[Kr0nos]

Originally Posted by marden

In my book it's not cool to attack America the way you do.

And in my book it's not cool for a person like yourself to be speaking an behalf of all Americans.

Satan knows there are more than enough good people living in the states who are even more at odds with your beliefs and the contemptible schmutz you are spreading than I am.

Just for the record, - I'n neither "anti-American", nor am I "anti-Christian". And furthermore, I think you and your ilk are hardly in a position to judge me on these issues.

[undotwa]

Originally Posted by Kr0nos

And in my book it's not cool for a person like yourself to be speaking an behalf of all Americans.

Satan knows there are more than enough good people living in the states who are even more at odds with your beliefs and the contemptible schmutz you are spreading than I am.

Just for the record, - I'n neither "anti-American", nor am I "anti-Christian". And furthermore, I think you and your ilk are hardly in a position to judge me on these issues.

Kronos, you should consider changing your signature.

[Mastrap]

This thread makes baby Jesus cry. And I am pretty sure baby Mohammed is not all that happy either.

Fundamentalism is always a bad thing, there is no exception to that rule. There are many ways that lead to salvation, there are many rivers flowing from the same source. Unfortunately humanity sees it fit to highlight the differences, many created by humanity itself, instead of concentrating on what we have in common. So rather than celebrating the common source we end up screaming that 'my water is holier than yours' and 'if you drink from your stream you'll go to hell'. What nonsense, what blindness, what tragedy.

This goes for fundamentalist Muslims, it goes for fundamentalist Christians. Even fundamentalist Buddhists, although the tend to be comparatively rare. It's hard to get riled about things when you look at life as an illusion.


One of my favorite teachings goes like this:

The Buddha stood by a mountain stream, bubbles rushing over rocks.
'Who are you?' asked the Buddha.
'I am a bubble' thousands of indignant voices shouted back.
'We are the stream' a few quiet voices whispered.

[Cody Dawg]

Wow.

What a really nice thread.

The Islamofacists are still at it - they still haven't found IslamofacistNN to post at?



Oh and plus one +1 on this:

marden

I think I've found something you will benefit from.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder at a Glance

Quote:
Proposed Amended Criteria for the Narcissistic Personality Disorder

Feels grandiose and self-important (e.g., exaggerates accomplishments, talents, skills, contacts, and personality traits to the point of lying, demands to be recognised as superior without commensurate achievements);

Is obsessed with fantasies of unlimited success, fame, fearsome power or omnipotence, unequalled brilliance (the cerebral narcissist), bodily beauty or sexual performance (the somatic narcissist), or ideal, everlasting, all-conquering love or passion;

Firmly convinced that he or she is unique and, being special, can only be understood by, should only be treated by, or associate with, other special or unique, or high-status people (or institutions);

Requires excessive admiration, adulation, attention and affirmation – or, failing that, wishes to be feared and to be notorious (Narcissistic Supply);

Feels entitled. Demands automatic and full compliance with his or her unreasonable expectations for special and favourable priority treatment;

Is "interpersonally exploitative", i.e., uses others to achieve his or her own ends;
Devoid of empathy. Is unable or unwilling to identify with, acknowledge, or accept the feelings, needs, preferences, priorities, and choices of others;

Constantly envious of others and seeks to hurt or destroy the objects of his or her frustration. Suffers from persecutory (paranoid) delusions as he or she believes that they feel the same about him or her and are likely to act similarly;

Behaves arrogantly and haughtily. Feels superior, omnipotent, omniscient, invincible, immune, "above the law", and omnipresent (magical thinking). Rages when frustrated, contradicted, or confronted by people he or she considers inferior to him or her and unworthy.

Hey everybody, do you think this fits Kron?

YES.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Wow.

What a really nice thread.

The Islamofacists are still at it - they still haven't found IslamofacistNN to post at?



Oh and plus one +1 on this:



YES.

Thanks and thanks and thanks and thanks.

(The last one was just in case I missed showing my gratitude. I wouldn't want to be mistaken for an ingrate you know. Living in the greatest land on Earth [yes, despite all of it's flaws] and having nothing good to say about it.)

I just found out I have to tend to some things elsewhere and will be gone for about a week. See you all when I get back.

May God continue to bless you all!

