[Lateralus]

Well, after several years of procrastinating and a few actual attempts, I finally got my driver license this morning. So, the time has come to go car shopping.

My bank wont approve me for a loan, because I have no credit history. So buying privately is out of the question unless I'm willing to settle for a sub-$2k hoopty, which I'm not. So we're on to option B; Financing a used car from a dealership.

I've been digging around online, looking at the inventories of a few dealerships in the Tulsa area. Of the few cars I've found in my price/size range, one has caught me eye; a 2000 Ford Focus 4-door automatic with 100k miles for $4,990. I'm thinking of heading over tomorrow morning to give 'er a look.

Opinions?

But picking out a car isn't what has me feeling lost, it's knowing what to expect and what not to accept when it comes time to buy.

I'd like to finance, obviously, over 36 months or so. I wouldn't mind putting down a down payment of around $1,000. Given that, what kind of interest rate sounds fair?

And beyond making sure I don't get screwed on my interest rate and such, my secondary worry is not knowing what to look for as far as the operating order of the car. I'm a novice with cars, knowing only enough to drive them and name off a few parts. And I don't have anybody to take with me who could look over my shoulder and examine the car for things I wouldn't see. So, what kind of things should I look and listen for to make sure I'm not getting a lemon?

Any other advice would be appreciated.

[Gator Lager]

first of all ALL CAR SALESMEN ARE LYING SUM BITCH MAGGOTS. they lie.
but I won't really tell you what I think of them. one of my friends is one and he tells me how he treats people. trust me I took notes. ok with that off my chest, do your research on this site
http://www.edmunds.com/ get the spec's for what you are looking for here before going to do battle with them maggots. print out the prices/spec's...etc and have it in hand. don't let them BS you. they make more money selling used cars. they burn people who trade them in. so don't play there games.

my friend told me when he is haggling with someone he'll say.. " well I have to talk to the sales-manager about this, then leaves the office and walks out into the repair shop drinks a coke, smokes a cigarette shoots the breeze with a mechaninc, then after a 5 minutes or so, goes back and tells the person he is haggling with, well the sales-manager said no, but he would be willing to do this....

remember THEY LIE. good luck

[Athens]

Go find a Honda Prelude, solid reliable fun cars

BTW that Ford Focus sounds pricy, I can get 2002's for 6000CDN and they are crap cars. My friends 2003 has already needed 1300 worth of repair work done on it, my mechanic talked me out of getting a Focus and he had 3 in his shop.

[powerbook867]

older Focus' had a LOT of reliability problems. Have you thought about applying for a loan on
http://www.lendingtree.com/? Walking into a dealership w/ the loan all ready approved is the easier way to go.

Also, if you want to keep it local to where you are, check out credit unions in the area. Many have awesome rates and may be more forgiving about credit just to get your business.

You may want to check out scion. They have a first time new car purchase program I think. So does GM...

+1 on the whole car dealers/sales managers are scum.

[The Godfather]

I hear those dealerships with the no-start-on-delinquency cars can do miracles for people with no credit.

[marden]

Are you SURE that GMAC or Ford Motor Credit or Chrysler Credit won't finance you? Call them and make sure.

[rozwado1]

How the hell do you NOT have a credit history? Aren't you in your 30s?

[Spliffdaddy]

stop.

avoid credit at all costs.

Words cannot describe the incredible feeling of freedom you get from being debt-free. The freedom seems at least twice good as the sense of freedom you get from having a car. And ten times as good as having a car you owe money for.

If you've managed, so far, to get by without a car - then keep doing so. Cars are a money pit. They depreciate faster than computers, for goodness sake. There isn't hardly a worse investment that you could make. Maintenance, insurance, and $50 to fill the gas tank every time you turn around.

Keep saving your money until you have enough to pay in cash for a used vehicle. Assuming you absolutely need one.

Get a bicycle. Even if it gets stolen every week of the year, you'll still be ahead of the game, financially.

I spent the better part of my life in debt to some entity or another. Don't be like me. Selling yourself into financial enslavement is lunacy.

[The Godfather]

^ So you are going to rent an apartment all your life?

