[freudling]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

...

Trolling is one thing, humour is something else. Don't think you can just jump in here at the end and think you can make judgements.

Mitch and I have been back and forth for a while on this. What do you think about the Galaxy Tab?

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by freudling 

We are having a discussion about the iPad in relation to the competition. You've heard of grading on a curve? Well that's what we're doing here. There are other better screens and we're saying Apple will need to improve the iPad's screen. That's all.

Nobody is saying the iPad is unuseable because it's screen is so bad. It's just that Apple is going to have to compete or people might turn to devices like the Tab instead, which itself has a higher pixel density.

Honest question - are there any other 10" capacitive screens in the market? Or is Apple's the only one right now?

I don't think there are better screens at the same size as the iPad, but I could be wrong.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Honest question - are there any other 10" capacitive screens in the market? Or is Apple's the only one right now?

I don't think there are better screens at the same size as the iPad, but I could be wrong.

Finally a non-touchy person. Good question. Yes, there are some ~10" screen tablets out there, but not a whole lot. iPad is the best thing going at that size I would say... the designs of the larger tablets aren't so great. There's also some 10.9" screens strangely.

Oh, and I want to point something out about Android apps and the screen size that we have figured out from some info on the web. The following refers:

"It’s actually pretty easy to make all apps run full screen, without rooting.
It’s explained by JKKMobile in a Youtube video.

Surprisingly, pretty much all Android apps seem to support the higher resolution and don’t look bad or pixelated at all.

It’s amazing.

I got my Galaxy Tab last week and I must say it’s an incredibly smooth experience. Yes, it is as smooth as the iPad. Lag gets mentioned in a couple of rewievs, but so far, I’ve not experienced any lag at all.

I have set browser plugins (Flash) to on demand, but that’s all.

This thing just flies.

I have not rooted my Tab (yet). I’m very pleased with the experience so far and yes, it was worth the 600€ (800$) that I had to pay for it over here in Europe.

Overall, I think it’s the best slate tablet so far. Better than the iPad for me, because it’s not that heavy and it offers all the huge advantages of Android over iOS."

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by freudling 

It's the age old problem. License your OS and get lots of marketshare compared to not licensing it like Apple and only stay on a couple devices. We all know the positives and negatives of both.

FACT: Android marketshare is continuing to grow. It's here to stay. But so is iOS. Choice is good.

Next time, at least PRETEND that you read and are actually replying to my post.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by freudling 

You do that Mitchy. Make sure to grab one of those hot dogs out front of Best Buy, and can you pick me up some milk on your way back?

I went to all three Best Buys in Colorado Springs. I was only going to go to the main store, but online is very vague about availability of these devices in store.

The Huawei Ideos is available readily online at bestbuy.com. From among three stores, only one has the Ideos, and it's only in white. There were five on the floor.

The Archos 7 and 9 were not available in any store, and are not available for order on bestbuy.com.

Every store had plenty of Galaxy Tabs on Sprint and VZW.

So, judging by my trip, you can find an Huawei in my town of 750k but only in white, but both the 7" and 10" Archos are not available from the source that many Americans would check out first, either in store, or online. This is purely anecdotal of course, but considering that Joanna Stern of Engadget had to go to southern NJ from NYC to get an Ideos, I'm not sure these things are really out there as much as you think.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by freudling 

What do you think about the Galaxy Tab?

I think Samsung continues to unabashedly copy Apple and ride their gravy train without actually innovating anything. Not sure if that means it's a bad product. They've done a decent job copying the iPad, maybe the whole point is that average consumers will stop noticing and only nerds on computer forums will argue the finer points.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

I went to all three Best Buys in Colorado Springs. I was only going to go to the main store, but online is very vague about availability of these devices in store.

The Huawei Ideos is available readily online at bestbuy.com. From among three stores, only one has the Ideos, and it's only in white. There were five on the floor.

The Archos 7 and 9 were not available in any store, and are not available for order on bestbuy.com.

Every store had plenty of Galaxy Tabs on Sprint and VZW.

So, judging by my trip, you can find an Huawei in my town of 750k but only in white, but both the 7" and 10" Archos are not available from the source that many Americans would check out first, either in store, or online. This is purely anecdotal of course, but considering that Joanna Stern of Engadget had to go to southern NJ from NYC to get an Ideos, I'm not sure these things are really out there as much as you think.

I was at Best Buy and Future Shop yesterday. They were available and they were on display.

