[ThinkInsane]

I was watching Penn & Teller's bullshit, and saw where a homeowners association had a man jailed because even after he resodded his entire yard, the grass wouldn't grow. That's pretty messed up. Then today I read this article about a Medal of Honor recipient being threatened with court action over his flagpole. WTF? Not only are this HOAs actions repellant to me, they violate Public Law 109-243, which states a home owners association or condominium association can not prevent a homeowner from flying the American flag in accordance with the flag code. These tyrannical asshats are getting to be a bit much. For the life of me, I can't figure out why anyone would by a house where some pretentious dick can have you jailed for not using the right kind of grass seed. I will never purchase property that requires membership in one of these ridiculous organizations.

As for Col. Barfoot, I took the liberty of contacting the HOA president, Glenn Wilson, and expressing my opinion on the topic. I was of course polite and courteous, although frankly, after reading Col. Barfoot's citation, I think he should be able to plant a flagpole in Mr. Wilson's ass if he sees fit.

Do any of you lot have to deal with these HOA thugs? I'm curious if those that do regret buying their homes after having to abide by this kind of nonsense.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane 

For the life of me, I can't figure out why anyone would by a house where some pretentious dick can have you jailed for not using the right kind of grass seed. I will never purchase property that requires membership in one of these ridiculous organizations.

Amen.
It's bad enough having to deal with local government without having another layer of clipboard nazis in the frame.

[The Final Dakar]

I'm more interested in the fact that you can actually go to jail for this. How is that possible?

[SpaceMonkey]

Seriously. Just try building a minaret.

[sek929]

My parents live in the historic district of our town, everything from a tool shed to the placement of our mailbox has been under scrutiny.

Recently we built and designed a wheelchair ramp/porch that is, for lack of a better word, very modern. It is for my mother who will eventually be in a wheelchair so there was no question about building it. Basically the historic committee told my dad he couldn't build the porch/ramp because it clashed with the historic look of the area, at which point my dad promptly told them to sod off and started building it. They also didn't agree with a tool shed being painted sky blue, but we did that too. These ****ing people are wastes of space.

People who are at the helm of such organizations are usually the biggest power-tripping dickwads you've ever met, and they should be dealt with as such.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

Seriously. Just try building a minaret.

Hehe.. isn't that just a big flagpole?

[Arty50]

What's even worse are the fees. There's a really nice apartment building in Reno that was finished just after the bust. The price of a unit there was insane for a while, but they eventually came down to a reasonable level. Well, at least it seems reasonable until they tell you what the HOA fees are. When you walk by the building on any given evening there are only maybe 3 lights on in the whole place. Just insane. You can rent a really nice place in town for a little more than the HOA fees. If you're going to piss that money away, you might as well do it for something really nice...and not have to worry about a mortgage on top of that.

That said, HOA fees in a big building that requires maintenance and covers your utilities makes sense. Having an HOA in a suburban neighborhood is just insane.

[Mrjinglesusa]

Agreed. I HATE our HOA. We can't grow grass in our backyard because it doesn't get enough sun. We have two 35 lb dogs and the backyard is FULLY enclosed by a 6' tall board on board fence (i.e., you can't see in from outside the yard). We want to install a high quality, expensive synthetic grass so our dogs can play in the backyard. Guess what? They won't let us because the policy states that no synthetic material may be used. They don't even give any consideration to the fact that it will have ZERO impact on anything because NO ONE will be able see it.

[nonhuman]

Don't sign a contract without reading it!

There, problem solved...

[olePigeon]

F*ck those guys. I had just moved back from Colorado and I had a new(ish) pickup that I parked in Guest Parking at our townhouse, the parking spot was directly in front of our backyard; made it really easy for unpacking. One of the neighbors called the HOA complaining that my pickup was parked in Guest Parking so her friends couldn't visit (there are at least 10 parking spots and they can park on the street.) I was told I needed to move it. So I moved my pickup to my parking spot, indicated by our address and the fact that it's covered. That same neighbor then called and said that my pickup was now parked in a covered spot blocking whomever owns that spot.

The asshats had my pickup towed out of MY spot.

So I called them up and none too politely asked them why the f*ck did they tow my pickup out of my own parking spot? All they could tell me was, "Oh, we didn't know. We just got a call from a neighbor saying you were blocking someone's spot."

On top of that, they refused to refund the towing & storage, which was $320. Being apart of the HOA means I assume responsibility for towing and fines even if it's their own dumbass fault.

