Uhhh unless this poster (poser) has opted to use a pseudonym (that would be wise of him/her) this post is a fake. There is no Apple Employee named Kim Tzu working in the HI group. We call it UE btw..

-Someone in a position to know

He/She is using a fake name to protect his/her identity I think I dunno why the unbelievers are being so damn harsh on this person, this is the first X converstation which hasn't just been about slow resizing!

[Haenk]

I found this behaviour a bid odd in the finder:

right-click a file and select to move it into the trash;
right-click the next file; the option to move it into the trash and others arent there.
right-click again and you have the full list of options again.

This could really slow down work a lot when editing a large number of files.

Please change it

[seb2]

Originally posted by hamishb:
OK Kim, a quick test. I visited Apple HQ @ 1 Infinite loop in late Dec '00 while on holidays from Australia (ouch the exchange rate hurts!). What colour is the Apple logo on the sign at the entrance?

well, or even better: what color is the apple logo in the os x menu bar?
that way, we'll find out whether he's used os x before...

would you please stop it? he has repeatedly said that he wasn't going to answer any questions that would supposedly "prove" his identity. also, this thread is getting boring to read.

so, i'll just repeat my question. kim, do you have any idea whether speakable items and/or the spelling checker's built-in dictionary will ever be localized to -- say -- german? (surprising example :-) )

[AppleGuy]

This is really sad. The adults here realize the importance of the truth and are trying to reveal this impostor while the teens that simply cannot be reasoned with are defending this guy whom they have never met just becuase they WANT to believe.

This type of behaviour is dangerous. Really dangerous. Blind following has caused war, death, and every other horrible condition of the human being. And I am watching this, in person, happen LIVE..

I would love to get a Social Scientist in here to read this thread. It would become a book.

Children, it really doesn't matter to you, does it? He is proven wrong and answers questions like he has one of those magic 8 balls in his hands, or he's a clever AI applications that is programmed to answer with nothing.

But you go along and believe him anyway. You probably thought Bill Clinton was the greatest President ever. Or that Al Gore never told a lie, or the Media is unbaised.

Foolish, foolish children. you disappoint me. I bet even I could fool you into thinking anything I want.

Since I am an Apple Employee in the marketing Department, what woud you say if I told you to expect OS X 10.5 in July, not 10.1 as been expected. What if I told you the Cocoa Finder is done? Why do you think Mr. Jobs admitted to the slowness of the finder this week? Because there is a new one. Would you believe me?

[GnOm]

Originally posted by AppleGuy:
I bet even I could fool you into thinking anything I want.

i bet you already tried... and failed.


cu

[Craig R. Arko]

Ah-hah! AppleGuy(Incognito), your true colors are showing. Way to treat the paying customers. Anybody believe this Guy anymore?

kimtzu: please contact Sal. He was forthcoming in his thread and still seems to have a job. And if you are fake, write to Scott_H so we can mercifully close this thread, and replace it with a better one.

Since almost none of my OS X issues are UI related (excepting the slow Finder and crummy IE), I have no other questions.

[jamesa]

Originally posted by Xestrel:
Yes yes yes!

1) When I hit the "Back" button, I seem to expect the column view to "back-up" the displayed file hierarchy. Instead, I guess it just backs up the last actions I have taken in a particular window - which is very
disorienting once it gets to the place where the window opens and stops. I guess I would either like it to behave like "cd .." on the view all the time, or perhaps provide a tool bar widget which is a button that just walks up the directory. I guess I just don't associate "browser" functionality with this hierachical view.

My turn to quote you, Xestrel: Yes yes yes!

I think back should take you up a directory as opposed to where you were before. Great idea - one of those things that annoyed me but never wrote down.

I'm getting a list of things I'd like fixed going. I've been discussing them with cricket (from apple) and a few other apple fanatics on a mailing list. Some interesting ideas came out. Post it when I've read everybody elses ideas... assimilating everything I like

-- james

[Group51]

Originally posted by AppleGuy:
This is really sad. The adults here realize the importance of the truth and are trying to reveal this impostor while the teens that simply cannot be reasoned with are defending this guy whom they have never met just becuase they WANT to believe.

