[moodymonster]

Proposed legislation targets pixelated mayhem and virtual violence; legislators consider acts of cruelty against "human-looking characters" as reason enough to fine, imprison.
...

http://au.gamespot.com/news/6163059....stnews;title;0

unfortunately it's not dated April 1st...

I thought banning violent games was a step too far, but planning on prosecuting people for virtual violence? Whose interests are being served here?

This is completely bizarre, how can someone be punished for something that didn't happen. And what business is it of the gov't what someone does in a game - look at GTA, one of the most popular games, excessively violent but you don't have millions of people running rampage.

Should we imprison actors who act out violence, or people who write about things we don't like, or people who think things we disagree with. This is nuts.

[Dakar²]

It's like Germany believes its a country of psychopaths waiting to become unhinged.

[Doofy]

Eeek! What with the European arrest warrant and the fact that I nuked a city the other week (Civ 3), does that mean I'm going to spend the next 12 months eating sausages?

This is quite possibly one of the most bizarre things I've read for a while.

[Dakar²]

Doesn't seem real, does it?

[TETENAL]

Niedersachsen ≠ Germany
Proposed law ≠ law

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutsc...454024,00.html

[voodoo]

Wolfenstein/RtCW are banned in Germany??!

Germany is the US of Europe.

Only in Germany™

(or possibly Austria as well, but hey)

V

[Kerrigan]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Germany is the US of Europe.

Don't forget UK, they are the US-led poodle. And France is a bit arrogant, like the US. So essentially Europe is the America of Europe.

[badidea]

Originally Posted by moodymonster 

German gov't considers jail time for gamers - Xbox 360 News at GameSpot

unfortunately it's not dated April 1st...

I thought banning violent games was a step too far, but planning on prosecuting people for virtual violence? Whose interests are being served here?

This is completely bizarre, how can someone be punished for something that didn't happen. And what business is it of the gov't what someone does in a game - look at GTA, one of the most popular games, excessively violent but you don't have millions of people running rampage.

Should we imprison actors who act out violence, or people who write about things we don't like, or people who think things we disagree with. This is nuts.

Unfortunately I cannot read this webpage at work (it's filtered) but I guess it's about the completely stupid law proposal from Bavarias (sometimes nuts) minister of the interior Günther Beckstein!?

So far he's 1 out of 80.000.000 Germans who wants this afaik!
And with "this" I mean his proposal to prosecute the production and distribution of banned "killer-games" with up to 1 year of prison or a fine.


edit: damn, I just read TETENAL's link - ok, now we have two retarded ministers of the interior!

[badidea]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Wolfenstein/RtCW are banned in Germany??!

Germany is the US of Europe.

Only in Germany™

(or possibly Austria as well, but hey)

V

Well, yeah, we hate Nazis but we love bizarre PORN!

[moodymonster]

unfortunately my German is very basic and I only had the gamespot article to go on. As I indicated in my initial post I did find it very bizarre and felt there was more to it - so thanks for the German speaking people for pointing out the extra important bits not in the article.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

Don't forget UK, they are the US-led poodle. And France is a bit arrogant, like the US. So essentially Europe is the America of Europe.

People who hate America are just practicing a form of self-hate. America is just a reflection of the rest of the world.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by badidea 

Well, yeah, we hate Nazis

The poor Nazis are segregated.

http://www.spiegel.de/videoplayer/0,6298,13944,00.html

[subego]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

Niedersachsen ≠ Germany

Can you explain this?

I googled for Niedersachsen, went to the home page and get this translation:

"Welcomely in the Internet portal of the federal state government of Lower Saxony"

Federal state government? As an American, I find this confusing. Where's Lower Saxony? I get the impression it's centered on Bremen, right?

[analogika]

I would have thought that the concept of states as a part of a federal republic should be *somewhat* familiar to the Americans among the readers...