[OldManMac]

Most car dealers don't do their own financing; they still go through a bank or lending institution of some kind. Once they've handed you the keys to the car, they get their money from a bank, so you're still going to have to get a loan, and if you don't have a credit history, it's going to be at a much higher percentage rate, as very few traditional banks will be willing to take a chance on you. You'll wind up with somebody like HSBC, or one of the other "sub-prime" lenders, who will charge you up to 14-15 percent, if not higher, for a used car loan. Don't do that! If you've managed to be car free this long, try doing it for a while longer, and pay cash when you're ready, or take a high rate loan, with the discipline to pay it off early, so you can at least build up a credit file.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

stop.

avoid credit at all costs.

Words cannot describe the incredible feeling of freedom you get from being debt-free. The freedom seems at least twice good as the sense of freedom you get from having a car. And ten times as good as having a car you owe money for.

Quoted for emphasis.

The only thing I will finance ever again will be a house.

Buy as much car as you can with cash. Cars are one of the worst things you can buy on credit. Computers have less depreciation than cars do.

[Railroader]

yoo hoo... we have a problem in the 'NN universe it seems.

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by rozwado1

How the hell do you NOT have a credit history? Aren't you in your 30s?

I just turned 21 last month.

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

...

Originally Posted by KarlG

...

Originally Posted by Railroader

...

Well, it's been a tumultuous 24 hours.

Woke up this morning and called the dealership that had that Focus, and it turns out it was sold two days ago anyways. So, nix that idea.

So then I started running through figures in my head it occurred to me; Why should I finance a $6,000+ used car over a shorter period of time with larger payments, when I can spend three or four thousand more to get a brand new car (Aveo) that I can pay off over a longer period of time and enjoy a full 5 year warranty backing during the entire time I'm paying it off?

So, I started calling a few dealerships and... nobody will approve me for anything brand new. Though I was approved for use vehicles by the two dealerships that I called. So, from work I decided to call around, see who had what in my price range, locking into the idear of stopping somewhere tomorrow and driving off in something or other just to end the charade.

But then I went on lunch break and had a run in with a coworker of mine who is an insurance agent for Farmers full-time during the day. I've been working with him over the past week, seeing how well he could do for me on an insurance rate. And we get to talking, turns out there's a few cars he's looking to unload personally. One of which in particular caught my eye, given what the dealer I had mentioned above was asking for a Focus.

He's got a 2000 Ford Focus wagon, automatic, CD player, great shape with 100k miles that he said he'd sell to me outright for around $2,500-3,000.

He was completely upfront with me on it. Said the car has never had any issues. It had been owned by a disabled person who used it to commute back and forth to Missouri to visit relatives, so pretty much all of the milage is highway. And the only repair work it has ever needed was from hail damage to the hood a few years back.

Said I'm welcome to take the car to a mechanic friend of mine for a full inspection.

And best of all, I can actually pay him outright. So, we're gonna chat a bit more about it this weekend.

[Athens]

Go used, here are the reasons

New cars have to be broken in, and during that time its when you find out if its a good car or a lemon. Let some one do the break-in, a couple year old car will be fine as long as the owner was nice to it.

New cars drop in value the second you drive it off the lot, if you want to sell it 2 days after you got it, your looking at 3-5G drop in value alone. With that in mind, you can save yourself lots of money getting a car that’s a couple years old, the value drop slows down after a couple years, example buy new for 14 000, its worth maybe 11 000 2 years later, Buy used 2 years old at 11 000, 2 more years later you could still get 10 000.

Another reason, you can get a CarFax buy back on a used car that will protect you for a year, and any used car you look at CarFax is TOTALLY WORTH IT.

The thousands you save from buying new to buying used will cover the expenses for many years of general maintenance that will keep the car running for a long time. New cars are always a bad idea unless you have the money to burn.

That’s my 2 cents. Personally I rather spend 16 000 on a 5 year old import over 16 000 on a new Domestic...

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Well, it's been a tumultuous 24 hours.

...

And best of all, I can actually pay him outright. So, we're gonna chat a bit more about it this weekend.

EXCELLENT! You will not regret it!

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Railroader

EXCELLENT! You will not regret it!