This type of behaviour is dangerous. Really dangerous. Blind following has caused war, death, and every other horrible condition of the human being. And I am watching this, in person, happen LIVE..

I would love to get a Social Scientist in here to read this thread. It would become a book.

Children, it really doesn't matter to you, does it? He is proven wrong and answers questions like he has one of those magic 8 balls in his hands, or he's a clever AI applications that is programmed to answer with nothing.

But you go along and believe him anyway. You probably thought Bill Clinton was the greatest President ever. Or that Al Gore never told a lie, or the Media is unbaised.

Foolish, foolish children. you disappoint me. I bet even I could fool you into thinking anything I want.

Since I am an Apple Employee in the marketing Department, what woud you say if I told you to expect OS X 10.5 in July, not 10.1 as been expected. What if I told you the Cocoa Finder is done? Why do you think Mr. Jobs admitted to the slowness of the finder this week? Because there is a new one. Would you believe me?

I think you are missing the point. If Kim is not really working for Apple, fine. All these apparently real Apple employees who are diving in, are any of you actually reading the posts? Save for all the is he/isn't he distractions, there is a really interesting HI/Aqua discussion. You could just say, interesting thread but I don't think Kim is real. The impression you're giving is that you are less then interested in the offered feedback.

Oh, and it is insulting to suggest that because we may have believed that this guy is real *on the internet*, that this reflect on our *real life* activities. It doesn't matter *here* if he is real or not, I don't take anything said here (10.0.4 was due last week right?) seriously. It does matter when Apple Marketing tell us about Killer Graphics, when in *real life* its like being smothered by a dead sheep. Luckily, as an adult, I am able to treat martketing with the same scepticism as Kim.

I wrote the first "Kim Tzu is a fake" post. Nice to see that folks are finally paying attention to the fact that this guy is just A BS artist. As soon as I saw his first message I knew it. His posts are vague, misleading, or just plain wrong. Anyone who has even basic knowledge of Apple's organization and work assignments would realize it, hence the posts from Sal Soghoian and "Someone in a position to know." And myself, of course. This whole thread has contained lots of interesting user comments, but it's still tainted by Kim's ridiculous deception and the large number of absurd defenses of him. My favorite? The "someone with that kind of talent has to be anonymous to keep away the headhunters" post a few pages back. Oh. My. God.

[MacGorilla]

Wow! This is really turned into a vgillante mob here! I'm not defending kimtzu or whoever he/she is but c'mon guys, time to let up! Just look at what you wrote!

C'mon, Chris, there's nothing here but an attempt to get at the truth about this fool "Kim Tzu."

[undotwa]

Heh, lay off the guy. He is not doing any harm by posting bull **** (however, i think he isn't). He is generating some nice discussion.

------------------
http://www.appleonlooker.com - your number one source for Mac OS X news!

[muchfresh]

all the 'kimtzu' is a fake is really filling this thread up with crap. If he is a fake the whinners are responsible for 10X the amount of bull in this thread.

kimtzu -
Do you know when macmanager or the likes will support OSX?

Now who's being naive, Chico?

[Ralph_J]

I don't remember if this has been mentioned yet, but...

Can anything be done to speed up file previewing in the column view, or can we get the option to turn it off altogether?

I just wasted the last five minutes of my life watching the rainbow wheel of death when I inadvertantly clicked on the icon of a 513 MB tiff file and was force to wait for the preview to draw in. From the sound my HD was making, it sounded like it had to read the entire 513 megs to create the preview. What's up with that?

Re AppleGuy's comment:

"I would love to get a Social Scientist in here to read this thread. It would become a book."