[Taliesin]

Originally Posted by DLQ2006

Allah must be so proud of what Islam has done for humanity in Africa where because of Islamic expansion by the sword, millions of African girls each year have their clitoris' partly or completely removed. Those are the ones that get off easy compared to the ones that (without the use of anesthesia) have their vulvas replaced with a wall of flesh from the pubis to the anus, with only a small hole left open. They get this cut open and redone for every childbirth. Of course there are those that get their genitals burned or scarred or even have the entire nerve cut out. ...

Hmm, the concept of an islamic expansion by sword is outdated and wrong, but even wronger is the association of female circumscision with Islam. Female genital mutilation is a very old practice predating Islam and embedded in subsaharn african cuture, but also in asian cultures espescially hindu ones.

While there are indeed islamic countries where female genital mutilation is practiced, like for example Egypt, where more than 90% of married women are circumsised, there are also many islamic countries where it isn't practiced at all or in lower rates than 1%, like in Saudi-Arabia, Morocco, Algeria, Lybia...:

Religious justifications are also given for the practice.
Often communities that cite a religious motivation
consider the practice a requirement to make a
girl spiritually pure. Among the Bambara in Mali, for
example, excision is called Seli ji, meaning ablution
or ceremonial washing.12
FGM/C is not prescribed by any religion. This is not,
however, the general perception, especially regarding
Islam. Although there is a theological branch of Islam
that supports FGM/C of the sunna type, the Koran contains
no text that requires the cutting of the female
external genitalia (see Box 4), and it is widely accepted
that the practice was current in Sudanese or Nubian
populations before Islam.13 Moreover, the majority of
Muslims around the world do not practice FGM/C.
There is no evidence of the practice in Saudi Arabia and
it is not found in several North African Muslim countries,
including Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia.

Source: http://www.unicef-icdc.org/publicati...gm-gb-2005.pdf

By the way there are also christian african countries where female genital mutilation is practiced, and an interesting example is Nigeria, where the north is mostly muslim, and the south mostly christian:

In Nigeria, for example,
national prevalence is 19 per cent; prevalence in the
southern regions reaches almost 60 per cent, while in
the north it is between zero and 2 per cent.

Source: http://www.unicef-icdc.org/publicati...gm-gb-2005.pdf

Since female genital mutilation has many bad health consequences as well as robbing women from their sexual enjoyment-capabilities, it is religiously a sin to commit that practice, and the UN-programme to get rid of that abusive practice should be supported with as much money as it needs.

Taliesin

[Taliesin]

Originally Posted by Kr0nos

Why would they though? He just quoted what somebody said 600! years ago.

Who cares what that old fart says anyway!?

I read the whole speech, and while the quoted passage is the only one directly and obviously offending prophet Muhammad and therefore all muslims, the rest of the speech is a thinly veiled attempt at trying to position catholicism on the side of rationality and Islam on the side of irrationality, and also a thinveiled attempt at differentiating God into a catholic God, that is bound by rationality and the islamic God who is supposedly bound by nothing.

It's clear and obvious why he did that, namely in order to prepare the ground for Germany to return to catholicism, since in the last decades catholicism was losing ground to secularism and atheism, but to do that on the back and cost of Islam, using wrong concepts and interpretations and topping it with the famous quote, is very bad form and manner.

Taliesin

[Cody Dawg]

Not really.

He represents God on earth and Germany is not only now ordaining rabbis for the first time, but Catholicism is making a comeback.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Please change your signature. I find it offensive.

Will do.

You don't find the content of your signature hate filled?

Hate filled, no. Provocative, aggressive and possibly offensive. Yes. Anyway, the signature will be changed because you asked and I have always respected you.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by DBursey

I certainly am. A sig is a banner you wave within this forum. Yours invokes hatred & intolerance (as well as bad grammar). I shouldn't have to see it in here. but neither do I like using the ignore thingie.

Signature changed.

Now, if all of you who were so offended by this signature would spend as much time on denouncing the hatred spewed on this forum in the way of calls for genocide, ethnic cleansing and general personal attacks on the few Muslims here this forum would actually have a chance of being useful for debate.

You may not realize it, but proclaiming such garbage certainly abets your own discredit and that of whatever cause you seek to advance.