[imitchellg5]

What is your location, besides obviously Canada? And which product are you referring to?

[freudling]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

I think Samsung continues to unabashedly copy Apple and ride their gravy train without actually innovating anything. Not sure if that means it's a bad product. They've done a decent job copying the iPad, maybe the whole point is that average consumers will stop noticing and only nerds on computer forums will argue the finer points.

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

I think Samsung continues to unabashedly copy Apple and ride their gravy train without actually innovating anything. Not sure if that means it's a bad product. They've done a decent job copying the iPad, maybe the whole point is that average consumers will stop noticing and only nerds on computer forums will argue the finer points.

Ya, Android absolutely copied iOS. No question. I don't think Samsung copied the iPad though, not from a design perspective. The Tab is really a different thing. But Android, ya, it's a copy. Only thing is, it's really better in some key areas, like multi-tasking, has widgets, and, whether you want to believe it or not, it is open. Apple rejects all kinds of things on their App Store and it's sometimes not good. The Android marketplace is very open and free in comparison. I know it protects users from spam, but it's too closed also.

Case in point. Imagine if Apple had the power to approve or reject software posted on the Internet for download. Imagine how controlled the web would be? We don't need Apple controlling us like that. We do just fine on our own, and download what we want, when we want.

I do think they have done a good job with the App Store though. The odd rejection headline does irk me, however.

Back to Android copying iOS. When I look at WebOS or WP7, I really give credit to Palm/HP and MS. These are very unique operating systems. I respect them for that. Sure, they are copying Apple in terms of their app stores, etc. approach to smartphones/tablets, but their operating systems are so different I have to take my hat off to them.

And what is the iOS anyway? It is itself just a copy of the Palm OS on the old PDAs, of course running on much more powerful hardware, with multi-touch. But they are the same. iOS in this way is not unique. The App Store is, tying that to mobile devices was smart. Apple deserves credit for that. I just think that they could have been even more innovative with iOS in the beginning. But it was great when it came out on the iPhone. But now after all this time, it's just the same thing.

And where did the Palm OS come from? Apple. Ha. As in the Newton OS. And when I look at the home screen of my Newton, the only real difference from a surface perspective is that the screen is black and white. And in many ways, the Newton OS is more powerful. Obviously old technology, but it's worth mentioning all this I think.

And in using iOS 4.2.1 on the iPad for about a week, I'm not happy with it. The multi-tasking is just trickery. It's not real multi-tasking. It only allows for a small number of things to run in the background, like music, and not much else. Everything else gets frozen, for the most part. I really stress tested it, and it's just not measuring up. YouTube for example. I started playing a 1 hour lecture, and then went back to the home screen. Double tapped the home button, and noticed that the play button in the dock was for YouTube, and not the iPod. So I pushed play. Bang, it started playing the lecture.

Cool. I then went and did other things on the web while it was playing in the background. Unfortunately, when I would go back to the YouTube App once in a while to see a chart or something he was talking about, it wasn't playing. It just was frozen. Only the audio was feeding. It then all of a sudden just started fastforwarding to catch up to where the audio was. After going back and forth several times, this aspect of it was sort of useless.

Using the Palm Pre... although I'm not a fan of the design, the WebOS is just so much better at multi-tasking, and so is Android. It's for these reasons and others that these OSes are winning me over.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Ya, Android absolutely copied iOS.

Apart from where Android shipped with multitasking before iOS, copy and paste before iOS, where it's free to use on any device for anyone, is Linux based, free to develop for, had the first appreciable mobile marketplace. I think you could say that iOS copied Android in some respects. Even the Android business model is completely different than iOS.

Agree with your points on webOS, nearly everything stated above was on webOS, and to this day it still handles multitasking much much better than iOS and network integration and notifications completely put iOS to shame. And it's amazing how quick it is on the Pre 2.

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by freudling 

whether you want to believe it or not, it is open. Apple rejects all kinds of things on their App Store and it's sometimes not good.

A common mistake, you're mistaken open for the manufacturer with being open for the end user.

Android is the first, not the second. With Android you're putting your trust either in the manufacturer of the device or in the Telco, just like with Apple you're putting your trust in Apple. Both manufacturers and telcos have been known to install their own flavours of Android that served their business models rather than their customer's interest. You, as an end user, end up with an ecosystem that is just as closed as Apple's, meaning you cannot just go out and download and install any app there is.