I am a social scientist. Everything you see in this thread has been covered from that perspective, and a rather long time ago. The classic work on the willingness of people to go through mental gyrations to defend patently false beliefs associated with a "charismatic" leader is called "When Prophecy Fails." It was published in 1957 by the social psychologist Leon Festinger. This thread and the "Kim Tzu" supporters really remind me of Festinger's study (though he studied religious cultists). Now, as to "Kim"'s motivation, well, I guess "he" just wants some attention and to be associated with something he sees as glamorous and exciting (Apple). This is a "social ingration strategy" called "basking in reflected glory." The funny thing is that usually a person does this publicly, not in the relative anonymity of a bulletin board like this.

This is ridiculous, some people here just have the worst attitude problems and seem to only post in order to stir things up and start a flame war. If you all think this guy is a fake then just ingnore this thread! Why the hell are you reading it if you believe it all to be nonsense?

[SmileyDude]

Just to point out a few things here... I don't think that anyone is just blindly following whatever Kim says, and taking it as gospel... I've found this thread to be more interesting to hear what other people feel are problems with X. And I think that is the main point that a lot of us are trying to say... it doesn't matter if he's fake or not, this thread still serves a purpose.

Again, I also go back to my previous statement that both sides don't have any proof either way, so it's a pointless argument. Everyone has their opinion, and in this case, there really is a right answer, but until we know, both sides could be right or wrong.

Kim, the easiest way to prove yourself (if you are so inclined) would be to email sal at work, or at least email sal with your real identity. Personally, I don't blame you for not posting from work, no matter what you may be doing this week (or not)... I would like to think that all the developers at Apple were working on making OS X better during their working hours, not answering questions on forums... but, as a developer, I do understand that is not practical at times

Sal, Kim already said that Kim Tzu is a anagram for his real last name... shouldn't it be simple to run through the phone list and search for possible canidates? You could probally write a cool little AppleScript for that

Oh, and when I made the headhunter comment above, I wasn't speaking from knowledge on that matter... I was merely referring to an article I had read on the net somewhere refering to a brain-drain at Apple, and why names were being removed from About boxes... which, at least the About box portion, can be confirmed by looking at the About The Finder box under OS 9 vs. OS 9.1... If you really want to hold that against me, fine... but, I don't really care. It's just a thread on a forum... not life and death.

Anyway, back to more important things...

------------------
dennis

[Spheric Harlot]

[2ble post]

[This message has been edited by Spheric Harlot (edited 05-23-2001).]

[Spheric Harlot]

OK, so this thread is DEAD, to all appearances.

Pity. There was some of the nicest UI discussion going on in between all the irrelevant bullsh!t.

The identity question should have just been a sideshow. Unfortunately, it became the main event.

End of interest.

-chris.

------------------
...the original Genie Junkie�

[spockie]

Originally posted by kimtzu:
This has to be the first time I've heard feedback on that beachball thing. The beachball actually represents the kernel at work and is left over from alpha builds. The plan is to get rid of it but if they decide to keep it, I'll make sure to let you know

I've followed this thread with big interest, however I have to mention the following:

The rainbow cursor is not a "beachball", which "represents the kernel at work" and was left over from the alpha builds. The rainbow cursor was taken from Nextstep (you have the same busy cursor over there) and it doesn't represent a beachball but an optical drive Next used in their first computers running Nextstep.

Sorry, I don't say that Kim is a fake or not, it just makes me wonder a bit.

This whole thread is quickly becoming a 7 page joke. Who cares if KimTzu is a fake or not? This is a FORUM (n. 1b: A medium of open discussion of voicing of ideas. 2: A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion, usually among experts and often including audience participation.) This is what MacNN forums usually are. However, there is one definition that this one has become. (3: A court of law; a tribunal).

It would seem that "KimTzu" is on trial here. For what crime? For misinformation? For making us believe something that may or may not be true? As I stated earlier, this happens all the time on these forums and others. What about AppleInsider? or MacOSRumors? These sites do the exact same things ("An extremely reliable source emailed me about..." or "The word on the street is...") yet many people take their word as gospel truth. The same may be said about Steve Jobs himself. He said OS X would have DVD playback in on X/X/01. Do you really think that that date is set in stone somewhere in the universal laws of reality? The same may be said for "KimTzu"'s comments. Do you really that just because someone says something that it's the ultimate reality?

