[m a d r a]

thought non UK users might want to know that BBC radio 5 in the UK is debating windoze XP at the moment and it's actually getting a bit of a pounding from the studio 'experts' who are criticising it's price, fischer price looks, size [apparently over 1gig!] and 'useless' applications which other software companies do better.

they've also been reading out quite a few emails from OS X users pointing out that microsoft are ripping apple off again. one of the resident experts said in answer to a question from the host as to whether XP would be a good system for a beginner that personally he'd recommend a mac as it was more stable better looking and easier to use.

even the luddite host said "oh. you mean things like itunes and imusic from apple?"

i tried to throw my own spanner in the works by submitting the following, which was read out on air [thus relaunching my showbiz career! ]...

the real issue with windoze XP, and one which so far hasn't been mentioned by any of your correspondents, is going to be that microsoft will not sell you the operating system but rather lease you it, meaning you will have to pay an annual fee to microsoft to be able to keep using windoze XP. this is the first time an operating system has been licensed in this way and is causing a lot of controversy on the web at the minute.

one of the studio 'experts' agreed with this and went on to point out the fact that you would also have to get in touch with microsoft to re-license the software if you bought a new computer and wanted to move your OS on to that machine.

so all in all not a bad morning's kicking for XP. the shame is that the idiots'll still buy it in their droves anyway.

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: m a d r a ]

[Group51]

Well Done Madra!

Good to see my license fee going to good use.

Incidentally, for those outside the kingdom, R5 is streamed live in .ra format.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/console.shtml

[xi_hyperon]

Hey, way to go! I'm sure that a lot of people don't realize the conditions set for using XP and its successors. MS dictates these terms and makes no secret of it, but you're right, people will take it in the wazoo anyway.

[lythari]

Good job bringing up the licencing issues. From what you said it seems like the program entirely missed the main problems with XP : activation and passport (which together with .NET seems to position MS as a gatekeeper to internet content).

Also, with .NET it seems that MS is trying to position itself as a service provider. It's not inconceivable that several years down the line, MS will be making people rent windows from them for a montly fee rather than buy it themselves. This is made even more likely by dwindly PC sales, which will lead MS to find other ways of maintaining their profits.

[Agent69]

lythari,

I think that you are right in regards to renting. One way to increase sales would be for MS to make its licenses expire after a certain period of use.

Having said that, I will admit to having tried XP and, while it's no Mac OS X, it wasn't that bad either. I won't be purchasing it, however, as it is not a compelling upgrade for most Windows 2000 users.


Agent69

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: Agent69 ]

[Gee4orce]

Madra - urban Mac OS X Guerilla - strikes deftly at the heart of Microsoft's evil empire. He stalks the isles of PCWorld hunting down his mortal enemies, dispatching them with his newly-acquired Developer Tools CD*

Good work there ! XP's got a trashing on Breakfast this morning too, with experts saying that there's basically no reason to upgrade for businesses. The Register is having a good go at it too.

[* did ya get it ?]

[oranjdisc]

I don't know how many of you watch CNBC in here, but I was watching it early this morning and they had Bill Gates being interviewd by Mark Haines. It was really, really interesting. Haines asked a lot of tough questions, and even scoffed when Gates said that 'Microsoft was a market leader because of their innovative products' (I'm paraphrasing). Haines chuckled and replied, "Well, I think there's plenty of people who will disagree with you."

If that wasn't enough, my favorite part was this (again paraphrasing) >>

Haines: There are a number of complaints surrounding XP because of the fact that it ties in with with many of the things that got you in trouble with the justice department in the first place, namely forcing users to use the MSN web portal page, the instant messenger, Windows Media...

Gates: Complaints from who?

Haines: From users.

Gates: Users? Oh no, we don't get any complaints...

Haines: Oh come on, Mr. Gates.

Gates: No, our users don't complain...

Haines: Well I'm a user, so you're hearing it from me.

Hehe...it was really something. I wish I had taped it.

