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fisherKing · Aug 16, 2007, 12:04 PM

anyone who visits this forum regularly has heard me complain about the new imac screen; it's the computer i was waiting for, BUT...the glossy screen is not for me.

i do all my work on a 12" 1.5g g4 powerbook (logic & reason, cs3 apps mostly), with an LG widescreen monitor.
this is 'pro' audio work (mtv, playboy channel, etc).

so...i was thinking today of moving to a mac mini (i'd keep the pb); i could use my current monitor.
again, i wanted an imac, but, that's mostly an aesthetic call. i never considered the mini before, but...the mac pro is overkill (and out of my budget anyway).

will the mini work? good for running 'pro' apps? powerful enough? 2 gigs ram (max) enough?

any thoughts?

i value these forums, usually great advice, tips (outside of all the grade-school bantering...)

Eriamjh · Aug 16, 2007, 12:06 PM

Why not just by the previous model? They must still be in stock somewhere.

fisherKing · Aug 16, 2007, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Eriamjh

Why not just by the previous model? They must still be in stock somewhere.

was never crazy about the white casing, don't like the keyboard (which i could replace i guess);
still, an idea to consider.

anyone else?

slpdLoad · Aug 16, 2007, 12:18 PM

Normally I wouldn't recommend a mini for professional use, considering the slow 2.5" HD, only 2gb of RAM, etc, but since you're coming from a 12" PowerBook for your "pro" work I think the mini would be a good fit. It will be a significant speed boost for most things (is Reason universal?). Just make sure to max out the RAM, it'll be a fine computer.

cherry su · Aug 16, 2007, 12:22 PM

The new minis can hold up to 3GBs of RAM because they use the Core 2 Duo processors. However, if you want 3GB in your mini, you have to do it yourself. From what I've heard, it's a PITA to replace RAM in the mini.

fisherKing · Aug 16, 2007, 12:30 PM

i guess if i'm coming from a 1.5g G4 and 1.25 gigs ram, the 2gig default max would be fine...

or i could hold my breath until apple offers a matte-screen option on the new imacs

analogika · Aug 16, 2007, 12:31 PM

The mini will probably be more than sufficient for your current workload. I have yet to max out the BlackBook using Logic.

Honestly, though, I'd really give the glossy screen a chance.

I remember feeling very skeptical about the MacBook screen, but in practise, it has surprisingly not been an issue AT ALL - in no circumstance.

If you're in a store, and actually focussing on the reflectivity of the screen, that's a *completely* different situation from when you're actually concentrating on the *contents* of the screen.

Just my two cents (I really like the new iMacs, though.)

fisherKing · Aug 16, 2007, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by analogika

The mini will probably be more than sufficient for your current workload. I have yet to max out the BlackBook using Logic.

Honestly, though, I'd really give the glossy screen a chance.

I remember feeling very skeptical about the MacBook screen, but in practise, it has surprisingly not been an issue AT ALL - in no circumstance.

If you're in a store, and actually focussing on the reflectivity of the screen, that's a *completely* different situation from when you're actually concentrating on the *contents* of the screen.

Just my two cents (I really like the new iMacs, though.)

i really like the new imacs as well. on a macbook, the screen angle helps with reflections; on a 20" imac (having played with it in the store), you're face on with a large screen, and the reflection is (for me) really annoying.
plus my setup means the screen faces 2 huge southern-exposure windows. it's just not going to work for me.

i really COULD wait, see if a matte option happens; but seems unlikely.

am going to apple soho now, to look at the mini's (guess not much to look at!), and...will revisit the new imac...

mfbernstein · Aug 16, 2007, 12:40 PM

If you don't mind mucking around in the Mini, upgrading the RAM to 3GB and the HD to a 7200RPM 160GB or 200GB one will give you a very nice machine, although even the base config. will be much faster than your current PowerBook.

Then again, for the speed-obsessed, there are some mods you can do too.

fisherKing · Aug 16, 2007, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by mfbernstein

If you don't mind mucking around in the Mini, upgrading the RAM to 3GB and the HD to a 7200RPM 160GB or 200GB one will give you a very nice machine, although even the base config. will be much faster than your current PowerBook.

Then again, for the speed-obsessed, there are some mods you can do too.

i've got a bunch of firewire drives for audio, so should be good. and 2 gigs ram is more than i have in my powerbook, so...

may just do this! and, IF apple does a matte imac at some point, can always sell the mini and move to that...

analogika · Aug 16, 2007, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by fisherKing

i've got a bunch of firewire drives for audio, so should be good.