[imitchellg5]

I got in trouble with my parents' HOA for parking my car too close to the street, called and said to move it or it would be towed. EVEN THOUGH IT WAS STILL IN THE DRIVEWAY.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Take this government nonsense into the PWL please. We've all heard both of your bullsh!t quite enough to need more of it in this thread.

This thread is all about government when it comes to enforcing private contracts and govt. support of building codes and developers etc.

All of the abovementioned asshats are just asking for people to live by contracts that they signed. If folks don't want to have flag restrictions, required color choices, etc. then they shouldn't sign up for it in the first place. There are tons of benefits to deed restrictions that we're forgetting here too. For example, we don't have to live next to abandoned cars in someone's yard, etc.

I agree that some of these guys are really Nazis, but they're products of the PRIVATE CONTRACT SYSTEM that gives them that power and the government support of that with building codes and such. Most of the time people lose horribly when they try to go up against this kind of thing.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

On top of that, they refused to refund the towing & storage, which was $320. Being apart of the HOA means I assume responsibility for towing and fines even if it's their own dumbass fault.

Ludicrous. You should have fought that. There's no way they can get away with that; you should have got the money from either the HOA or the neighbor.

greg

[smacintush]

Boo hoo.

And what exactly is the benefit of involving yourself with these assholes? The privilege living in a pre-fabricated neighborhood?

And people make fun of us country folk.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

Boo hoo.

And what exactly is the benefit of involving yourself with these assholes? The privilege living in a pre-fabricated neighborhood?

And people make fun of us country folk.

Well, more and more housing are being converted into condos in the city. Soon, it'll be difficult to avoid HOAs.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Well, more and more housing are being converted into condos in the city. Soon, it'll be difficult to avoid HOAs.

Not for me. I'll be sitting on my porch in my bibs playing the banjo.

Keep signing those contracts. Suckers.

[Arty50]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

Ludicrous. You should have fought that. There's no way they can get away with that; you should have got the money from either the HOA or the neighbor.

greg

Exactly. My next HOA check would be short the $320. If they went after me, I'd tell them to collect from the neighbor. I don't care what kind of contract you signed, having your personal property wrongfully towed can't possibly be justified.

Originally Posted by smacintush 

And what exactly is the benefit of involving yourself with these assholes? The privilege living in a pre-fabricated neighborhood?

QFT

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

Ludicrous. You should have fought that. There's no way they can get away with that; you should have got the money from either the HOA or the neighbor.

greg

Or just get their vehicles towed a couple times a month for a while until they pay you back.

[shifuimam]

I don't really have a big problem with certain HOAs in high-rise condo buildings. You have to deal with shared spaces a LOT more - like elevators, mail rooms, the gym and pool, parking garages, etc, and it's pretty necessary to require certain rules so that the common areas don't become shitholes.

I wouldn't however, buy a house in a neighborhood with some bullshit agreement. If I want to park a car in my driveway or on the street next to my house, I should be allowed to do so (unless a car on the street is blocking traffic from moving safely in both directions).

The government shouldn't be regulating it, though. It's your choice whether or not you want to move to a subdivision with a strict HOA. Don't like it? Find another house. I may be mistaken, but it seems like you should know what the HOA stipulates before buying a house...

[Uncle Skeleton]

I'm president of the board in my HOA. Mostly because no one else wanted to do it this year. So far, it's pretty much been just like posting on MacNN. People bring up petty tedious issues and other people poke holes in them. You guys should all get on your HOA boards. You would love it.

[Warhaven]

Originally Posted by sek929 

My parents live in the historic district of our town, everything from a tool shed to the placement of our mailbox has been under scrutiny.

Recently we built and designed a wheelchair ramp/porch that is, for lack of a better word, very modern. It is for my mother who will eventually be in a wheelchair so there was no question about building it. Basically the historic committee told my dad he couldn't build the porch/ramp because it clashed with the historic look of the area, at which point my dad promptly told them to sod off and started building it. They also didn't agree with a tool shed being painted sky blue, but we did that too. These ****ing people are wastes of space.

People who are at the helm of such organizations are usually the biggest power-tripping dickwads you've ever met, and they should be dealt with as such.

