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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > macOS > Permanently Enable Q2DX?

Permanently Enable Q2DX?
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mrcorwin
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Apr 25, 2005, 09:48 AM
 
How do I do it? Windows and user interface elements are sped up considerable with this enabled. I'm tired of having quartz debug open just to get the acceleration.
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JLL
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Apr 25, 2005, 10:18 AM
 
Where do you enable it? I only see Enable Quartz Extreme (which is enabled by default) in 8A425.
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Busemann
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Apr 25, 2005, 11:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by JLL
Where do you enable it? I only see Enable Quartz Extreme (which is enabled by default) in 8A425.
Under the Tools menu, but it's probably not visible on effete Macs.
     
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Apr 25, 2005, 11:20 AM
 
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ul1984
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Apr 25, 2005, 11:57 AM
 
enable it, then forcequit Quartz Debug (havent tested if its still on, after a logout, tho)
     
mrcorwin  (op)
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Apr 25, 2005, 12:11 PM
 
Shouldn't there be a plist that I could edit?
And the force quit trick did not work.
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ul1984
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Apr 25, 2005, 12:24 PM
 
the force quit trick works just fine, and after a look ive discovered that it changes the variable Quartz2DExtremeEnabled to YES in /Library/Preferences/com.apple.windowserver.plist

and if you force quit it stays at YES, if you quit normally it changes to NO

so i suppose you could change the plist manually.
     
lookmark
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Apr 25, 2005, 12:31 PM
 
Are there any noticeable issues with Q2DX turned on?

I'm curious why Apple decided to turn it off, at least for 10.4.0.
     
Person Man
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Apr 25, 2005, 12:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by lookmark
Are there any noticeable issues with Q2DX turned on?

I'm curious why Apple decided to turn it off, at least for 10.4.0.
Not sure about what kind of problems it has, but usually if Apple ships something that's "off" by default, it means that it's not ready yet... there will probably be an update that turns it on in the future. I don't think we'll have to wait until 10.5
     
lookmark
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Apr 25, 2005, 12:46 PM
 
I'm with you, just curious what those problems are.
     
mrcorwin  (op)
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Apr 25, 2005, 12:46 PM
 
Plist editor made quick work of the toggle. I can definitely tell that it is enabled by default! I have been trying it with many different apps to see if it breaks but it seems to be rock solid. I wonder what the problems could be?
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lookmark
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Apr 25, 2005, 12:50 PM
 
Well, with so many people toggling it on, I expect we'll find out soon...
     
Person Man
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Apr 25, 2005, 12:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by mrcorwin
Plist editor made quick work of the toggle. I can definitely tell that it is enabled by default! I have been trying it with many different apps to see if it breaks but it seems to be rock solid. I wonder what the problems could be?
Perhaps it works fine with some graphic cards but not others?
     
JLL
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Apr 25, 2005, 01:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Busemann
Under the Tools menu, but it's probably not visible on effete Macs.
Shouldn't it be visible on a DP2.5GHz Power Mac G5?
( Last edited by JLL; Apr 25, 2005 at 01:41 PM. )
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Apr 25, 2005, 01:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by lookmark
I'm with you, just curious what those problems are.
I noticed that after a while, Safari (the whole window) started "flashing" with some discoloration. Otherwise, I have not noticed any other specific errors or drawing errors, though this was on a late development build. I am sure Apple has good reasons to disable it by default. I am curious however about what glitches people see when Tiger arrives.

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Chuckit
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Apr 25, 2005, 01:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Person Man
Perhaps it works fine with some graphic cards but not others?
This would be my expectation. They sounded like it was in pretty good shape a few months ago (on some cards more than others), so I'm guessing it's probably just shy of ready.
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Peabo
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Apr 25, 2005, 01:46 PM
 
Enabling Quartz 2D Extreme slows down core-image a ton. Try using the 'fun house' app with it off, then with it on.
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mrcorwin  (op)
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Apr 25, 2005, 05:05 PM
 
Until I really use an important app that actually incorporates core image, Q2DE will be enabled on my mac! I'm sure a better card besides my herculean 5200 would make both CI and Q2DX play nicer with each other.
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Don Pickett
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Apr 25, 2005, 05:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by mrcorwin
Plist editor made quick work of the toggle. I can definitely tell that it is enabled by default! I have been trying it with many different apps to see if it breaks but it seems to be rock solid. I wonder what the problems could be?
There are some reports on the OS forum that enabling it makes Safari 2 very slow.
     
zerostar
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Apr 25, 2005, 05:45 PM
 
on xlr8your mac this was posted:

"Dear Mike,
By Default Tiger os x does not enable quartz ("2D") Extreme in 32MB vram Macs which includes Mac Minis, eMacs and iBook G4s. To enable quartz (2D) extreme we follow the usual path to the usual suspect the configuration.plist by the path
/System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/ Frameworks/CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/Resources/Configuration.plist
then scroll down to this area...you may use BBedit the demo (Lite no longer available?-Mike) version to open the Configuration.plist file if you do not have the full version
<dict>
<key>Quartz2DExtremeEnabled</key>
<true/>
<key>Quartz2DExtremeMinimumVRAM</key>
<integer>64</integer>
<key>Quartz2DExtremeMinimumDRAM</key>
<integer>512</integer>
Change the line under

<key>Quartz2DExtremeMinimumVRAM</key>
(from 64) to
<integer>32</integer>
and as you can read you should have a minumum of 512MB Ram installed on your computer. You could reduce that line integer to a number lower than 512MB but i do not recommend that. Anyhow save there add your root password and then you have quartz extreme 2d enabled. I have checked this with Quartz Extreme check and the display IS enabled on a Mac Mini in Tiger OS X 10.4.
EDIT TO ADD:
Note: Although the reader above said he verified "Quartz Extreme" was enabled in Tiger, a developer wrote to say that the above edit will NOT enable Quartz 2D Extreme for a pre-9600 ATI graphics chip. (The Mac Mini and iBook G4 current models use an ATI Radeon 9200 Mobility for instance. Apple notes for Core graphics support requires a 9600 Radeon or better/Nvidia FX5200 AGP or better as hardware support for the ARB_fragment_program extension is required.)
So my question would be, is Quart Extreme 2D enabled on 64MB cards and up?
How do we check? I can't imagine the UI being any faster here (Dual 2.0 G5 with Radeon 9600 Pro)
( Last edited by zerostar; Apr 25, 2005 at 05:55 PM. )
     
CaptainHaddock
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Apr 25, 2005, 09:22 PM
 
By Default Tiger os x does not enable quartz ("2D") Extreme in 32MB vram Macs which includes Mac Minis, eMacs and iBook G4s.
I'd like to know, once someone has upgraded a G4 iMac to Tiger, if Quarts 2D Extreme is enabled by default.
     
Evinyatar
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Apr 26, 2005, 02:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by Don Pickett
There are some reports on the OS forum that enabling it makes Safari 2 very slow.
Yes, I have noticed this too. Any page with lots of animated gifs (like the forum post form here) slows down to a crawl with Q2DX on.
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bimmerphile
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May 7, 2005, 05:36 PM
 
I don't seem to have that .../A/Resources/Configuration.plist file. Any thoughts?
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danman
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May 7, 2005, 06:08 PM
 
Found this below and it has worked for me even after reboots:

sudo defaults write /Library/Preferences/com.apple.windowserver Quartz2DExtremeEnabled -boolean YES
     
besson3c
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May 8, 2005, 02:00 AM
 
What sorts of improvements do you notice with this enabled on machines with a fast enough video card?

I believe I have an ATI 9600 (I have an original 15" Aluminum Powerbook)
     
gorgonzola
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May 8, 2005, 02:13 AM
 
You can check whether it's supported by opening Quartz Debug and looking in the Tools menu.
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entrox
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May 8, 2005, 06:30 AM
 
I'm on a MDD 2x1GHz with 768MB RAM and a Radeon 9800. Q2DX was not enabled by default and enabling it absolutely kills OmniWeb performance. Looks like it's disabled for a reason.
     
RonnieoftheRose
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May 8, 2005, 07:12 AM
 
I only noticed an improvement in iMovie but even that could be coincidental. I don't think it's necassary considering how much regular QE has improved. I would like Apple to improve HD playback on G4s and hopefully Q2DX will do that in the future.
     
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May 8, 2005, 11:16 AM
 
I notice no difference with Q2DX enabled on my dual 1.25 MDD + 9800 Pro.
     
besson3c
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May 8, 2005, 11:25 AM
 
What kinds of things are supposed to be faster with it enabled?

What would be a good benchmark for us in discussing this?
     
SMacTech
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May 8, 2005, 11:26 AM
 
I too, have been unable to see any performance increase on a 12" 1.5ghz PB. If someone could point me to where the performance gains would be seen, I would love to do some testing.
     
Busemann
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May 8, 2005, 11:28 AM
 
Resizing is a lot faster with it turned on here. It slows down iPhoto and Core Image Funhouse, though, which is maybe one of the reasons they disabled it?
     
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May 8, 2005, 12:32 PM
 
When Q2DE is enabled, I get some graphical glitches when resizing the Quicktime Player window (the arc at the bottom doesn't get drawn correctly). Works fine when Q2DE is off.