Since I went public with being a Muslim on here my opinion has been worthless to MacNN members. I'm just a terrorist (supporter) in the eyes of the majority here.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by marden

If you show you love America maybe I'd see that I was wrong about what I'm saying. But so far all I see from you is contempt for my country and a desire to say almost anything you can to drag America through the mud and make Americans feel guilty or bad about ourselves and that is either an act that comes from a personality disorder or it is a intentional effort to hurt America.

I just don't like the idea that we have to put up with you with our hands tied behind our backs because of freedom of sperech. That is what the terrorists did, they used our freedoms against us and I see you doing the same thing. So, either you are an enemy of America because you have contempt for us or you are an enemey of America because you have a disorder.

When you say your smart ass comments to a democrat or a liberal and influence them to say the same thing it's not cool. The constitution says you have a right to say what you want. Ok. Fine. But I have the right to speak my mind too. And I think some of the things you say stink. But I won't attack you, I will inform people what I think you are up to so they won't sidle up to you because they think you are smart or cool.

In my book it's not cool to attack America the way you do.

WW!!!

I have been reading your posts in this thread--in particular on page 5--and am amazed at the way
in which you think Constitutional rights should be abrogated for the safety of the country. In my
years on this forum there have been very few Americans willing to come out and admit to wanting
to silence the speech of those with which they disagree. But here you are actively suggesting that
be the case with Kr0nos. I find that mind-boggling.

Our Constitutional rights are paramount to our existence as a country. The first time you suggest
restricting someone's free-speech rights because they are an atheist you have advocated for a
dissolution of those Constitutional rights that define us as Americans. Don't you get that? Freedom
of speech is of paramount importance to what defines this country. If you take away certains groups
rights to free speech you diminish this country and what it stands for.

So what if you don't like the things Kr0nos says; He has every right to say them. And whether or
not he is an atheist does not effect the degree to which that right is guaranteed to him. He has the
right to free speech guaranteed to him whether he is an atheist, diabolist, or fundamentalist. His
right to free speech guarantees your right to free speech and vice versa. The moment we as a
nation begin to "rank" individuals or groups right to free speech (i.e.: some individuals/groups have
more right to free speech than others) we no longer are that country we all hold in such high esteem.

Kr0nos has every right to say hateful things about America. And not only should you not advocate
for removing his right to say hateful things about America, you should advocate for his continued
right to say such things. His right to say hateful things about America guarantees your right
to say laudatory things about America. His right to say hateful things is EQUAL to your right to say
laudatory things. Your right to free speech is NOT more important than his. And if you want it
to be, if you want the right to free speech to be "ranked" within America by who is committing the
speech, I will fight you with every ounce of my strength to prevent that from happening. If that
scenario comes to pass then the America that exists based on the Constitution will have disappeared.

[PB2K]

What if the pope gets assasinated by a fundamentalist muslim, what will happen then? a few public outcries for reason, without pointing fingers? if you ask me, what the pope said was not so unreasonable after all. But it's followed by irrationality all over the muslim world. If it's like this? what will happen in the future?

[pooka]

Originally Posted by PB2K

If it's like this? what will happen in the future?

World War II 1/4.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Taliesin

I read the whole speech, and while the quoted passage is the only one directly and obviously offending prophet Muhammad and therefore all muslims, the rest of the speech is a thinly veiled attempt at trying to position catholicism on the side of rationality and Islam on the side of irrationality, and also a thinveiled attempt at differentiating God into a catholic God, that is bound by rationality and the islamic God who is supposedly bound by nothing.

After reading the Pope's speech, that is not my interpretation at all. Benedicto XVI gave a beautiful speech on theology in his old university. Simple as that.

It's clear and obvious why he did that, namely in order to prepare the ground for Germany to return to catholicism, since in the last decades catholicism was losing ground to secularism and atheism, but to do that on the back and cost of Islam, using wrong concepts and interpretations and topping it with the famous quote, is very bad form and manner.

Taliesin

Boy oh boy. The Vatican has hatched a masterplan against secularism and atheism in Germany and Benedicto XVI is sowing the seeds by giving theology lectures in Regensburg?

You are over-dramatizing the obvious. Of course the Vatican is trying to get more people to embrace it. That part of its daily business.

Most of the time, musulmanes are playing the victim.

"Stop judging that you may not be judged. For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you. Why do you notice the splinter from your brother's eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye? How can you say to your brother; Let me remove that splinter from your eye, while the wooden beam is in your eye? You hypocrite, remove the wooden beam from your eye first, then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother's eye.' Gospel of Matthew 7: 1-5

Wise words. Words the musulmanes should live by, like us Christians try to.