If they continue to pester you about the ramp, give the ADA (American Disabilities Act) department a call. While it is a government body, they're probably the most honest of the lot. They'll really bring the hammer down on the asshats that won't let you build a ramp. For example, there's this McDonalds that didn't have a wheelchair accessible ramp anywhere. A customer who had help to get up the curb complained to the management that they really needed a ramp of some sort -- nothing fancy. The management quite frankly told the customer to f*ck off (in just about the same words).

So, he rang up the ADA to tell them about the treatment he received and the ADA paid the McDonalds a visit. Not only did the franchise owner receive a very fat fine, they went into the bathrooms and found that they were not in compliance by TWO INCHES. So the owner also had to have their bathrooms rebuilt to be compliant with ADA standards. I believe the ADA also fined them for not having a seating area for persons with disabilities either.

[Uncle Skeleton]

The ADA mostly deals with places that are open to the public (including rentals), but often doesn't apply to private residences.
edit: but they would probably be able to point you in the right direction

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Warhaven 

If they continue to pester you about the ramp, give the ADA (American Disabilities Act) department a call. While it is a government body, they're probably the most honest of the lot. They'll really bring the hammer down on the asshats that won't let you build a ramp. For example, there's this McDonalds that didn't have a wheelchair accessible ramp anywhere. A customer who had help to get up the curb complained to the management that they really needed a ramp of some sort -- nothing fancy. The management quite frankly told the customer to f*ck off (in just about the same words).

So, he rang up the ADA to tell them about the treatment he received and the ADA paid the McDonalds a visit. Not only did the franchise owner receive a very fat fine, they went into the bathrooms and found that they were not in compliance by TWO INCHES. So the owner also had to have their bathrooms rebuilt to be compliant with ADA standards. I believe the ADA also fined them for not having a seating area for persons with disabilities either. shoot them.

Fixed.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Fixed.

What a badass.

[iMOTOR]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Fixed.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

What a badass.

Speaking of bad asses, shouldn't you be out tapping your wife or something?

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Speaking of bad asses, shouldn't you be out tapping your wife or something?

She has class, so I'm stuck working on motorcycles.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Speaking of bad asses, shouldn't you be out tapping your wife or something?

Originally Posted by Laminar 

She has class, so I'm stuck working on motorcycles.

Quoted for unintentional humor.

-t

[ThinkInsane]

If I wanted a thread full of political bickering, guess where I would have put the thread? Yeah, not here. Anymore of it and people start racking up infractions. Now quake in terror at the thought of that while you ponder your transgressions.

[ghporter]

Oh my! Look at this lovely topic. I think I'll post on it!

My wife and I have the answer to an HOA being so stupid. We are board members. Kinda hard to come up with stupid deed restriction or covenant violations out of thin air when there's someone with a head on their shoulders at every meeting. On the other hand, we're not the only ones with working brains on the board; we have a retired Army colonel (SF), a former engineering professor, a speech language pathologist and a finance manager on the board as well. None of this "no flagpole for you" idiocy is going to get anywhere with board.

Here's the thing: this involvement takes about an hour a week tops, plus another couple of hours once a month for board meetings (at a local barbecue place, I might add), and we're always in on the hows, whys and wherefores of what's going on in our neighborhood.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

On the other hand, we're not the only ones with working brains on the board; we have a retired Army colonel (SF), a former engineering professor, a speech language pathologist and a finance manager on the board as well. None of this "no flagpole for you" idiocy is going to get anywhere with board.

I think it makes perfect sense that a board is either full of intelligent, smart people, or full of sh!theads.

You would very rarely find a board consisting of equal parts of geniuses and morons. Chances are, the geniuses will leave and get involved in something more productive.

-t

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Oh my! Look at this lovely topic. I think I'll post on it!

My wife and I have the answer to an HOA being so stupid. We are board members. Kinda hard to come up with stupid deed restriction or covenant violations out of thin air when there's someone with a head on their shoulders at every meeting. On the other hand, we're not the only ones with working brains on the board; we have a retired Army colonel (SF), a former engineering professor, a speech language pathologist and a finance manager on the board as well. None of this "no flagpole for you" idiocy is going to get anywhere with board.

Here's the thing: this involvement takes about an hour a week tops, plus another couple of hours once a month for board meetings (at a local barbecue place, I might add), and we're always in on the hows, whys and wherefores of what's going on in our neighborhood.

When I am ready to move into a HOA area, I'll let you know. Your area may be the idiocy exception.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Quoted for unintentional humor.

