Hi all!

I'm attempting to build a nice sub-$2000 G4 400 for school next year. This is my first Mac so its taking me forever to make a decision. I'm going to use the machine mainly for 3D Gaming like Unreal Tourney and Quake 3. Other than that, I'd like to play some DVDs, do word processing, and listen to MP3s.

Here are some of the things that are confusing me:

1. Should I buy a new monitor for the system? Right now I have a 14" Packard Bell.. would a bigger screen be worth it for watching DVDs? Are the apple displays any good, and what is this whole "Color Sync" thing?
2. Has anyone been to MacMall lately? They have a G4 400 for around $1799. It looks like a pretty good deal but I can't find if they use the AGP Rage card or the older one that first shipped with G4s...
3. If I bought a Zip Drive would the disks for Mac be compatible with my PC zip drive?
4. Is the G4 chip really good for gaming or is it all hype?

Any imput would be GREATLY appreciated!

Thanks!
Gizmo3x

First off, have you considered an iMac? They are not quite as fast for gaming, but are much cheaper. IMHO, an iMac with 192MB of RAM will outperform a g4 with 64MB on any modern 3d shoot-em-up (ie. put the money you save towards RAM). It may suit your needs better. If not:

1. I would suggest getting a decent 17", buy a Panasonic or similar brand, unless you really want the pretty Apple plastics. Colorsync is primarily for professional printing work, don't worry about it.
2. It should definately be AGP.. the more appropriate question is whether or not it has the Rage 128 PRO. It probably does, but you may want to ask.
3. You can't read Mac Disks on a PC, but you can read/write PC disks on a Mac.
4. I am writing this from school, where we have brand new, PIII 600 systems with Rage 128 GL 32MB graphic cards. My G4 400 at home, with a Rage 128 Pro 16MB card VASTLY outperforms these systems on Unreal Tourny (I am quite impressed by the difference actually). On the down side, you do have to wait longer for some games on the Mac.

I hope this helps.

I would not buy an iMac for what you want to do. It sounds like you want to do some gaming, so in that case get the G4. iMacs are great and serve their purpose. I have played games(Quake III etc.) and they seriously lag in comparison. The G4 400 and up will have the sawtooth board which has an AGP port along with the AGP 128 Pro card. You might even want to consider the 450. I believe it has 100 MHZ bus where as I believe the 400 has only a 66 MHZ bus. Check the the spec sheet on Apples site to confirm though. I have a 450 with 128 MB Ram and love it!

[Todd Madson]

Let's try this again: the 400 mhz G4 units
(sawtooth) that are shipping today include
the 100 mhz bus (the 66 mhz bus, I believe
was limited to the first 350 mhz machines)
as well as the Rage 128 Pro video card. Get
one - you won't regret it!

[cteselle]

pay the extra money for the G4 if you got it... You will not regret it, and it is totally expandable, whereas the iMac is really not.

Answers to your confusion:

1. Yes... I would not necessarily go with an Apple display, but those from NEC and Sony, I have found to be very nice.

2. Check out Outpost. They have a machine configed the same for about $1600. Plus no tax or shipping!

3. You can go from the PC to the Mac with no problem. However if you go the other way, you will need to purchase something to read it.

4. The G4 rocks!

hope it helps...

------------------
Promote Chicken Randomness

I would definitely suggest a G4. The biggest reason is that you can replace the video card. I would spring for the Voodoo5 card when it comes out for the Mac hopefully within a month.
Tip: Do not buy any additional RAM, HD from them. It would be a lot cheaper to comfigure a stripped down model then upgrade it later elsewhere. The Apple Displays are very good but overprice if you ask me. Would be cheaper to buy a good trition moniter from other moniter vendors.

[tasslehawf]

If you're going to be doing a lot of gaming, I would DEFINATELY Purchase a Voodoo3 PCI card (you get one for the PC and overwrite the ROM with 3DFX's software).

You can't go wrong here! This card kicks the ass of the Rage Pro card big time!!

You won't regret it.

[dlindsay17]

Remember, desk space is VERY LIMITED at college. Dorm rooms themselves are small and Apple monitors have a pretty big footprint. A 400mhz G4 is probably a good buy (like the one at outpost.com), but just realize that games probably won't take up most of your college life - an iMac (DV) should be fine unless you want to upgrade the video card.

Go to http://store.apple.com then click on education. You get a much better deal if you're a student. They also have education packages available. Sometimes it can be cheaper to buy from Macmall or something like that but usually it isn't.

