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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > we need more liberals in here

we need more liberals in here (Page 2)
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Macrobat
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Oct 19, 2006, 09:46 PM
 
I think you should be recruiting more sexual predators to the forum.

Then you would have something in common.

Possibly, but Slick Willy is too busy with trying to preserve the Clinton Legacy these days.
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On the ISG: "The nation's capital hasn't seen such concentrated wisdom in one place since Paris Hilton dined alone at the Hooters on Connecticut Avenue." - John Podhoretz
     
Doofy
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Oct 19, 2006, 09:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - View Post
Anyone with a differing view than me is an idiot!!!
No. Anyone who follows two mutually incompatible philosophies is an idiot.

Go on, analyse the "left-libertarian" position. See if you can make any logical sense out of it without it becoming just plain old socialism.
     
- - e r i k - -
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Oct 19, 2006, 10:26 PM
 
You are right. They are pretty kooky

[ fb ] [ flickr ] [] [scl] [ last ] [ plaxo ]
     
yakkiebah
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Oct 20, 2006, 08:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
Often enough liberals are "right-leaning", but true liberalism is not. True liberalism embraces economic and social freedom. Luckily some true liberals still exist, e. g. the Freiburger Kreis - Wikipedia in Germany.
The "right-leaning" part of "true-liberalism" *is* the economic part. Both economic and social freedom is liberalism. The social freedom part is what left-wing and liberals have in common.

When voodoo says right-leaning and freemarket it actually means the same thing.
( Last edited by yakkiebah; Oct 20, 2006 at 09:18 AM. Reason: "left-wing" & "true-liberalism" correction.)
     
TETENAL
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Oct 20, 2006, 08:53 AM
 
I didn't say "left-wing-liberalism". I said "true liberalism". So what are you lecturing me on?
     
Dakar²
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Oct 20, 2006, 08:54 AM
 
Isn't that essentially the view libertarians claim to hold?
     
yakkiebah
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Oct 20, 2006, 09:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
I didn't say "left-wing-liberalism". I said "true liberalism". So what are you lecturing me on?
You are right. I meant "true-liberalism". I'll correct it.

But my message is basically the same, true-liberalism is right-leaning in this regard.
     
yakkiebah
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Oct 20, 2006, 09:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar² View Post
Isn't that essentially the view libertarians claim to hold?
Yes but we're talking about Euro-liberalism. Of course in Europe all major parties are pretty centric regarding to their ideologies. So in that respect none them are "true".
     
Dakar²
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Oct 20, 2006, 09:37 AM
 
Ah, ok.
     
Zeeb
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Oct 20, 2006, 09:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
I didn't say "left-wing-liberalism". I said "true liberalism". So what are you lecturing me on?
OMG, is everyone on here taking political science classes right now? "left wing liberalism", "true liberalism", "neo-conservative" blah blah blah. hot air. You guys are worse than the politicians themselves.
     
Shaddim
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Oct 20, 2006, 01:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy View Post
Yeah, but it ain't easy being Spliffdaddy. I have to work at it. I wonder if I'm the only person here who is portraying a character. Surely not everyone is being themselves? This is the internet...you're supposed to be acting. Spliffdaddy is the guy that follows the conservative 'party line' and hates liberals. Spliffdaddy isn't me. Occasionally I slip-up and post as myself, but that always comes across as soft and mushy and it ruins the Spliffdaddy mystique. See, lately I'm messing him up. I forget that I'm supposed to be acting. See, when I'm playing Spliffdaddy nobody can get to me. I'm immune to direct attacks. I wish other members could distance themselves from their screen name. Maybe not take things so personally. We lost some good folks because they portrayed themselves. Simey left, ya know. They got to him. Lerk is back, so maybe there's hope. Spliffdaddy will try to run him off. Test him. But the real me is glad to see him around.

