[Species 8472]

Apple PowerBook G4
15.2-inch TFT XGA display
667MHz PowerPC G4
256K L2 cache (at 667MHz)
512MB SDRAM memory
30GB Ultra ATA drive
DVD/CD-RW drive
ATI RADEON Mobility
16MB DDR video memory
Gigabit Ethernet
56K internal modem
AirPort Card
€4.268,78


Dell Inspiron 8200 1700UT (82003i5a)
P4 1,7GHz Processor-M with Enhanced Intel SpeedStep
15" TFT UXGA+(1600x1200)
64MB DDR nVidia Geforce 4-440 GO 4xAGP 3D
512MB 266MHz DDR-SDRAM
40GB ATA-100 HDD
CD-RW/DVD COMBO
MS Win XP Home & MS Works 6.0
Internal 56k V.92 Modem & 10/100 NIC
€4.000,59

The PBG4 specs are starting to look a little bit pale compared to PC:s. I can wait for a new laptop until July. Do you think a new PBG4 with at least a 1GHz processor will be out by then?

[MickS]

This "my CPU is faster than your CPU" stuff harks back to the school playground "my Dad is bigger than your Dad".

When buy a computer you can guarantee that it is already obsolescent, a new faster one is just around the corner. If it is important to have the fastest computer on the block (with go faster stripes, lowered suspension, fat tyres etc) buy the PC. Instead look at the options that will suit your needs. Is it fast enough for you to be productive in whatever you need to do on it? If the answer is yes then buy it.

I would expect a new PowerBook at around MWNY as it fits Apple's upgrade time scale. Whether it will be 1GHz depends on how far the G4 has developed by then. Processor speed is not the limiting factor though, bus speed, memory access are equally important. A modest increase in CPU speed (say 800 Mhz) with a doubling of bus/ram speed would make much more difference than simply dropping a 1GHz chip in.

I like my G4 667. I know that at the moment it's the best Mac laptop available, but it's unlikely to be in six months. That doesn't stop the laptop being good enough for what I want to do.

[art_director]

If you go by the specs the Ti may pale but then again, if a PC won't do what you need then faster isn't better.

I LOVE my Ti667. So it's not 1GB, who cares? It does what I need with efficiency and it's a great computer. In fact, it's my third PowerBook (second Ti). In all three cases I've loved my PowerBook.

Listen to MickS, he's giving you sound advice.

[C33]

Originally posted by Species 8472:
<STRONG>Apple PowerBook G4
ATI RADEON Mobility
16MB DDR video memory


Dell Inspiron 8200 1700UT (82003i5a)
64MB DDR nVidia Geforce 4-440 GO 4xAGP 3D


The PBG4 specs are starting to look a little bit pale compared to PC:s. I can wait for a new laptop until July. Do you think a new PBG4 with at least a 1GHz processor will be out by then?</STRONG>

To me it doesn't have to do so much with higher MHZ so much as overall featureset and the Ti is starting to get a little long in the tooth compared to it's PC counterparts. the Ti's graphics card alone is laughable when you comapare it to Dell's. I hope they do something about that at MWNY ... or sooner.

[ 03-21-2002: Message edited by: C33 ]

[rhansen_x]

Go ahead and buy the PC. Sucker.

[I Have Questions]

Hmmm... is the Dell 1" thick? No? Didn't think so. Carry around a brick if you want to...

[rampant]

Ok, then get the 1.3 inch thick compaq one. Costs less too.

[Species 8472]

COMPAQ PRESARIO 2800 Series
Mobile Intel� Pentium� 4 Processor - 1.7GHz - M
256MB 266MHz DDR SDRAM (1 Dimm)
30.0GB UltraDMA Hard Drive
8X DVD/CDRW Combo Drive (MultiBay)
15.0" TFT SXGA+ Active Matrix Display
64MB DDR ATI Mobility� RADEON� 7500 with HW Accelerated 3D Graphics
56K ITU V.92 PCI modem with 10/100 NIC
Two (2) High-speed USB 2.0 ports
Windows XP Home Edition
1.3" x 12.48" x 10.1" 5.4 lbs.

