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Repeal of Obamacare (Page 13)
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reader50
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Jul 20, 2017, 11:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Straight repeal is 17 million. To give you context on how terrible the convoluted GOP bills are.
That's 17 million losing coverage the first year, rising to 32 million within 10 years. I've yet to figure out why it's so dang important to strip health insurance from the middle class.
( Last edited by reader50; Jul 20, 2017 at 01:45 PM. Reason: added quote, corrected 34 -> 32)
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 20, 2017, 12:07 PM
 
I post first year numbers because they're less sensationalistic.
     
subego
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Jul 20, 2017, 01:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
less sensationalistic.
Ban him.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 20, 2017, 01:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
That's 17 million losing coverage the first year, rising to 34 million within 10 years. I've yet to figure out why it's so dang important to strip health insurance from the middle class.
Don't forget the poor - there's no reason to **** with the Medicaid expansion. The middle class thing is arguable because we're seeing uneven effects in the prices they're being offered.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 20, 2017, 01:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Ban him.
The other reason is regardless of how you feel about the CBO the accuracy of their predictions likely dwindles the further out they project. By posting the immediate effects I feel I am positing facts that are harder to contradict.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 20, 2017, 02:34 PM
 
"That's a luxury we don't have" -@JohnCornyn when asked "don't some people want to know the plan before they vote" on health care.
It seems like the GOP is committed to hypocrisy in every aspect of criticism they levied towards the passage of the ACA.
     
Chongo
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Jul 20, 2017, 03:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
That's 17 million losing coverage the first year, rising to 32 million within 10 years. I've yet to figure out why it's so dang important to strip health insurance from the middle class.
How many are people forced to purchase coverage by law.
45/47
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 20, 2017, 04:02 PM
 
A quick google says Medicaid expansion enrollment is over 14 million. So some subset of the remaining three mil.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 20, 2017, 04:10 PM
 
I must be missing some nuance of the CBO score or how the exchanges work because the marketplace has roughly 12 million enrolles.

14 + 12 = 26 million

Not sure how that remaining 9 mil are getting covered unless the CBO is doesn't count them if they are voluntarily uninsured. In which case chongos number is 9 mil.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 20, 2017, 04:21 PM
 
Paul Ryan is bitching that CBO numbers are inaccurate because they count voluntarily uninsured under the umbrella of uninsured so IDK
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 22, 2017, 07:12 PM
 
One of things I always miss is there's no one in favor or the ACHA/BRCA in here selling us on what specific benefits/improvements it makes. It's telling.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jul 23, 2017, 10:11 AM
 
Snake oil salesman is selling snake oil. Shocking.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 23, 2017, 11:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Snake oil salesman is selling snake oil. Shocking.
That's not what I'm saying.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 23, 2017, 11:13 PM
 
Can anyone translate this Trump quote?

So pre-existing conditions are a tough deal. Because you are basically saying from the moment the insurance, you’re 21 years old, you start working and you’re paying $12 a year for insurance, and by the time you’re 70, you get a nice plan,
It seems to imply he thinks insurance is $12 a month.
     
besson3c  (op)
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Jul 24, 2017, 08:37 AM
 
I was confused by that too.

Great communicator my ass....
     
Paco500
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Jul 24, 2017, 09:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Can anyone translate this Trump quote?



It seems to imply he thinks insurance is $12 a month.
The prevailing wisdom is that he was quoting prices from life insurance commercials that constantly run on Fox News. Because he doesn't know the difference.
     
Chongo
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Jul 24, 2017, 10:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Can anyone translate this Trump quote?



It seems to imply he thinks insurance is $12 a month.
One of our plans is $5 a month for single coverage. I think $12 is for couples. I don't recall the family copay. Cash is placed in an account to use for office visits, drugs etc, and has catastrophic coverage. We call it young and bulletproof option.

My company self insures(for over 45 years. We did have Cigna and Healthnet as options, but were dropped when they became too expensive. Our out of packet max has increased to avoid the "Cadillac plan" penalty.
45/47
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 24, 2017, 10:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
The prevailing wisdom is that he was quoting prices from life insurance commercials that constantly run on Fox News. Because he doesn't know the difference.
I find that hard to believe.
     
subego
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Jul 24, 2017, 01:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Can anyone translate this Trump quote?
I think the president made his thoughts clear on the matter, and I have no further comment.
     
Paco500
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Jul 24, 2017, 01:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I find that hard to believe.
Link to a commercial that apparently runs regularly on Fox News.

Gerber Life Grow-up Plan

Maybe saying he 'doesn't know the difference' is too harsh, but perhaps he believes they operate under similar conditions. I can't think of a theory that makes more sense.

I don't think it's a case of him just misspeaking as he quoted a similar ($15/month) to the economist earlier this year.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 24, 2017, 01:58 PM
 
No I've heard the gerber theory it's just too dumb for me.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 24, 2017, 04:00 PM
 
I just realized there's five female GOP senators and three of them have been noes at some point on this bill.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 24, 2017, 09:21 PM
 
They got clearance to drag McCain back for the vote (and I imagine he doesn't know what in the bill he's voting for). I hope the man can see the symbolism in someone who is fighting brain cancer possibly voting to take the ability to get that treated away from millions of others.




Indefensible.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 25, 2017, 10:07 AM
 
Isn't what's happening today the ultimate version of "You have to pass it to know what's in it?"
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 26, 2017, 05:35 PM
 
The BRCA is so bad it got less votes than Repeal and Delay.

Now all that's left is the skinny repeal and perhaps some conference ****ery.