The new iMac has Firewire 800...

(just to muddy the waters some more)

fisherKing · Aug 16, 2007, 01:51 PM

yeah, and my g-drives DO have fw800...

am at the apple store right now.
with a dark image on screen, the imac is just a big mirror...it WILL drive me crazy.

am gonna play with this a bit anyway, then check out the minis..

hldan · Aug 16, 2007, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by fisherKing

was never crazy about the white casing, don't like the keyboard (which i could replace i guess);
still, an idea to consider.

anyone else?

The Mini's new update will work very well with heavier apps like Logic but if you are using any pro apps that rely on the GPU forget it.

One note Fisherking, be nice, that poster Eriamjh offered you an idea and you sorta went against it and at the end of your response you stated, "ANYONE ELSE"?
That's like saying, thanks but no thanks. People are here to help but nobody is required to respond. Try to appreciate all responses.

fisherKing · 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by hldan

The Mini's new update will work very well with heavier apps like Logic but if you are using any pro apps that rely on the GPU forget it.

One note Fisherking, be nice, that poster Eriamjh offered you an idea and you sorta went against it and at the end of your response you stated, "ANYONE ELSE"?
That's like saying, thanks but no thanks. People are here to help but nobody is required to respond. Try to appreciate all responses.

total misunderstanding, you're reading inflections i don't mean; i only wanted other opinions, no disrespect to anyone! read ANY of my posts here over the last 6 years; rudeness, not my style!

fisherKing · Aug 16, 2007, 02:18 PM

on the imac, i made a black background, with white text: "C'MON APPLE, GIVE US A MATTE-SCREEN OPTION".
made it the desktop pic LOL... now a giant mirror.

a store employee came over and...laughed. "i'll keep that there until someone else here removes it".
said it's an essential idea; some customers have asked for it.

meanwhile...mini is nice enough. for my work (no gpu-intensive), will probably do the trick.
am probably gonna max it out online...

thanks for replies!

JKT · Aug 16, 2007, 02:25 PM

Fwiw, if the speed of the internal hard drive of a mini is going to be an issue and your externals are faster, you can simply install OS X (using the System Restore disks for the mini) on the external and use it as a boot drive for the mini.

Out of curiosity, if you already have a matte monitor, have you considered getting the iMac (if you really do want one rather than a mini) and simply using the monitor you already have as your primary, and the iMac's as a secondary screen?

mfbernstein · Aug 16, 2007, 04:09 PM

External drive won't be faster. The FW400 interface will be a bottleneck, and so you'll be limited essentially to ~35MB/s (in my experience). A fast internal drive can do ~50MB/s sustained, and 65MB/s bursts, even if it's only a 2.5" drive. If you mod the Mini to take a 3.5" SATA drive, you'll do even better.

jbleisure · Aug 17, 2007, 07:16 AM

I'm in a similar situation really. Wanting to upgrade the experience at home from a G4 1.5 PB (2Gigs ram) to either an iMac or screen (20" or 23" am unsure) and a mini for the intel chipset.

The problems is I use a 2.16 C2D 20"iMac (2gigs ram) at work which just flies and I'd like that kind of processing power at home. Also I really dislike the new iMac mostly for the glossy screen but to be honest I think even if they offered a matt option the black apple sign and black border to the screen might stop me from buying one,

I haven't really been able to determine what processes/apps that the mini's GPU & graphics card would make a slower/lesser experience than the C2D iMAc's. That's was I was tuning into the thread for really and without hijacking it I wonder if anyone can be specific about that?

Kelvin · Aug 17, 2007, 09:33 AM

I'm going to give the Mini's a look over this weekend. Not only is the glossy screen on the new iMac giving me doubts but the colors look off compared to a MacPro and Cinema Display. My main concern is how the Mini will work with consumer HD camcorders vs the iMac. I don't have an HD camcorder yet but it's something to think about. How much better is the Intel graphics chipset to the iBook G4 ATI graphic chip set? That is what I have now. iMovie 6 works quite well with standard definition from my Canon camcorder on my iBook 1.2 with 10.4.10. Anyone run Aperture on the Mini? The Aperture specs say the Intel 950 is supported but not with the recommended asterisk. Maybe I should bite the bullet and get a refurbed MacPro. It would last me a lot longer than an iMac or Mini. If Apple refreshes Final Cut Express to allow AVCHD camcorders and maybe drop the price for customers who now longer find iMovie usefull a MacPro would be perfect. No rush to buy so I'll research more.

iDaver · Aug 18, 2007, 01:24 AM

Get the mini. It'll be a huge step up from your PB G4.

