[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by freudling 

If a car maker stopped making a model, and offered that car for 80% off, which including the full warranty and and customer service support, backed by a legitimate company, would you say the person recommending it had no credibility? No, you would not.

If nobody could actually *buy* that car anymore for the 80%-off price, then, yes, you would say the person recommending it had no credibility.
touchpad | eBay

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by freudling 

The fact that you stated there wasn't anything differentiating it from the iPad shows you haven't used it, or are simply ignorant.

Actually, what I said was "IMO, it failed because it was too close to the iPad in every way, without offering any obvious advantages". You need to read more carefully.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

If nobody could actually *buy* that car anymore for the 80%-off price, then, yes, you would say the person recommending it had no credibility.
touchpad | eBay

Lol. All you do is twist and turn reality to help you troll. You've never actually used a TP before. You're just an internet guy who likes to argue. Implicit in any statement is IF. Just because somebody recommends a product doesn't mean it has to be easy to get. In other words, because a product maybe difficult to get, doesn't detract away from the merits of the product. The TP is a solid tablet, this coming from an owner od the device. If you can find one, it's worth a look.

You just lost all credibility.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Actually, what I said was "IMO, it failed because it was too close to the iPad in every way, without offering any obvious advantages". You need to read more carefully.

Wireless charging, Beats audio, multi-tasking OS scaled beautifully to the tablet form factor, much better front facing camera for Skype calls, synergy... all advantages that I take advantage of everyday.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by freudling 

You've never actually used a TP before.

Why do you constantly insist on claiming this?

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Why do you constantly insist on claiming this?

Because your knowledge of HP and the TP, what you've displayed here, demonstrates that you couldn't have used the device in any meaningful way. Especially from someone claiming to have used it for development reasons. You'd really know a lot more about it if you were serious and not trolling.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Because your knowledge of HP and the TP, what you've displayed here, demonstrates that you couldn't have used the device in any meaningful way. Especially from someone claiming to have used it for development reasons. You'd really know a lot more about it if you were serious and not trolling.

If you say so ... it's pretty clear that you know all.

[Lateralus]

You're wasting way too much energy, wisedjak.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

You're wasting way too much energy, wisedjak.

Indeed

[Spheric Harlot]

Kindle Fire vs iPad: How to decide | TUAW - The Unofficial Apple Weblog

[imitchellg5]

I bought my mom an iPad and myself a Fire

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Kindle Fire vs iPad: How to decide | TUAW - The Unofficial Apple Weblog

Then there's the iPad. The most expensive of this bunch, it does everything well but it does it with a shiny screen and a larger form factor. My knee jerk response when it comes to the iPad is this: if you don't have one and you don't know why you need one, just go and buy one. In a couple of weeks, you'll know why this is the best mobile device in your life ever. (You'll want to pick up an iPhone a few weeks after that. The iPad is a gateway drug.)

Some people feel this way, but I'm not one of them. I keep struggling to find a use for my iPad. I just keep thinking that at $519, I horrendously overpaid for a glorified email reader / web surfer (although I didn't really, because my workplace paid for nearly half of it).

OTOH, I think the iPhone is awesome.

[Shaddim]

Yes, you're one of the only people I've heard of who hasn't found a use for an iPad. Luckily, you're in the extreme minority.

If I were you, I'd just dump it on ebay. You'd pickup ~$400, a net profit since your work gave you $250 of the purchase price, and you'd make someone else happy.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Yes, you're one of the only people I've heard of who hasn't found a use for an iPad. Luckily, you're in the extreme minority.

Well, I do have a use. Like I said, I use it for email and surfing (and Angry Birds). It's just that at $519 it's really not worth it.

If I were you, I'd just dump it on ebay. You'd pickup ~$400, a net profit since your work gave you $250 of the purchase price, and you'd make someone else happy.

It wouldn't make work happy. However, at my out of pocket cost, it's a decent value for that basic use. At twice the price - full retail - not so much.

I'm not the only one of course. I have encountered others, including some reviewers, that feel the same way. IF we regularly use more advanced equipment, AND have an iPhone, the iPad is, as some say, a tweener. Fortunately for Apple, others don't fit into our same usage profile.

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Well, I do have a use. Like I said, I use it for email and surfing (and Angry Birds). It's just that at $519 it's really not worth it.


It wouldn't make work happy. However, at my out of pocket cost, it's a decent value for that basic use. At twice the price - full retail - not so much.

This is why I don't have one. Way too much money for the convenience and the shiny new toy factor. That and I don't have any money at all to buy one with.

[Eug]

I guess the other issue is that even as a surfing machine it leaves something to be desired in terms of speed. At $519 we're clearly beyond the netbook cost range, but unfortunately it performs like a slow netbook for some content. Certain pages with some types of embedded content is painfully slow.