Bremen is its own state, as are Hamburg and Berlin. We have 16 of them:

Schleswig-Holstein
Hamburg
Bremen
Mecklenburg-Vorpommern
Berlin
Brandenburg
Niedersachsen
Sachsen
Sachsen-Anhalt
Bayern
Baden-Württemberg
Hessen
Rheinland-Pfalz
Nordrhein-Westfalen
Thüringen
Saarland

[subego]

Originally Posted by analogika 

I would have thought that the concept of states as a part of a federal republic should be *somewhat* familiar to the Americans among the readers...

None of the states have a "federal" government. "Federal" pertains specifically to the... well... federal government. The government for the entire nation. The term is used to distinguish it from state government or local (city/county) government.

P.S. and I don't know if you noticed, assuming things in Europe are the same or similar to things in America is not looked fondly upon by fern'ers.

[analogika]

Note the winky.

And the translation is not incorrect, but unfortunate:

You were on the page of the government of the federal state of Lower Saxony.

All clear?

[olePigeon]

"Germany" wasn't a country until 1990. Before then, they were separate states. Now they're states within the country, kinda like the U.S.

Edit: Here's a wikipedia: States of Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[subego]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Note the winky.

Sorry, I came off more narky than I intended.

Originally Posted by analogika 

And the translation is not incorrect, but unfortunate:

You were on the page of the government of the federal state of Lower Saxony.

All clear?

Ah! Makes sense.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by subego 

Can you explain this?

Sorry, I should have said Lower Saxony.
Only the minister of the interior of Lower Saxony proposes to outlaw the possession of "killer-games". Not even Bavaria's minister of the interior (currently the two guys who propose such a law) wants possession illegal. He wants to outlaw production and distribution. Outlawing "committing violence in video games" is nonsense. It's a sensationalization of the proposal by gamespot.

Most Germans understand that outlawing "killer-games" is not going to solve anything. It's just typical political activism of the conservatives. Those who commit the school-shootings have other problems to begin with of which is playing killer-games is an effect, not the cause of. Such a law will probably not come through.

Some games are not for kids though, I would say.

I googled for Niedersachsen, went to the home page and get this translation:

"Welcomely in the Internet portal of the federal state government of Lower Saxony"

Federal state government? As an American, I find this confusing.

Lower Saxony is a federal state. It has a government. They updated the website to get rid off the confusing title it seems. It now says: "Welcome to the English website of the Lower Saxony state government"

http://www.international.niedersachsen.de/en/home.html

[analogika]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

"Germany" wasn't a country until 1990. Before then, they were separate states. Now they're states within the country, kinda like the U.S.

Edit: Here's a wikipedia: States of Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Woah there.

West Germany was the "Federal Republic of Germany" from 1949 until 1990, and it was comprised of 11 states during that time. The former "German Democratic Republic" (East Germany) brought five states into the mix in reunification, so that there are now 16 - though there's been talk of fusing some of them for administrative/financial reasons.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

"Germany" wasn't a country until 1990.

1871

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

1871

I meant Germany of today. That's like saying the Roman Empire is Italy.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Eeek! What with the European arrest warrant and the fact that I nuked a city the other week (Civ 3), does that mean I'm going to spend the next 12 months eating sausages?

What's a European arrest warrant? Is that some sort of uber warrant that any government of the EU can issue against any EU citizen?

[Powerbook]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

What's a European arrest warrant? Is that some sort of uber warrant that any government of the EU can issue against any EU citizen?

The warrant can be executed in (most) of the European states. The multilateral dependencies are coordinated by e.g. Europol.

Oh, and it's über. These tiny dots actually mean something. If you have no fast access to Umlaut-characters, you can substitute them in combination with "e": ü = ue, ö=oe , etc. Brush is different to Bush, right?


Regards
Powerbook

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

"Germany" wasn't a country until 1990. Before then, they were separate states. Now they're states within the country, kinda like the U.S.

Edit: Here's a wikipedia: States of Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, I wasn't born in Marburg, Germany, in 1947? News to me.

