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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > Buy a PowerBook? Are you nuts?

Buy a PowerBook? Are you nuts?
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madmanXwater
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Oct 12, 2005, 04:17 PM
 
After todays update to the iMac G5, I think you would have to be nuts to buy a PowerBook right know! The 17" (which I have) is the worst value in Apple's lineup, almost the most money for the slowest machine. I would find a way to move around an iMac (or buy two) long before I spend a dime on the PowerBooks. Unless you "must" have an Apple laptop, send them a message and don't buy one until things change big time!!

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Randman
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Oct 12, 2005, 09:22 PM
 
Rumors are that a PB bump will happen next week.

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PeterKG
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Oct 12, 2005, 09:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by Randman
Rumors are that a PB bump will happen next week.
Rumors were that a PB bump was supposed to be today. Apple sucks the way they play games with their loyal customers. It's all about iPods anymore with them. Everything else takes a back seat.
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driven
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Oct 12, 2005, 09:35 PM
 
How so?

The professional machines for the past few updates were always done with far less fanfare than the consumer machines. That doesn't mean that they are "in the back seat".
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SpaceMonkey
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Oct 12, 2005, 09:44 PM
 
Some people actually need portability. They'd be crazy to buy an iMac, no matter what its specs were.
     
robisconfusedd
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Oct 12, 2005, 09:53 PM
 
i need portability but i also need power to be able to do things better (more accurate, and TONS faster) in final cut, ect... the current powerbook just isnt cutting it anymore.....


i hope rumors are right im really interested to see what they do with the powerbook update..
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DKeithA
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Oct 12, 2005, 10:17 PM
 
I totally agree that anyone would be nuts to buy the current Powerbook configs. The fact that the 'professional' laptops have not been updated after all this time is inexcusable. Apple needs to stop being all about the iPod.
     
jamil5454
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Oct 12, 2005, 10:20 PM
 
Apple is making a huge profit on the whole iPod deal.

Look at it as an investment that will give them a bigger budget to do more things.
     
PeterKG
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Oct 12, 2005, 10:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by jamil5454
Apple is making a huge profit on the whole iPod deal.

Look at it as an investment that will give them a bigger budget to do more things.
It hasn't yet.
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PeterKG
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Oct 12, 2005, 10:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by jamil5454
Apple is making a huge profit on the whole iPod deal.

Look at it as an investment that will give them a bigger budget to do more things.
It hasn't yet. Unless it's iPod related.
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DKeithA
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Oct 12, 2005, 10:36 PM
 
That's a good way to look at it, but there just isn't a very good excuse for letting the Pro line languish as they are.
     
Pao|o
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Oct 12, 2005, 10:47 PM
 
I dont think the new Powerbooks will be released by next week. I say this because it wasnt announced during the Oct 12 event. The new iPod will ship a week from now so it would be safe to say that Apple is either pacing itself or having some sort of production problem that prevents them from shipping immediatly or in a week's time.

My fearless guess is a new Powerbook will come out with Superdrives all 2-4 weeks from now.
     
Tesseract
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Oct 12, 2005, 11:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Pao|o
I dont think the new Powerbooks will be released by next week. I say this because it wasnt announced during the Oct 12 event.
I think the PB wasn't released today because Apple doesn't usually overwhelm with a huge variety of updates at Stevenotes and special events. They typically are (as this one was) more focused.

A quieter update of PBs and PMs in the next 1-2 weeks makes sense.
Especially since the iMac now has PCIe and the PowerMac does not. This imbalance will be corrected soon.

Also, they have to release within a couple of weeks in order to start shipping in time for the holiday season. Apparently Steve said today that there are going to be more updates for the holiday season, and presumably these are pro Mac updates since the iMac and mini were just updated, the iBook was upgraded only two months ago, and the entire iPod line (except shuffle) has been refreshed over the last three weeks.
     
madmanXwater  (op)
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Oct 12, 2005, 11:32 PM
 
We can speculate all we want, but we just don't know all the factors that go into both engineering and producing PowerBooks. Apple does. From a pure performance/value/specs point of view, the new iMac is a great deal. If Apple would take the guts of the iMac and put it into a "big laptop case", I for one would lug it around. That's my point!! The "one inch thin" style of the PowerBook is not that big of a deal to me. A "two inch thin" iMac laptop would be just fantastic if you ask me. There's a market opportunity for someone! Make a latop conversion kit for the iMac and solve all my issues with the current PowerBook. Just remember, it was my idea.