I 100% agree, credit is a very important thing, I screwed mine up and will be paying for it for a long time. On a side not you should look at getting a single credit card, and only use it once in a while and always pay off the balence. It will build up your credit. Rule of thumb, at any point you don't have 50.00 left at the end of the month as expendable cash, as in no bills to pay, then you are heading for trouble. Any point when you monthly expenses exceds your monthly income, say having a 200.00 balance on your credit card and only paying the min, what ever it is, your in finacial trouble. Stay away from all loans of any kind.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Athens

I 100% agree, credit is a very important thing, I screwed mine up and will be paying for it for a long time. On a side not you should look at getting a single credit card, and only use it once in a while and always pay off the balence. It will build up your credit. Rule of thumb, at any point you don't have 50.00 left at the end of the month as expendable cash, as in no bills to pay, then you are heading for trouble. Any point when you monthly expenses exceds your monthly income, say having a 200.00 balance on your credit card and only paying the min, what ever it is, your in finacial trouble. Stay away from all loans of any kind.

USING a credit card is a type of loan.

EDITED: to satisfy Athen's semantics agrument.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Railroader

A credit card is a loan.

No a credit card is access to a loan, if you dont use it your not being loaned any money.

[The Godfather]

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Said I'm welcome to take the car to a mechanic friend of mine for a full inspection.

And best of all, I can actually pay him outright. So, we're gonna chat a bit more about it this weekend.

Great price

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Athens

No a credit card is access to a loan, if you dont use it your not being loaned any money.

I am sorry I wasn't clear. I will edit my post to reflect my original intention.

p.s. You recommend that the OP use a credit card and then you say: Stay away from all loans of any kind. Kind of a conflicting message.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Railroader

I am sorry I wasn't clear. I will edit my post to reflect my original intention.

p.s. You recommend that the OP use a credit card and then you say: Stay away from all loans of any kind. Kind of a conflicting message.

Well you have to use it once, to establish a history, they you lock it up. Just having a credit on its own reflects no payment balance history.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Athens

Well you have to use it once, to establish a history, they you lock it up. Just having a credit on its own reflects no payment balance history.

What good does using it only once do your credit rating?!?!

You just can't admit when you are wrong can you. You are constantly giving conflicting advice.

Originally Posted by Athens

use it once in a while and always pay off the balence

Originally Posted by Athens

Stay away from all loans of any kind

MAKE UP YOUR MIND!!!

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Railroader

What good does using it only once do your credit rating?!?!

I creates a payment history, you only need one.

You just can't admit when you are wrong can you. You are constantly giving conflicting advice.

MAKE UP YOUR MIND!!!

Why are you trying to start more **** with me, are you that bored?

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally Posted by The Godfather

^ So you are going to rent an apartment all your life?

I built my house using my own money and my own labor. There's no mortgage on it.

PS, you don't need a credit rating unless you plan on going into debt.

[Volks]

All due respect you know to the other posters, but you really should avoid credit and credit ratings. Credit and credit ratings are for poor people who in the end always get screwed by banks.

These people who go out and purchase new cars costing 25 - 50K and even above that on financing every few years are CRAZY. Not only crazy, but dangerous to the environment. The idea of disposable cars that wear out in a few years is actually here, and it couldn't be more destructive. What good does increasing pollution standards do, when cars are now being built to wear out in 5 years? The environmental damage is more than it was when cars were built and lasted 20-40 years.

Anyway that 2000 Ford Focus is junk. The engine is junk. You'll have to eventually replace the engine at a cost of at least half of what you are going to purchase it for. And even after you put all that money into it, it'll still be a FORD FOCUS. That ugly tiny piece of $&it isn't going to get you the chicks, man..

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Volks

All due respect you know to the other posters, but you really should avoid credit and credit ratings. Credit and credit ratings are for poor people who in the end always get screwed by banks.

These people who go out and purchase new cars costing 25 - 50K and even above that on financing every few years are CRAZY. Not only crazy, but dangerous to the environment. The idea of disposable cars that wear out in a few years is actually here, and it couldn't be more destructive. What good does increasing pollution standards do, when cars are now being built to wear out in 5 years? The environmental damage is more than it was when cars were built and lasted 20-40 years.

Anyway that 2000 Ford Focus is junk. The engine is junk. You'll have to eventually replace the engine at a cost of at least half of what you are going to purchase it for. And even after you put all that money into it, it'll still be a FORD FOCUS. That ugly tiny piece of $&it isn't going to get you the chicks, man..

Please don't give advice about automobile quality when you have no idea what you're talking about. Today's cars are much more reliable than they were in the past. Quality control is much better, manufacturing technology is much more advanced, and people drive more miles today than they did even 20 years ago. The old days weren't that great; we just want to believe so. There's this thing called progress and it applies to cars as well as anything; we don't live in caves anymore.