The resulting fragmentation, together with user frustration, is probably the biggest problem Android is currently facing. Only about 20% of all apps created for Android work on all Android devices.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Apart from where Android shipped with multitasking before iOS, copy and paste before iOS, where it's free to use on any device for anyone, is Linux based, free to develop for, had the first appreciable mobile marketplace. I think you could say that iOS copied Android in some respects. Even the Android business model is completely different than iOS.

Agree with your points on webOS, nearly everything stated above was on webOS, and to this day it still handles multitasking much much better than iOS and network integration and notifications completely put iOS to shame. And it's amazing how quick it is on the Pre 2.

Nope. Android is a copy of iOS. WP7? No, way different. WebOS? Way different. Android could have been completely different. It doesn't matter that it had something like copy and paste first. It doesn't make it a different paradigm. The user interface is exactly the same as iOS.

Same thing like the original Mac OS operating system and Windows. Even though it had technologies like dynamic memory allocation (sort of, Windows 95), etc., on the whole, they were very much the same. Apple sued back in the 80s when they knew MS was trying to release a GUI OS. They lost in an appeal in 1993/94.

Now, with all that behind them, Android won't be facing any legitimate lawsuits from Apple over using the same GUI OS. But it's very much the same story as the past. Windows won out because it was available on way more computers, and those computers became very cheap to buy. Same thing today. Android is available on way more devices, and many of these devices are cheaper on contract/without than the iPhone. And, Android actually bests Apple in certain areas with its widgets, open marketplace, and multi-tasking.

They're both good, but I personally have migrated over to WP7 and Android, along with many others here, because we're getting more done with them.

The good news is there is a place for Android and iOS in the world. Just like there has always been a place for OS X and Windows.

[imitchellg5]

You have a Windows Phone 7 device? Which one?

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

A common mistake, you're mistaken open for the manufacturer with being open for the end user.

Android is the first, not the second. With Android you're putting your trust either in the manufacturer of the device or in the Telco, just like with Apple you're putting your trust in Apple. Both manufacturers and telcos have been known to install their own flavours of Android that served their business models rather than their customer's interest. You, as an end user, end up with an ecosystem that is just as closed as Apple's, meaning you cannot just go out and download and install any app there is.

The resulting fragmentation, together with user frustration, is probably the biggest problem Android is currently facing. Only about 20% of all apps created for Android work on all Android devices.

Ya, big problem.

Android: 25% OS smartphone marketshare
iOS: 17%

Funny, none of use have faced these issues you refer to. We're downloading whatever we want from the marketplace. And now, we've actually been playing around with some cool titles that were released for smartphones that easily scale up on the Tab screen.

Again, I like iOS, but I'm loving Android and WP7. Each to his own.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

You have a Windows Phone 7 device? Which one?

LG Optimus 7. Actually, three of us here just got them last week. We all agree that it is the best smartphone we have ever used. We are all former iPhone 4 users.

Don't get me wrong, I like the iPhone 4 for a lot of things. But as I have been discussing, I've migrated over now.

We'll still keep a few iPhones around for development, but we're not using them anymore in the world as our phones. The things we like about the Optimus 7 over the iPhone are design and the OS.

The screen is also really really nice. WP7 is of course without copy and paste and multi-tasking. But I hardly ever used copy and paste on the iPhone anyway. Obviously, I want it though, it comes in handy. As for multi-tasking, the funny thing is, none of us notice that it's without it because, with all due respect, the multi-tasking on the iPhone is a joke. It's not real multi-tasking. Never did a whole lot for us.

And with live tiles and stuff, and background music, it seems to actually behave in a multi-tasking way like iOS never did, or could do.

We do know that, from our sources, in February, the 'real' WP7 update is coming. They had to get on the market early for the holidays to try to soak up some marketshare. I know we're early adopters, but honestly, WP7 is really, really good. I've never liked Windows. I've got an Air, a Mini, I run OS X.

I'm not running out and buying a Windows box. But WP7 is excellent. No turning back with this.

You know what? The sad thing is that the iPhone 4 looks shiney and cool, but the design is really wanting in the real world. The Optimus feels way better in the hand. The design is excellent. From our view, the iPhone 4 design just never grew on us, even if it looks cool. It's too boxy and the metal is cold... antennaegate...

But again, each to his own.

