Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

andreas_g4 · Jan 12, 2006, 07:49 AM

A good thread.™

Gamoe · Jan 13, 2006, 01:01 PM

Another forum glitch?! Gotta love it...

Gamoe · Jan 13, 2006, 01:02 PM

Anyway, if anyone wants to get on topic here... I was asking about predictions and wants for the next iBook revision, which seems likely to become the first MacBook.

Voch · 02:04 PM

I expect a quick Intel Core Solo processor swap and a graphics update (maybe a widescreen replacement to the 14" model):

Core Solo T1300 1.66Ghz, 40GB IDE HD, 512MB expandable to 1.5GB, 64MB ATI Radeon X1300, 12" 1024x768, $999
Core Solo T1?00 1.83Ghz, 60GB IDE HD, 512MB expandable to 1.5GB, 64MB ATI Radeon X1300, 13" widescreen, $1299 (when the processor is available)

Going Core Duo, low-power "L-series" Core Solo or SATA HD just adds to Apple's cost (and the Core Duo brings it too close to the MacBook Pro) so they're not really in my expectations. I think the Solo series of processors, IDE instead of SATA, displays, and lack of the ExpressCard/34 slot is what Apple is going to use to differentiate the MacBook from the MacBook Pro.

Hopin' for the same polycarbonite styling but maybe a slimmer case.

EDIT: the X1300 video is a wild guess...I don't even know what the X1x00 series are in relation to each other...just think "lower than the MacBook Pro's X1600"

EDIT2: Optical drives for the MacBook are a toss-up as the MacBook Pro only has a 4X DVD+-RW. I'm assuming the MacBook will also get the MagSafe power connector and FW400 port and will lack an internal modem.

Voch

JoshKurtz · Jan 13, 2006, 02:47 PM

I just hope that they don't use a mobile Celeron.

Voch · 03:06 PM

After doin' more research, I'm guessing the MacBook Pro is sticking with its 1.66/1.83 Core Duo line for this revision (no magic speed bump in April...heck...they're not shipping until February) because the next step up to 2Ghz is quite a jump in price in lots of 1000 (1.66=$241, 1.83=$294, 2Ghz=$423...a big jump). Apple chose the sweet-spot-priced processors (the two just before a big price jump) for the MacBook Pro.

Also, there IS a lower-speed Core Duo processor (1.5Ghz) that COULD be put in the non-Pro MacBook so as to not be faster. The problem is that it's the more costly (because of its lower power usage) L2300. That chip is $284...almost as much as the "normal" 1.83Ghz model used in the MacBook Pro.

It's beginning to look a lot like a Core Solo for the MacBook unless there's some other stuff that can diffrentiate it from the MacBook Pro (no DVI out, no ExpressCard/34 slot, less capable video, combo drive instead of DVD+-RW, smaller display...is that enough to halve the price?).

Voch

Duracell · Jan 14, 2006, 12:36 PM

They won't put the low end Due processor in the new iBook. They need some sort of difference between the iBook and new Powerbooks (I refuse to call it a MacBook.).

Also, why rename the iBook to the MacBook? They only dropped the Powerbook name because it doesn't have a PowerPC processer in anymore.

tooki · Jan 14, 2006, 02:08 PM

No, you are completely wrong. The PowerBook name was first used three years before the first PowerPC Macs (the Power Mac) and about 5 years before the first PowerPC PowerBooks.

Apple has stated publicly that the name change is to a) show a major shift, and b) put the "Mac" brand into the laptop name.

tooki

Jake_11 · Jan 14, 2006, 04:47 PM

has anyone heard any official news about when the release of the macbook will be? i'm holding off on getting a replacement notebook until they are released.

Timetheus · Jan 14, 2006, 07:14 PM

Official pre-release news about a new product from Apple?

*laughs maniacally in dark corner*

I would guess, however, we'll see one around the same time we see adequate supply of Core Solos from Intel. I had heard that was in April sometime, and I don't think there are any Core solo PCs yet, so that seems reasonable. No doubt the iBooks are due fro update though.

Gamoe · Jan 14, 2006, 08:12 PM

I'm hoping that Apple will see it fit to build in an iSight into the MacBook as well. That, a backlit keyboard, more battery life, a bigger hard drive, less thickness, and a redesign is what I'm hoping for, in that order.--In addition to some kind of speed boost, of course. Honestly, I'm pretty happy with the iBook myself. Ideally, I'd actually like some kind of tablet-ability. I would love to be able to flip back the screen (see my iTablet article), but I know that's not very realistic for the iBook.

jamil5454 · Jan 15, 2006, 12:00 AM

I hope they include clamshell and spanning support in this next Revision. I know there's a hack to enable the spanning, but there is currently no way to get the full VRAM to an external display while in clamshell mode.

dreamryche · Jan 15, 2006, 01:47 AM

I'm thinking the MacBook will see DVI output. I say this because the Intel iMac ditched the mini-VGA for a mini-DVI out. iSight/Front Row/remote wouldn't be a reach...it seems like they're trying to integrate those as much as they can.