[The Godfather]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

I built my house using my own money and my own labor. There's no mortgage on it.

PS, you don't need a credit rating unless you plan on going into debt.

Well. Good for you
This country is all built on loans.

[Volks]

Originally Posted by KarlG

Please don't give advice about automobile quality when you have no idea what you're talking about. Today's cars are much more reliable than they were in the past. Quality control is much better, manufacturing technology is much more advanced, and people drive more miles today than they did even 20 years ago. The old days weren't that great; we just want to believe so. There's this thing called progress and it applies to cars as well as anything; we don't live in caves anymore.

OMG, you're so ignorant. I've own a 40 year old car, that gets the same mpg as brand new cars, with no computer controlled anything, and it's never had a problem driving it a hundred thousand miles. And it costs much less to repair.

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about as your just another wasteful stereotypical moronic american that can't take care of anything, and needs new everything every 2 years.

[Volks]

Originally Posted by KarlG

Please don't give advice about automobile quality when you have no idea what you're talking about. Today's cars are much more reliable than they were in the past. Quality control is much better, manufacturing technology is much more advanced, and people drive more miles today than they did even 20 years ago. The old days weren't that great; we just want to believe so. There's this thing called progress and it applies to cars as well as anything; we don't live in caves anymore.

OMG, you're so ignorant. I own a 40 year old car that gets the same mpg as brand new cars, with no computer controlled anything, and it's never had a problem driving it a hundred thousand miles. And it costs much less to repair.

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about as your just another wasteful stereotypical moronic american that can't take care of anything, and needs new everything every 2 years.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Volks

OMG, you're so ignorant. I own a 40 year old car that gets the same mpg as brand new cars, with no computer controlled anything, and it's never had a problem driving it a hundred thousand miles. And it costs much less to repair.

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about as your just another wasteful stereotypical moronic american that can't take care of anything, and needs new everything every 2 years.

I've worked in the car repair industry, and follow the auto industry closely. Reliability has increased dramatically, and your anecdotal experience doesn't change those facts. Calling other people names doesn't change them either.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Volks

OMG, you're so ignorant. I own a 40 year old car that gets the same mpg as brand new cars, with no computer controlled anything, and it's never had a problem driving it a hundred thousand miles. And it costs much less to repair.

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about as your just another wasteful stereotypical moronic american that can't take care of anything, and needs new everything every 2 years.

I've worked in the car repair industry, and follow the auto industry closely. Reliability has increased dramatically, and your anecdotal experience doesn't change those facts. Calling other people names doesn't change them either.

----------

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/at_010116.htm

Durability is constantly improving. Our memories of older automobiles are coloured with time. In the fifties, it was not unusual to require major engine repairs before the car had been driven even 80,000 kilometres. Today, improved materials and manufacturing procedures have increased engine reliability. Many vehicles are driven over 200,000 kilometres without major engine problems. There are many examples of vehicles driven over 300,000 kilometres that have required only routine maintenance!

Tire life is another example of improved technology. Even during the 1970's tires would typically only last about 40,000 kilometres. Today, radial tire design has increased tire life so many tires are expected to last for 80,000 to 100,000 kilometres.

Tune-up intervals have increased due to electronics, while at the same time exhaust emissions have been reduced. Before electronic engine controls, tune-ups were required as often as every 16,000 kilometres. Today, most vehicles can go at least 50,000 kilometres before a tune up inspection is required, and some models have sparkplugs designed to last for 160,000 kilometres!

As far as the argument that cars are equipped with too many options and "toys" and are no longer a form of basic transportation, well, there are still vehicles sold by most manufacturers that are "basic" transportation. However, most buyers of these vehicles include several options at the time of purchase. Even in the earliest days of motoring, cars were considered a luxury device and options such as windshields, instruments, and spare tires were bought by the owners. Perhaps returning to "basic" transportation would mean switching to foot and bicycle travel as they do in many countries.

Are modern vehicles more reliable? I would argue they are. We drive further, faster, with better fuel economy and higher levels of safety than ever before. If you are unfortunate to be among the small percentage of car owners that do have a major breakdown, this is small consolation. But remember, manufacturer's warranties are designed to cover this type of problem and your next new vehicle will be designed to be easier to repair and even more reliable.