[analogika]

'Twas a different Germany then.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by KarlG 

So, I wasn't born in Marburg, Germany, in 1947? News to me.

Wouldn't that be West Germany?

I'm probably wrong here and I'm digging a hole for myself, but that's at least how I understood it.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

What's a European arrest warrant? Is that some sort of uber warrant that any government of the EU can issue against any EU citizen?

Yep, that's exactly what it is.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Wouldn't that be West Germany?

I'm probably wrong here and I'm digging a hole for myself, but that's at least how I understood it.

You've linked to wikipedia before, man...

From the surrender until 1949, Marburg wasn't West Germany, it was in the U.S. occupation zone.

[mac1896]

What if you were playing a character in the 1700s....... ?

Wouldn't the Statute of Limitations have run out ?

What about the Distant future....?

Surely you couldn't be charged with a crime that hasn't happened yet ?



Those bas***ds just won't be happy until the only game we can play is "Hello Kitty: Island Adventure".

[analogika]

Read the thread and try again.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

I meant Germany of today.

The Germany of today is the same country as the Germany of 1871.

[analogika]

Ummm....can of worms there.

Short answer: Possibly.

Long answer: Probably not, in most any sense.

[mac1896]

Originally Posted by mac1896 

What if you were playing a character in the 1700s and committed violence against a person of that same time period....... ?

Wouldn't the Statute of Limitations have run out by now ?

What about a game scenario in which you do bodily harm to others in a Distant future....?

Surely you couldn't be charged with a crime that hasn't happened yet (because it happened in a virtual distant future) ?



Those bas***ds just won't be happy until the only game we can play is "Hello Kitty: Island Adventure".

Fixed.

For clarification.

[Kerrigan]

Amazon.com: The Clumsiest People in Europe: Or, Mrs. Mortimer's Bad-Tempered Guide to the Victorian World: Books: Todd Pruzan

Originally posted by Mrs Mortimer:

England-They are not very pleasant in company, because they do not like strangers.

Wales-Though the Welsh are not very clean, they make their cottages look clean by whitewashing them.

Scotland-You would not like the sound of their bagpipes.

Ireland-There are no huts in the world so miserable as the Irish huts or cabins.

France-They like being smart, but are not very clean.

Spain-The Spaniards are not only but idle, but also very cruel.

Germany-They do not often make tea, nor do they know well how to make it.

Poland-The Jews are not idle like the Poles, but they try in every way to get money.

Holland-They cannot help but make noise with their feet, as they wear wooden shoes.

Belgium-I shall not say much about Belgium, because it is so much like the countries on either side.

Sweden-There is not a country in Europe where so many people are put in prison.

Norway-People who are dainty must not come to Norway.

Turkey in Asia-How dreadful it should be if our churches are ever turned into mosques.

Hindostan-Hindoo ladies are not even taught those trifling accomplishments which Chinese ladies learn.

Burmah-The Burmese are very deceitful, and tell lies on every occasion.

Japan-Very wicked customs are observed in Japan.

Australia-The people are the children of convicts, and have been brought up very ill by their parents.

The United States-Washington is one of the most desolate cities of the world.

Mexico-The poor people of Mexico cannot bear working, and bring up their children in idleness.

hope you all enjoy, that took a while to type

[analogika]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

It's the official standpoint of Germany, that the Germany if today is the same state as the Germany of 1871.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechtsl..._und_Bedeutung

Actually, your link explains quite clearly why my short answer ("possibly") is absolutely correct, though my "long answer" ("probably not, in most any sense") isn't.

Nothing in the link you post indicates any "official standpoint", AFAICS.

The only people I've seen who insist on this are those who use it as legitimation for demanding a Germany with the territorial borders of 1935.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Nothing in the link you post indicates any "official standpoint", AFAICS.