Kar98 · Aug 18, 2007, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by cherry su

The new minis can hold up to 3GBs of RAM because they use the Core 2 Duo processors. However, if you want 3GB in your mini, you have to do it yourself. From what I've heard, it's a PITA to replace RAM in the mini.

Not too bad, actually. I just stuck 2GB of RAM into my 1.83 dual core from last December. Open the case using your trusty scrapers, undo the airport antenna -careful, springloaded-, remove four screws, unplug 2 cables, gently lift the drive frame up and slightly back, unclick the springy retainers holding the old RAM modules, remove said modules…and work backwards from here to re-assemble. Be sure to test everything _before_ you put the screws back in and the lid back on!

Piece of cake, really. Just have the proper tools (thin, flexible metal scraper, tiny Phillips screwdriver, shot glass for holding the screws and one spring.) The bigger of the four screws goes into the front right, the corner with the power light.

Now replacing the hard drive or DVD drive would have been more difficult. Upgrading the CPU would have been trickier yet. But just a little RAM upgrade? Easy

Kar98 · Aug 18, 2007, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by mfbernstein

External drive won't be faster. The FW400 interface will be a bottleneck, and so you'll be limited essentially to ~35MB/s (in my experience). A fast internal drive can do ~50MB/s sustained, and 65MB/s bursts, even if it's only a 2.5" drive. If you mod the Mini to take a 3.5" SATA drive, you'll do even better.

Using an external Fw400 drive with 7,200rpm and 8MB cache to run your mini from is SIGNIFICANTLY faster compared with the internal 5,400rpm drives.

fisherKing · Aug 18, 2007, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by Kar98

Using an external Fw400 drive with 7,200rpm and 8MB cache to run your mini from is SIGNIFICANTLY faster compared with the internal 5,400rpm drives.

which is EXACTLY my plan. i'm gonna order one from apple monday;
2.0g, 160g hd, 2gigs ram..and the wireless kybd & mouse.

almost as much $ as the imac, but...will be good with my MATTE LG widescreen.

fisherKing · Aug 18, 2007, 08:31 PM

ordered! the wireless keyboard is backordered, so i got the wired keyboard for now
(which i will 'craigslist' when i get the wireless..."4-6 weeks"!)

this is my first desktop, and i just finished setting up for it.
(got a bunch of cables in search of connection..!)

dn15 · Aug 19, 2007, 02:47 AM

Sounds like a great choice! I was going to say go ahead with the mini, too. I use an original MacBook (virtually same specs as the mini you ordered, but original Core Duo rather than Core 2 Duo.) I find it more than adaquet for everything I do -- excepting 3D-intensive tasks, but then I never really do that anyway except when I get a brand new machine and want to put it through its paces. Long as your apps are universal, it will be significantly faster than the PowerBook.

The thing I like about a mini paired with a large LCD is you can swap out the mini more often for less of a cost hit each time and keep the display. That way you have the latest and greatest all the time for relatively low cost, if you want. With the iMac, you have to replace the entire thing every time you upgrade, taking a bigger loss and re-buying the display with the new machine every time.

todd · Aug 22, 2007, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by fisherKing

which is EXACTLY my plan. i'm gonna order one from apple monday;
2.0g, 160g hd, 2gigs ram..and the wireless kybd & mouse.

almost as much $ as the imac, but...will be good with my MATTE LG widescreen.

I have an original Core Duo Mini, and my parents recently got the new 24" iMac. So, I've played around with both. I use my Mini primarily as an HTPC (home theater PC, DVD and HDTV DVR playback. Works great for that, where small size + headless was required). But, by the time I spec'd it out the way I wanted, it was pretty expensive.. as you mentioned, almost as much as the iMac.