------------------

http://used-cars.autos.yahoo.com/usedcars/

Cars tend to be much more reliable than they were even 20 years ago. Nevertheless, buying any used vehicle entails some risk.

--------------------------

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...08/184052.html

Consumer Reports Finds Vehicles from Detroit's Big Three Are Now More Reliable than those from European Manufacturers

--------------------------

http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradent...s/13005352.htm

American cars more reliable

--------------------------

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0416/p01s02-usec.html

"....more and more consumers like Bhatti are coming to a conclusion that would have seemed heretical just a few years ago: that Detroit is, in fact, building cars that are equal or superior to imports from Europe and Japan."

--------------------------

http://www.choice.com.au/viewArticle...tid=100008&p=9

With styling, car manufacturers increasingly take their cues from the past. Car technology, however, has been steadily advancing over the decades, significantly improving the reliability of newer-generation cars.
Our latest car reliability survey results confirm you’re getting a much more reliable car now than in the late 1980s. We expected to see fewer breakdowns in new cars now, but found the improvements across the board quite remarkable over the past 13 years.

---------------------------

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/c...5/overview.htm

Reliability

One thing that has made used cars more appealing is their improved reliability. In a 20-year reliability trend compiled using 1980 to 2000 Consumer Reports annual subscriber surveys, we have found that the reliability of vehicles has vastly improved. The reported problems per hundred vehicles has declined to a fraction of what it was in 1980. Rust and exhaust-system problems, once common, are now no longer major problems.

---------------------------

I could easily find more, but the facts are clear. I don't use anecdotal evidence to bolster my argument, although I could, having owned 20 vehicles in forty years. Most of those were driven for many miles, and my repair frequencies are down, except for my current car, significantly.

[macroy]

Is there an echo in here?

[Volks]

Originally Posted by KarlG

I've worked in the car repair industry, and follow the auto industry closely. Reliability has increased dramatically, and your anecdotal experience doesn't change those facts. Calling other people names doesn't change them either.

My experience is far from anecdotal. If reliability has increased, it's only because computers now take care of cars rather than their lazy, incompetent, wasteful, over-fed owners.

[polendo]

Used car is fine at your age. Get a good reliable car, I would advice you to get a Honda or Toyota.

I would also advice you to get a bank account, save some money and then ask for a credit card. DO NOT spend more money than what you earn. Even if you do not like it, it is really important to start creating your credit history. The reason is simple.. in the real world in which ever new thing you are involved financially everything goes down to your credit history. New house, new car, college for kids, car for kid. This doesn't mean that should buy everything with credit.

Buy what you need, do not spend more than what you can earn. Be responsible and everything will fall into place.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Volks

My experience is far from anecdotal. If reliability has increased, it's only because computers now take care of cars rather than their lazy, incompetent, wasteful, over-fed owners.

That's an interesting way to admit it, but the facts are that the average age of a car on American roads is just over 8 years, and people are keeping them longer, precisely because they're better made. The only thing you seem to be interested in achieving here is that of name calling, which doesn't make your arguments very persuasive.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by macroy

Is there an echo in here?

Yes, there is, and it's happened since the switch to new forum software.

[Volks]

Originally Posted by KarlG

That's an interesting way to admit it, but the facts are that the average age of a car on American roads is just over 8 years, and people are keeping them longer, precisely because they're better made. The only thing you seem to be interested in achieving here is that of name calling, which doesn't make your arguments very persuasive.

Just throw out statistics without any sources, and keep attacking the person rather than admitting that cars today are creating incredible waste because manufacturers are purposely making them obsolete after only a few years. Yeah, you sure know how to argue! Have fun with yourself.

[RAILhead]

My Titan and my wife's G35 both drive a lot better because they're paid in full.

But, if you haven't been saving that much, start now and buy a piece of crap that a mechanic will say is "okay."

While driving it, save more money and earn a little on the money so that in a couple/few years you can get a better car.

Think of all the things you could do with that $300 to $500 per month you'd spend on a car note...

Maury

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Volks

Just throw out statistics without any sources, and keep attacking the person rather than admitting that cars today are creating incredible waste because manufacturers are purposely making them obsolete after only a few years. Yeah, you sure know how to argue! Have fun with yourself.