The only thing that is holding me back is the fact that it can't run OS X.

[oeyvind]

Now, folks... most(or even all) PC notebook do not even have an option for 1GB of RAM, right? And their battery life... not very impressive too.

I love my Ti 667...^^

[ 03-22-2002: Message edited by: oeyvind ]

[msykes]

Originally posted by MickS:
<STRONG>
I would expect a new PowerBook at around MWNY as it fits Apple's upgrade time scale..</STRONG>

First of all... I'll keep my Lombard 333 MHz over any Dell or Compaq ever made.

However, I think it's the above statement that's the problem... The Titanium was updated in October (no, the combo drive doesn't count). If MWNY July really fits in the upgrade schedule, well what the heck, that's 9 months later!

I really do think Apple should make an effort to revise it's products more often than every 9 months - at least every 6 months

I read one post over at macrumors.com that almost made sense.... maybe Apple is waiting on Bluetooth integration to release the next powerbook - with the first bluetooth device introduced, maybe a new, revised, bluetooth incorporating Titanium won't be far behind.

[MickS]

the Ti's graphics card alone is laughable when you comapare it to Dell's.

Let's see. The card can drive the internal display and a large resolution external display in millions of colours. Does the fact that the Dell has a newer graphics card with more VRAM make any difference in day to day use? Unlikely for all but a small number of people (or gamers - but who buy's a laptop for it's gaming potential?).

As I tried to say in my earlier post if a computer is fast enough for your needs it doesn't matter whether there is a faster machine (in any aspect) out there. IMO speed is one of the worst indicators for choosing a computer, especially a laptop. Obviously it must be fast enough for your needs but the quality of display and keyboard are as important and frequently overlooked.

I really do think Apple should make an effort to revise it's products more often than every 9 months - at least every 6 months

People are already talking of putting off purchases until after MWNY in case there is an update. If they updated more often these people would be unable to make their purchase as their pride and joy would be top of the heap for less time

Seriously I think that there are inventory reasons for not updating the ranges quicker.

[mitchell_pgh]

Apple PowerBook G4
15.2-inch TFT XGA display
667MHz PowerPC G4
256K L2 cache (at 667MHz)
512MB SDRAM memory
30GB Ultra ATA drive
DVD/CD-RW drive
ATI RADEON Mobility
16MB DDR video memory
Gigabit Ethernet
56K internal modem
AirPort Card
�4.268,78


Dell Inspiron 8200 1700UT (82003i5a)
P4 1,7GHz Processor-M with Enhanced Intel SpeedStep
15" TFT UXGA+(1600x1200)
64MB DDR nVidia Geforce 4-440 GO 4xAGP 3D
512MB 266MHz DDR-SDRAM
40GB ATA-100 HDD
CD-RW/DVD COMBO
MS Win XP Home & MS Works 6.0
Internal 56k V.92 Modem & 10/100 NIC
�4.000,59


Actually this makes the Apple look great. The Dell is crap, but has 10 more Gig's of HD space, and a faster processor... they use faster RAM, but who cares about that.

I also don't see anything about Dual Firewire on the Dell... Also, no iMovie, iTunes, iPhoto...

There is also a thing called "Windows XP" on the system... Sounds like a virus...

[Species 8472]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
<STRONG>Actually this makes the Apple look great. The Dell is crap, but has 10 more Gig's of HD space, and a faster processor... they use faster RAM, but who cares about that.

I also don't see anything about Dual Firewire on the Dell... Also, no iMovie, iTunes, iPhoto...

There is also a thing called "Windows XP" on the system... Sounds like a virus...</STRONG>

If Dell is crap then Apple is even crappier. For example I have never heard that the display hinges have broken on a Dell laptop. My Wallstreet hinges have broken and I have read about hinge problems on the TiBook. I agree with you that Windows XP sounds like a virus, I hate Microsoft too, but XP is not as bad as Windows used to be.