[Red Commet]

Can I download this interview somewhere??

[Nonsuch]

Originally posted by oranjdisc:
<STRONG>
Haines: There are a number of complaints surrounding XP because of the fact that it ties in with with many of the things that got you in trouble with the justice department in the first place, namely forcing users to use the MSN web portal page, the instant messenger, Windows Media...

Gates: Complaints from who?

Haines: From users.

Gates: Users? Oh no, we don't get any complaints...
</STRONG>

Typical Gates. You won't find in anyone else quite that same mix of arrogance and cluelessness. I remember a New Yorker profile of him a few years back at the start of the antitrust investigation, describing a scene where Gates was ranting at the nerve of these people (politicians and journalists) for asking him questions and actually demanding that he account for his behavior and that of his company. When the correspondent pointed out that, in a democratic free market, people had every right to question him, he seemed almost helpless: "What are we going to do?"

Too bad that CNBC guy didn't have the wit to followup with, "Why exactly did Microsoft extend the deadline for its new Software Assurance licensing program? Why did it relax the hardware restrictions for Windows Product Activation?"

Still, a good job; nice to see at least one journalist out there isn't throwing softballs. Gates should go on Larry King ...

[dr. zoidberg]

muwahaha.... oranjdisc, thanks for providing those lines! oh i wish i could have seen the sweat of uncomfort condensing on gates� goggles...

[godzappa]

M$ is certainly slipping out of power as of right now, which is why they are also being so pushy right now, as they know if they continue the rate theyre going right now the company will have to shrink to half its size just to break even... so theyre pulling out crap like limited licences, copy protection etc.

Scary thing is they may (probably will) pull it off and the consumers will end up paying for it..

Cheers for the heads up on the interviews guys

[dawho9]

- Flame away -

I'll be the first person to say it, I went out and purchased a copy of Windoze XP today. Just the upgrade version.

Now before you kill me, let me just say that I am a Mac user but my place of work is all access all the time, so I have to run a Windows something at home if I ever want to get work done. Plus, I'm tried of having to reboot my computer every ten minutes. Not to also mention, its a tax write off.

I have used RC2 and I have to admit, the OS is much better than lets say Win98. But I still don't believe it has anything on my little old mac.

Would I upgrade from Win2K, not a chance. Would I use it in the Pro world, probably not.

But I had to upgrade from Win98 and my local best buy was giving away 256 megs of RAM, Free CD, Free MP3 Player and a Free D-Link Router, just for purchasing it.

dw9

[HoofHearted]

just thought I'd add that the BBC1 6o'clock news have just billed their XP launch item as "and later, a very rich man gets even richer..."


Windows is finally getting stable and almost as easy as a mac and the world seems too uninterested to notice!

Ahhh, makes a 10.1 user feel all warm inside...

[Mr Heliums]

Originally posted by HoofHearted:
<STRONG>just thought I'd add that the BBC1 6o'clock news have just billed their XP launch item as "and later, a very rich man gets even richer..."


Windows is finally getting stable and almost as easy as a mac and the world seems too uninterested to notice!

Ahhh, makes a 10.1 user feel all warm inside...</STRONG>

Yup compared to the Windows 95 launch, this has gone kinda flat.

[Nonsuch]

Originally posted by dawho9:
<STRONG>- Flame away -

I'll be the first person to say it, I went out and purchased a copy of Windoze XP today. Just the upgrade version.

Now before you kill me, let me just say that I am a Mac user but my place of work is all access all the time, so I have to run a Windows something at home if I ever want to get work done. Plus, I'm tried of having to reboot my computer every ten minutes. Not to also mention, its a tax write off.

I have used RC2 and I have to admit, the OS is much better than lets say Win98. But I still don't believe it has anything on my little old mac.</STRONG>

If I were still running my Win98 PC at home, I'd probably want XP too. I think the UI is restricting and irritating, but AFAIK the hardware and software compatibility is better than Win2K, and that might have won me over. But with OS 10.1 on the G4 at home, the issue is moot.