It's great that Apple has made Safari so efficient on the iPad, so that other pages feel decently fast. However, no matter how much optimization Apple does, they just can't get around the limited performance that today's dual-core ARM offers. This will be quickly corrected over time though. Remember the original iPhone? THAT was slow. The original iPad was pretty irritating too. The current iPad was a huge improvement, even if I don't think it's fast enough yet.

[Big Mac]

I seriously question the popular rumors of a 7" version of the iPad because I think it would most likely cannibalize the existing line. Apple's going to have to cut the price of the iPad if the company wants to maintain its current market share level. If not, its commanding lead will be increasingly eroded by the cheaper competition.

[Spheric Harlot]

I don't think they'll have to cut prices by much. The only way competitors are going to seriously undercut them is by building total crap, or by taking a loss. The former is not a danger, and the latter is only sustainable for people like Amazon.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

I seriously question the popular rumors of a 7" version of the iPad because I think it would most likely cannibalize the existing line.

You can be damn sure Apple has already prototyped it. The bigger question as you suggest is the marketability. Cannibalization of sales from their existing product line is always a concern, but it's really the amount of cannibalization vs. new sales that is important.

Remember that your argument has been used for ages, but that didn't stop Apple from releasing a 12" PowerBook, a Mac mini, an 11" MacBook Air, or the iPod mini, shuffle, etc. These Apple products are all cheaper than the Apple products that preceded them.

[ort888]

I would be willing to bet that 5 years from now we'll have a full lineup of iOS devices... Adding a 4.5ish inch device and a 7" device.

iOS is Apples new bread n butter and they are going to milk every drop out of it. The same diversity we see in the Mac lineup will make its way down.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by ort888 

I would be willing to bet that 5 years from now we'll have a full lineup of iOS devices... Adding a 4.5ish inch device and a 7" device.

iOS is Apples new bread n butter and they are going to milk every drop out of it. The same diversity we see in the Mac lineup will make its way down.

So two screen sizes or three?

We already have two sizes.

4.5 inches is completely pointless—small enough to be no more useful than the current 3.5" devices, big enough to be a nuisance.
7", maybe, but I really doubt it: It's impractical for anything but pure media consumption, and that's not what Apple is about.

I think we'll see 3.5", a 10", and maybe a15" or 20" or so, once they figure out how to make this interface work for "desktop" work.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

7", maybe, but I really doubt it: It's impractical for anything but pure media consumption, and that's not what Apple is about.

? That's exactly how I use my iPad: Email & surfing, including media consumption through surfing.

Actually, that's how I use my iPhone too, but with Calendar, phone, and text messaging thrown in.

[Spheric Harlot]

Yes, and you're also the guy who keeps telling us that it wouldn't be worth buying for what you do with it.

iOS' future is "general" computing (excluding Apple TV).

Some people will buy them purely for media consumption, but Apple won't limit them to that.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Yes, and you're also the guy who keeps telling us that it wouldn't be worth buying for what you do with it.

Yes, at $519. At a lower price, I'm all for it. If it takes a smaller device to get a lower priced unit, then so be it.

Some people will buy them purely for media consumption, but Apple won't limit them to that.

You mean like an iPod touch? How is that not a consumption device? I don't see too many people use that as a productivity or general computing device, unless you count email and reading PDF files or whatever. Seriously, you're stretching.

iOS' future is "general" computing (excluding Apple TV).

The iPod touch isn't going to be a real-world general computing device any time soon. A 10" device might be one sooner rather than later, but "sooner" might mean 3 years from now, because right now it's extremely lacking as a general computing device.

As for a 7" device, it'd probably take even longer to find a place as a true general computing device as compared to a 10" device, but even the 10" iPad isn't even close to being there yet. Hell, it's even less of a general computing device than cheap netbooks are.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Well I take back all previous posts - after trying the Kobo Touch and various other eReaders this past weekend, and then comparing to the iPad 2, we're just going to wait until the new iPad 2s/3 comes out.

I figure there's a good chance we'll get an even better screen, not to mention other speed/storage/camera/etc improvements for the same price. Plus I should be able to use it as a home theatre remote of sorts. Combine that with the ability to be an eReader around the house, and I think it's probably the best bet rather than also shelling out ~$150 for a half-decent eInk reader.

[SSharon]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I keep struggling to find a use for my iPad. I just keep thinking that at $519, I horrendously overpaid for a glorified email reader / web surfer (although I didn't really, because my workplace paid for nearly half of it).

OTOH, I think the iPhone is awesome.