Dell has got one Firewire port. Last time I checked Apples website the TiBook had only one Firewire port.

[msykes]

Originally posted by MickS:
<STRONG>

People are already talking of putting off purchases until after MWNY in case there is an update. If they updated more often these people would be unable to make their purchase as their pride and joy would be top of the heap for less time

Seriously I think that there are inventory reasons for not updating the ranges quicker.</STRONG>

Yeah, there are inventory reasons - Apple never really did get the whole inventory thing figured out.

Still, the faster Apple updates the Ti, the faster they get my money and a lot of other people's. If people are only going to buy after an update, then it makes sense to have more updates, not fewer!

[mrfoxxman]

Originally posted by Species 8472:
<STRONG>

If Dell is crap then Apple is even crappier. For example I have never heard that the display hinges have broken on a Dell laptop. My Wallstreet hinges have broken and I have read about hinge problems on the TiBook. .</STRONG>

WEll buddy, maybe you shouldnt make claims that are so retarded. My father-in-laws Dell [actually the last 3 he's had] Cracked and broke in the hinge and in a number of other places. Actually Dell fixxed the problem 2 times on his current system. and It broke AGAIN!!!

Every computer manufacturer out there has SOME problems in manufacturing. I have seen far less in Apple than others... so shut up. [/RANT]

[ 03-22-2002: Message edited by: mrfoxxman ]

[Species 8472]

Originally posted by mrfoxxman:
<STRONG>

WEll buddy, maybe you shouldnt make claims that are so retarded. My father-in-laws Dell [actually the last 3 he's had] Cracked and broke in the hinge and in a number of other places. Actually Dell fixxed the problem 2 times on his current system. and It broke AGAIN!!!

Every computer manufacturer out there has SOME problems in manufacturing. I have seen far less in Apple than others... so shut up. [/RANT]

[ 03-22-2002: Message edited by: mrfoxxman ]</STRONG>

At least Dell fixed the problem. Apple won't even sell me the hinges so that I could fix it myself.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want a Dell or any other PC crap. I want a Mac but the current situation does'nt look very good for Apple. Apple used to talk about the Megaherz myth, are they going to start talking about the Gigaherz myth now? If I would get a TiBook 667 now, how the hell would I explain to my pc lovin friends that a 667 is actually faster than a 1.7GHz Pentium IV, which it is not. It's not only about the processor speed but the memory and graphic chips are much slower on the mac. Then there is the system bus which is 100MHz on the TiBook compared to 400 MHz on the new Pentium IV systems. Apple is probably loosing sales because of this, at least they won't get my money until they have a GHz+ processor in the TiBook. I think that a pro laptop should be faster than an iMac.

[walter99]

At least Dell fixed the problem. Apple won't even sell me the hinges so that I could fix it myself.

Yeah, Dell does sell you replacement parts. But at least here in Europe they charge you about 500$ for a tiny little screw. That doesn't sound like a bargain to me though...

To all those people out there coming up with P4 notebooks: have you ever looked at their battery-lives? Come on - I wouldn't call such thing a notebook, if I always have to carry around a power-supply or multiple battery packs to get my work done.

Just my 2 cents

Walter

[ 03-23-2002: Message edited by: walter99 ]

[Species 8472]

Originally posted by walter99:
<STRONG>

Yeah, Dell does sell you replacement parts. But at least here in Europe they charge you about 500$ for a tiny little screw. That doesn't sound like a bargain to me though...

To all those people out there coming up with P4 notebooks: have you ever looked at their battery-lives? Come on - I wouldn't call such thing a notebook, if I always have to carry around a power-supply or multiple battery packs to get my work done.

Just my 2 cents

Walter

[ 03-23-2002: Message edited by: walter99 ]</STRONG>

If you are worried about battery lives then an iBook would be much more suitable for you. Do you actually want Apple to stay at 667MHz forever so that you don't have to carry around a power-supply?