[Bernard Ducamp]

Someone wrote that "Gates should go on Larry King ..."

My suggestion...........The O'Reilly Report on Fox. The No-Spin-Zone will really challenge Mr. Gates.

[Hash]

Madra - urban Mac OS X Guerilla - strikes deftly at the heart of Microsoft's evil empire. He stalks the isles of PCWorld hunting down his mortal enemies, dispatching them with his newly-acquired Developer Tools CD*

Lets wage a guerilla war on MS, lets attack them from all corners, wait for them on all roofs with sniper rifles, lets put bombs in their Windozes, lets unleash all might of our Unix Cruise missiles on their headquarters, lets put computer viruses in their orange juice, lets crush all WIndoze CDROMS! No pasaran, madra!

[Group51]

Somewhat amusing picture and tagline, and somewhat MS-spin free story:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/bus...00/1619802.stm

[typoon]

Originally posted by Bernard Ducamp:
<STRONG>Someone wrote that "Gates should go on Larry King ..."

My suggestion...........The O'Reilly Report on Fox. The No-Spin-Zone will really challenge Mr. Gates.</STRONG>

I agree with you on that. O'Reilly is very good at asking the tough questions

[The Evener]

Originally posted by dawho9:
<STRONG>- Flame away -

I'll be the first person to say it, I went out and purchased a copy of Windoze XP today. Just the upgrade version.

Now before you kill me, let me just say that I am a Mac user but my place of work is all access all the time, so I have to run a Windows something at home if I ever want to get work done. Plus, I'm tried of having to reboot my computer every ten minutes. Not to also mention, its a tax write off.

I have used RC2 and I have to admit, the OS is much better than lets say Win98. But I still don't believe it has anything on my little old mac.

Would I upgrade from Win2K, not a chance. Would I use it in the Pro world, probably not.

But I had to upgrade from Win98 and my local best buy was giving away 256 megs of RAM, Free CD, Free MP3 Player and a Free D-Link Router, just for purchasing it.

dw9</STRONG>

Come again? You received RAM, CDs, an MP3 Player, AND a D-Link router for buying Windows XP??


Or I take it it was one among the four options??

[theolein]

Originally posted by Nonsuch:
<STRONG>

If I were still running my Win98 PC at home, I'd probably want XP too. I think the UI is restricting and irritating, but AFAIK the hardware and software compatibility is better than Win2K, and that might have won me over. But with OS 10.1 on the G4 at home, the issue is moot. </STRONG>

Hey! I have Win98 on my home PC and it has never had one system crash or BSOD. I'm honest, it has been incredibly stable, much more so than my Mac in OS 9, which has bombed on me at least once every time I've used it.

[m a d r a]

[* did ya get it ?]

yea. cheers gee4orce. the CD came on monday. not sure about the white powder in the envelope tho'. i've not felt the same since i snorted it.

[Nonsuch]

Originally posted by theolein:
<STRONG>
Hey! I have Win98 on my home PC and it has never had one system crash or BSOD. I'm honest, it has been incredibly stable, much more so than my Mac in OS 9, which has bombed on me at least once every time I've used it.</STRONG>

Do you have a lot of software on it? Windows partisans (not saying you are one, mind you) often claimed Win98 was perfectly stable as long as you didn't start installing 3rd-party software willy-nilly. My, how helpful.

[davecom]

All I want to see is Bill Gates and Steve Baumer dance like they did at the Windows 98 Launch.

[dawho9]

Originally posted by The Evener:
<STRONG>

Come again? You received RAM, CDs, an MP3 Player, AND a D-Link router for buying Windows XP??


Or I take it it was one among the four options??</STRONG>

Nope, very serious. I got one stick of 256 PC133 RAM (which I put in my G4 Tower). One CD, a Rio MP3 Player and the D-Link Router with 4 port switch.