If I was buying a new desktop machine, there is no question I would go for the iMac. Even with the screen limitations. Some of the reasons are:

- Faster CPUs available on the iMac (the 2.0GHz on the Mini is no slouch.. has the 4MB/core cache)
- Mini is limited to 3GB addressable memory because of the chipset it uses. If using 3GB, memory performance decreases (no memory interleaving without matched DIMMs), decreasing graphics performance. iMac can handle 4GB. Also, memory is simple to upgrade on the iMac, not so much on the Mini. (2GB is really the sweet spot for memory right now. But it's nice to have the option to expand.)
- Mini: Integrated GPU and shared memory, iMac: dedicated GPU + Memory. GPU acceleration features are baked into Mac OS, not just for games & graphics apps.
- 3.5" Drive vs. 2.5", Faster and more storage space.
- FW800 on the iMac, if you need it.
- 802.11n wireless on the iMac. Mini is still "G"
- iSight video camera included

And, a big factor for me is:

- Dual Head support with iMac, single monitor with Mini. But, this gets back to your monitor issue.. As someone else mentioned, you could plug in your current monitor and use it as the primary and use the iMac display as the secondary.

Or, you could use them in mirrored mode (both display same thing) and turn the brightness all the way down on the iMac, effectively turning it off. You could always turn it back on in the evenings when light is not an issue. (If you haven't use dual head before, it's worth a try. The extra screen real estate is a big efficiency boost).

When I got my MacBook Pro, I opted for the matte screen, so I know where you're coming from. But, I can honestly say that while using my parents' iMac I have never been bothered by the glossy screen. Even when a bright light behind me was on, I just never noticed any reflection issues. I think you just focus on the screen content and don't even notice the surface reflections.

(well.. that ran on a lot longer than I was intending..)

fisherKing · Aug 23, 2007, 12:08 AM

well...
my mini arrives today.

since my experience with it (and any computer) is based around the screen, am glad of my choice; again, for me, the glossy will not work.

the way my workspace is set up, makes sense: LG monitor for the mini, my powerbook on the side (will post a pic when...)

the move from a 1.5g G4 12" to this will still be a leap; reason, logic, cs3 apps...all universal.

am looking forward to this...

fisherKing · Aug 23, 2007, 10:42 PM

got my mini today, noon.
been installing apps, moving files...
thing is absolutely quiet (so far), and nice to type on a keyboard that doesn't get hot (am coming from years of powerbooks).

happy with my LG screen, speed, everything so far.

for me, this was a good choice!
will take a picture at some point, post that.
thanks for all opinions!

putch · 12:27 AM

I just picked up a mini myself last fri. Main selling point for me was I already had a 20" widescreen and wanted it to handle mail, web, my music collection, and some video/audio editing. I don't do anything to intensive just family videos and such.

I also got a MBP (glossy screen) that I picked up last year, but didn't want to keep so much my personal stuff on it since I take it back and forth to work.
that and the lack of a docking station (did not like bookends) made plugging and unplugging cables twice a day a "PITA".

molarszbt18 · Aug 24, 2007, 02:32 AM

FYI most stores carry Refresh Units and they might have a previous iMac in stock or check apple online store for a refurbished unit.

chazz894 · Aug 25, 2007, 03:55 PM

I have a Power PC 1.5GHz with 1GB of RAM ( max for that model ) and i run Adobe CS2 on it and have not had any real issues, The Lack of enough USB 2.0 ports ( 2 on my model and 2 USB 1.0 port on the Keyboard ) and only 1 Firewire 400 port even on the new model is a let down but you can always use some kind of hub for both Firewire and USB 2.0 pots ( the new apple (wired) keyboard has 2 USB 2,0 ports for a total of 6 if you get it)

anyway i would say if you don't really need the power of the Mac Pro and you don't like the Glossy display of the iMac's then you might give the mini a real look at. I have used mine for 2 years now and i still use it on a daily basis, but i am thinking about an upgrade as well just to be able to run some universal apps and maybe Windows XP for the few games that i play and i will more then likely move up to the iMac just to unclutter some of my desk space and to have a Firewire 800 port for a new external HDD,

Any way just a thought

fisherKing · Aug 25, 2007, 04:46 PM

am loving my mini; able to run logic rewired to reason without a problem, my main challenge.
thing is quiet, i'm loving the new keyboard...

am really pleased with this; the only thing, lol...i hate telling people i work on a 'mini', so i say i got an apple desktop...!

fisherKing · 10:52 AM

fwiw...

just waiting (oct!) for my wireless keyboard (altho i may just get a saw & cut the right side off the wired keyboard...