-t

Oh, you don't think the dual meaning in my post was intentional?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Oh, you don't think the dual meaning in my post was intentional?

See, I was gonna bet you were gonna say that. Whatever.

-t

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

See, I was gonna bet you were gonna say that. Whatever.

-t

See, I was gonna bet you were gonna say that. Whatever.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Chances are, the geniuses will leave and get involved in something more productive.

Or stay to keep the idiots at bay. There is a decent purpose for HOAs, and one facet of that is to keep residents from hosing up their neighbors' home values.

[OldManMac]

I believe someone's already posted it, but, from personal experience, I'll reiterate; don't sign contracts you don't understand, and aren't sure of.

Thirty five years ago, my wife and I bought a house on a lake, in a private development, in northern lower Michigan. We bought another in the same development three years later, having easily sold our first place to my parents, for a cottage. When we wanted to move back to the metro Detroit area, five years later, we had a slight problem; we weren't allowed to put For Sale signs anywhere on our property, and that included in the windows of the house. Obviously people driving by who might be interested in a lake development home had no way of knowing that our place was for sale. Others in the development would occasionally put signs in their windows, whereupon the HOA, of which my wife was a member, would remind them to take them down. One couple was sued for refusing, and it cost them some amount in useless legal fees.

[BadKosh]

The radio commentator Mark Levin has stated he will fight for the 90 YR Old guy who wants to fly the flag. Levin is a big time constitutional lawyer and president of the Landmark Legal Foundation.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane 

As for Col. Barfoot, I took the liberty of contacting the HOA president, Glenn Wilson, and expressing my opinion on the topic. I was of course polite and courteous, although frankly, after reading Col. Barfoot's citation, I think he should be able to plant a flagpole in Mr. Wilson's ass if he sees fit.

Absolutely. I'd like to see some of the good folks down the road from Richmond, say around Newport News or Norfolk, come up and explain to the HOA what it means to be a veteran and the sacrifices involved in serving your country during a time of war. Maybe having a few of the folks from over at Camp Peary* pay the HOA an un-announced night-time visit might help them see the error of their ways.
*CIA training facility for folks in the clandestine service (i.e.: covert operatives).


And even if they have to make an "exception" to the HOA policy for this guy, I say fine. Make the exception for him and if anyone else in the HOA asks why they can't have an exception as well, the HOA's simple reply is "Did you fight in THREE wars for the US and earn a Medal of Honor in the process?" If the applicant can answer yes, they get an exception. If not, the applicant gets told to f*ck off. Problem solved.

[ThinkInsane]

Originally Posted by finboy 

If folks don't want to have flag restrictions...

As I said in the first post, flag restrictions are illegal. Contractual agreements do not supersede federal law. The HOA can put whatever they want in their contract, that doesn't mean they actually have grounds to enforce it.

Here's Col. Barfoot's citation, for those that are interested in what this man did to be awarded this country's highest on for valor:

"For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of life above and beyond the call of duty on 23 May 1944, near Carano, Italy. With his platoon heavily engaged during an assault against forces well entrenched on commanding ground, 2d Lt. Barfoot (then Tech. Sgt.) moved off alone upon the enemy left flank. He crawled to the proximity of 1 machinegun nest and made a direct hit on it with a hand grenade, killing 2 and wounding 3 Germans. He continued along the German defense line to another machinegun emplacement, and with his tommygun killed 2 and captured 3 soldiers. Members of another enemy machinegun crew then abandoned their position and gave themselves up to Sgt. Barfoot. Leaving the prisoners for his support squad to pick up, he proceeded to mop up positions in the immediate area, capturing more prisoners and bringing his total count to 17. Later that day, after he had reorganized his men and consolidated the newly captured ground, the enemy launched a fierce armored counterattack directly at his platoon positions. Securing a bazooka, Sgt. Barfoot took up an exposed position directly in front of 3 advancing Mark VI tanks. From a distance of 75 yards his first shot destroyed the track of the leading tank, effectively disabling it, while the other 2 changed direction toward the flank. As the crew of the disabled tank dismounted, Sgt. Barfoot killed 3 of them with his tommygun. He continued onward into enemy terrain and destroyed a recently abandoned German fieldpiece with a demolition charge placed in the breech. While returning to his platoon position, Sgt. Barfoot, though greatly fatigued by his Herculean efforts, assisted 2 of his seriously wounded men 1,700 yards to a position of safety. Sgt. Barfoot's extraordinary heroism, demonstration of magnificent valor, and aggressive determination in the face of pointblank fire are a perpetual inspiration to his fellow soldiers."