Even if he is a fake, who cares? The discussion that this FORUM has generated has been more than valuable for many different people. If he is the real thing, then his clues can give us something to look forward to.

Personally, it's better than all the doom and gloom that has been typed on the OS X forums by people wanting the OS to be their personsal private system, not to mention the people who don't seem to realize that change takes TIME.

This post is just a reminder that even though we are all Mac advocates, we don't have to become assholes just to prove a point.

Let's try to disregard definition 3, and focus on 1b and 2 instead.

IAAJD

Source: _The American Heritage College Dictionary_. Ed. Robert Costello. Boston: Houghton Mifflin. 537

[cowerd]

The classic work on the willingness of people to go through mental gyrations to defend patently false beliefs associated with a "charismatic" leader is called "When Prophecy Fails." It was published in 1957 by the social psychologist Leon Festinger. This thread and the "Kim Tzu" supporters really remind me of Festinger's study (though he studied religious cultists).

How appropriate to dredge up cultism and apply it Mac users, but wrong in this case. False beliefs, a charismatic leader? That's a fscking stretch. How about cognitive efficiency and dealing with known social categories in "unknown" situations. Social Scientist, you might find that Georg Simmel's 1908 paper "How is Society Possible?" a better reference in this case.

Or you can take your cult leader and go home.

As Nack Nicolson said in Mars Attacks:
"can't we all just....get along?"

[Kosmo]

To 'it's OK',

Brilliant response, I remember reading a book like this myself in college in the early 70's...can't remember the title though but it was probably the same book.

I guess my motivation to reveal this guy as a fraud stems from being a father of 2 teenagers. I am way over protective of my kids and I warn them of these types of people all the tiime, although it mainly concerns political leaders and not some attention seeker here on MacNN

It's like I'm thinking to myself "How dare you fool these people" kind of thing. But in the overall scheme of things I really could care less..or do I??

With the uproar over in the lounge with the new owners and the sudden appearance of fake apple employees this site has become less enjoyable. I read this thread with my head shaking side to side...

sad sad sad...

I think many of them are preparing their purple reeboks and shrouds..

Oh well, I can't bother myself with this thread anymore...

------------------
http://www.manzione.com/
MacNETv2 coming July 2001

Thanks, Kozmo. And Cowerd, I am truly crushed by your prodigious display of intellectual might. My humilation at your hands is complete.
Oh, BTW, all who say it's not about whether "Kim" is, or isn't, please note the title of this thread, and take a look at what Kim's first introductory post starts with. I applaud discussion of HI; why it has to be tied up with a bunch of toadying to an obious fraud is the part that is difficult for me.

[Scott_H]

As I said several pages ago, some think he's fake other do not. The case has been made strongly both ways. We don�t need to keep going on and on about it.

[kimtzu]

Ya, this thread is dead. I'll come back when tempers have cooled down a bit and the witch hunt has died down. Thanks for the input, though, I really appreciate it!

[MacGorilla]

I will say that I am a sometime Apple employee (a contractor) and a developer and I post here without being interrogated by the masses or violating my NDA.

Based on my experience, I would lean toward kimtzu being a fake but this is the USA, innocent until proven guilty beyond the shadow of a reasonable doubt. I still have reasonable doubts so kimtzu, in my view, is for real.

Oh well. Just my 2 cents

[SmileyDude]

Originally posted by kimtzu:
Ya, this thread is dead. I'll come back when tempers have cooled down a bit and the witch hunt has died down. Thanks for the input, though, I really appreciate it!

Sorry to see you go... I hope we haven't scared you off for good.

------------------
dennis

[edddeduck]

To Kimtzu

Start a new tread dude and this time I hope people can just have a good discussion and nothing more.....

I repeat I DON'T CARE if he is real or fake.....

I understand that you might not/cannot prove you exist....

This is irrelevant to the discussion really...