V

[yakkiebah]

Yeah we need a new conspiracy theory. Taliesin has made a good start but to make things a bit more juicy maybe throw in some Zionism here and there.

Edit: Never mind, it already exists!

Two Iranian hardline newspapers on Sunday suggested there were signs of an Israeli-US plot behind Benedict's remarks, which have created a wave of anger across the Muslim world.
The daily Jomhuri Islami said Israel and the United States - the Islamic republic's two arch-enemies - could have dictated the comments to distract attention from the resistance of the Shiite militant group Hezbollah to Israel's offensive on Lebanon.

"The reality is that if we do not consider Pope Benedict XVI to be ignorant of Islam, then his remarks against Islam are an [indication] that the Zionists and the Americans have written [for him] and have submitted to him."

"The American and the Zionist aim is to undermine the glorious triumph of Islam's children of Lebanese Hezbollah, which annulled the undefeatable legend of the Israeli army and foiled the Satanic and colonialist American plot," it said.

Fellow hardline daily Kayhan, whose editor-in-chief is appointed by supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said there were signs of Israeli interference aimed at creating conflict between Islam and Christianity.

"There are many signs that show that Pope Benedict XVI's remarks regarding the great prophet of Islam are a link in a connected chain of a Zionist-American project," it said.

"The project, which was created and executed by the Zionist minority, aims at creating confrontation between the followers of the two great divine religions."

Mwahaha.

[PB2K]

"Stop judging that you may not be judged. For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you. Why do you notice the splinter from your brother's eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye? How can you say to your brother; Let me remove that splinter from your eye, while the wooden beam is in your eye? You hypocrite, remove the wooden beam from your eye first, then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother's eye.' Gospel of Matthew 7: 1-5

when people stop using wood, will they still understand the bible?

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah

Will do.

Hate filled, no. Provocative, aggressive and possibly offensive. Yes. Anyway, the signature will be changed because you asked and I have always respected you.

Thank you very much.

[PB2K]

an Italian nun was just murdered in somalia

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by PB2K

an Italian nun was just murdered in somalia

I don't think people appreciate the threat that nuns pose. /SARCASM]

Seriously, what were they thinking?

Link to article

She was a worker at a Children's hospital. She also had a bodygaurd that was killed in the attack with her.

[Nicko]

Somalia is practically a warzone, no foreigners should be there....even nuns.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Nicko

Somalia is practically a warzone, no foreigners should be there....even nuns.

Actually, if anyone should be there it should be nuns. There are a lot of people who aren't fighting and don't have any way to escape it. They need help from somewhere. It will probably have to be from outsiders. Nuns have dedicated their lives to helping people.

[Kerrigan]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Thank you very much.

See, as much as we detest VW's approach to religion and politics (and vice versa), civilized dialog is still possible.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

See, as much as we detest VW's approach to religion and politics (and vice versa), civilized dialog is still possible.

It's certainly no reason to hate. We'd be hypocrites to do so.

[Kr0nos]

Originally Posted by undotwa

Kronos, you should consider changing your signature.

What do you think I should change it to?

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Kr0nos

What do you think I should change it to?

One that's less hypocritical to what you say in your posts.

Originally Posted by Kr0nos

...nor am I "anti-Christian"...

[undotwa]

Originally Posted by Kr0nos

What do you think I should change it to?

I don't really mind... the picture itself is quite distracting.

[Kr0nos]

Originally Posted by PB2K

when people stop using wood, will they still understand the bible?

Problem is, a lot of people stop using their wood, because they think they understand the bible.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

And for VW: I understand why you converted to Islam. Today's world of environment-destroying materialistic consumerism leaves people with a profound yearning to recapture the lost spiritualism of days gone by. People want that "beautiful soul" of older days.

But taking a fundamentalist stance with regards to your beliefs is not going to accomplish that. Much of the bitterness which characterizes your brand of Islam as well as other fundamentalist beliefs in Islam and Christianity, comes from a tacit understanding that your beliefs are becoming artifacts, something which is unbearable to think about. Fundamentalist beliefs are fossilizing, and we all know this, despite the fact that they seem to have so much vitality at present.