I posted links to statistics; you just don't want to read them. Forty years ago I made a good living as an auto mechanic, and at that time, it was common for cars to need valve jobs, head gasket replacements, radiator replacements, tie rod/ball joint replacements, exhaust system replacements, etc., well before 100,000 miles. My first car was a 1956 Ford, which I bought used in 1965. It had just over 50,000 miles on it, and the camshaft had a worn lobe, so it constantly missed. The tie rods needed replacement, it had already had the brakes replaced, and it had a fair amount of rust. I bought the car from a family friend, who had purchased it new, and had kept up the maintenance. Today it is quite common to run a car well over 100,000 miles, without any of those problems, and that's a fact. Consumer Reports does an annual owner's survey, and this year they got over 850,000 replies, so they have a very large, owner based, database, going back many years. I've participated in this survey in the past, and it is very thorough. CR states the same thing; cars have gotten much better!

My current car is eight years old, with 134,000 miles on it, and there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that it will see 200,000 miles without any major repair. My last car was 11 years old when I got bored with it, at 195,000 miles, and it had never had any major engine/transmission work, despite the fact that I drove it twice for over 50 miles with only one quart of oil in it; it even had the original clutch.

Here's some more statistics for you; just ignore and deny them, like you do for some reason. I'm just a moron, and an idiot, but I know what I'm talking about!

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/Research.html

In the US, the average car has a median lifetime of 17 years. (Source: Matt Creenson, Associated Press: "Is This the Beginning of the End?" )

-----------------------

http://www.okcareertech.org/expressi...ember/ayes.htm

Currently cars are built to last about 200,000 miles. Ten years ago, a car was lucky to make it to 100,000. Engines are built to last 200,000 miles now, but every other function has to also live that long,” Boyles said.

----------------------

http://www.alps.co.jp/e/technology/03/2003/dec/2.htm

However, it is desired that an automobile operate for more than 10 years. This requires an operating lifespan for a throttle position sensor of 1 million to 10 million operations. An operating lifespan of 10 million operations, for example, represents 2,700 operations per day for 10 years without malfunction. In an automobile, with human life on the line, such exacting specifications are needed. (This refers to the new throttle mechanisms on cars, which don't use throttle cables - they have to last a long time!

------------------------

http://www.valvoline.com/carcare/art...1v2&section=hm

According to R.L. Polk & Co., the longest-standing curator of automotive records in the United States, consumers are keeping their vehicles longer for the first time since the mid-1990s. The median car age recorded in 2002 was 8.4 years, "the highest median age since we began tracking the statistic in 1970," said Mike Gingell, vice president of Polk's aftermarket division.


Of course, you're still going to deny that, because you just know that manufacturing technologies, metallurgical knowledge, engineering knowledge, quality control, etc., have all gone backwards in the last forty years, yet we live longer, and progress on everything else is going forward.

For some reason, you apparently have a chip on your shoulder over this issue, and your way to support your viewpoint is to call people moronic, idiots, etc. You should seek help for your anger management issues, and you should learn a few things about the changes in the auto industry in the last few decades, as well. I'm done pissing in the wind with you; believe what you want.

[OldManMac]

Lateralus, here's a good place to start, when looking for a used car.

http://www.edmunds.com/used/index.ht...me.header..2.*

[DeathToWindows]

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Well, after several years of procrastinating and a few actual attempts, I finally got my driver license this morning. So, the time has come to go car shopping.

Ya, I didn't get licensed til I was 18.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

I built my house using my own money and my own labor. There's no mortgage on it.

PS, you don't need a credit rating unless you plan on going into debt.

My hotel requires a Credit Card for all visitors, most airlines require a credit card for advance booking, buying a home, a credit rating is usally needed and who knows that the future will require along the line of having a Good credit rating. I wouldn't you don't need a credit rating.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by KarlG

Please don't give advice about automobile quality when you have no idea what you're talking about. Today's cars are much more reliable than they were in the past. Quality control is much better, manufacturing technology is much more advanced, and people drive more miles today than they did even 20 years ago. The old days weren't that great; we just want to believe so. There's this thing called progress and it applies to cars as well as anything; we don't live in caves anymore.

And the Ford Focus is designed with a useful life span of 7 years. The dam things require 500.00 worth of work if it sits on the lot for over 6 months which is why new Ford Focus's get massive discounts after they have been sitting for a long time. I know this because my friend owns a Ford Dealership. He would never buy a Focus, he wouldn't accept one as a gift.