Hopefully bugs will be fixed for 10.4.1.
     
discstickers
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May 9, 2005, 11:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by SMacTech
I too, have been unable to see any performance increase on a 12" 1.5ghz PB. If someone could point me to where the performance gains would be seen, I would love to do some testing.
My 2.0DP with a 6800 showed almost a 2x speedup in XBench drawing tests.
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tkmd
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May 10, 2005, 12:52 AM
 
I enabled it using the command line in the terminal given above. While basic gui things like resizing a window is still the same (as when it wasnt enabled) the one thing that has dramicically speed up was using the grab function in a pdf opened in preview. An oversized pdf that could be "pulled" to any location was laggy; with qe2d its near instantaneous. Hardly a lag. Impressive. Try it.
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May 10, 2005, 01:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by tkmd
Hardly a lag. Impressive. Try it.
Which graphics card do you have? For me with a 9600 on a G5 everything is much slower with Q2DX turned on. Most notably Safari, but also PDF drawing. Speed is down to about 50%.
     
tkmd
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May 10, 2005, 02:12 AM
 
I have the 9700 mobility. But I must confess I turning it off an it it was still fast I'm not sure if a reboot is needed after turing it off. I guess I'm not sure anymore....
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Catfish_Man
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May 10, 2005, 03:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by RonnieoftheRose
I only noticed an improvement in iMovie but even that could be coincidental. I don't think it's necassary considering how much regular QE has improved. I would like Apple to improve HD playback on G4s and hopefully Q2DX will do that in the future.
Video playback is one of the few things it *shouldn't* improve, since QT7 already uses OpenGL.
     
ShotgunEd
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May 10, 2005, 05:54 AM
 
Ok, I've been reading about this over at ARS.

Apparently there are problems with getting the UI to render exactly the same way when processed by the GPU as the CPU. Fonts are the main issue, and I believe the login screen appears differently with Q2DX enabled.

Plus some functions haven't been totally perfected and take *longer* to draw on the GPU than they do on the CPU, so it is off by default until they've got it 100% correct.

http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/...1#656005523731
     
tkmd
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May 10, 2005, 08:31 AM
 
I got a feeling that getting qe2d to work will take another 130 dollars and about 18 months of a wait. This wont be something fixed on an update.
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LightWaver-67
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May 10, 2005, 11:14 AM
 
Allow me to ask a seemingly stupid question:

Why would one care if the Fonts render "pixel identical" between the GPU & the CPU... aren't you only going to see one OR the other at any given time...? What is the argument for them NEEDING to be identical down to the pixel...?

Just curious...
     
Person Man
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May 10, 2005, 12:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by LightWaver-67
Allow me to ask a seemingly stupid question:

Why would one care if the Fonts render "pixel identical" between the GPU & the CPU... aren't you only going to see one OR the other at any given time...? What is the argument for them NEEDING to be identical down to the pixel...?

Just curious...
Because it also has ramifications for displaying ANY image. Someone posted a thread about Safari and Preview displaying certain JPEGs differently under Tiger vs. Panther. Not everyone is seeing that issue though (I'm not, for example).

I wonder if those people having those issues enabled Quartz 2D Extreme?
     
CatOne
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May 10, 2005, 09:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by tkmd
I got a feeling that getting qe2d to work will take another 130 dollars and about 18 months of a wait. This wont be something fixed on an update.
Why not?
     
ShotgunEd
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May 11, 2005, 05:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by LightWaver-67
Allow me to ask a seemingly stupid question:

Why would one care if the Fonts render "pixel identical" between the GPU & the CPU... aren't you only going to see one OR the other at any given time...? What is the argument for them NEEDING to be identical down to the pixel...?

Just curious...
If you've ever done any web design you'll know that *any* difference in display between browsers is hugely annoying, if you are designing with fonts and layout in mind, you want them to appear the way you designed them. I've done an awful lot of XHTML and CSS tinkering to get the same web page to display the same way on a Windows machine running IE as a Mac running Safari. Thats before you even consider 3rd party browsers.

If there are discrepancies between display of system level elements be they drawn by the CPU or the GPU then App designers are going to have major headaches as regards the appearance of their GUIs.
     
cgc
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Aug 17, 2005, 12:18 AM
 
Under 10.4 I could not enable Quartz 2D Extreme, but under 10.4.2 it is enabled by default.
     
nforcer
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Aug 17, 2005, 12:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by cgc
Under 10.4 I could not enable Quartz 2D Extreme, but under 10.4.2 it is enabled by default.
Not enabled by default for me in 10.4.2, and I do have a capable video card.
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oni
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Aug 17, 2005, 06:06 PM
 
seems to be enabled for me under 10.4.2, according to the plist file

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bowwowman
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Aug 17, 2005, 06:46 PM
 
using the terminal command, enabling it made all screen redraws & resizing faster, as well as QT movies smoother and image work in PS all speed up considerably.....

this is on a B&W G4/650/1GB/Radeon9200
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dpfenninger
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Oct 12, 2005, 11:45 AM
 
Haven't heard much about Quartz 2D Extreme as of late...anybody know if/when this will be permanently enabled? Any advantages/disadvantages to enabling it in the current 10.4.2 release?
     
JLL
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Oct 12, 2005, 03:42 PM
 
It won't be enabled in 10.4.3.
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