This is entertainment. I do learn things here, however. So, it's both educational and entertaining. I hope it's the same for everybody else. The real me loves people in general. The liberals, conservatives, foreigners, and even yankees (and now featuring our once-removed conspiracy theorist). This place would suck without them. I enjoy a good argument. I absolutely love being proved wrong. That's probably my sole reason for being here. When I think I'm right, hell I'm usually right. It's a breath of fresh air to be wrong every now and then...makes me feel young again.

Maybe I'll let Spliffdaddy evolve into a new character. Something that requires less work on my part. He can't be a moderate, though. Being a moderate is a cop-out. Too easy. I've been thinking about a deep south backwoods hillbilly character. Which is what Spliffdaddy was supposed to be. A Coors drinking NASCAR loving gool ol boy. Or maybe he should be a she. I'll figure something out. All I know is I'm ending Spliffdaddy as you know him.
No kidding. It takes a lot of energy to keep up such a persona, which is why I needed to take a break for a while. MacNStein is difficult to maintain on a daily basis, too much wrath and testosterone. Plus, pretending that I support Bush is wearing thin (I've actually been very disappointed in him since the Iraq invasion).
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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BlueSky
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Oct 20, 2006, 01:21 PM
 
Ah, I was wondering how some would eventually disavow Bush. This is getting good.
     
Spliffdaddy  (op)
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Oct 20, 2006, 01:25 PM
 
Everyone dislikes Bush. But for only 2 different reasons.

Some people think he's too conservative and others think he isn't conservative enough.

I think he's acting like a liberal - and that's not what I wanted him to do.
     
Dakar²
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Oct 20, 2006, 01:30 PM
 
That's because his administration is a weird paradox of moves.
     
Shaddim
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Oct 20, 2006, 01:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by BlueSky View Post
Ah, I was wondering how some would eventually disavow Bush. This is getting good.
I've slipped a few times, but largely been able to keep it going for a while. However, I'm not fond of his evangelical posturing.

By and large, however, I'd still vote for him over Kerry, though a more Liberal Republican (McCain or Powell) would have likely gotten my vote in the primary.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Dakar²
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Oct 20, 2006, 01:38 PM
 
I'd vote for Powell. I'm still disappointed with him for going to bat for the administration for the Iraq War when I got the feeling he didn't believe what he was saying, though.
     
Shaddim
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Oct 20, 2006, 01:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy View Post
Everyone dislikes Bush. But for only 2 different reasons.

Some people think he's too conservative and others think he isn't conservative enough.

I think he's acting like a liberal - and that's not what I wanted him to do.
Exactly. He's been far too indecisive and weak.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
Zeeb
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Oct 20, 2006, 01:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by MacNStein View Post
No kidding. It takes a lot of energy to keep up such a persona, which is why I needed to take a break for a while. MacNStein is difficult to maintain on a daily basis, too much wrath and testosterone. Plus, pretending that I support Bush is wearing thin (I've actually been very disappointed in him since the Iraq invasion).
But if you guys stop pretending to be Bushies what will we talk about?

Though, perhaps you weren't exactly acting but exploring a different version of yourselves?

All I know is that Brad Pitt pretty much acts like himself in every movie he's in.
     
Dakar²
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Oct 20, 2006, 01:58 PM
 
More liek Matt Damon
     
art_director
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Oct 20, 2006, 02:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy View Post
I think he's acting like a liberal - and that's not what I wanted him to do.
In what respect(s)?
     
Spliffdaddy  (op)
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Oct 20, 2006, 04:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by art_director View Post
In what respect(s)?
Basically it comes down to two things:

Border security. Need I say more?

Waging a politically-correct war in Iraq...when the purpose of war is to kill people and break things - not rebuild the country and make friends. It took 4 days to remove the Iraqi army and the Iraqi government. We should have left at that point. Then, if another dictatorship was formed in Iraq, we could have gone in there and removed it in another 4 days. Repeat as often as necessary until the results are to our liking.