[Athens]

Double Post

[Ratm]

Originally Posted by Gator Lager

http://www.edmunds.com/

Another vote for Edmunds. This site alone save me thousands of dollars!

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally Posted by Athens

My hotel requires a Credit Card for all visitors, most airlines require a credit card for advance booking, buying a home, a credit rating is usally needed and who knows that the future will require along the line of having a Good credit rating. I wouldn't you don't need a credit rating.

Visa Debit.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Visa Debit.

Useless here, our Merchant machines dont accept Check Cards, and treat Visa Debit as a Visa Credit Card only. Besides isnt a Visa Debit a credit card/debit card anyways?

[OldManMac]

Speaking of Ford Escorts............

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/10/30/pope.car.ap/index.html

Holy car! 1975 Escort fetches $690,000

LAS VEGAS, Nevada (AP) -- A light blue 1975 Ford Escort GL once owned by Pope John Paul II sold for $690,000 Saturday to a Houston multimillionaire who said he plans to put it in a museum he wants to build in his hometown.

"To me, it's a piece of history," said John O'Quinn, 62, a Baptist who said he has a collection of about 600 vehicles. "What a great human being Pope John Paul was."

Built 30 years ago at a Ford plant in Cologne, Germany, the car sold Saturday in what auctioneer Dean Kruse said was original papal condition -- no hubcaps, no air conditioning, no radio, but with several nicks and dents.

"The car will never be driven," said O'Quinn, who said that at least temporarily it will be warehoused with his other cars. "But hopefully, in my life, I'll be able to go back and touch this car and feel the pope's spirit."

O'Quinn, a personal injury lawyer who made a fortune in a multibillion dollar Texas tobacco settlement, outbid least seven other would-be buyers.

"I'm so glad it will be preserved and be in a major city in the U.S." he said.

The seller, Jim Rich, 41, of Sugar Grove, Illinois, became emotional about giving up the car to pay bankruptcy debts to his father.

"I've been smothered by greed and courts," he said.

Rich bought the car for $102,000 at an auction in 1996, and said he promised the pope when he received the keys at the Vatican that he would display the vehicle proudly at his Chicago West restaurant and never part with it.

Standing with holes in his shoes and holding a buttonless blue blazer together at the front with his left hand, he pulled a food stamp card from his wallet and said he been using it for about nine months to buy groceries.

"The pope would think this is something I should do under extraordinary circumstances," he said.

Kruse previously said he thought the car might fetch as much as $3 million, but bidding was as labored as an uphill climb for the modest car's little 1.1 liter engine.

It began at $150,000, after Kruse failed repeatedly to get any of the 350 people at the Las Vegas Hilton auto auction to offer $1 million. It stalled several times while Kruse exhorted bidders to be generous.

The car came with what Kruse said were several papal possessions: carved wooden rosary beads, a box of wooden matches, a candy tin and a dashboard medallion bearing the likeness of St. Maria Goretti, patron of youth, young women, purity and victims of rape.

Baseball Hall of Famer Reggie Jackson, who has about 70 cars in his collection, didn't bid on the pope's car but watched with a smile as Kruse touted the blessings of a car that might have fetched $1,200 on a used car lot.

"He's selling the story," Jackson said.

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally Posted by Athens

Useless here, our Merchant machines dont accept Check Cards, and treat Visa Debit as a Visa Credit Card only. Besides isnt a Visa Debit a credit card/debit card anyways?

No, it's simply a way to pay cash out of your checking account using a widely accepted debit card. I've never had any problem using it - and I use it everywhere. If a merchant ever declines my debit card, then I'll do business elsewhere.

There's no justifiable excuse to use credit, and there's no compelling reason to be concerned with your 'credit score'. You can make it through life just fine without borrowing money. Most people have been brainwashed into believing it's OK to borrow money for homes, cars, and even education. It isn't.

They're selling debt, folks. And, oddly enough, there are people willing to buy it. I'm not one of them.

Apparently, there are people who feel ashamed of being in debt...the ones who keep trying to tell me I'm wrong in order to feel better about their situation. I'm not wrong. How can being debt-free be worse than being in debt? Hell, I don't care if my credit score is zero. If it was, it would be the best thing that could happen to me.