My main point is that clinging to a strong religious identity will not give you what you're looking for. Defining yourself in opposition to the West may seem satisfying at first, but deep down it gives you nothing. I'm sure there is a God, but do you really think that his presence in his believers manifests itself in such a disagreeable way? Do you really think that divine grace manifests itself in a bitterness towards Christians?

I say the same thing about Salty who, like you, is staunchly commited to seeking truth in ancient doctrines, but who just ends up being unusually obsessed with homosexuality and irritatingly vituperative towards anyone who disagrees with his beliefs.

Good post but fortunately not correct.

The reason I reverted to Islam is simple. I believed there was a God. I believed in the message of Moses and Jesus but didn't believe that Jesus was God. I started studying various religions and it wasn't until I found Islam that I found a religion that I could wholeheartedly agree with. That was all.

And the way I've been acting on here lately is simply that. An act. There are so few left here that one can have an honest and respectful debate with that I simply didn't see it as worth being "me" on here.

But I'm gonna try now to only focus on those worth debating with. See where that gets us.

[Taliesin]

Originally Posted by voodoo

After reading the Pope's speech, that is not my interpretation at all. Benedicto XVI gave a beautiful speech on theology in his old university. Simple as that.

It might not be your interpretation, but it's obvious nonetheless. The pope was basically saying that the greek thought of rationality and the God of christianity are one, that christianity and greek thought have created Europe, and that Islam and the God-concept it follows is missing that greek influx of rationality and therefore...

Of course his ideas about Islam, the Quran and God are wrong, based on questionable sources: a) Theodor Koury's quotation of the byzantine medeaval emperor and b) theological interpretations of an islamist(!!).

Originally Posted by voodoo

Boy oh boy. The Vatican has hatched a masterplan against secularism and atheism in Germany and Benedicto XVI is sowing the seeds by giving theology lectures in Regensburg?

You are over-dramatizing the obvious. Of course the Vatican is trying to get more people to embrace it. That part of its daily business.

Most of the time, musulmanes are playing the victim.

Masterplan? Why not, it's the pope, and he is german, so he obviously feels the need to bring Germany back to salvation. I wouldn't have a problem with that, if he had refrained from using cheap shots against prophet Muhammad and using wrong concepts and interpretation based on questionable single sources, about the description of God by the Quran.

I don't know what you mean by "musulmanes" (is that some mideaval description for muslims? I remember some others like Moors, Sarazenes or mohemadans, all wrong), but muslims are indeed the victim in this case.

Originally Posted by voodoo

Wise words. Words the muslims should live by, like us Christians try to.

V

Indeed, these words are indeed wise, and actually there are quite a few muslim preachers who are offending christianity and judaism regularly, so I guess you have a point there.

Taliesin

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Thank you very much.

No problem.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Kr0nos

You can read, can't you?

Kronos this is you being dishonest again with your annoying banter.

I explained to you what I was doing there.

Yet you seem to think you know my intentions better than I do. Which is silly.

Stop the silliness. You were simply wrong.

Originally Posted by marden

I think I've found something you will benefit from.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder at a Glance

Heh. to a T.

[Kerrigan]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah

I started studying various religions and it wasn't until I found Islam that I found a religion that I could wholeheartedly agree with. That was all.

To some extent I agree that Islamic doctrine is more believable in certain areas.

Out of sheer curiousity, I was listening to a Southern Baptist minister who was talking about ways to approach to Muslims. The interviewer asked him "How do you answer Muslims' criticism that the Trinity is a polytheistic doctrine?" The minister's answer to that was unfortunately very flimsy and unconvincing. Even though he devotes his life to preaching the Gospel in Muslim countries, he sounded almost as if he had no way to answer one of Islam's biggest objections to Christianity.

Do you think Christianity is a polytheistic religion?

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Taliesin

I don't know what you mean by "musulmanes" (is that some mideaval description for muslims? I remember some others like Moors, Sarazenes or mohemadans, all wrong), but muslims are indeed the victim in this case.

No, no hidden meaning. 'Musulmán' is just Spanish for 'muslim' and 'musulmanes' is plural.

I sometimes confuse words between languages if they are similar. Perdone.

V

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Do you think Christianity is a polytheistic religion?

No.