[camera punk]

Apple Store for Education charges sales tax no matter where you live, which often make the price the same or more than buying retail.

Plus, they charge shipping.

[altivec]

well if you want a G4 for just gaming, typing up papers, movies, and listening to mp3s, well... if your serious in gaming then get the G4, but if not, go with the iMac DV or something... like what EDUCATION BOY AND CAMERA PUNK says, if your a student, the best deals you can get is probably the Apple Education (if not correct me).

DLINDSAY17 is right, the 17" studio display is huge to have in a dorm room. i underestimated the size and had to buy a computer desk. it's a monitor you can find in a computer lab. i guess it depends how serious you are watching dvd's, you probably want 17" instead of a 14". but the display is flawless, crisp, no problem...

if this is your first mac, and expect super computing in games, check out this thread...
http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/Foru...ML/000348.html

Yes, you do have to pay shipping and sales tax with the education store in most states, but you can build to order which I've found saves me a bunch of money. For instance, I don't need a modem inside the computer. I can get a smaller hard drive and a faster processor. Log-in as a student and check the prices first, then add in the sales tax and shipping. After that check other prices. I usually find it a better deal.

[Elderloc]

Well my two cents. I bought a $9,600 G4 with the 21" studio, 512meg, 56k modem and 3 SCSI drives. Of course final cut and quicktime VR bumped up the price but let me say just these few things to think about. I payed way to much for Apple's memory $610 for one 256meg DIMM if I had to do it again I would get a 64meg model, and upgrade my own memory. The SCSI is not price to bad in them so I would keep that.

I got the 56k modem becuase at the time it had dual ISDN and wanted to use it for FAX. I have since moved and even on new lines the internal modem is buggie. The DVD ram is nice but I wonder now if DVD-RW will come in to replace it, I wish they made a CDR/CDRW/DVD I would have gone with that if they had it.

All things aside this G4 500mhz is the best PC I have had and it really cranks when doing Photoshop. You can't go wrong you just need to think smarter than I did. What ever G4 you can afford I would get.

[altivec]

WOW... almost $10k. now that's hardcore... is your G4 maxxed out??? really, it should be the best computer.

what do you your G4 for anyways??? you probably could make toy story 3...



[This message has been edited by altivec (edited 04-13-2000).]

Wow... I didn't think anyone would reply!

I'm pretty hardcore for gamming, its really the reason I'm buying the machine, but thanks for the imput on the iMac. I looked at buying one of those first, but decided I really needed the expandibility that the G4 offered. I think I'd go into shock going from PCs my whole life to a non-upgradeable machine.

I didn't even think about the footprint of the monitor... so thanks for pointing it out. Maybe I'll look into a flat panel later after I buy the G4, since I have a summer job (my parents are buying the computer as a graduation/birthday present).

I have another question, does anyone here have 2 Rage cards in their machines? How much would it speed it up?

Thanks a ton,
Gizmo3x

[Elderloc]

Well I would call it Maxed out.. I bought a Espon 900G and Epson 636U, Final Cut pro, QT VR, with this so that add to the cost.

I runn a web based multimedia site. I was big into 3DSMAX and Alias but was tied of the NT and Win BS. So I had to return to MACintosh after a ten year leave from APPLE hardware. Let me tell you I'm glad I did.

I'm working on converting my liscense to Mac so my site is just one page at the moment. www.digitalscenes.com

I will be working on it over the next few weeks and hope to get things back up and running.

[altivec]

hey, well since you have all the goodies for a great website, i'll be expecting the best!!!

good luck!!!

[exa]

You cannot get more performance by using more than one rage 128 pro card. They will not multiprocess. The reason they offer up to 3 rage cards is for multiple monitors... and that is all...

[seanyepez]

I think if you're going to use it for games, DVD movies, word processing, and .mp3 file listening, a PC would be a better solution for you.

Fellow Mac users, hear me out...


The PC runs games much quicker, and does not come with a horrible graphics card to begin with. I get around 100 frames per second on my AMD Athlon K7 in Unreal Tournament using a 500 megahertz AMD Athlon K7, 3 SDRAM DIMMs totalling 384 megabytes of RAM, and an nVidia GeForce 256 4x AGP graphics card set to 1024 by 768 resolution. This system costed me about $2000 late last summer. (I upgraded to the GeForce from a Voodoo3 3000, though.)