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Pao|o
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Oct 12, 2005, 11:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Tesseract
I think the PB wasn't released today because Apple doesn't usually overwhelm with a huge variety of updates at Stevenotes and special events. They typically are (as this one was) more focused.

A quieter update of PBs and PMs in the next 1-2 weeks makes sense.
Especially since the iMac now has PCIe and the PowerMac does not. This imbalance will be corrected soon.

Also, they have to release within a couple of weeks in order to start shipping in time for the holiday season. Apparently Steve said today that there are going to be more updates for the holiday season, and presumably these are pro Mac updates since the iMac and mini were just updated, the iBook was upgraded only two months ago, and the entire iPod line (except shuffle) has been refreshed over the last three weeks.
True but Apple's spending a bundle doing the Oct 12 event and I'd think Steve would want to pump up just depressed stock prices. Best way to do that is introducing new products. I'm also guessing that new PBs & PMs will not have as dramatic an update like the iMac.

But we're both right when we say PBs & PMs will be updated before Christmas & I hope the update will dramatically good enough for the pro line than what they did for the iBook.

I've figured why Apple did a silent update. Other than the obvious Osbourne effect, eMac sales would've plummeted further when you compare the silently updated spec of the $699 Mac Mini vs the phased out $799 eMac. I'm guessing they're keeping the eMac around for GOV & EDU customers who buy computers in bulk. Makes it worth Apple's while as the eMac appears to be the Mac with the smallest margin among all the lines.

Again this is pure speculation.
     
iREZ
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Oct 13, 2005, 12:45 PM
 
i think the next ipod is going to go G5 or Intel before the powerbook.
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Tesseract
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Oct 13, 2005, 01:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by iREZ
i think the next ipod is going to go G5 or Intel before the powerbook.
5G is just as good.
     
Fusion
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Oct 13, 2005, 02:08 PM
 
I too am in the same boat. Waiting to buy a new Powerbook. I am using my wife's iBook right now after selling my previous Powerbook and I am getting tired of waiting.

However, you guys are overlooking one thing:

Most of the rumors stemmed from the fact that 10.4.3 alluded to PowerBook and PowerMac models not out yet. One could assume this means the new hardware needs new drivers that are found in 10.4.3. However, 10.4.3 is being released to developers all the time and it STILL has issues they have not worked out yet.

I would venture to guess we will see a PB updated right after 10.4.3.

However.... I am in the same boat and am almost ready to go buy a new one today and then just sell it if a newer one comes out soon.

Cheers,

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Eug Wanker
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Oct 13, 2005, 02:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey
Some people actually need portability. They'd be crazy to buy an iMac, no matter what its specs were.
Indeed, I had both. I no longer have my PowerBook, but that's because I replaced it with an iBook, so I still have a desktop and a laptop. If I HAD to choose between a laptop and a desktop though, I'd choose the laptop. In certain situations, I need something that is portable, and well, the iMac isn't.

But yeah, unless you're on a tight deadline, I think it's nuts to buy a PowerBook today. I would expect it to be updated fairly soon. It's sad when the iBook has better specs (GPU, built-in memory) than the 12" PowerBook.
     
iREZ
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Oct 13, 2005, 05:32 PM
 
how does an ibook have a better GPU than the powerbook when the powerbook has twice the VRAM. even though the Nvidia is old...it still supports coreimage so im just wondering why the GPU in the ibook is better.
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Oct 13, 2005, 07:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by iREZ
how does an ibook have a better GPU than the powerbook when the powerbook has twice the VRAM. even though the Nvidia is old...it still supports coreimage so im just wondering why the GPU in the ibook is better.
I don't know exactly how the mobile chips are clocked, but in desktop trim the ATi 9500 is about 50% faster than the nVidia 5200.
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ew6050
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Oct 13, 2005, 07:29 PM
 
One interesting note on a PB upgrade bein imminent. I need a portable Mac right now and waited until after 10/12 to see if there was a new announcement and given none I have tried to buy the 15" Ultimate Powerbook (100GB HD, 1GB RAM, 128MB VRAM) at three of Apple's stores here in SF: San Francisco, Palo Alto, and Burlingame. Not one has one in stock and SF, one of Apple's largest stores from a sales POV, has no 15" PowerBooks of any configuration.
     
tavilach
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Oct 13, 2005, 10:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by PeterKG
Rumors were that a PB bump was supposed to be today. Apple sucks the way they play games with their loyal customers. It's all about iPods anymore with them. Everything else takes a back seat.
First of all, they don't care about us, so don't ever think that they do.