Originally Posted by Eug 

I'm not the only one of course. I have encountered others, including some reviewers, that feel the same way. IF we regularly use more advanced equipment, AND have an iPhone, the iPad is, as some say, a tweener. Fortunately for Apple, others don't fit into our same usage profile.

I'm in this camp exactly. My work bought me a 64gb iPad and I use it maybe once every other month. Between an iPhone and a MBP I just don't need the iPad for anything other than watching movies on the plane or when the power goes out.

[andi*pandi]

I was in best buy this weekend and thought I'd check out the options. The display kobe's were frozen, lots of empty spots with no display, yet they claimed they didn't have room to display a Kindle touch, and the staff seemed disinclined to fix things or open up more stock. I know people joke that bestbuy is amazon's showroom, but I expect showrooms to actually have working models, you know?

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Eug 

You mean like an iPod touch? How is that not a consumption device? I don't see too many people use that as a productivity or general computing device, unless you count email and reading PDF files or whatever. Seriously, you're stretching.

Hm. Good point mentioning the touch.
I've had difficulty placing the iPod touch ever since its introduction. I think it's turned out to be primarily a gaming platform and music player/remote.

Not the broad "general computing" thing so much, I guess, but gaming is something the other platforms pretty much completely fail at, too.

I think the iPod touch is the iPhone for your kids, and a sort of gateway drug. It certainly isn't Apple's focal point for iOS—it hasn't been updated in over a year (yeah, it comes in white now). I think they'll keep it in the running as just that gateway, but it's becoming significantly less relevant.

[Wiskedjak]

Kindle Fire is currently the best selling tablet at BestBuy.com. Likely won't last too long, but it looks there's significant consumer interest in a low cost 7" tablet for the moment.
The Kindle Fire Bests The iPad At BestBuy.com, Becomes The Retailer’s Best Selling Tablet Online | TechCrunch

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Kindle Fire is currently the best selling tablet at BestBuy.com. Likely won't last too long, but it looks there's significant consumer interest in a low cost 7" tablet for the moment.
The Kindle Fire Bests The iPad At BestBuy.com, Becomes The Retailer’s Best Selling Tablet Online | TechCrunch

What will replace it?

[Shaddim]

Can't wait to see the return numbers, I'll bet they're sky-high.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Hm. Good point mentioning the touch.
I've had difficulty placing the iPod touch ever since its introduction. I think it's turned out to be primarily a gaming platform and music player/remote.

Not the broad "general computing" thing so much, I guess, but gaming is something the other platforms pretty much completely fail at, too.

I think the iPod touch is the iPhone for your kids, and a sort of gateway drug. It certainly isn't Apple's focal point for iOS—it hasn't been updated in over a year (yeah, it comes in white now). I think they'll keep it in the running as just that gateway, but it's becoming significantly less relevant.

I had the first and third generation iPod touch and loved it. When I had the first gen, I didn't have a smartphone yet, but I had a Palm Pre when I got the third gen (I think, though I might have gotten the Pre just after). It was my main iPod because I only have about 12 Gb of music these days and made a great device for traveling and playing games and watching movies on planes. Now one of my main uses for my Fire is to play games on planes, stream music from Amazon while web browsing, etc. So in a sense, the Fire has replaced my iPod touch. The only downside is that it only has 8 Gb of internal storage versus the touch's 32 Gb, but it's not a huge issue for me.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Can't wait to see the return numbers, I'll bet they're sky-high.

I'm not so sure of that. I betcha a ton of them are being bought as gifts. If I got one as a gift, I'd keep it. Free is even better than $199.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

What will replace it?

The end of gift giving season, for one. I also suspect the iPad3 will reclaim the top spot when it gets released. However, that doesn't change the apparent demand for a tablet in the Fire's class.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I'm not so sure of that. I betcha a ton of them are being bought as gifts. If I got one as a gift, I'd keep it. Free is even better than $199.

and $200 in their pocket will seem better than a questionable tablet wannabe in their junk drawer.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

and $200 in their pocket will seem better than a questionable tablet wannabe in their junk drawer.

$200 cash, sure, but I don't know anyone who goes cashing in all their Xmas gifts for cash. That's pretty tacky.

That said, I've never quite understood the Xmas gift giving culture.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

and $200 in their pocket will seem better than a questionable tablet wannabe in their junk drawer.

I hate OWS, but you're kind of in the 1%. Most people don't get pissed off with their gifts and return them for cash or let it sit in a junk drawer.

[Eug]

RIM to miss targets, take PlayBook hit - The Globe and Mail

Research In Motion Ltd. (RIM-T18.810.432.34%) said on Friday it has taken a $485-million (U.S.) hit because of recent discounting designed to drive sales of its weak-selling PlayBook tablet computer, and now expects to miss its financial targets for the year.

n recent weeks, RIM has slashed the cost of most PlayBook tablets by about $300, bringing the price of its basic model down to only $200, from $500 previously. In a statement, the company said it has sold more than 150,000 PlayBooks into its retail channels and that the total number of tablet computers sold was “higher than this amount.”