The Apple displays are little more than a third party display with Apple's exterior design and brand. For the same price, you can get a far superior display, save, perhaps, the cool translucent casing. I'd reccomend a ViewSonic PerfectFlat 19-inch monitor, or a cheaper Samsung flat CRT. The ViewSonic costs about $500, while the Samsung uses the same tube (I think, anyways) and sells for $400.

The disks for the Mac would be compatible with the PC, but you'd have to reformat them. The Mac can read PC disks, but it doesn't work vice versa.

It's all hype. Games run far, and I mean FAR better on the PC. A gaming PC for $2000 can completely out-perform the top-of-the-line G4 in games. Here's what you get for that... my freind ordered one from a local shop called Virtual Micro just two days ago.

You get an 800 megahertz AMD Athlon K7 processor, an ASUStek motherboard (the best), 256 megabytes of RAM, a GeForce 256 4x AGP with Fast Writes 32 megabyte accellerated graphics card by Guillemot (which bought out Hercules, the absolute best nVidia graphics card manufacturer), a SoundBlaster Live! X-Gamer 3D surround sound capable sound card, Creative Labs/Caimbridge SoundWorks FPS2000 4-point Dolby Digital Surround Sound digital speaker system, and a 3Com 3C905C 10/100-base TX ethernet card.

(interested? [email protected])

The PC is better for games and multimedia of this sort - for now, anyways. 3dfx is coming out with the Voodoo5 AGP for the Mac soon. That'll change everything...

I forgot to mention that the graphics card on the mentioned PC above has hardware MPEG decoding.

If you want a Mac, I'd reccomend a discontinued 350 megahertz G4. With the money you save, you can upgrade this computer to somewhere around 192 megabytes of RAM, a Voodoo4 graphics card, and an awesome sound card. Take into consideration that the performance differance between an 800 megahertz AMD Athlon K7 versus the 700 megahertz variant is ~3%, and the price difference is about $200. The G4 is even more so expensive.

"l8z",

- Sean Yepez

[This message has been edited by seanyepez (edited 04-14-2000).]

[seanyepez]

The reason why the ATi Rage Pro outperforms the PC graphics at your school is because the Rage 128 GL isn't that great a graphics chip. Try the nVidia GeForce (butter smooth), and you'll change your mind...

No iMac. If any Mac, I'd go for the G4.

Oh yeah! The 100 megahertz system bus is universal throughout all UMA systems (save the iBook) and even the earliest G4 systems. The 66 megahertz system bus is only on the iBook now. The PC platform has an edge in graphics because it uses AGP rather than PCI, and up to 4x with Fast Writes directly to the processor, at that.

[grimley]

$2000 to run games and listen to music. Is anyone else find ing this conversation a little amusing. I mean, when you read the header - 'college student buying G4' you'd think that it would be for some academic pusuit - maybe some writing, a little 3D modelling, image manipulation etc.... but he wants to play games.

Here's a hint - go down to your University student center and sit in the arcade.

There is a reason that mac's cost a little bit more than PC's - it's that we appreciate quality.

[This message has been edited by grimley (edited 04-14-2000).]

[Ca$h68]

Dammit. Grimley, shut your face. I'm sick of some of the people on this forum. They are sooooo against fun it disgusts me. YES, games are fun. I like them. I think a lot of people do. Just because you are an old fart who does nothing but surf the web, or something for your job, doesnt mean you can rip on someone who HAS the money, and wants to play some kickass games on a mac. I've been complaining about my iMac's video card, and how the iMac would make an awesome gaming computer if equipped with a better one. People tell me to buy a PC. HELLO! I dont LIKE pcs. They suck. I'd have to run a crappy OS, deal with crappy software, it just is NOT cool. I TOO appreciate quality. And I can ALSO appreciate games, and quality ones at that. I want mac. I want games. I want a mac that can play some wicked fast games. Is that such a BAD thing to ask for? HEEEELLLLLLLLLLL NO!

Ca$h

PS: You must all get Unreal Tourneyment. It is ... INCREDIBLE!

[Gregory]

Next September will be a whole new ball-game. All G4's now shipping are AGP 2x. For a dorm, an LCD for space. A low-end G4 come summer or Sept will still be same as now ($15-1600?) but faster.

Add your own RAM, buy 2nd IBM IDE, etc.

Do more research as to what today's specs are, what makes a CRT a good display. NEC, Mitsubishi, or low-cost. Zip is small and slow. Today's floppy.