Second of all, I think they're focusing even more on iPods than normal in order to distract people from the iBooks and PowerBooks. Well, that could be 5% of their reasoning. It sort of makes sense, as they don't want to improve the line-up much until t3h int3l.
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Kenstee
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Oct 13, 2005, 10:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by ew6050
One interesting note on a PB upgrade bein imminent. I need a portable Mac right now and waited until after 10/12 to see if there was a new announcement and given none I have tried to buy the 15" Ultimate Powerbook (100GB HD, 1GB RAM, 128MB VRAM) at three of Apple's stores here in SF: San Francisco, Palo Alto, and Burlingame. Not one has one in stock and SF, one of Apple's largest stores from a sales POV, has no 15" PowerBooks of any configuration.

This is a typically a BTO configuration not stocked in stores. You can get a PB with these specs via the Apple Store with delivery to you from 5 to 7 buisness days.
     
templetalker
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Oct 13, 2005, 11:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kenstee
This is a typically a BTO configuration not stocked in stores. You can get a PB with these specs via the Apple Store with delivery to you from 5 to 7 buisness days.
I don't need a new powerbook, but I certainly agree with someone's post, that "they don't care about you" dealy. It's true, unfortunatley the bigger the company gets the smaller their appreciation towards faithful customers exudes. When it comes down to it the GAP and Abercrombie and Fitch sell more clothes for cheaper because it carries the "label," not because it costs more and is higher quality.
     
CoachU
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Oct 16, 2005, 07:28 PM
 
Bought a PB two months ago and I'm quite satisfied with speeds I get in photoshop, illustrator, and the such. I needed portablilty. Anyway, you dont want to buy first generation of G5 since they probably will be full of bugs, as it always happens on new model release, which leads us in a while for the model to be stable and bug-free. I say if you need portability, buy a PB now since they are reliable and... almost bug free.
     
olePigeon
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Oct 17, 2005, 03:28 PM
 
Seeing how the G5 wasn't going anywhere near portables and Apple was going to make a platform jump (though, I really thought it'd be Cell, but turned out to be Intel) I bought my PowerBook just under a year ago. I've been more than happy with it, and next paycheck I'm gonna snag some AppleCare for it to last me another 2 years. By then I'll be ready to pick up whatever Intel based PowerBook they have then.

If you don't have one yet, I'd wait until Wednesday, and if no PowerBook comes out, grab one anyway. Check Craig's List or eBay, maybe you can get a really good deal.
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far200
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Oct 18, 2005, 02:01 AM
 
Well I have to say, when was the last time you saw a imac used on a 3 HR plane ride... well I'll say never...... So with that said, yes the powerbook does need an upgrade but I have an g4 1.33 ibook and a friend of mine has an 1.25 powerbook that still beats my ibook in performance... the powerbook is still a good machine but it does need an update for sure but to come-pair it to an imac that crazy...... the powerbook will be updated soon but I still think that if anyone bought a newer powerbook that it will work well for a few more years to come... the G5 may run fast with tiger but there still isn't a lot of software for the G5 yet and it will be a while till all the software comes out... So the PB works right now for what's out there in the software world......
     
madmanXwater  (op)
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Oct 18, 2005, 02:31 AM
 
far200, PowerBooks are very nice, I think I mentioned that I have a 17" 1.33 G4 and like it very much. But I think you missed my point. I understand the advantages of a laptop over any desktop as far as portability goes... "when was the last time you saw a imac used on a 3 HR plane ride..." I get that, trust me. But it's not crazy to compare a computer that costs $1599.00 (in Canada) to one that's $3399.00 and is 2-4 times the speed. For the price of the 17" PowerBook, you could buy the iMac for home/office and an iBook for the time you spend on an airplane!! My point is that I'm just trying to help people to see the value/performance picture of the current PowerBook.

I agree that the PowerBook is a good laptop and would be fine for most average use, but performance is it's big weakness, sorry. "So the PB works right now for what's out there in the software world......" is just not true, not when it comes to heavy CPU needs like video and audio work. For example, and feel free to try this, the PowerBooks can't even play Apple's own samples of HD video content in Quicktime 7, the CPU overloads and you can't get ful 30fps. Here is the link: http://www.apple.com/quicktime/guide/hd/ Do a Command I to see the playback fps! The iMac can play them with plenty of CPU left over and my HP zd8225ca laptop only uses 50% CPU! I could almost buy an iMac G5 with the money I saved on the HP over the 17" PowerBook! But it does't run OSX, I know! But I make due to get that kind of performance/value. For now anyway. MacIntel!!