"Vieles spricht für den Fortbestand des Deutschen Reiches in Gestalt der Bundesrepublik Deutschland. Davon geht auch die herrschende Meinung in der Rechtswissenschaft aus, genau wie die für sie sprechenden Organe der Bundesrepublik Deutschland."

The only people I've seen who insist on this are those who use it as legitimation for demanding a Germany with the territorial borders of 1935.

It indisputably was the the same state from 1871 to 1945 where it changed its territorial borders a lot. It can still be the same state today with different borders than 1935 or any other random point in time before.

Either way, it doesn't matter really. olePigeon is wrong, because Germany exists as a nation state since 1871 whether you see it as German Reich followed by the Federal Republic of Germany or just Germany.

[moodymonster]

Never really thought about German not being one big country (notwithstanding the Cold War years). Always thought it was Germany in one way or another. The UK had German troops during the Napoleonic wars (Kings's German Legion - to go with our German Royal family ). So they weren't strictly German in the modern sense, but rather from a region in Germany?

[moodymonster]

German food is good, very good - and cheap. And beer. And I've found them to be friendly, and speak excellent English.

I think I've been to Holland, or Belgium - got a bit scared in a unisex toilet - thought I'd gone into the ladies by mistake and was going to be done as a sex pest in a foreign country when dozens of schoolgirls and their teacher came in while I was at the urinal. Prompting a very confused me thinking, why is no one bothered I'm in here, and why have urinals in the ladies.

[Kerrigan]

Also, having 3 of my 4 grandparents from Germany/Austria (and the fourth is Irish American... hence the name) I take offense at any insults directed towards Germans.

Although voodoo is right in some regards: Germans are characterized by self loathing and deep seated issues. I'm a huge closet-case self loathing, self righteous bastard, and while this may have something to do with my homosexual tendencies, it also seems to be a characterization shared by my other German friends.

[analogika]

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by badidea 

So this is a one-sided love between us? Oh well...

Ah badidea, I must emphasize on the word 'met'. In person. I really haven't met any German I can consider completely sane, except that one. Two narcisstic twin girls with Italian parents, one narcisistic 'bling-bling' carrying German who considered himself Turkish, one female lawyer who almost attacked me when I refused to tip at a restaurant, one introvert, pot-smoking student of meterology who confided in my that he worships the sea (as in a deity but not), one leather wearing construction worker who always sniffs his amphetamins after cutting them up in a swastica... the list goes on and on.

These are the Germans that I have met in person and got to know..

V

[Dakar²]

That's a quality crowd you attract there, captain.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

He's an Icelander living in Spain. You're getting him confused with Erik, the Norwegian living in Australia

Most correct. Although a part of me in Norwegian.

V

[Sky Captain]

I pissed off my share when I was stationed there.
And I'm German! (well by decent. 1904 immigrants)

One thing I can add is that from my experiance is the German women are nymphomaniacs.

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

You did.

V

While my genius is deep, I can not wholly take credit for the vast menu my peoples are known for.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

While my genius is deep, I can not wholly take credit for the vast menu my peoples are known for.

Oh, I thought you meant in this thread.

US Americans came up with 'Italian' food as it is known today. Actual Italian food isn't all that. American pizzas and pastas are far better than actual Italian ones.

It was all improved upon in the US and made good. Much like Chinese, Mexican and a number of other 'ethnic' food.

Actual Italian food isn't very good, but with the right attitude and American influence it can be very good.

V

[Sky Captain]

But food in Germany and France is GREAT!

[badidea]

What???? Are you telling me that the worlds best pizza that my man Mario made (when I was living in Munich), was inspired by the way Americans make their pizza?

NEVER!!

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Oh, I thought you meant in this thread.

US Americans came up with 'Italian' food as it is known today. Actual Italian food isn't all that. American pizzas and pastas are far better than actual Italian ones.

It was all improved upon in the US and made good. Much like Chinese, Mexican and a number of other 'ethnic' food.

Actual Italian food isn't very good, but with the right attitude and American influence it can be very good.

V

Food heretic!