Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

jszrules · Nov 11, 2007, 03:01 PM

Hi, I've read through the recent Gmail IMAP threads on these forums, but am still confused about the following. I have a Gmail account with the following settings in Apple Mail: POP account type with the option to "remove copy from server after retrieving message" checked on. This works fine for the Inbox, but the messages I have sent and trashed using Apple Mail still show up on the Gmail server even after I move the Sent message to a separate folder in Apple Mail.

1) Is there any way for the Sent Mail and Trash mailboxes on the Gmail server to replicate the contents of Sent and Trash on my Apple Mail, so that the only preserved copy of my message is in some local subfolder?

2) Would switching from POP to IMAP achieve this goal? If so, would I have to create a new account in Apple Mail as I don't see an option to switch from POP account type to IMAP.

3) Speaking of POP vs. IMAP, Gmail says that IMAP is enabled, POP is enabled for all messages that have arrived since [present time], and my Apple Mail is configured as POP. How does all of this work together?

Thanks.

mduell · Nov 11, 2007, 03:42 PM

1) IMAP
2) Yes
3) When you switch to using IMAP, all the mail that is available in the web interface will be available in Mail. All the POP enabled message means is that if you set the computer up for POP on another machine, it would only send new messages to that new machine.

Beware that Gmail doesn't handle IMAP like most servers. When you 'delete' a message from Inbox, it still remains in All Mail, since what you're really doing is just removing the Inbox tag. Delete from All Mail and it moves to trash.

jszrules · Nov 11, 2007, 04:16 PM

Thanks for the responses, mduell.

1) IMAP

So you're saying that if I switch to IMAP, a message in Apple Mail that I move from Sent to [some storage folder] will no longer show up on the Gmail Sent Mail server?

2) Yes

Would I have to create a new account in Apple Mail as I don't see an option to simply switch account types from POP to IMAP?

Thanks again.

mduell · Nov 11, 2007, 07:42 PM

Yea, it would be un-tagged as Sent and only appear in All mail and the folder you moved it to (assuming that folder is an IMAP folder instead of a local folder). I can't help you with Mail, but it's pretty easy to just create a new account. You'll want to start using IMAP folders (gmail tags) instead of local folders, so you can see the same 'folders' everywhere. You can just copy your messages from local folders to the IMAP folders in Mail.

jszrules · Nov 11, 2007, 08:30 PM

How do you create an "IMAP folder"? Are you talking about "labels"? If so, I don't think that would achieve my goal of having just a local copy of a message that comes in or out. As an example, this is the behavior I am looking for:

Compose and send a message using Mail
Message stored in Sent folder on Mail and Gmail server
Message manually moved from Mail's Sent folder to some local Mail folder
Doing so removes the message from the Gmail server

POP is obviously not doing this for me (only works with Incoming mail). IMAP with labels doesn't like like it will help, either. Would IMAP WITHOUT labels do the trick? Thanks.

besson3c · Nov 11, 2007, 08:40 PM

I don't use a GMail account, but what you are describing is possible with IMAP. It is possible for local folders to coexist with server folders, and it is possible to move (rather than copy) between folders on the server and folders on your machine.

You cannot do this with POP because POP doesn't know anything about folders, it is a very brain dead protocol. You will be much better off with using IMAP.

mduell · Nov 11, 2007, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by jszrules

How do you create an "IMAP folder"? Are you talking about "labels"? If so, I don't think that would achieve my goal of having just a local copy of a message that comes in or out. As an example, this is the behavior I am looking for:

Compose and send a message using Mail
Message stored in Sent folder on Mail and Gmail server
Message manually moved from Mail's Sent folder to some local Mail folder
Doing so removes the message from the Gmail server

POP is obviously not doing this for me (only works with Incoming mail). IMAP with labels doesn't like like it will help, either. Would IMAP WITHOUT labels do the trick? Thanks.

No, IMAP won't do that; I can't think of anything that would. Why do you want to do that? Most people want their email to be persistent; every email is available no matter where you are. And manually moving mail? It should all be automated these days. What are you really trying to achieve?

besson3c · Nov 11, 2007, 10:18 PM

Why wouldn't IMAP do that mduell? (I realize I may not be understanding what jszrules wants to do, so I don't mean to sound like I'm challenging you).

mduell · Nov 11, 2007, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Why wouldn't IMAP do that mduell? (I realize I may not be understanding what jszrules wants to do, so I don't mean to sound like I'm challenging you).

IMAP, particularly Gmail's implementation of it, isn't going to delete a message from the server when it's moved from a local sent mail folder to another local folder. Even moving a message from an IMAP sent mail folder to a local folder is more likely to make a copy than a move where the original is deleted.

besson3c · Nov 11, 2007, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

IMAP, particularly Gmail's implementation of it, isn't going to delete a message from the server when it's moved from a local sent mail folder to another local folder. Even moving a message from an IMAP sent mail folder to a local folder is more likely to make a copy than a move where the original is deleted.

It is possible in most, if not all clients (including OS X Mail) to do the latter by going to Message -> Move to...

However, I know that GMail is unusual in how it deletes messages from the server, so perhaps it does something funky such as intercepting IMAP move/append requests and replacing them with copy requests, I don't know...

mduell · Nov 12, 2007, 07:43 PM

Sorry, my post last night wasn't very clear.

With most IMAP servers, if you move instead of copy, the original will disappear from the server. With Gmail's IMAP implementation, I believe it just un-tags the message (Sent, Inbox, whatever) but it remains in All Mail.

jszrules · Nov 13, 2007, 01:23 PM

mduell and besson3c, Thank you both for all your responses. I understand that what I want isn't very conventional. But based on your responses, it doesn't look like there is a way to achieve it, anyway.

If I do switch to IMAP and I run things "normally", would all my local copies on Mail get wiped out if the Gmail server suddenly lost all my messages?

besson3c · Nov 13, 2007, 02:20 PM

If by local copies you mean messages you've transferred to a local folder, no, they exist solely on your computer. However, if by local copies you mean your cached/downloaded copies of messages from the server that your email client does, when your client next syncs with the server, if the server is responsive and those messages are gone, your cache will be updated to reflect this.

Does this make sense?

jszrules · Nov 14, 2007, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

your cache will be updated to reflect this.

Does this make sense?

In other words, there is no such thing as a "backup" if you use IMAP folders (Gmail labels)?

besson3c · Nov 14, 2007, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by jszrules

In other words, there is no such thing as a "backup" if you use IMAP folders (Gmail labels)?

Do you mean backup snapshots (that would allow you to backpeddle if something went wrong)?

jszrules · Nov 14, 2007, 09:34 PM

More like the ability to simply store messages on your local machine. With IMAP folders, if my understanding is correct, if mail is lost on the Gmail server, it will also be lost on your "local" IMAP folder. Whereas if you use "true" local folders, the copy is in fact a copy of the message.