[imitchellg5]

Ah, I'm hoping to pick up an HD7 after the holidays. With what little time I've spent with WP7, I really think the platform is solid and SO fast. Seriously, if anybody hasn't used WP7, hitting the home button on an iPhone and going back to the home screen feels ridiculously slow compared to WP7.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Ah, I'm hoping to pick up an HD7 after the holidays. With what little time I've spent with WP7, I really think the platform is solid and SO fast. Seriously, if anybody hasn't used WP7, hitting the home button on an iPhone and going back to the home screen feels ridiculously slow compared to WP7.

I couldn't agree more. I really hope people give it a shot because it's very good. Even if it doesn't work out too well for MS, I'm happy with what I have right now.

I have this intuition, as can be seen from this discussion... I think that once WP7 gets momentum, if it does, it's going to take off and get some decent marketshare.

The problem they had with their Zune was the iPod holding so much of the market. The iPod is a hard nut to crack. But the iPhone only has 17%... 'only' because in comparison to the iPod, it's low marketshare.

Still good for Apple in the smartphone game... but there's lots of room for all these guys to share the pie because there' way more variables at play in terms of why people buy certain phones. There's carriers, there's a zillion handset makers, and there's really good mobile OSes now. There's a solid 6 to choose from.

Say what you want about Symbian/MeeGo, BB, and Android. These guys have huge marketshare in certain parts of the world, where the iPhone has failed to penetrate much.

Africa for example is totally owned by Nokia. Apple is just a tiny smudge on the map. We have to think outside of Canada and the US when we're talking business like this.

[imitchellg5]

Microsoft's biggest issue will be overcoming the disappointment of Windows Mobile 6. But if they can get people in stores just to look at the hardware, I think it'll be a success. Oh, and better adverts. But at least bad press is better than no press, right?

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Funny, none of use have faced these issues you refer to.

Wired, Mashable and Engadget are full of stories about both fragmentation, app incompatibility and vendor lock-in; your own anecdotal experience notwithstanding.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by freudling 

We have to think outside of Canada and the US when we're talking business like this.

We do? Why?

I give a rats ass about the cell phone market in Africa, or Europe, for that matter.

-t

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

Wired, Mashable and Engadget are full of stories about both fragmentation, app incompatibility and vendor lock-in; your own anecdotal experience notwithstanding.

You can go ahead and drink their water... makes no difference if you swallow what they say. I, along with lots of others, don't agree that it's that two dimensional.

Android: 25% smartphone OS marketshare
iOS: 17%


Nobody cares man, the market decides.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

We do? Why?

I give a rats ass about the cell phone market in Africa, or Europe, for that matter.

-t

That's great. If you haven't noticed... we're having a discussion about the viability of the Galaxy Tab and iPad... now also about the viability and future of mobile operating systems. Could you imagine a world outside of the United States of America? Could you imagine that's there's 6.4 billion other people in the world? Wow, what a small, insignificant market.

Makes no sense to think about them.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by freudling 

You can go ahead and drink their water... makes no difference if you swallow what they say. I, along with lots of others, don't agree that it's that two dimensional.

Android: 25% smartphone OS marketshare
iOS: 17%

Nobody cares man, the market decides.

With lower customer satisfaction - they're doing fine in the short term, but users are willing to look around for their next device.

[boy8cookie]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Android: 25% smartphone OS marketshare
iOS: 17%

Isn't this thread about the iPad? Android's market-share in the tablet market?

Originally Posted by freudling 

Nobody cares man, the market decides.

I guess you're nobody.

[ort888]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Nobody cares man, the market decides.

AppleInsider | Windows Phone 7 developers fear platform flop

[freudling]

Originally Posted by mduell 

With lower customer satisfaction - they're doing fine in the short term, but users are willing to look around for their next device.

Yup, I agree. Opens the door for other players. We don't need another monopoly in the mobile space.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by ort888 

AppleInsider | Windows Phone 7 developers fear platform flop

That headline coming from an Apple source... Ha. I don't think it will flop. But it won't be a monopoly. I think everyone has to get used to more distributed marketshare. No way with the current crop of mobile operating systems will MS have huge marketshare. I think that's what people sort of trip up on though. WP7 is not Windows Mobile from 5 years ago. It's also not Windows 7. If they get 10% marketshare they should be happy. They've got 5 other major competitors out there who've been there for years. Developers really need to understand this.

Sometimes I think MS should have bought Palm to get the WebOS. But they've really done a great job with WP7 they just need to market the heck out of it now. It's a gem.