)

iREZ · Aug 27, 2007, 10:42 PM

that keyboard and mighty mouse fit SOOOOOOOOOO much better with the mini color scheme as oppose to the new imac, i don't know what pipe ives is smoking out of but it's definitely not the consistency pipe.

zerock · Aug 27, 2007, 11:11 PM

i would really get a mini, but what kills me if that it has wireless-g and firewire 400.

fisherKing · Aug 27, 2007, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by zerock

i would really get a mini, but what kills me if that it has wireless-g and firewire 400.

i hear ya.. am ok with firewire 400, have not (yet) seen any issues (i record audio to a g-drive); and am running ethernet, so am good...

Kar98 · Aug 28, 2007, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by fisherKing

fwiw...

setup with new mini

Damn, that's one neat desk. Freak!

fisherKing · Aug 28, 2007, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Kar98

Damn, that's one neat desk. Freak!

u think that's bad? i rewired things last night, uploaded a new pic; now neater than before
(hey i am an avowed minimalist...)

TonyMo · Aug 29, 2007, 03:23 PM

I think you made a great choice...

I am in the same boat as you, professional composer, and looking to upgrade my home studio...

I really wanted to upgrade to a MacPro, but it's too expensive for what it is at the moment, so I'm thinking of running a Mini in the interim, and who knows, maybe I will stay with that choice if it runs as well as you say... though I would like to run two monitors eventually, but we can't have everything.

How are you finding the load when running plugins, such as reverbs etc (especially convolution), is it still holding it's own? Great thing about the Mini of course is that's it's dead quiet, big advantage in audio work.

Thanks for sharing your experience, consider yourself a pioneer, and I the follower...

fisherKing · Aug 29, 2007, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by TonyMo

I think you made a great choice...

I am in the same boat as you, professional composer, and looking to upgrade my home studio...

I really wanted to upgrade to a MacPro, but it's too expensive for what it is at the moment, so I'm thinking of running a Mini in the interim, and who knows, maybe I will stay with that choice if it runs as well as you say... though I would like to run two monitors eventually, but we can't have everything.

How are you finding the load when running plugins, such as reverbs etc (especially convolution), is it still holding it's own? Great thing about the Mini of course is that's it's dead quiet, big advantage in audio work.

Thanks for sharing your experience, consider yourself a pioneer, and I the follower...

ha..! anyway...
haven't done any MAJOR work yet, but it HAS to be better than my 1.5g powerbook.
both apps are universal! i don't run a lot of plugins in logic anyway.
so far, though, running great.
am really happy with my choice (altho if apple does a matte imac, hmmmm...)

AppleCore_LLC · Sep 21, 2007, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by zerock

i would really get a mini, but what kills me if that it has wireless-g and firewire 400.

Mac Minis are able to be upgraded to wireless-n.

jbleisure · Sep 21, 2007, 05:52 PM

Mac Minis are able to be upgraded to wireless-n.

How do you know?

Impressionist · Sep 21, 2007, 06:16 PM

New iMac FTW

MyMac8MyPC · Sep 27, 2007, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Kar98

Using an external Fw400 drive with 7,200rpm and 8MB cache to run your mini from is SIGNIFICANTLY faster compared with the internal 5,400rpm drives.

Yep, we're using our mini with the Seagate Barracuda 7200.1 with Perpendicular recording technology and it screams

We are very turned off by the iMacs new highly reflective screen. The new minis have only one or two things wrong with them; they don't have FW800 (yet) and the integrated graphics card (which is doable but should be updated). Other than that the new minis are great

Kar98 · Sep 28, 2007, 04:11 PM

Well, I can live without a dedicated graphics card and without Fw800 (neither of which will ever be in the mini, I can guarantee you that), but a decent hard drive would be nice.

MyMac8MyPC · Sep 28, 2007, 04:23 PM

I'm willing to bet that FW800 will be added within the next 6 months...

wellei Wong · Sep 29, 2007, 02:55 PM

I just install 4GB ram in my Mac Mini(Intel Core 2 Duo v2.0... It works.... very good

MyMac8MyPC · Sep 29, 2007, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by wellei Wong

I just install 4GB ram in my Mac Mini(Intel Core 2 Duo v2.0... It works.... very good

While 4 gigs is 'installable' I believe according to the Apple site it actually only can use or 'see' 3 gigs. Still better than 2 gigs