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far200
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Oct 18, 2005, 03:16 AM
 
madmanXwater.. Yes you have a point that the PB will not run the HD video content in quicktime 7( well only at 852x480 { 480 P} but the imac only runs it at 1280x720 {720 p} where the powermac runs it at 1920x1080{1080p}...... So the imac is only slightly better....but I think you are missing my point that you have to pay for portability. Even a windows tower machine is cheaper than an windows laptop... thats because of portability.... now you made an statement that the PB is "the worst value in apples line up" but what other product can give you the power ( that you say is slow ) to do all the video and audio editing on the go than the powerbook.. the ibook will not do the same function and you can't edit video and audio on the plane with an imac.... I still say that yes the powerbook does need an update... but it does what you need for now on the road and that is what your paying for not the most power.... I don't want to start an argument on this but I believe that you have left out one thing that is important and that is the most power for the road not the most power for your buck...... If you use this example than you would have to say that Intel has more power for your buck than Apple but the intel/AMD machines have a really bad operating system... but that has nothing to do with power for your buck... So I have to say that the PB still gives you a lot of power for what it does... and in the next few days it may be better... Now after saying that I do know that you are trying to say that an imacs over all performance may look better and in some ways be better but there will always be that desk top to portability issue that you can't run from.... yes the performance is different but so is the applications...
hope this clears up things for you from what I'm trying to say....
     
mhuie
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Oct 18, 2005, 03:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by templetalker
I don't need a new powerbook, but I certainly agree with someone's post, that "they don't care about you" dealy. It's true, unfortunatley the bigger the company gets the smaller their appreciation towards faithful customers exudes. When it comes down to it the GAP and Abercrombie and Fitch sell more clothes for cheaper because it carries the "label," not because it costs more and is higher quality.
How does the fact that Apple chooses when to release their OWN products means that "they don't care about you"? They don't have any responsibility to you except for the products you already own.

I wish people would grow up and stop whining already.

If you need a notebook and the 17" fits your needs, buy it. If it doesn't, don't buy it. You should know better than to judge a notebook by its processor.speed.

Oh yeah, to the OP: go troll somewhere else.
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Maflynn
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Oct 18, 2005, 07:24 AM
 
I wouldn't say they buying a PB now means you must be nuts.

If the potential buyer has a need now for portable machine, he has two options, the aging PB line or a windows machine. The PB is really pretty long in the tooth and more and more people will be needing a faster machine, if apple isn't going to produce one, then they will go elsewhere. The need isn't put aside until apple can get their act together.

As for a speedbump if one comes this week (I doubt it) it will only be a modest update, I say this because their latest round of updates have only be a slight uptick in speed.

I'm hoping they'll get out the Mactel's sometime early next year, especially for the PowerBooks. I myself could use one but since my PB is only 2 (3?) years old I can wait.

Mike
     
Randman
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Oct 18, 2005, 08:24 AM
 
Getting a rev a? Risky business.

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madmanXwater  (op)
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Oct 18, 2005, 09:49 AM
 
Ok, I'm wrong. Sorry to everyone, the PowerBook is a great laptop and everyone should buy one as soon as they can. I have a 17" PowerBook G4 with 2Gb Ram and there is nothing it can't do.

Do I get a free Apple pen or something? lol

Mike
(Just trying to be funny!)
( Last edited by madmanXwater; Oct 18, 2005 at 11:04 AM. )
     
Randman
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Oct 18, 2005, 09:52 AM
 
Take a deep breath. Not everything has to be at one extreme.

All the Apple pens were already dispensed. Sorry.

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templetalker
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Oct 18, 2005, 05:00 PM
 
I wish people would grow up and stop whining already (cause I like too also?)

If you need a notebook and the 17" fits your needs, buy it. If it doesn't, don't buy it. You should know better than to judge a notebook by its processor.speed.




     
hakstooy
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Oct 18, 2005, 06:50 PM
 
I don't think its a stretch at all to say the PB is a poor value in terms of raw performance. I'd actually say its quite clear when one compares it to the iBook and the x86 options. The iBook is hardly slower and has most of the bells and whistles that the PB does and the premium x86 offerings are substantially faster.

Right now the PB is commanding its premium tag based on peripheral features which don't do much to boost the computational capability. Actually, I'd say the only thing keeping it afloat right now is the case, if it wasn't a sexy aluminum darling I don't think it would hardly be selling at all.