[ort888]

I also don't think Windows Phone will be a flop... but Microsoft is going to have to stick with it for a while, because most people are not going to spend big bucks and commit to a lengthy contract on such an unproven platform when you have Android and iOS out there.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by freudling 

You can go ahead and drink their water... makes no difference if you swallow what they say. I, along with lots of others, don't agree that it's that two dimensional.

Android: 25% smartphone OS marketshare
iOS: 17%


Nobody cares man, the market decides.

You have to realise that when people buy an Android device, they might not be buying it to get a smartphone, they're buying it because it's free or very cheap. A LG Optimus T is only $29, which is easy for the average consumer to swallow. But when you're spending $199 on an iPhone, you're buying it for what it is, not just to have a phone. A better comparison would be sales of phones priced at $199 on contract, but I'm not certain that data is available.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

You have to realise that when people buy an Android device, they might not be buying it to get a smartphone, they're buying it because it's free or very cheap. A LG Optimus T is only $29, which is easy for the average consumer to swallow. But when you're spending $199 on an iPhone, you're buying it for what it is, not just to have a phone. A better comparison would be sales of phones priced at $199 on contract, but I'm not certain that data is available.

The reality is that what's the best platforms to develop for? Sadly, or, not so sadly, depends on how you look at it, economies of scale... lower price... zillions of devices = marketshare dominance. So, because Android is sort of like the new Windows but for mobile devices, there's every indication that they will continue to grow stronger. Everyday I check vitals on it, and their growth is not stopping. Android is therefore a really good platform to develop for. Their growth has been staggering.

To be honest, if Android really sucked, nobody would buy it. The market has choice, they really have choice for one of the first times in the PC industry's history in terms of platforms. We've got 6 solid ones to choose from.

Sure, every one of them has their problems, but they all have their benefits too. I really hope WebOS comes on the tablet scene in February, I'm waiting for that.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by freudling 

To be honest, if Android really sucked, nobody would buy it. The market has choice, they really have choice for one of the first times in the PC industry's history in terms of platforms.

I don't think that's entirely true. When Joe Smith walks into T-Mobile and sees he can get an LG deLITE with no social features or browser for $49 or a $29 LG Optimus T with a browser and an app market and a Facebook app, which one is he going to chose? He's gonna choose the Optimus. Because at that low end of the market, there really isn't a choice. It's Android or stay with some dumbphone. That's why you need a comparison of higher-end devices to truly be able to tell where the market is going.

[Spheric Harlot]

Few smartphone owners are loyal to their brand: survey | Reuters

"Loyalty with a handset is a lot more complicated these days in that people buy into experiences at the high-end level," Ryan Garner, the lead analyst on the survey, told Reuters.

"If a phone doesn't do what it says it will do or what the owner hopes it will do, the maker will lose loyalty."

The survey found that just 25 percent of smartphone owners planned to stay loyal to the operating system running their phone, with loyalty highest among Apple users at 59 percent […]

The figure was 28 percent for users of phones running Google's Android software, and 24 percent for users of Nokia Symbian phones.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

I don't think that's entirely true. When Joe Smith walks into T-Mobile and sees he can get an LG deLITE with no social features or browser for $49 or a $29 LG Optimus T with a browser and an app market and a Facebook app, which one is he going to chose? He's gonna choose the Optimus. Because at that low end of the market, there really isn't a choice. It's Android or stay with some dumbphone. That's why you need a comparison of higher-end devices to truly be able to tell where the market is going.

LG Optimus is $129 with contract in Canada.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Few smartphone owners are loyal to their brand: survey | Reuters

Nice. Android's above average.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by freudling 

LG Optimus is $129 with contract in Canada.

Um, okay. My example still stands. The LG Optimus T is still $29 on contract at T-Mobile.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Nice. Android's above average.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Um, okay. My example still stands. The LG Optimus T is still $29 on contract at T-Mobile.

That's cool. I didn't know you could get cheaper deals like that. Good for the consumer. More choice. You can get cheaper phones or more expensive ones like the Samsung Captivate for $199 on AT&T.

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by freudling 

We are having a discussion about the iPad in relation to the competition. You've heard of grading on a curve? Well that's what we're doing here. There are other better screens and we're saying Apple will need to improve the iPad's screen. That's all.

Nobody is saying the iPad is unuseable because it's screen is so bad. It's just that Apple is going to have to compete or people might turn to devices like the Tab instead, which itself has a higher pixel density.