Look at it like this. H20 can be water, gas or liquid.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton

..wait. Marden's abe, right? Or mojo? Or whatever he is?

greg

Starting to think you're right. At first, marden didn't sound quite like Mojo/Abe. Still doesn't; though there is enough similar that I'm starting to think marden is one of the less common Mojo/Abe writers.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

Starting to think you're right. At first, marden didn't sound quite like Mojo/Abe. Still doesn't; though there is enough similar that I'm starting to think marden is one of the less common Mojo/Abe writers.

Who cares? BTW vmarks already said they didn't match.

[Kerrigan]

Originally Posted by Kevin

No.

Look at it like this. H20 can be water, gas or liquid.

I know that we don't think it is. But in Islam there has long been a belief that Christianity is polytheistic, due in large part to propaganda claiming that Mary, Joseph, and Jesus were all regarded as separate Gods in Christianity.

So I just wanted to know what vW thought.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

But in Islam there has long been a belief that Christianity is polytheistic, due in large part to propaganda claiming that Mary, Joseph, and Jesus were all regarded as separate Gods in Christianity.

Wow they are? Not in the Bible I read.

If someone believes that, they are simply wrong I guess.

[Buckaroo]

Originally Posted by marden

“Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.”

He is only speaking the truth. Muhammad was truely evil.

[PB2K]

now all i need is an explanation why i see a sword in sayf-allah's sig

what do you need a sword for?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by PB2K

now all i need is an explanation why i see a sword in sayf-allah's sig

what do you need a sword for?

Obviously for rattling.

[DLQ2006]

Originally Posted by idjeff

Torture? Like beheadings? Strung up on bridges?

Humiliation? OMG! Cut the lights...close the theatre for God's sake! You must've grown up in a society that feels timeout is the best punishment.

I guess to people like him/her, being able to get information out of terrorists in order to save American lives doesn't count for anything. He/she I guess would rather Americans die, be burned head to toe, or lose limbs than to see a terrorist humiliated or made uncomfortable. If I were in charge and and could extract info from these animals that would save even one American life, you better bet there would be some pain involved to make them talk.

The poster wants to downplay what the terrorists do by bringing up the so called atrocities America has committed, while not grasping the huge disparity between what we do, why, and how and what they do, why, and how. Then has the audacity to turn it around and accuse those of us who point out those differences of trying to downplay the so called atrocities committed by America. There is no comparison whatsoever. Our culture IS superior to any in any one of the Islamic nations and anybody who can't see that has blinders on and is filled with hate for this country and our culture. Why they don't go live in one of the places they spend an awful lot of time apologizing for, I don't understand. It's not only marginally better here, it's so far better here than in any one of those Islamic nations that even discussing it is just ridiculous.

[idjeff]

Originally Posted by DLQ2006

I guess to people like him/her, being able to get information out of terrorists in order to save American lives doesn't count for anything. He/she I guess would rather Americans die, be burned head to toe, or lose limbs than to see a terrorist humiliated or made uncomfortable. If I were in charge and and could extract info from these animals that would save even one American life, you better bet there would be some pain involved to make them talk.

The poster wants to downplay what the terrorists do by bringing up the so called atrocities America has committed, while not grasping the huge disparity between what we do, why, and how and what they do, why, and how. Then has the audacity to turn it around and accuse those of us who point out those differences of trying to downplay the so called atrocities committed by America. There is no comparison whatsoever. Our culture IS superior to any in any one of the Islamic nations and anybody who can't see that has blinders on and is filled with hate for this country and our culture. Why they don't go live in one of the places they spend an awful lot of time apologizing for, I don't understand. It's not only marginally better here, it's so far better here than in any one of those Islamic nations that even discussing it is just ridiculous.

Preach it brother/sister...

[DLQ2006]

And criticizing the Bush regime and neo-con policies in NO WAY condones the actions of militant muslims and/or terrorists. That's just such a non-argument.

Trying to turn a discussion about terrorism into a discussion about how horrible The U.S. and the Bush Administration is, using Abu Graib and Gitmo as an example, is so asinine that anybody who isn't a brain-washed zombie just regurgitating far left talking points can see the tactic being used for what it is.

Again, NOBODY!!! is condoning the actions of terrorists.

No, what those of your ilk do, is to use far more evasive verbiage to hide behind when confronted, as if you are fooling anybody. That way, when you are challenged, you can
object to those challenges on the grounds that they are fallacious.