So, who here wants skinny repeal?
     
subego
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Jul 26, 2017, 05:54 PM
 
So, McCain did spike the actual bill?
     
OreoCookie
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Jul 26, 2017, 07:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
So, McCain did spike the actual bill?
Yes, he voted with No.
That really makes me wonder what is going on in McConnel's head: the only reason why I would drag McCain away from short-term recovery and long-term battle with cancer if I were sure he'd vote for Yes when it came to the actual bill (for otherwise he'd be the third Republican to vote with No, killing the bill).

McConnel really reminds me of Frank Underwood: brilliant tactician but with no firm political and ideological mooring, he'd trade any principle for what he'd consider a win.
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subego
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Jul 26, 2017, 07:27 PM
 
My guess is there was deception involved. McCain fully intended to give his colleagues the shank, and likely used some lawyerly phrasing to make everybody think he was more on board than he actually was.

Reddit had some just friggin nasty responses to him allowing the bill to go to debate, which would make me nauseous anyway, but was made worse by me kinda having the feeling his plan was to spike it anyway.
     
reader50
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Jul 26, 2017, 07:50 PM
 
So our health insurance is safe again, until the next vote.

I do not feel we've been getting good value for our money from this Congress. Perhaps everyone can agree on that.
     
subego
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Jul 26, 2017, 08:24 PM
 
Blimey, this redistribution of wealth is trickier than I thought.
     
OreoCookie
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Jul 26, 2017, 09:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
My guess is there was deception involved. McCain fully intended to give his colleagues the shank, and likely used some lawyerly phrasing to make everybody think he was more on board than he actually was.

Reddit had some just friggin nasty responses to him allowing the bill to go to debate, which would make me nauseous anyway, but was made worse by me kinda having the feeling his plan was to spike it anyway.
I don't pretend to know what kind of relationship McCain has to McConnel, but given the situation this looks like a middle finger.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
OreoCookie
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Jul 26, 2017, 09:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
So our health insurance is safe again, until the next vote.
Next up is “Skinny Repeal”. The “strongest” argument in favor is that the real bill will be worked out in a Conference Committee. The GOP is kicking the sh*t can down the road.
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The Final Dakar
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Jul 26, 2017, 11:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
So, McCain did spike the actual bill?
He voted yes on the BRCA and no on Repeal and Delay.
     
OreoCookie
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Jul 27, 2017, 12:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
He voted yes on the BRCA and no on Repeal and Delay.
Correct, I should have been more specific.
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subego
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Jul 27, 2017, 02:05 AM
 
That at least makes some of the venom more understandable, if not more acceptable.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 27, 2017, 11:04 AM
 
They're writing the skinny repeal over lunch today.

This is a totally responsible way to govern.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 27, 2017, 11:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
That at least makes some of the venom more understandable, if not more acceptable.
He voted to move the process along then gave a speech that they should reset and start from regular order. It was a world class demonstration of political hypocrisy.
     
subego
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Jul 27, 2017, 11:08 AM
 
Twist:

Lunch for the skinny repeal is a bucket of lard.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 27, 2017, 03:56 PM
 
They are doing some weird weird shit with this skinny repeal. No formal agreement between leadership to go to conference even though most senators don't want it to become law.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 27, 2017, 06:57 PM
 
Graham: "The skinny bill as policy is a disaster. The skinny bill as a replacement is a fraud."
...but he'll still vote for it if the terms are right.

What a joke.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 27, 2017, 07:04 PM
 
I swear to god I saw a reporter ask McCain why not vote no and send the bill back to committee (i.e., regular order, like his speech called for yesterday) and he completely ignored the question.

Also a joke.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 27, 2017, 10:27 PM
 
It's out. Not as skinny as previously promised. Vote looks to take place after midnight.

"If the people who wrote this bill were proud of it, they wouldn’t be forcing this vote in the dead of night." -- Mitch McConnell, 2009
The hypocrisy on this is murdering me.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 27, 2017, 10:27 PM
 
     
subego
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Jul 28, 2017, 02:40 AM
 
So... McCain spiked it again?
     
reader50
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Jul 28, 2017, 02:46 AM
 
Yes. Skinny repeal has been defeated.
McCain, who only returned to Washington earlier this week after a diagnosis of brain cancer, joined fellow Republicans Susan Collins of Maine and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska in voting down the so-called “skinny repeal” bill 51-49.
Perhaps reddit was too quick to trash McCain. He has released a statement, unfortunately as a picture on twitter. And I haven't figured out a good image hosting solution yet. He wants healthcare reform sent to the proper committees the normal way, with debate and input from both sides of the aisle. He doesn't want to repeat the mistakes Dems made passing the ACA on party-line votes.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 28, 2017, 09:17 AM
 
That was literally exhausting.

HFC sounds like they still aren't done.
     
andi*pandi
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Jul 28, 2017, 10:05 AM
 
Nice of McCain. Leaderly.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 28, 2017, 10:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Nice of McCain. Leaderly.
What Murkowski did was exemplary. McCain did the least possible.
     
besson3c  (op)
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Jul 28, 2017, 10:59 AM
 
Two questions:

1. Why the rush now?
2. Why did the senate wait for the house to create their bill? Does the house have to pass a bill before the senate will work on an issue, procedurally speaking?
     
subego
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Jul 28, 2017, 11:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
What Murkowski did was exemplary. McCain did the least possible.
Not to take anything away from Murkowski, but this is what I don't get. Yes, McCain can often be a disappointment. This was not one of those times.
     
 
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