You probably mean "grading on a curve". It's a statistical term and has no relation to this discussion. You probably have heard the term, but did not understand it, and you also did not remember the term correctly.

Your problem is that you are comparing a tablet to cell phones, and throw in some personal opinions not backed up be facts.

And if you ever use facts, you just throw them in without relation to the matters discussed. Very unfocused.

Is it ignorance, is it trolling, I no longer care...

[Macfreak7]

QFT:

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Yes, we have. But the point apparently failed to go over.

Here, specifically, the Tab's higher resolution is touted as an advantage that the iPad must match.

I'm turning it around, as currently, it's a DISadvantage that the iPad must AVOID until fully doubled resolution can actually be built at an affordable price point.

Keywords there being "affordable price point".

I'm surprised not many have pointed out the PRICING factor for a "manufacturer" (given that Apple only designs the product, and they have to negotiate with vendors and manufacturers etc.).

IMO, being able to produce a high quality 10" tablet at an affordable cost is what the competition is unable to achieve and are therefore throwing around their 7" screen tabs. Since they're clearly trying to compete with the iPad, it's probably a given that they'd also be eager to replicate the screen size, unsuccessfully as of now.

Again IMO, iPad is the most balanced product on the market when it comes to screen, performance, usability and design. Yes there is always room for improvement and the much needed weight reduction. Hopefully early next year we will see a 2nd gen iPad with Retina display (and other features) that will again leave the competition playing catch up. And that's just on the hardware end. Software and app integration I don't see Android or WP7 catching up at all in terms of QUALITY (not quantity) and user experience.

Just my $0.02.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

You have to realise that when people buy an Android device, they might not be buying it to get a smartphone, they're buying it because it's free or very cheap. A LG Optimus T is only $29, which is easy for the average consumer to swallow. But when you're spending $199 on an iPhone, you're buying it for what it is, not just to have a phone. A better comparison would be sales of phones priced at $199 on contract, but I'm not certain that data is available.

The initial price of the phone isn't that significant; in the total 2 year cost the purchase price of the phone is dwarfed by the service cost (~$2000).

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Veltliner 

You probably mean "grading on a curve". It's a statistical term and has no relation to this discussion. You probably have heard the term, but did not understand it, and you also did not remember the term correctly.

Your problem is that you are comparing a tablet to cell phones, and throw in some personal opinions not backed up be facts.

And if you ever use facts, you just throw them in without relation to the matters discussed. Very unfocused.

Is it ignorance, is it trolling, I no longer care...

It is not ignorance. It is not trolling. Lots of facts. Positive you haven't read the thread.

And no, I'm not mistaken about grading on a curve. Performance is scored in relation to the competition. That's all I really meant.

And I'm not just comparing tablets to cell phones. I've been making a point about the success of Android in the face of criticism againgst it.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Macfreak7 

QFT:


Keywords there being "affordable price point".

I'm surprised not many have pointed out the PRICING factor for a "manufacturer" (given that Apple only designs the product, and they have to negotiate with vendors and manufacturers etc.).

IMO, being able to produce a high quality 10" tablet at an affordable cost is what the competition is unable to achieve and are therefore throwing around their 7" screen tabs. Since they're clearly trying to compete with the iPad, it's probably a given that they'd also be eager to replicate the screen size, unsuccessfully as of now.

Again IMO, iPad is the most balanced product on the market when it comes to screen, performance, usability and design. Yes there is always room for improvement and the much needed weight reduction. Hopefully early next year we will see a 2nd gen iPad with Retina display (and other features) that will again leave the competition playing catch up. And that's just on the hardware end. Software and app integration I don't see Android or WP7 catching up at all in terms of QUALITY (not quantity) and user experience.

Just my $0.02.

User experience is great. This is more a matter of opinion I think.

[Macfreak7]

Originally Posted by freudling 

User experience is great. This is more a matter of opinion I think.

It's a matter of opinion that matters a heck lot... AppleInsider | PCWorld reliability survey: Apple 'smoked the competition'

Checkmate.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Macfreak7 

It's a matter of opinion that matters a heck lot... AppleInsider | PCWorld reliability survey: Apple 'smoked the competition'

Checkmate.