Personally there is no way in hell I'd buy a PB right now, and I can hardly see how anyone could NEED one. As it has been pointed out, you can get an iMac AND an iBook for a comparable price. And considering that the iBook is hardly any slower and has basically every peripheral capability that the PB does I would imagine that the amount of people who NEED the tiny speed advantage the PB has on the go (while ignoring the iMac's CONSIDERABLE speed advantage and wealth of multimedia capabilities) is very very small indeed.

If I needed a new portable right now I would only consider a refurb or used PB, you can get the previous revision for hundreds less without losing practically anything in the way of capability. It would certainly last you for the 18 months or so until the Rev. B IntelBooks come out, which would be the first time I'd consider the new hardware. Not only for the kinks to be worked out, but also for there to be some decent software availability and stability.
     
Pao|o
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Oct 19, 2005, 08:13 PM
 
If you're wanting a Powerbook now is the time to buy.
     
madmanXwater  (op)
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Oct 19, 2005, 09:02 PM
 
Sorry, not enough to get me to buy one. The screen and DL burner are nice, and the option for a 7200rpm drive, but CPU performance remains the issue for me. I'm waiting for the MacIntel PowerBooks with some real speed.

I do think the 15" is the best value with it's 1440x960 resolution, better than the old 17" had, and at $2399.00 Canadian, that's a full $1000.00 less as well. I'm still looking for that iMac-to-laptop conversion kit!!

Mike
     
mrmister
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Oct 19, 2005, 11:24 PM
 
"If you're wanting a Powerbook now is the time to buy."

If you are drunk and stoned, then yes.
     
iomatic
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Oct 19, 2005, 11:47 PM
 
What if you need to move up from a 12"? What do you suggest? A Dell? And are you going to pay me for all the applications to run on Windows? An older 15"? For the same amount of money? I think not.

I guess that leaves... oh, a new 15" PowerBook! Lookie there.

Now, I'll get drunk and stoned.



Originally Posted by mrmister
"If you're wanting a Powerbook now is the time to buy."

If you are drunk and stoned, then yes.
     
mrmister
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Oct 20, 2005, 12:24 AM
 
"What if you need to move up from a 12"? What do you suggest?"

An iBook and an iMac.

If you're only getting a laptop--a used PowerBook.
     
TailsToo
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Oct 20, 2005, 01:43 AM
 
Too bad there wasn't even a small speed bump... same with the pro machines, sure dual-core is great, but Apple didn't even lower the price on the old 2.3 - makes it seem that they don't think that the new models are all that much better.
     
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Oct 20, 2005, 03:50 AM
 
Um, no. I won't get into why, but for _me_, it's the new PowerBook. Thanks for playing.

Originally Posted by mrmister
"What if you need to move up from a 12"? What do you suggest?"

An iBook and an iMac.

If you're only getting a laptop--a used PowerBook.
     
mrmister
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Oct 20, 2005, 03:16 PM
 
"Um, no. I won't get into why, but for _me_, it's the new PowerBook. Thanks for playing."

A fool and his money...
     
iomatic
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Oct 20, 2005, 03:45 PM
 
Dude.

I guess you know my situation well enough to declare platitudes for my purchase. Thanks for the advice. Let me guess, you run the most successful hedge fund in the U.S.?


Originally Posted by mrmister
"Um, no. I won't get into why, but for _me_, it's the new PowerBook. Thanks for playing."

A fool and his money...
     
mrmister
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Oct 20, 2005, 04:44 PM
 
Hedge fund? Of course not--I wouldn't waste my life doing that.

And it's not advice--it's an observation. If you're happy with your purchase, that's very nice for you. It won't automagically make it a wise time to buy a new PowerBook.

If you're arguing with me, it's probably because you suspect it's true.
     
Eug Wanker
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Oct 20, 2005, 04:58 PM
 
I think there's nothing wrong with buying a NEW 15" or NEW 17" now.

I wouldn't recommend a new 12" now though, except under very specific circumstances.
     
iomatic
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Oct 20, 2005, 05:33 PM
 
You're right. You rule.

You realize how condescending you sound: well, if you're arguing with me, you probably don't know what you're talking about-- right back at ya!

Look, all I'm saying is, you don't know my situation, so an iMac and an iBook would not be appropriate for me. An older PowerBook would not offer the features I need at price parity. So, for my purposes, you don't know what you're talking about.

OK, I'll stop baiting. Can we just not argue anymore? Thanks and good night.



Originally Posted by mrmister
...

If you're arguing with me, it's probably because you suspect it's true.
     
mrmister
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Oct 21, 2005, 01:25 AM
 
"You're right. You rule."

Awwww--that's not necessary. A simple, humble apology for the time that's been wasted is more than enough.

     
 
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