player again. I eventually found a hacked installer so it worked. (Plus I think it's now multi-region, for what it's worth ). Gotta love the software pirates who actually let you use your software.