And that was with a purchase of $199.00 upgrade to Pro. It is actually not a bad deal at all.

dw9

[lythari]

It's a pity that XP has all these privacy and monopoly issues surrounding it. From what I've read, it's a big improvement over the 9x series as it is based on Windows 2000 (which even I have to admit is not bad).

In other MS related news, CNET is reporting that MS has been forced to back off from a redesign of MSN that prevents people using non-MS browsers from accessing MSN.
http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200...html?tag=tp_pr

[OverclockedHomoSapien]

BBC rocks.

Today NPR had a bit on Windows XP and they were not critical of it at all. The GUI enhancements and visual appeal was brought up without a single mention of Apple. I find that sickening since M$ owes so much to OS X when it comes to XP's appearance.

American press seems to treat M$ with kid gloves, just like they do with Dubya. Can you imagine if they went after XP or Dubya with same drive and ambition that they went after Clinton's sex life???

[michaelb]

Originally posted by lythari:
<STRONG>It's a pity that XP has all these privacy and monopoly issues surrounding it. From what I've read, it's a big improvement over the 9x series as it is based on Windows 2000 (which even I have to admit is not bad).</STRONG>

Pity nothing! Fewer sales of Windows XP to newcomers means more potential Mac users.

How can you possibly pity an OS that has over 90% of marketshare and is now offering an incremental upgrade to lock users into it even further?

Pity us poor Mac users with 4%. Pity poor Linux users with 2-3%.

Is it only Australians that root for the underdog?

[BTP]

Nah. The biggest pity is that XP will muddy the waters for everyone else. This is something I posted in another thread and frankly should concern everyone, but likely will only get attention after the fact.

You can read an interesting account of why XP will likely be the choice machine of hackers/crackes using DOS attacks here. Just think now any script kiddie can take down any site that pisses them off with XP. Thanks Microsoft!

[freeandunmuzzled]

Originally posted by OverclockedHomoSapien:
<STRONG>American press seems to treat M$ with kid gloves, just like they do with Dubya. Can you imagine if they went after XP or Dubya with same drive and ambition that they went after Clinton's sex life???</STRONG>

i think it just depends who is in charge.

jack schofield, the notoriously anti-mac computer editor at the otherwise excellent Guardian, wrote a glowing report on xp. luckily he's not the only techy at the newspaper these days, other articles are less friendly to xp.

while you're there, check out this great interview with the other steve.

[Gee4orce]

Has anyone seen coverage on MSNBC ? I wonder how impartial that is...

[m a d r a]

at least the beeb disnae have adverts. jesus h! my girlfriend was watchin ITV and channel5 [commercial channels] last nitght and that bloody windozeXP advert was on every f**kin commercial break!

what is it with micro$oft and the PC world that even their adverts are infuriatingly annoying?

stupid girl flying about through the air.... annoying music playing.... "you mix" .... more dumb looking people.... "you burn"... blah...blah... "you fly" etc. etc.

i'm summarising a bit as it's too annoying to watch all the way through. but is it just me or does "you burn... you mix... you fly" sound a TEENSY WEENSY bit like some other advertising campaign by a rival company?

[dawho9]

Actually, funny story after seeing that commercial. I was watching CSI last night with my wife, had just finished my install of Windows XP over RC2.

During the commercial, I see all of these people flying around and I'm like, "F*ck, since I installed this thing, I have been able to fly around."

So I jump up out of my chair, go running over to the stairs and jump off the third stair or so acting like I'm trying to fly. Well, as I doing this, my cat comes running under me and in an attempt not to crush my cat, I really tried to fly!

Let's just say, I ended up face first on the foyer floor. I was laughing so hard. My wife asked me what was so funny, and I was just wondering. How many stupid people out there will actually think they can fly if they install this? I know it sounds dumb, but I can actually see some people trying this.

later,

dw9

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by m a d r a:
<STRONG>stupid girl flying about through the air.... annoying music playing.... "you mix" .... more dumb looking people.... "you burn"... blah...blah... "you fly" etc. etc.

i'm summarising a bit as it's too annoying to watch all the way through. but is it just me or does "you burn... you mix... you fly" sound a TEENSY WEENSY bit like some other advertising campaign by a rival company?</STRONG>

Oh yeah...I saw the one with "shoot your movie...edit it [bad iMovie knock-off here that in the two-second shot looked close enough to Aqua iMovie to be indistinguishable to uninformed watcher]...send it" and was stunned.