2nd generation G4e's or multiple AltiVec, yesterday's news about Voodoo4/5... stop by macosrumors - for just that, but idea of what might be forth-coming.

Games, VR, hey, military, sims, ARCnet, anything that can run games or Photoshop or do digital video and it seems those are the areas that push the envelope. Look at Apple's NAB announcements last week on video hardware and software.

Knowing what RAM to use, and the possibility that next fall or so DDRAM will replace today's SDRAM... don't be in too much a hurry, you may wish you'd waited. That said, there will always be faster CPU upgrades, so save money on CPU for now and get the best motherboard you can.

If OS X can run Intel, if IBM is selling PPC Linux systems, who knows where it goes? There are a lot of paths down the road.

Gregory

[seanyepez]

"grimley", I was merely suggesting an alternative.

This is a Mac forum, and people here are blind when it comes to accepting the use of the PC platform. That comment wasn't meant to be insulting or to be taken personally, but it is the absolute truth.

I am an avid Mac fan, but I still have to admit that games do and will for at least the forseeable future run better on the PC then on the Macintosh. The Macintosh also doesn't have as good an editing suite as its PC competition. AppleWorks 6 or Microsoft Word 98 is no match for the new release of Microsoft Office 2000 on the PC.

Hardware-wise, Motorola is pretty much out of the performance race. Now it's the Mac OS and compatibility issues that's keeping people buying the hardware. AMD has come out with microprocessors years ahead of Motorola, and when you take the SIMD-enhanced performance into consideration, the Athlon K7 can perform at speeds over a gigaflop. Manufacturing techniques for Wintel processors are down to 0.18 micron for PCs. I'll leave it at this: Let's see whether or not IBM stacks up as Apple's microprocessor manufacturer, and let's wait and see if Mac OS X ran on the PC. Perhaps Apple will get up to speed by including an AGP 4x slot with Fast Writes on its next Power Macintosh revision. The 3dfx cards for the Mac that just were released still use PCI, and hence will not perform that well against AGP 4x PC competition.

The Mac has a superior interface, and all that "yadda", but the PC has better graphics in 3D games. Period.

Oh yeah, and Apple's studio monitors are not nearly as good as comparable products from competition. They are OEM displays put into a cool-looking Apple enclosure. The 17-inch Apple Studio Display costs as much as a perfectly flat 19-inch monitor from ViewSonic, Samsung, or Mitsubishi.

A side question: How fast does your Macintosh get a SETI@home packet done? I'm assuming my PC's crunch time of 8 hours is good, but I'm wondering how a G4 would do. My PowerBook averages 12 hours, and my iMac revision B with virtual memory enabled takes about a full day.

[seanyepez]

Also, it depends on how Mac freindly nVidia chooses to be. If nVidia shows 3dfx that they have competition in the Mac market, both companies will be forced to release drivers for their PC products that tend to be better than the best Mac release.

[exa]

First off, seanypez, the G4 can clock up to 4.6 gigaflops (athalon 600 goes around 2.4). The G4's vector processing unit is incredibly superior to any other available, so don't be saying its slow or anything, it has 162 SIMD inctructions... this is also known as "the velocity engine" or "altivec", in case you have never realized (sounds like it). I can get more in depth: The velocity engine has 32 128bit paths for its altivec core while the athalon's 3d now! has pathetic 7 64bit paths. Also, you may also have meant to boast that the Athalon has a 200 mhz bus... a 200mhz 64 bit bus that is. The G4 has a 100mhz 128 bit bus, clocking at virtually the same speed as the athalon. With the next voodoos, they will be great for gaming, no doubt about it... just stick it into your 64 bit PCI slot and watch things fly.
Secondly, I don't know if you've ever tried optimizing SETI yet, my G3/266 does it in 14 hrs... try blanking screen after 1 min. A G4/500 can do a seti unit in 5:45... incredibly fast.
Secondly, the G4 is built on a .15 micron copper process, so don't be telling me that .18 junk the athalon can boast. The G4 is superior to the Athalon in many respects, as is the other way such as in software and gaming. But in the ways you told, such as the SIMD instruction sets, the G4 just crushes the athalon in it. Dude, do your research BEFORE you boast.

[This message has been edited by exa (edited 04-14-2000).]

[grimley]

I was going to reply to ca4h68 or whatever, (nice name), but decided against it. 'shut your face' is a perfectly adequate response in a public forum.

nuff said.