Why wait that long? Or do you actually believe that only the most heinous crimes against humanity are worth denouncing, and anything that falls short isn't even worse criticizing? That's just stupid.

What is stupid is trying to excuse vile and inexcusable behavior by pointing out behaviour that is far more benign and consistent with normal human conduct of those fighting a war for the survival of their nation. What is even more stupid is to equate the current and past actions of the terrorists with something America might do in the future. And pertaining to your last statement in the above quote, I do believe that the most heinous crimes against humanity should be denounced. I also believe those actions that do not nearly rise to that level, should be kept in perspective. That is precisely the reason we should be focusing discussions and condemnations on the terrorists rather than trying to constantly frame the discussions as moral equivalences between what we are doing and what they are dong. You might not like being challenged when you try to frame the debate using a moral equivalence framework, but that's too bad isn't it?

Bullshit! UTIs due to lack of circumcision are extremely rare. Again, - a non-argument.

I base my opinion on the number of patients I've had to take care of requiring circumcisions related to UTT's. I can assure you, it is not rare. I also base it on what I was taught in nursing school about the skin under the foreskin being a breeding ground for bacteria. That doesn't mean every uncircumsized guy will have recurring UTI's. Trying to equate the minor procedure of male circumcision done for health and asthetic reasons with tortuous female mutilations for deranged beliefs about womens' sexuality is beyond absurd.

"We"? We are the one's who should be a living example of how our culture is completely superior and more humane in just about any and every way imaginable. Unfortunately, some of us fall short."

Our culture IS a living example that is completely superior and more humane in just about any and every way imaginable, despite the actions by some that fall short. The fact that you can't see that and believe we somehow need to rise to a higer level of humanity to look down on Islamic cultures in good conscience is just irrational on your part.

[Kr0nos]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Kronos this is you being dishonest again with your annoying banter.

I explained to you what I was doing there.

You didn't "explain" anything. All you did was lie about the intent (which was CLEARLY made in the spirit of downplaying the importance of these atrocities) of your post (as you usually do when somebody shoves the "proof" that you demand right back in yer face).

It's not like you haven't done this sort of stuff brfore.

Of course you'll come back with some condescending sh1t and more lies. But it'll be too late.

Originally Posted by Kevin

Heh. to a T.

Glad to see you've joined their little circle-jerk of insecurity and cowerdice. Here's a tissue.

[Kr0nos]

Originally Posted by DLQ2006

Our culture IS superior to any in any one of the Islamic nations…

Except for people like yourself, zimpo, marden, idjeff etc. and, unfortunately, quite a few other morons, who are our own version of the Taliban.

Congratulations for being the scorn of western society. You people are what makes America so much less than it could be.

[idjeff]

Originally Posted by Kr0nos

Except for people like yourself, zimpo, marden, idjeff etc. and, unfortunately, quite a few other morons, who are our own version of the Taliban.

Congratulations for being the scorn of western society. You people are what makes America so much less than it could be.

What's with the personal attack?

[voodoo]

OK, whether by intention or accident, Benedicto XVI put the muslims between a rock and a hard place with one little quote.

By suggesting that Islam was violent, muslims couldn't really riot like they did because of the Mohammed cartoons. Then they'd prove his point.

This is one teflon Pope. Nothing sticks to him.

Muslims can't riot riot without proving his excellency's point. Oh dear. What a conundrum.

His apology to the Muslims was no apology for what he said, but only that he was sorry that Muslims became all offended, for that was not his intention.

Originally Posted by His Excellency, Pope Benedicto XVI

At this time, I wish also to add that I am deeply sorry for the reactions in some countries to a few passages of my address at the University of Regensburg, which were considered offensive to the sensibility of Muslims.

These in fact were a quotation from a medieval text, which do not in any way express my personal thought.

Teflon Pope.

V

[Cody Dawg]

Teflon Pope by Voodoo™.

I like it!

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by DLQ2006

There is no comparison whatsoever. Our culture IS superior to any in any one of the Islamic nations and anybody who can't see that has blinders on and is filled with hate for this country and our culture. Why they don't go live in one of the places they spend an awful lot of time apologizing for, I don't understand. It's not only marginally better here, it's so far better here than in any one of those Islamic nations that even discussing it is just ridiculous.

If the US decides to 'reinterpret' the geneva convention to allow torture, they will be NO BETTER than their perceived enemies.