Basically, the ad was shot to exemplify what Apple has been selling as "digital lifestyle" for two years (since the iMac DV), except that Apple never really had *quite* the media presence...somehow though, I doubt that it *really* matters all that much...


In general, XP reviews here are along the lines of "well, it's doubtful that anybody really needs this" with the odd positive review thrown in...no mention of alternative products though.

-chris.

[godzappa]

Hah the XP commercials are funny... I mean you can excuse some of Apples commercials as they dont have a 5 billion (was it 5?) marketing budget, but the cheesey and not very well done, flying is funny.

Of course many of the points that will sell XP are the "digital lifestyle" elements. So M$ has a new OS that can allow you to listen to digital music, edit movies, etc etc. What has Apple got? (of course WE know what Apple has got, but many havent got a clue)...

Which is a shame, as I was hoping Apple would have been actually pushing 10.1 as soon as it was released. Instead we get no X commercials, and now have that iPod commercial. I like the product, pricey of course, but that commercial is annoying and doesnt show of what makes the iPod really cool. At least theres a 2 second shot of X I guess

[Simon X]

!!!!!

[m a d r a]

So I jump up out of my chair, go running over to the stairs and jump off the third stair or so acting like I'm trying to fly. Well, as I doing this, my cat comes running under me and in an attempt not to crush my cat, I really tried to fly!

Let's just say, I ended up face first on the foyer floor

...so the computer didnae crash, but the user did.

[theolein]

Originally posted by Nonsuch:
<STRONG>

Do you have a lot of software on it? Windows partisans (not saying you are one, mind you) often claimed Win98 was perfectly stable as long as you didn't start installing 3rd-party software willy-nilly. My, how helpful. </STRONG>

Yes, I had Adobe and Macromedia stuff on it when I was using it at work. That and many games and even used Allaires Jrun demo for a while I have nothing against Windows actually. Win2k has been very stable if somewhat of a pain with it's continual losing of network sync. I prefer OSX a lot but I don't bash Windows and find it dumb to do so and I often see Mac fans and PC fans spewing forth crap about their respective platforms, having no idea what they're talking about. It works well enough. What I do bash and dislike with a passion is the company, Microsoft. Those people are criminals and gangsters and deserve to be treated as such. They treat everyone, including users, business partners and the law with complete and utter disrespect. They behave like a bunch of Nazi dictators and propagandists and seem to be fundamentally incapable of saying an honest word. The campaign against Open Source was believed only by the truly brainwashed and backfired against them nicely. Their attitude to security gives food to the paranoid who believe that MS deliberatley sabotage security in order to further their attempt to control the net. Their activation scheme is hated by everyone and it is only because there was an enormous outcry in the Windows world that they relxed the strictness of it. Their making applications part of the OS in XP is what has put the breaks on me ever upgrading my Windows. Apple has bundled applications such as iMove etc but you can always uninstall them and your Mac runs fine. XP leaves you no choice any more. You cannot uninstall all the junk they force on you, even if you want to.

Apple has a good future in corporate computing if they choose to carry on with OSX as they have and leave users to develop, install and run that software which they choose. It is being rumoured a lot lately that corporations are starting to look at Macs with OSX as a serious alternative to Windows.

An alternative, more serious, window theme would do wonders for Apple in the corporate world though.

[Mac Guru]

My suggestion...........The O'Reilly Report on Fox. The No-Spin-Zone will really challenge Mr. Gates.

Dude I would buy a VHS copy of that show if he was on there... O'Reilly would rip him a new one... I would laugh my a$$ off.