There are many other things that I'm not happy about, but the blame doesn't fall on our president. It could be argued that border security is an issue that the president cannot solve by himself. But the wimpy way he's handling the war in Iraq is entirely his fault. After all he is commander in chief.
     
art_director
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Oct 20, 2006, 04:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy View Post
Basically it comes down to two things:

Border security. Need I say more?

Waging a politically-correct war in Iraq...when the purpose of war is to kill people and break things - not rebuild the country and make friends. It took 4 days to remove the Iraqi army and the Iraqi government. We should have left at that point. Then, if another dictatorship was formed in Iraq, we could have gone in there and removed it in another 4 days. Repeat as often as necessary until the results are to our liking.


There are many other things that I'm not happy about, but the blame doesn't fall on our president. It could be argued that border security is an issue that the president cannot solve by himself. But the wimpy way he's handling the war in Iraq is entirely his fault. After all he is commander in chief.
Are you serious about border security? His current position is nothing new. In fact, it's been his charge all along. You don't become gov of Texas by pissing off Hispanics.

A politically-correct war in Iraq? Which part do you consider pollitically-correct? The civilian rapes and murders? The torture? The lack of proper armor for our troops? Standing behind Rumsfeld -- who, BTW, has been blasted time and again by most every senior military commander to retire since that pitiful excuse for a war began?

He never intended to go in, remove Saddam and leave. If you think he did you haven't been paying attention.
     
Spliffdaddy  (op)
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Oct 20, 2006, 04:29 PM
 
The "Politically correct" part of the war began when we stopped killing people and breaking things - and started 'rebuilding'. None of the alleged rapes and torture would have had an opportunity to happen if we didn't start using soldiers to do jobs they weren't trained to do.

Kill people, break things - *then* get out and send the UN into Iraq to do what they do best. Rape and torure.
     
art_director
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Oct 20, 2006, 04:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy View Post
The "Politically correct" part of the war began when we stopped killing people and breaking things - and started 'rebuilding'. None of the alleged rapes and torture would have had an opportunity to happen if we didn't start using soldiers to do jobs they weren't trained to do.

Kill people, break things - *then* get out and send the UN into Iraq to do what they do best. Rape and torure.
You mean the same UN we told to leave Iraq so we could go get George's imaginary WMD?

When Bush ran for President he stated the desire to invade Iraq. I think many around the world agreed we needed to do something about Saddam. But, instead opf letting the UN inspectors finish their job we told them to get out so we could attack. That was a mistake.

Today we have (and these numbers could be off but they're in the ballpark) approximately 37,000 troops in Afghanistan -- remember, the country where AQ was HQ'd and Osama was / is? In Iraq we have 120,000 troops -- NOT the place where AQ and Osama was / is (at least it's unlikely.).

Bush used 9-11 to settle a score rather than to rout terrorists. Now he's just created a new generation of terrorists. But hey, what does he care, he gets free protection for the rest of his life. Screw the rest of us.
     
Spliffdaddy  (op)
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Oct 20, 2006, 06:04 PM
 
heh. The UN is essentially worthless. They spent 12 years trying to fix Iraq's problems and then they still didn't know if WMDs existed there. I mean, they said they were inspecting weapons - right? And they were upset when Saddam wouldn't allow their weapons inspectors to inspect weapons. So, when I say we should send in the UN it ain't because I believe they'll actually accomplish anything. I say it as sort of a joke.

Anyhow, you hafta admit that the world fears us more than they did 5 years ago. And that's a good thing. They just don't have any idea how we might react to events and circumstances. A scheme that works wonders for North Korea.

Don't misunderstand me. I still believe going to war with Iraq was a damn good idea. What happened after the 4th day was the stupid part. If they deserve killing, then how the hell do they deserve to have their country rebuilt by us, too? Geez. If it doesn't fall into the categories of 'breaking things' or 'killing people' - then our soldiers shouldn't be doing it.
     
 
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