[christ]

Originally posted by Species 8472:
<STRONG>Apple PowerBook G4
15.2-inch TFT XGA display
667MHz PowerPC G4
256K L2 cache (at 667MHz)
512MB SDRAM memory
30GB Ultra ATA drive
DVD/CD-RW drive
ATI RADEON Mobility
16MB DDR video memory
Gigabit Ethernet
56K internal modem
AirPort Card
�4.268,78


Dell Inspiron 8200 1700UT (82003i5a)
P4 1,7GHz Processor-M with Enhanced Intel SpeedStep
15" TFT UXGA+(1600x1200)
64MB DDR nVidia Geforce 4-440 GO 4xAGP 3D
512MB 266MHz DDR-SDRAM
40GB ATA-100 HDD
CD-RW/DVD COMBO
MS Win XP Home & MS Works 6.0
Internal 56k V.92 Modem & 10/100 NIC
�4.000,59

The PBG4 specs are starting to look a little bit pale compared to PC:s. I can wait for a new laptop until July. Do you think a new PBG4 with at least a 1GHz processor will be out by then?</STRONG>

Have you ever used either?

I have an Inspiron 8100 1.2GHz (old hat, it was bought last month) running XP Pro, and a TiPB 667 MHz, running mainly X 10.1.3. They are both almost plain vanilla machines, with 512 Mb RAM and Office installed on both. The functionality is similar. The speeds are almost indistinguishable for most stuff. Processor speed cannot be used to choose between them for anything that I do. Ignoring the obvious X vs XP arguments, the differences that matter to me are:

IR doesn't work with my mobile phone from the 'book, but works perfectly with the Dell.

I don't play modern games, as I haven't the required dexterity, but for photoshop, surfing and office tasks the 'book is just as good, and way cooler. iTunes and quicktime between them beat the cr*p out of windows media player.

The Dell feels like a kids toy, made out of that plastic that they use for just about everything in Toys R Us. It creaks when you compressit. The latch on the lid doesn't work very well. The 'book is solid, and the latch on the lid works _and_ is cool.

Networking with a windows network is easier on the Dell, but possible on the 'book (although I can't print to printers shared from the parallel port of a PC without additional software). There are hardly any printer drivers for X, and using a generic driver sucks.

Networking between two 'books flies. Gigabit Ethernet is great.

Airport is great too. i'm sure that the Dell could do wireless networking too, but not out of the box. It's a shame that I haven't got any games that work over the airport to show off with, but wireless file transfer is cool.

The wintel crew still use floppies a lot (mostly with NT boxes that can't use USB), and the external VST floppy drive on the 'book is deathly slow. I need a faster floppy drive on the mac.

The 'book is light, the Dell weighs a ton. This is a killer.

1600 x 1200 sounds good, but is impossible to read if you are over 17, and when you set the resolution to anything else, the Dell display sucks. The resolution of the 'book is a bit blocky, but it is always readable.

The battery in the booklasts about 50% longer than the one in the Dell (unscientific testing only, but doing similar sort of stuff)

The Dell is way louder.

None of the differences that Apple lose on relate to processor or RAM speed. Uprating the Dell to 1.7 GHz sounds like a waste of time to me, as would upgrading the 'book to 1 GHz.

The Dell dock is really useful. I can keep a dock, monitor keyboard and mouse on my desk, and the Dell integrates with it like they were meant to work together. I have a bookendz for the 'book, but it is a kludge, and is not integrated at all well. Besides that, the 'book won't work with the lid closed (I don't have a keyboard with a power key). definitely one to Dell.

What I would like to see is even better support for Wintel integration (print drivers, ir, scanner drivers, network print sharing) rather than gratuitous faffing around in marketing ever bigger numbers. Working with a dock properly is a must.

The Apple wins, both for me and most casual onlookers, because it is small, light and looks great. I can carry it all over without a pack horse, and do everything I want, as fast as I want to. Even the power supply looks cool.

My final word - Use these things and then decide, don't just read the specs and complain.