Mac Guru

P.S.- Coverage from MSNBC is as always, flowering and gracious... he owns them, why else but to have reporters praise him when others wont.

[ 10-26-2001: Message edited by: Mac Guru ]

[fulmer]

Originally posted by Bernard Ducamp:
<STRONG>Someone wrote that "Gates should go on Larry King ..."

My suggestion...........The O'Reilly Report on Fox. The No-Spin-Zone will really challenge Mr. Gates.</STRONG>

great! we''ve some Factor fans on the boards. Me too. Except Bill wasn't there last night. Gibson is prob a nice guy, but the Factor sucks w/out Bill, and sometimes you'll here Shepard Smith make jokes about the big ratings drop when Bill goes on vacation.

[theolein]

Originally posted by BTP:
<STRONG>Nah. The biggest pity is that XP will muddy the waters for everyone else. This is something I posted in another thread and frankly should concern everyone, but likely will only get attention after the fact.

You can read an interesting account of why XP will likely be the choice machine of hackers/crackes using DOS attacks here. Just think now any script kiddie can take down any site that pisses them off with XP. Thanks Microsoft!</STRONG>

The difference between the XP imlementation of Raw Sockets and the Unix one(MacOSX included) is that in Unix you must be root to use these, implying that the machine belongs to you (yes, I know that if you have gotten in and become root through some exploit that this doesn't hold). In XP there is no such limitation, meaning that anyone with the ability to run something from a diskette can do it, or via some trojan that doesn't need any strict permissions.

[BTP]

Theolin,

Exactly. That is why it is dangerous, since it's only a matter or time when XP machines are compromised and they can do a lot of damage and take pretty much any site down with DOS or participate in a DDOS, without the owner knowing.

Also in OS X, not all the services are on by defaut. In XP that is not the case, making an XP machine ripe for the picking.

I just hope I am overstating the dangers, but I don't think so. It's just a matter of time.

[DNA man]

Originally posted by theolein:
<STRONG>
Hey! I have Win98 on my home PC and it has never had one system crash or BSOD. I'm honest, it has been incredibly stable, much more so than my Mac in OS 9, which has bombed on me at least once every time I've used it.</STRONG>

Depends on the wintel hardware. Wintels at work can run Win98 very stably but others pop and crash all the time. we have even discovered the power outlets (although they are protected) can make a difference too! BTW, I use OS9.x alot and it actually crashes LESS than Win98 and NT.
DNA man


[ 10-27-2001: Message edited by: DNA man ]

[theolein]

Originally posted by BTP:
<STRONG>Theolin,

Exactly. That is why it is dangerous, since it's only a matter or time when XP machines are compromised and they can do a lot of damage and take pretty much any site down with DOS or participate in a DDOS, without the owner knowing.

Also in OS X, not all the services are on by defaut. In XP that is not the case, making an XP machine ripe for the picking.

I just hope I am overstating the dangers, but I don't think so. It's just a matter of time.</STRONG>

These Raw Socket things in XP are dangerous for so many reasons, and make me more paranoid than I am in any case. For one thing Microsoft uses them for it's Remote Assistence thing and it uses (typically Microsoft) a propietry protocol called SLP for this. It's the reason Microsoft was so stubborn about their use even though they were warned often enough about the dangers. And I'm not refering to DDOS attacks because so called script kiddies had Linux or cracked versions of Win2k before this so there's nothing new here. I'm thinking about the huge fat hole (it's almost pornographic) that these Sockets will open up. It will really take no time whatsoever for crackers, some of whom border on the genius believe me, to exploit this SLP and trash XP machines by the dozen. Tales of machines being taken over by some malicious hacker will definitely become commonplace. Microsoft is a company that trusts it's users as much as it's users trust Microsoft: not at all. The ASP backdoor that was discovered last year in some little DLL with the password "Netscape engineers are weenies" was typical of Microsoft trying to keep their users under control without it becoming too obvious. Raw Sockets will be Microsofts next attempt. Someone will catch Microsoft red handed trying to gather information illegally on it's users and there will be hell to play. Microsoft as a company exhibits a lot of arrogance with respect to it's users and assumes that everyone not involved in the company is a bunch of incompetent morons whom they can easily outwit in their power games. Crap like asking security companies not to publish exploits (and this usually after the security companies had given microsoft at least a month of notice without any answer from them) "because it gives the hackers ammunition for more exploits" is an extreme example of the profound arrogance of that company. They feel that they are not responsible for any action they take and yet ask others to be responsible to them. There has been such a negative backlash against XP *from PC users* judging from the poll taken at ZDNet (which is also a cheap tabloid POS if I may say so) that I think MS has truely met it's waterloo here and I sincerely hope that they take a beating in sales and at the stock exchange.