The tablet, which runs RIM’s next generation operating system powered by the company’s acquisition of QNX last year, has failed to find traction in either the consumer market or among RIM’s core corporate customers, many of whom are testing Apple Inc.’s enormously successful iPad. After tax, the hit RIM took on the tablet discounting came to about $360-million.

[Spheric Harlot]

And this is the final nail in the coffin:

Drunk RIM employees disrupt Beijing-bound flight - thestar.com

[Eug]

Heh. I had read that before it was known who these guys were. I thought it could just a couple of drunk yahoos on vacation or something. Nope, it turns out they were RIM employees, and I suspect they were in Beijing for a deal.

[mduell]

I'd like to buy a 16GB Playbook for $100. Just to watch videos on.

[brassplayersrock²]

How many Kindle Fires are being returned to Amazon? - Apple 2.0 - Fortune Tech

[Eug]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

How many Kindle Fires are being returned to Amazon? - Apple 2.0 - Fortune Tech

Kind of a strange article, but that means 7.2% of Apple iPad 2s with a mature OS get a 1-star rating, and 13.3% of Kindle Fires with a 1.0 OS version OS get a 1-star rating.

By that measure I'd say Amazon has a winner on its hands.

[Stogieman]

Slapping a new skin on Android and changing the app store doesn't make it a 1.0 OS.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Stogieman 

Slapping a new skin on Android and changing the app store doesn't make it a 1.0 OS.

It does from my point of view, in terms of user experience. The "skin" is completely different from any other Android device in existence.

Either way, given that nearly half of Fire owners rate it 5 stars, and 78% rate it 3 or better, I'd say Amazon is off to great start, esp. since they're selling millions of them this quarter if iSuppli is to be believed.

P.S. These tech sites are getting pretty desperate these days. They know such info is not a reliable indicator of return rates but they're trying desperately to come up with some angle to it to be able to create an article. As far as I'm concerned, that's OK as blog fodder or as forum posts like ours, but really should not be considered good enough for a real article in something like CNNMoney.

That said, so much financial analysis is gobbledegook anyway, maybe this fits right in.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Stogieman 

Slapping a new skin on Android and changing the app store doesn't make it a 1.0 OS.

Amen. It's just Gingerbread with a skin and more locks. It's hardly a "1.0 OS", but some people around here are convinced that this thing amazing, despite dozens of pro reviews to the contrary. It's a cheapo no frills tablet designed to push Amazon merchandise, and they've just about bet the farm on it, given their ultra-slim profit margins. They'd better hope that they don't get flooded with post holiday returns, otherwise they're going to take a beating.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Amen. It's just Gingerbread with a skin and more locks. It's hardly a "1.0 OS", but some people around here are convinced that this thing amazing, despite dozens of pro reviews to the contrary.

I find it amusing you bring up the pro reviews now. When the iPad first came out there were a lot of pro reviews saying the iPad made little sense.

It's a cheapo no frills tablet designed to push Amazon merchandise

No sheet Sherlock. The part that Apple geeks seem to be having a really hard time wrapping their heads around is that there is in fact a market for lower functionality tablets... for a much, much lower cost.

[Spheric Harlot]

No, we're doing fine with that. It was just freudling.

[ghporter]

My son has had his Fire for several weeks now, and aside from the typical issues a new tablet owner has with buying every app that catches his eye, he's loving it. My brother in law bought an Asus tablet for the specific purpose of having his movies handy on SD cards for when he does his (extensive) business traveling-but my sister in law got an iPad as an early Christmas present, in part because my wife and I visited last weekend and sister in law was really fascinated by what all you could do with one...

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I find it amusing you bring up the pro reviews now. When the iPad first came out there were a lot of pro reviews saying the iPad made little sense.

I didn't like the iPad when it first came out, it was slow and shi**y too. Maybe the Fire 2 will be better, but it will need a bigger screen and faster GPU.

No sheet Sherlock. The part that Apple geeks seem to be having a really hard time wrapping their heads around is that there is in fact a market for lower functionality tablets... for a much, much lower cost.

Lower function doesn't have to mean crap, and this thing is crap. A 7" tablet is too small to be a general at-home media consumption device and too large to be a true portable solution.

ebook reader - ugh, LCD
magazine reader - too small; pinch, zoom, scroll, scroll, scroll
portable browser - relies on WiFi, too small to be a good couch surfer

But wait! It can play Angry Birds! Great, you just spent $200 for an Angry Birds machine, congrats.