(anyone heard of playstation?)

[grimley]

I was going to reply to ca$h68 or whatever, (nice name), but decided against it. 'shut your face' is a perfectly adequate response in a public forum.

nuff said.

(anyone heard of playstation?)

seanyepez:

"A side question: How fast does your Macintosh get a SETI@home packet done? I'm assuming my PC's crunch time of 8 hours is good, but I'm wondering how a G4 would do. My PowerBook averages 12 hours, and my iMac revision B with virtual memory enabled takes about a full day."

My FW powerbook can crunch a unit consistently between 7 1/2 and 7 3/4 hours. I have to imagine a g4'd beat that.

grimley--

What I figure is, just about any computer can do word processing. Even a pentium 90 can do that kind of stuff, so why would I focus my search on something like that?

And why would I need to do 3D modeling? I'm not going into a major that would have any possible use for that. Just because someone is in college doesn't mean they devote their whole 4 years to studying every second of the day.

I wouldn't think there would be anything wrong with wanting to play some mean games on a computer. A computer isn't just a professional work-horse these days. I think thats why they call it a "personal computer."

And I'm a "she," not a "he."
-=Gizmo3x=-

[Gregory]

http://www.macosrumors.com

"Experimental multichannel bus technology could rocket Mac ahead

Although technical details are still embargoed for Apple's protection, sources have given Rumors the green light to report that hardware developers there have experimented with multiple SDRAM memory bus channels (essentially 2-4 main busses acting synchronously) to increase main bus bandwidth on G4/MaxBus systems.
There are still a number of technical obstacles to overcome -- and RAM must be purchased in identical pairs or quadruplets with this system -- but the technology, similar in concept to RAMBUS's method of "widening the road" that memory bandwidth traffic travels upon, has proven dramatic in effect. Functioning whole-machine prototypes haven't been built yet, but the results seen in a "decapitated" testing board (Two G4 processors, two 133MHz/PC2100 DDR SDRAM busses."

[grimley]

apologies to one and all.
out.

No need to apologize Grimely, your just stating your opinion. Its always nice to see an opposing view on message boards� otherwise, what would be the point!

Gizmo_3x

[sek929]

Ok if money and space was really a prob i would guess that an iMac DVSE would be a natural decsion, with the money you save from buying a G4 you can buy another 128mb of RAM and really have Unreal screaming. The Rage 128 is a fine graphics card, I mean i play Unreal on my ****ty Rage Pro card and i average around 25fps. But if you are THAT into games (which i think is kinda sad) then go for the G4, or buy a Dreamcast and an iMac.

------------------
--->
--->[email protected]
--->

Man, I just don't understand some of you people. Whats so bad about gaming? I've always thought the gaming industry has helped push the hardware companies into making faster and more efficent chips and video cards. This benifits all of the computing community, not just gamers.

And its not like all gamers go out and by the greatest machine they can find just to play games on. Your right, people like that should buy a console system like the Dreamcast. Most people (IMHO of course), also enjoy computers for many other reasons. For example, the internet, building websites, designing graphics, DVDs, CD Burners and MP3s, & word processing and spreadsheets are just some of the things I enjoy doing on a computer. I would not waste my money on a console system because I would not be able to do many of the things I love doing. I think this is true for alot of gamers.

I think its pretty strange that people hear the term "3D Gaming" and automaticly think, "Oh, what a waste of a good computer." That idea just rubs me the wrong way. People invest in a computer of alot of reasons, I seriously doubt anyone buys a system for just one reason.

Gizmo_3x

[TheAdmiral]

I just have to add in my two cents...

Gaming: I'm a power user like anybody else, I use GoLive, Photoshop, InDesign, 3D stuff, Poser, etc. etc., the list goes on. I also love games. I have a G4/450 with 256mb of RAM. I play Starcraft, Unreal Tournament, Tomb Raider, etc., the list goes on (again). If PCs run games so much better, please answer me, why do my Windows friends come over to my house to play Unreal Tournament? The slowest CPU they own between them is 300MHz, the fastest being a 500MHz AMD. They have plenty of RAM, and yes they own UT themselves, yet they keep asking if they can come over and play it. The only reason I'd own a PC is to play the games that come out for Windows first. Until the Mac version comes out. I wouldn't even attempt programs like Photoshop or 3D apps on Windows. I don't need the headache or the cluttered uninspired interface. Prime example: look at the interface for IE5 on a Mac compared to that of the Windows version.