[m a d r a]

blimey theolin! don't they have paragraphs in switzerland?

sometimes you post quite interesting stuff but when it's just a continuous stream of text it's bloody hard to read.

especially when i'm this pissed*

[*pissed US=annoyed UK&IRL=drunk - interpret geographically]

-edited because of anthrax contammination-

[ 10-28-2001: Message edited by: m a d r a ]

[iCartman]

XP security in action..
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/22509.html

zealots beware!

[[APi]TheMan]

"And he predicts that XP will be twice as successful as Windows 95." a quote from the BBC regarding Steve Ballmer's feelings on XP. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_1619000/1619802.stm).

What the heck is Microsoft smoking? Windows 95 was hardly an advance on 3.1, the GUI was already there. Windows 98 was nothing really new, still the same old Microsoft sh1t, but with Internet Explorer integrated into the OS. XP is nothing new. More user-friendly? Maybe. More stable? Maybe. But it isn't as revolutionary as introducing the GUI. Microsoft has basically re-invented the GUI, painted it pretty colors, and included his gay applications such as Media Player and MSN Messenger, and he thinks it's going to take of.

With MacOS X, sure, it's a GUI. Sure, Macintosh has had the GUI for ages now, but it's not all about the GUI. Apple did something SPECIAL with their latest OS release. MacOS X will take off because of its Unix core. Microsoft has nothing that has revolutionized the new OS they call XP. They think it's going to take off? They're dumb.

I hope Microsoft withers away into nothing. That bastard Bill Gates deserves to be shot, and leeched of all his money.

[Sine]

The only people I see moving to XP are the Windows zealots. I know tons of people that went back to 2K. Most will stay will stay with 2K for as long as they can.With 2K MS was getting it right. For some reason they decided to screw it all up in XP

[jimmac]

As a long time Macuser with many PC ( that's not politcally correct but personal computer ) friends I have to say not a one of them ( who by the way regularly thumb there nose at the Mac ) are going to upgrade to XP. You would think with all their fancy hardware they would jump at the chance of an OS upgrade.

I find this most amusing coming from people who just a year or two ago said and I quote " What's OS X ? ".

This face is for all you Windows users who would belittle the Mac

[ 10-28-2001: Message edited by: jimmac ]

[Nonsuch]

A little story for you:

My father has been an avid WinTel user all his adult life. He explicitly says that as far as he's concerned, Windows is "the best thing out there."

He recently bought a new laptop (Dell -- he buys nothing but Dell. Ironic given his son's proclivities. ) and I asked him if it came with XP installed. He said it hadn't and that he would probably have to purchase the upgrade when it was available in the stores. He did admit he was reluctant, though--he's already had a taste of Office XP's activation scheme.

When I mentioned that there were already cracks circulating to disable WPA he got very interested, and asked me to let him know how to find one when he finally upgraded.

This is not a guy who will go out and install the OS on a dozen machines. He just refuses to grant Microsoft that much power over his system. So when he does install XP, it will be a hacked version.

Congratulations, Messrs. Gates and Ballmer: you've made a criminal out of one of your most loyal customers. In how many other places in the US and the rest of the world is this same story playing out?

Go Apple.