Simon · Jan 15, 2006, 04:47 AM

At first I was guessing both iBooks and the 12" PowerBooks would get replaced with a 13.3" widescreen MacBook with a 1.5GHz Core Solo. Pricing would be $999-$1299 depending on configuration. However, that would leave a huge price gap between the MacBook and the MacBook Pro. OTOH if they add a 13.3" Mac Book Pro to close that gap, we're back where we were with the 12" PowerBook and iBook - too close.

mduell · Jan 15, 2006, 05:34 AM

Originally Posted by Simon

At first I was guessing both iBooks and the 12" PowerBooks would get replaced with a 13.3" widescreen MacBook with a 1.5GHz Core Solo. Pricing would be $999-$1299 depending on configuration. However, that would leave a huge price gap between the MacBook and the MacBook Pro. OTOH if they add a 13.3" Mac Book Pro to close that gap, we're back where we were with the 12" PowerBook and iBook - too close.

Put the low-power 1.66 Core Duo in the MBP and the 1.66 Core Solo in the MB. That's a significant price and performance difference.

Simon · Jan 15, 2006, 05:36 AM

Low power is expensive. Anyway it defies the purpose of a small MBP. The 13" MBP only makes sense if it gets the same CPU/GPU/clock as the 15". Everything else is just an Al iBook. See the current 12" PB.

slugslugslug · Jan 15, 2006, 12:52 PM

Why's it defy the purpose? Low power usage is damn near paramount in a laptop, especially a smaller one. You did notice that he said Duo for the Pro and Solo for the plain ol' MacBook, right? And the LV Core Duo is available at the 1.67 GHz speed. So it could be clocked the same as the 15", and even though the MacBook'd have the same clock, it'd be pretty easy to market the "twice as many cores" part as the differentiator..

I hope Mark's scenario comes to pass. I'll be buying a < 15" Apple laptop later this year, whatever options they present. But I'd be extra happy if I could get something dual-core for under $2k.

On the other hand, the LV part is pricier than high voltage at the same clock, so I dunno how much cheaper Apple could make the 13" in this case..

mduell · Jan 15, 2006, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by Simon

Low power is expensive. Anyway it defies the purpose of a small MBP. The 13" MBP only makes sense if it gets the same CPU/GPU/clock as the 15". Everything else is just an Al iBook. See the current 12" PB.

I think you missed where I said low power Core Duo in the small MBP and Core Solo in the small MB. Also, the price difference isn't that large.

L2400 (2M L2 cache 1.66 GHz 667 MHz FSB) w/ Intel 945 PM Chipset and Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG - $381
T1300 (2M L2 cache 1.66 GHz 667 MHz FSB) w/ Intel 945 PM Chipset and Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG - $274

Only an extra $107 for the 2nd core.

Voch · Jan 15, 2006, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

Only an extra $107 for the 2nd core.

But Apple will see it as a 10% cost hike on a $999 computer (if we're still talking about what chip will be in the non-Pro MacBook, for example).

Voch

galarneau · Jan 15, 2006, 11:47 PM

It's actually on $32 more for the Dual Core -vs- Single Core

Single Core Yonah
--------------------------
T1300 (2M L2 cache 1.66 GHz 667 MHz FSB) w/ Intel 945 PM Chipset and Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG - $274

Dual Core Yonah
--------------------------
T2300 (2M L2 cache 1.66 GHz 667 MHz FSB) w/ Intel 945 PM Chipset and Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG - $306

You were quoting the price for the ultra-low voltage chips, which are quite a bit more expensive.

Simon · Jan 16, 2006, 01:37 AM

The low power power version increases price by about 25%. It seems nothing like Apple to put the most expensive CPU in the cheapest MBP. I'm still convinced the 12" PB is history and the 13" MBP is nothing more than wishful thinking. Apple's a business; it's not about what people wish for, it's what makes them money.

mduell · Jan 16, 2006, 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by Simon

The low power power version increases price by about 25%. It seems nothing like Apple to put the most expensive CPU in the cheapest MBP. I'm still convinced the 12" PB is history and the 13" MBP is nothing more than wishful thinking. Apple's a business; it's not about what people wish for, it's what makes them money.

A lot of people want smaller laptops and I don't think Apple will shut them out. Consider that the average Apple laptop price is $1300 and the average PowerBook price is $2000; that's a lot of sub-15" laptops.

Simon · Jan 16, 2006, 02:02 AM

One word: MacBook

iDaver · Jan 16, 2006, 02:48 AM

I think we'll soon see a killer new design for the low end MacBook. It's going to be rugged, slightly thinner than iBooks and will probably come in only one size at first; a 13 inch wide screen. I hope one big improvement will be in screen brightness. A 1.5Ghz single core processor with the much faster bus will make for a good performance increase over current iBooks.