People who have posted that he is fake ok we have taken your info on bored and now we just want to talk about OS X....

So stop filling a discussion with SH-one-T

And to everyone else if we all ignore these posts they will take up less room.... This include me btw I have be guilty too.....

Count to 10 and lets try again



------------------
450DP/448MB/80GB/Rage/Apple 17"/Zip250/ZipCD/Epson740

ICQ 60617180

I Took The Red Pill

[osiris]

No - thank you for taking your time to answer questions, despite the eggs and rotten lettuce being hurled at you by less openminded people.

"Faster! Faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death!"
Hunter S . Thompson

[robotmarkVIII]

Godwin's[sp?] Law!

The first one who evokes hitler or nazis in an arguement immediately loses it.

Originally posted by Millennium:

Ah yes, repress the person who says something you might not like to hear.

Not at all. But you're making some serious accusations, and we want a face behind those words.

I mean, I know you guys are going to talk about something anyway, but to give attention to someone who's just pulling your chains makes you worse than Hitler.

Um, don't you think you're overreacting just a little too much with that last statement? The day my tendency to give people the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise causes the deaths of millions of innocents, then maybe I'll say otherwise. But until then, you're so far out of line with that comment it isn't even funny.

By the way, have you ever heard of Godwin's Law? Unfortunately, you just invoked it. Basically put, the law states:

• As the length of any Internet discussion thread approaches infinity, the odds of one person comparing an opposing person or sode to Nazis or Hitler approaches one.
• As soon as this happens, the discussion is effectively over.
• By tradition, the person who made the Nazi comparison is usually declared the loser.

Say what you will about that OTHER "Mac" site, with the "Addict"tion problem, , but the OS X forum, while not as high traffic as this one, seems to have escaped the problem of interesting threads degenerating to flame wars or OS X bash-fests.

Which MacAddict site are you talking about? It sure isn't the one run by MacAddict magazine. Or at least, not their "Debate" forum. I've spoken about whiners and flamewars here before, but the ones on those forums elevate it to almost an art form. That's why I stopped posting in that forum, though I still drop by the others on occasion.

[Scott_H]

I think were all ready to let this thread die. There are other threads started that continue this discussion. Maybe we could all use those.

[Mac007]

Sounds like a good idea to me, now where's that light switch?

Oh here it is!

"CLICK"

[BuonRotto]

I think at the end of the day, the true identity/role of Kim Tzu is irrelevant. The point was a discussion of HI, at least it was ideally about that alone. At some point, Kim could never have started it or kept with it. In fact, he immediately says that he's not being representative at all of the compant, so I don't understand the big whatnot.

Next time, perhaps the Apple employees should post either as non-employees and getting feedback by prodding and poking, or starting a rumor thread which tends to get a lot more plausibility and credibility from the other readers off the bat.

This was a good thread.

[changed smiley]

[This message has been edited by BuonRotto (edited 05-25-2001).]

I dont know wether or not he is who he says he is, but I can surely understand why it would be prudent to keep his name/identity secret.... There are those select few that see the need to obsessively attack and counter almost every post, try to track him down... next youll want to know where he lives.

We all know that there is the possibilty that he is not who he says he is.... you are only obsessing over the obvious... WE KNOW ALREADY, but hey it is interesting conversation... 7 pages worth pretty much says it.

[rtamesis]

Scott, can we just close, lock and bury this thread? It has completely degenerated into a "He is, no he isn't" discussion that serves no more purpose than to waste even more bandwidth and give the self-appointed witch hunters an ego trip ("See, see? I told you he isn't what he says he is! Ain't I good?").

[MacBiXo]

Hi Kimtsu!

I love the UI in OSX!!! Please, don't change!!!

[Scott_H]

Close? Yea, maybe a good idea. Considering this thread has turned into a "he is" "he isn't" discussion. Anyone who wants to post in UI dicussion there are many other threads started after this one. Here's two.
http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/Forum3/HTML/005883.html
http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/Forum3/HTML/005879.html

Please use the above thread to continue the discussion of OS X UI.