Android smartphone OS marketshare: 25%
iOS: 17%

Checkmate

[Macfreak7]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Android smartphone OS marketshare: 25%
iOS: 17%

Checkmate

Is that your opinion then?
Regardless tho. that means nothing to the end user. Common sense dictates user experience > marketshare numbers.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Android smartphone OS marketshare: 25%
iOS: 17%

Checkmate

Please stop using the same numbers over and over. It's like you're not reading what others are saying.

[freudling]

We're talking about viability We're talking about competition as in the Tab, with Android.

Media doesn't decide, the market does. The market has spoken. Android has more marketshare than iOS. It's successful from that perspective, regardless of what you or the media think of its problems. From this, along with all the background on this issue, I'm making a prediction and bet that Android will also grab large marketshare in the tablet space moving forward, shared with Apple and WebOS.

Everyone of these guys has their tradeoffs. Apple has better multi touch than Android, but using Apple's stuff comes at a price. Control. It is a problem. Apple's controls the App Store way too much, regardless of what you think the benefits are. We want freedom. We want freedom on the web. We want the freedom to buy a device and decide for ourself what we want to put on it. We don't need Apple telling us what we can and can't read, watch, install, and everything else.

So the user has to decide what kind of tradeoffs they want to make.

To be honest, while I really love the Tab, I'm really wanting WebOS. WebOS for a tablet as it could be is my favorite OS, next to Android/WP7 and then iOS.

For smartphones, it's WP7, then WebOS, then iOS then Android.

[exca1ibur]

Perspective...

iOS Manufacturers
-Apple


Android Phone Manufactures
-HTC
-Samsung
-LG
-Motorola
-Sony Ericsson
-Acer
-Dell
-Huawei
-Panasonic
-Kyocera
-Vodafone
-T-Mobile
-ARCHOS
-Lenovo
-Inbrics
-ZiiLABS
-Saygus
-General Mobile
-Geeksphone
-Amico
-Yuhua
-Yulong
-Kogan

I'm sure there are more, these are just some I found.

---

If Android DIDN'T have a higher marketshare there would be something REALLY wrong. So we can give the marketshare debate a rest. That is a given and always will be. Apple will NEVER have the marketshare as one manufacture, that is a fact and always will be if they continue to be one manfacture. That is not a bad thing in the mobile market where 17% can represent well over 120 million devices. I doubt developers look at that as 'small', plus the fact that the development environment is more cohesive.

Android is working on shear numbers, like Windows did, for it's marketshare. Once they get their development process more cohesive it will get better, but as said before it isn't quite there yet.

I see two successfully different approaches to the same end result. Both models work for each company, so I don't think either one is necessarily bad. Apple has made its success off profit margin always and Android's success is off marketshare.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Perspective...

iOS Manufacturers
-Apple


Android Phone Manufactures
-HTC
-Samsung
-LG
-Motorola
-Sony Ericsson
-Acer
-Dell
-Huawei
-Panasonic
-Kyocera
-Vodafone
-T-Mobile
-ARCHOS
-Lenovo
-Inbrics
-ZiiLABS
-Saygus
-General Mobile
-Geeksphone
-Amico
-Yuhua
-Yulong
-Kogan

I'm sure there are more, these are just some I found.

---

If Android DIDN'T have a higher marketshare there would be something REALLY wrong. So we can give the marketshare debate a rest. That is a given and always will be. Apple will NEVER have the marketshare as one manufacture, that is a fact and always will be if they continue to be one manfacture. That is not a bad thing in the mobile market where 17% can represent well over 120 million devices. I doubt developers look at that as 'small', plus the fact that the development environment is more cohesive.

Android is working on shear numbers, like Windows did, for it's marketshare. Once they get their development process more cohesive it will get better, but as said before it isn't quite there yet.

I see two successfully different approaches to the same end result. Both models work for each company, so I don't think either one is necessarily bad. Apple has made its success off profit margin always and Android's success is off marketshare.

You're right, both models work. Apple is successful and iOS is certainly a viable development platform. No question. As for Android. Developers have spoken. Over 140,000 apps growimg by 20,000 per month. It's equally viable.

That's the reality.

[olePigeon]

If you compare hardware sales and not the OS, Apple is doing excellent compared to the other hardware vendors. Google is copying Microsoft's strategy. No reason not to, it works. However, people constantly compare Apple with Microsoft in terms of market share, instead of Apple versus Dell or Acer. Microsoft doesn't make a computer, and Google doesn't make a phone. Even if Google OS takes over the market, you need perspective: what is the market share of the iPhone versus HTC, not Google?