Personally, even though he's now 90 years old, I'd think twice about pissing in this guys cheerios!

[finboy]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane 

As I said in the first post, flag restrictions are illegal. Contractual agreements do not supersede federal law.

Yeah, that may be the problem. Sounds like a constitutional issue to me. After all, he entered into a private contract when he bought the property, and I'd argue that his obvious gallantry was made as much in defense of private property as anything else. There's no constitutional right to fly the flag on your house, it's just that the federal law hasn't been tested against the 5th amendment yet. For obvious, political reasons.

I'm with the "exception" idea -- there should be no question. And as for qualifiers, that's easy: anybody who's killed in combat can have a waiver. Done. The HOA folks here are being Nazis.

I agree with Gary -- get involved in your HOA if you can.

One of the developments here had a pine cone issue, where they cited you for having fallen cones on your yard. They checked after folks left for work and had letters for them before they got home from work. No kidding.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by finboy 

One of the developments here had a pine cone issue, where they cited you for having fallen cones on your yard. They checked after folks left for work and had letters for them before they got home from work. No kidding.

If I had to suffer from such a HOA, I'd take matters into my own hands. Those basterds would need to go.

-t

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane 

As I said in the first post, flag restrictions are illegal. Contractual agreements do not supersede federal law. The HOA can put whatever they want in their contract, that doesn't mean they actually have grounds to enforce it.

The flag is not the problem.

The problem is the 20ft flagpole.

[ThinkInsane]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

The flag is not the problem.

The problem is the 20ft flagpole.

The law as written says that a homeowners association can not keep you from displaying a flag in accordance with the flag code. Doing so on a flag pole is consistent with the guidelines of the code. The HOA might not like it, but they don't get to decide what is acceptable and what isn't in this regard.

[vcutag]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy 

Absolutely. I'd like to see some of the good folks down the road from Richmond, say around Newport News or Norfolk, come up and explain to the HOA what it means to be a veteran and the sacrifices involved in serving your country during a time of war. Maybe having a few of the folks from over at Camp Peary* pay the HOA an un-announced night-time visit might help them see the error of their ways.
*CIA training facility for folks in the clandestine service (i.e.: covert operatives).


And even if they have to make an "exception" to the HOA policy for this guy, I say fine. Make the exception for him and if anyone else in the HOA asks why they can't have an exception as well, the HOA's simple reply is "Did you fight in THREE wars for the US and earn a Medal of Honor in the process?" If the applicant can answer yes, they get an exception. If not, the applicant gets told to f*ck off. Problem solved.

The only suburban neighborhood I'm really familiar with is my grandfather's in Virginia Beach. He was career Navy, fought in 3 wars, and had a 20 foot flagpole in his front yard with a flood light on it every night. That flag flew rain or shine. If they'd tried this crap with him, he would have taken it down like they asked.

And put up a bigger one.

Then again, Henrico county is full of upper-middle-class prigs, so I can't say I'm surprised at this. I hope he gives it back to them between the eyes.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane 

The law as written says that a homeowners association can not keep you from displaying a flag in accordance with the flag code. Doing so on a flag pole is consistent with the guidelines of the code. The HOA might not like it, but they don't get to decide what is acceptable and what isn't in this regard.

Can I have 3 flag poles on my property?

I really don't see where a flag pole is protected by the law.

http://www.senate.gov/reference/reso...df/RL30243.pdf

United States Flag Code - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Can I have 3 flag poles on my property?

Can you do that kind of thing in the land of the free? Did you ask your mom for permission? What's she say?

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Can you do that kind of thing in the land of the free? Did you ask your mom for permission? What's she say?

Well, your mom said she enjoy having 3 poles at the same time.

[Doofy]

[ThinkInsane]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Can I have 3 flag poles on my property?

I really don't see where a flag pole is protected by the law.

http://www.senate.gov/reference/reso...df/RL30243.pdf

United States Flag Code - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Since the code very clearly states the requirements to properly hoist and lower the flag, as well as flying the flag at half-staff, I think we can deduce that a flagpole is a method of display acceptable under the flag code. He also raises and lowers the flag in accordance with the proper procedures. I think the HOA would have a tough row to hoe if they went with the "wiki says nothing about a pole" argument.