I doubt we'll see many of the hoped for features mentioned above, such as DVI out and spanning, lighted keyboards, big hard drives, speedy graphics, built in cameras and such. Apple needs to offer a portable computer in the $999 range. With too many of those features Apple wouldn't want to sell it at that price. To sell for $1000 less and keep from competing against the ProBook, a lot of stuff has to be left out.

galarneau · Jan 16, 2006, 12:54 PM

The main criticism I have of my current iBook (12" 1.33GHz) is the screen.

Everything else is fine.... if the next iBook replacement has a screen even close to the brightness of the new MacBook Pro, I'll be selling and upgrading.

It would be nice if Apple does d/c the 12" PB, they allow the iBooks (MacBooks?) to do screen spanning etc.

andreas_g4 · Jan 18, 2006, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by iDaver

I think we'll soon see a killer new design for the low end MacBook. It's going to be rugged, slightly thinner than iBooks and will probably come in only one size at first; a 13 inch wide screen. I hope one big improvement will be in screen brightness. A 1.5Ghz single core processor with the much faster bus will make for a good performance increase over current iBooks.

I doubt we'll see many of the hoped for features mentioned above, such as DVI out and spanning, lighted keyboards, big hard drives, speedy graphics, built in cameras and such. Apple needs to offer a portable computer in the $999 range. With too many of those features Apple wouldn't want to sell it at that price. To sell for $1000 less and keep from competing against the ProBook, a lot of stuff has to be left out.

You are probaly right with most of your predictions. But I am quite certain that an iSight will be integrated in the new iBooks. DVI out probably too, but - as you said - without spanning.

andreas_g4 · Jan 18, 2006, 09:42 AM

dp*

im_noahselby · Jan 19, 2006, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by galarneau

The main criticism I have of my current iBook (12" 1.33GHz) is the screen.

Everything else is fine.... if the next iBook replacement has a screen even close to the brightness of the new MacBook Pro, I'll be selling and upgrading.

It would be nice if Apple does d/c the 12" PB, they allow the iBooks (MacBooks?) to do screen spanning etc.

I think we'll see a 13" MacBook Pro, before we see new (iBook) MacBooks. We may even see the MacBook Pro and new MacBooks at the same.

Regarding the quality of the screen: it has been a common complaint over many years that Apple has NOT addressed. People complained, yet these same people still bought the things or spent even more money (something Apple wants you to do) on a 15" or 17" model...

I don't think the screens will be as bright or as crisp as the current 15" MacBook Pro display, but I think its very reasonable to expect some improvement. The current 12" screens are garbage, compared to what the industry as a whole is using.

Noah

The Ancient One · Jan 19, 2006, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

I'm hoping that Apple will see it fit to build in an iSight into the MacBook as well. That, a backlit keyboard, more battery life, a bigger hard drive, less thickness, and a redesign is what I'm hoping for, in that order.--In addition to some kind of speed boost, of course. Honestly, I'm pretty happy with the iBook myself. Ideally, I'd actually like some kind of tablet-ability. I would love to be able to flip back the screen (see my iTablet article), but I know that's not very realistic for the iBook.

No backlit keyboard. The cheap keyboard is one feature that differentiates the iBooks from the PowerBooks and I see no reason for Apple to change that. Costs too much.

Ryknow215 · Jan 20, 2006, 09:19 AM

The main criticism I have of my current iBook (12" 1.33GHz) is the screen

Regarding the quality of the screen: it has been a common complaint over many years that Apple has NOT addressed. People complained, yet these same people still bought the things or spent even more money (something Apple wants you to do) on a 15" or 17" model...

Exactly what are the concerns that people are having over the quality of the 12" iBook screen? Does it prove to be too small or does the quality degrade after time? I'm interested because I'm in the market to swap my G3 for a 12" G4 iBook.

Simon · Jan 20, 2006, 11:19 AM

Angle, brightness and color accuracy.

Put a 12" next to a 15" and you'll see it immediately.

mgl · Jan 21, 2006, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by im_noahselby

I think we'll see a 13" MacBook Pro, before we see new (iBook) MacBooks. We may even see the MacBook Pro and new MacBooks at the same.

That would be the best scenario because then we could compare the two models on their merits rather than comparing against something that may or may not be released. I'd love the speed of a duo and if given the choice, I'd probably buy the Pro version. However, if the price difference is great enough, I'd buy the non-pro and just replace it more quickly with a newer model.

Gamoe · Jan 21, 2006, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by The Ancient One

No backlit keyboard. The cheap keyboard is one feature that differentiates the iBooks from the PowerBooks and I see no reason for Apple to change that. Costs too much.

Apple may not include it to differentiate the lines, but not because it costs too much, because I highly doubt it does.