As for SETI@home, my G4 will do a packet in 6 hours, 20 minutes on average. With Virtual Memory on, it takes longer.. about 7 hours.

As for the original posting in this forum, I say go for the G4... it will last you longer in the end because everything about it is expandable.

------------------
-The Admiral

[natro301]

Try macmart.com it has a G4 400 for 1499 i bought my g3 from them

[Gregory]

Gizmo_3x or anyone,

I have a Graphite 17" ASD, five months use. No problems. Switched to ASD 15 LCD.

With prices and specials down to $375 and ref'd for little over $300, any takers for say $250? It's really too large for my desk space, but works fine (bought it October).

Gregory
[email protected]

I had this in the Buy/Sell month ago for $375 and no takers.

Originally posted by Gregory:
Next September will be a whole new ball-game. All G4's now shipping are AGP 2x. For a dorm, an LCD for space. A low-end G4 come summer or Sept will still be same as now ($15-1600?) but faster.

Add your own RAM, buy 2nd IBM IDE, etc.

Do more research as to what today's specs are, what makes a CRT a good display. NEC, Mitsubishi, or low-cost. Zip is small and slow. Today's floppy.

2nd generation G4e's or multiple AltiVec, yesterday's news about Voodoo4/5... stop by macosrumors - for just that, but idea of what might be forth-coming.

Games, VR, hey, military, sims, ARCnet, anything that can run games or Photoshop or do digital video and it seems those are the areas that push the envelope. Look at Apple's NAB announcements last week on video hardware and software.

Knowing what RAM to use, and the possibility that next fall or so DDRAM will replace today's SDRAM... don't be in too much a hurry, you may wish you'd waited. That said, there will always be faster CPU upgrades, so save money on CPU for now and get the best motherboard you can.

If OS X can run Intel, if IBM is selling PPC Linux systems, who knows where it goes? There are a lot of paths down the road.

Gregory

MACOSRUMORS can go ***** themselves! they are the reason why I feel stupid enough to buy a mac.. its bastards like them that make current mac users upset and angry!!! REFRAIN FROM POSTING ABOUT THE G4E OR ANYTHING ELSE THAT IS NOTHING BUT A RUMOR... ACCORDING TO APPLE, I HAVE SPOKEN WITH THEIR CHIEF ENGINEER ABOUT THE G4E, HE TOLD ME: "NO WORD ON THIS AT ALL, ALL WE HAVE ARE THE G4 400,450, AND 500... AND NO PLANS FOR A G4E IN JULY!" STOP SPREADING FALSE CRAP AROUND!

[Gregory]

I can't stop macosrumors. Or Bill Gates, from spreading rumors about unannounced systems. Windows 2000 (NT 5) was "rumor" for years! OS X has had a long history of rumor in its various incarnations even longer.

But RAMBUS DRAM - out there. Dual Data Rate DRAM? Cheaper, as fast? and out there. RAMBUS has been "vapour" ware for years. Does that mean if no one hears a tree in forest falling...?

Plan ahead when buying? My SE/30, I spent six months contemplating what to buy... and then the IIcx came out a month later! I spent $5000 on that SE (5MB RAM, 80MB HD). Wish I'd waited.

Go read what Intel says they "have" and then try to order one. Or check with Tom's hardware site. Or sites that deal with chips. Motorolla's next cell phone - due in 2001 is "in the news."

You don't have to listen. But don't tell me what I can or cannot read or say or deny that Apple knows they need to up the ante. Apple was told to expect 500 mhz G4's only they weren't materializing. I think G4e isn't due until Fall, and just a speed bump between now and then.

How about the news on ATI AGP 4x? Is that rumor-mongering? Or that they have a chip by a new name that will put Apple in the driver's seat?

Intel has so much trouble with heat and noise with their 1 ghz chips that require a lot of work ($$$) to solve - which gives Apple a chance to tout its own horn on low-heat and noise and power. If Apple refuses to promote its G4's features, that's its fault.

Some people do use workstations. And workstations use to mean a RS/6000, SGI, MIPS, specialized hardware and software, and cost $10k to $100k.

I'm planning today for what kind of system I'll be using a year from now.

In 1986 we use to spend $6500 for IBM PC/AT's plus software ($3000). Kinda shame. Such a waste of money. But we couldn't wait 10-14 yrs for a "decent" computer : )

Gregory